Chart showing the progression of the disease
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Chart showing the progression of the disease
of alcoholism...
Here is a copy of the Jellinek Chart of the progressive symptoms of alcoholism (and recovery). Hope it can be of help: http://www.southalabama.edu/coe/bset...ek%20Chart.htm
Here is a copy of the Jellinek Chart of the progressive symptoms of alcoholism (and recovery). Hope it can be of help: http://www.southalabama.edu/coe/bset...ek%20Chart.htm
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That's what I was looking for yesterday but couldn't remember what it was called. Here's an easier to read one:
http://www.drugfreeinfo.org/PDFs/jellinek2.pdf
http://www.drugfreeinfo.org/PDFs/jellinek2.pdf
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That is what my sponsor said. AA is a one of the only deadly diseases that is actually controlable.
If they dont choose to get recovery... it is insanity and then death.
How very sad for such good people with a bad disease...
Karen xo
If they dont choose to get recovery... it is insanity and then death.
How very sad for such good people with a bad disease...
Karen xo
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Originally Posted by Five
So the doc, Mr Jellinik is basically saying AA or death?
From my experience, knowing two alcoholics in my life, and my own struggle with an addiction way back when I was a young buck, I can see close similarities in the progression aspect. Many might agree as well but the point is, it's subjective, based on individual experiences AND, the purpose was to help inform folks of the progression aspect. Just for once, ignore and references to AA... OK?
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That chart is QUACK MEDICINE written by a twelve step pusher who handed out a QUESTIONAIRE to a load of AA members.
That is not fact, or science, its just QUACK medicine.
Pay no attention to it at all.
That is not fact, or science, its just QUACK medicine.
Pay no attention to it at all.
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I looked at the chart again... don't see anything about AA. I understand that Dr. jellinik is a hot button for you, no problem.
Can you share anything relating to the progression of the disease that agrees with your objective point of view?
Can you share anything relating to the progression of the disease that agrees with your objective point of view?
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Thanks Pick, thats a good piece of reference in my opinion. I have seen this before, they gave it out at the residential treatment center the ex went to.
I choose to look at this as good thing..maybe some people at the bottom of the chart are going to start choosing recovery soon.
I choose to look at this as good thing..maybe some people at the bottom of the chart are going to start choosing recovery soon.
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All it is is one mans opionion on the course of this problem. It is not fact, or science - (and what makes it insulting is that it has been dressed up that way by many AA members). Its just one dude guessing as he goes along. Him thinking, 'hmmm, I'll put this in next'.
So it does not 'show' much at all, other than this guys assumptions.
So it does not 'show' much at all, other than this guys assumptions.
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I have seen it trotted out so many times as a 'science', but most scientists would not even look at it. Its a nice little fairy story to boost AA (and to scare the absoloute living hell out of people).
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Originally Posted by ASpouse
That's cool Pick ... maybe this will give MA the information she needs. I didn't know such a thing existed.
Hi,Judy. That's what I was thinking ,too and why I posted it.
I hadn't looked at it for awhile but now that I do I can see the progression in AH since the last time I did.
Five: I'm looking into Dr. Jellinek's background;seems to me his angle was from the point of alcoholism as a disease and not a moral issue. I'm going to check into just to satisfy my own curiosity.
Recovery or death?....that's what I have heard that if you don't seek recovery you will die still addicted/alcoholic,unless you go insane first. You can take that how you want it,but it seems reasonable to me that if you are addicted to something you do something to interrupt the process or it is still a part of your life. In some addictions it may not physically kill you.but in many it ultimately will. This is one that will,IMO.
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It's just old - not quack.
Picking up old research is a common habit among huge numbers - of course it holds some truth, of course it needs some refining, of course it isn't the sum of what's known now 50 years later!!
I'm going to add though that it's a bloody good topic!! I just hope it doesn't turn into an anger filled one, it's a bit like swearing at some bloke with a walking frame for not hurrying across the crossing!!!
This is the "Jellinek Chart of Alcoholism & Recovery", named for Dr. E. M. Jellinek. Dr. Jellinek was one of the pioneers of the disease model of alcoholism during the 1940's and early 1950's.
This copy was originally distributed by the Alcoholism Council of Greater Los Angeles, and appears in the book "Ministering to Alcoholics" by John E. Keller, Augsburg Publishing House, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 1966
This copy was originally distributed by the Alcoholism Council of Greater Los Angeles, and appears in the book "Ministering to Alcoholics" by John E. Keller, Augsburg Publishing House, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 1966
I'm going to add though that it's a bloody good topic!! I just hope it doesn't turn into an anger filled one, it's a bit like swearing at some bloke with a walking frame for not hurrying across the crossing!!!
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