Need Help - Am Not Educated
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Need Help - Am Not Educated
Hi. I have read through much of this forum to try and get an idea as to what he is going through. But I still do not know that there is anything I can do. About three months ago I met this man, I like him very much. He is trying to get clean from Heroin after 30+ years. He is taking Methadone, but lowering his dose (I think by 5mg every week). He is also still using about once a week and sometimes more. I think this week he said three days he used. I try and do everything I can to make him more comfortable. I buy him food, bring him water and juice and milk. I ask him if there is anything I can do for him, but I think he is reluctant to ask for too much. Today he is very sick. I don't live terribly close to him, so it is hard to keep an eye on him. I am very worried. I wonder what I can do?, if anything. Should I stay at his house with him, shoud I totally leave him alone? Should I do what he asks? Please any advice from some people who know what it is like.
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You can do anything in ur heart, but my opions might seem harsh. I met my bf 3 yrs ago. I feel in love with him very quickly, he was my hero, I thought. Within two months of us going together, he finally told me about his drug habit, which consited of everything over the moon. I was and am very young so didnt think this was a big deal. I stay with him through withdrawls, and everything else. I even bought him some drugs so I didnt see him hurt. I had no idea about drugs. Finally after a couple of months of this, he began asking me to try it. I always said no, cuz I didnt want to go through what he was going through. He kept asking me for weeks, I know it was my choice to try it but he is 14 yrs older, and kept pestering me. I got full force into oxycotin and fetenal patches and everything else in between. He always told me he was glad cuz now I could feel what he felt. It was horrlble, I had/have children at the time, which I wasnt really being a good mom. I was there but not there. I loved him very much tho. I almost lost my house and my kids. He hated my kids so I almost gave them up to make him happy. I was stupid, very stupid. Now I have been on methadone for 4 months, 20mgs a day. I have been clean for only 50 days and am 8 months pregnant with his baby. He doesnt help me out at all, all he does his play his video games. He has been on methadone for a yr, 110mgs. I know I had a choice in everything I did but know I would be tons better right now, if I walked away when I first met him. Thats what I honestly think u should do but the choice should only be yours. Thank you for taking the time to listen to my story, and pm me if u would ever like to talk, k. I wish u luck and God Bless!
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Whoa. I guess the warning is a good thing. It will help me be aware of myself. Thanks. I really don't think I will walk away right now unless I thought that was the best thing for him. Fortunately I am already clean and sober 4 years now, so drugs are not a part of my life and I know how to say "NO". I have no obligations in my life except my job right now, so I have a good amount of time and energy to devote if needed. I really am just wondering about the sickness, not the addiction. My stepfather is also a heroin addict clean for many years and I lived with him while he was using and recovering so I know about the addiction. I don't know about the sickness becasue he was in an in house treatment. I just wonder, for somebody going through this sickness at home, what is my best course of action for helping.
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Join Date: May 2003
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Hey Cassy,
Ok, I'm trying to word this the best way I can.
I am a recovering opiate addict. Heroin is a very, very hard drug to kick. But not at all impossible. Now he is on the methadone program? Is that what you mean? Or do ou mean that he is just taking methadone on his own, and now also trying to detox from that?? I am a bit confused, maybe that's just me.
I feel terribly sorry for you. But you said you are clean, so you do know what you are walking into. It is just so difficult dealing with someone who is using. Even if they say they are trying to get clean. Its good if you see them really trying to make changes, like is he going to meetings? Or has he ever gone to one? Is he in a methadone prgram? If so, and he is still using, because I think that is what you said, then maybe he isn't quiet ready to be done suffering yet. Be very careful not to enable him. I believe it is good to help people who are trying hard to help them selves, but I have also read alot about people (codies) helping (enabling people who they really want to believe are trying to quit, ( mainly because the drug abuser tells them they are tryin to quit) but enabling with the bes of intentions. But sometimes I have read even when you buy them food, and stuff like that,, it leaves them extra money instead of having to buy some groceries, or pay a bill ( which the person that is really trying to help them did for them Example) they can then have extra money for more dope. So just be careful. It's a tough spot to be in.
You said you stepfather was in a house treatment, and he was clean for many years, maybe that is an excellent place that your friend should be? I don't know. I am not trying to make judgments here, not at all, I am really happy you found SR, it's a great place, tons of support, I am just showing you different sides.
You really can't help him if he isn't ready to help himself, and if he used 3 times on the meth program this week, then I would really wonder. You may be getting caught up in something that is just hard to get out of, you know the big messy circle of addiction?
Like I said, I am just showing you both sides of the coin.
I wish you lots of luck. I hope it works out the way that is best for you and for him. I hope he finds a good solid recovery program. I also hope you come back, and keep us posted, and let us know how he's doing.
You might also want to check out the naranon forum for support, after you get some answers here, or while your waiting, whatever.. Even though you are in recovery, now you're kind of "on the other side of the fence, in a sense"
Good luck
Love, Becky
Ok, I'm trying to word this the best way I can.
I am a recovering opiate addict. Heroin is a very, very hard drug to kick. But not at all impossible. Now he is on the methadone program? Is that what you mean? Or do ou mean that he is just taking methadone on his own, and now also trying to detox from that?? I am a bit confused, maybe that's just me.
I feel terribly sorry for you. But you said you are clean, so you do know what you are walking into. It is just so difficult dealing with someone who is using. Even if they say they are trying to get clean. Its good if you see them really trying to make changes, like is he going to meetings? Or has he ever gone to one? Is he in a methadone prgram? If so, and he is still using, because I think that is what you said, then maybe he isn't quiet ready to be done suffering yet. Be very careful not to enable him. I believe it is good to help people who are trying hard to help them selves, but I have also read alot about people (codies) helping (enabling people who they really want to believe are trying to quit, ( mainly because the drug abuser tells them they are tryin to quit) but enabling with the bes of intentions. But sometimes I have read even when you buy them food, and stuff like that,, it leaves them extra money instead of having to buy some groceries, or pay a bill ( which the person that is really trying to help them did for them Example) they can then have extra money for more dope. So just be careful. It's a tough spot to be in.
You said you stepfather was in a house treatment, and he was clean for many years, maybe that is an excellent place that your friend should be? I don't know. I am not trying to make judgments here, not at all, I am really happy you found SR, it's a great place, tons of support, I am just showing you different sides.
You really can't help him if he isn't ready to help himself, and if he used 3 times on the meth program this week, then I would really wonder. You may be getting caught up in something that is just hard to get out of, you know the big messy circle of addiction?
Like I said, I am just showing you both sides of the coin.
I wish you lots of luck. I hope it works out the way that is best for you and for him. I hope he finds a good solid recovery program. I also hope you come back, and keep us posted, and let us know how he's doing.
You might also want to check out the naranon forum for support, after you get some answers here, or while your waiting, whatever.. Even though you are in recovery, now you're kind of "on the other side of the fence, in a sense"
Good luck
Love, Becky
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Thanks. Very interesting perspectives. I do appreciate you giving me a multi-faceted view on the subject. It helps tremendously in figuring what I should and shouldn't do. I wish he would go to treatment, but there are some issues. And as I write that I realize it is "excuses". I only buy him the food and such as he lives in a place with no grocery stores. (he has plenty of money for drugs if he wants them). Oh man it is a fine line here between enabling and helping huh? I guess as I know - it is all about what the addict really wants.
He is not on the methadone program. He is getting it from somebody and taking it at home. He says he uses becasue he is tires of feeling sick all the time, and when he has to work for many hours. Does this sound like someone who is not really trying to quit? A month ago he was really committed, but he's seems to be faultering. Excuses, etc.
Life sure gets in the way of detoxing huh? I was in jail when I did mine, so.
Thanks again.
He is not on the methadone program. He is getting it from somebody and taking it at home. He says he uses becasue he is tires of feeling sick all the time, and when he has to work for many hours. Does this sound like someone who is not really trying to quit? A month ago he was really committed, but he's seems to be faultering. Excuses, etc.
Life sure gets in the way of detoxing huh? I was in jail when I did mine, so.
Thanks again.
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,191
Originally Posted by CassyK
Thanks. Very interesting perspectives. I do appreciate you giving me a multi-faceted view on the subject. It helps tremendously in figuring what I should and shouldn't do. I wish he would go to treatment, but there are some issues. And as I write that I realize it is "excuses". I only buy him the food and such as he lives in a place with no grocery stores. (he has plenty of money for drugs if he wants them). Oh man it is a fine line here between enabling and helping huh? I guess as I know - it is all about what the addict really wants.
He is not on the methadone program. He is getting it from somebody and taking it at home. He says he uses becasue he is tires of feeling sick all the time, and when he has to work for many hours. Does this sound like someone who is not really trying to quit? A month ago he was really committed, but he's seems to be faultering. Excuses, etc.
Life sure gets in the way of detoxing huh? I was in jail when I did mine, so.
Thanks again.
He is not on the methadone program. He is getting it from somebody and taking it at home. He says he uses becasue he is tires of feeling sick all the time, and when he has to work for many hours. Does this sound like someone who is not really trying to quit? A month ago he was really committed, but he's seems to be faultering. Excuses, etc.
Life sure gets in the way of detoxing huh? I was in jail when I did mine, so.
Thanks again.
He has a job and enough money, he has a supply of heroin, and a supply of methadone, well he doesn't sound like someone who's in to bad of shape yet. \I should not really be passing judgment here.. Be very careful. I just hate to see someone get used, when trying to help someone. Don't get caught up in the SICK circle of it. It's very easy to feel sorry for someone who's using, and sick alot. It leaves you sick often. But it's a matter of deciding when you've just had enough, and even then it's the hardest thing I've done.
Gosh, I really hope you hop over to the naranon board, and get some support. They know all about the BS we adict throw out there too,,,, they can support you also. We addicts do throw alot of BS out there for anyone willing to grab ahold of it.. Please remember that. There is an excellent sticky I think it would be great for you to read, I'll look for it, and then let you know where it is. It's by the owner of this site. It's so good.
I just hope you take care of YOU... You are not married to the man, you may care about him, adn want to help him, and that's very nice, but don't get caught up in it.... Don' let him use you. Let him search for the help he needs, don't do it for him, if you do it for him, then it may mean he really isn't ready, even if you want him to be
You are a very nice person...
I'll get back to you with that thread..
Love Becky
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OK. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. That totally answered my questions. I read MOST of the stickys over there. This addiction can be sooo much worse than I ever experienced. I guess my step-dad is a special case because we went through very little nonsense with him (relatively to what I see posted here at naranon forum). So my plan is to distance myself and make him take the initiatives to do the things that will make him healthy and free. I can see quite clearly through others experiences that I really cannot help if he is active. Yesterday he gave me his "kit" to throw away somewhere he couldn't find it. (although it seems silly because he'll just go get more if he wants to.) I will not loose faith completely, but I am going to be much more alert to the way he acts and I act around this. Boy did I walk onto a BIG pile of glass.
Oh and Thanks for the advice and Help AGAIN!!
Oh and Thanks for the advice and Help AGAIN!!
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,191
Yes, it's frightening getting involved with someone in active addiction. I think it really sounds strange coming from a bunch of addicts, but, I would turn and run. It's just such a difficult thing to deal with, the addict, the disease. Since she has only known him 3 months, from what I am hearing in what she says, it doesn't sounds TO ME like he is anywhere near ready yet, (thinking about it, maybe yes, maybe even really in the stange of really beginnning to want it, but ready for it??) .. Sounds like she could just be headed into a whole lot of pain herself, by sticking around, trying to help someone who just may not be ready to be helped yet.
it's just so hard, and I feel so bad for people families that must deal with us.. I wouldn't want to.. As dumb as that sounds. I feel very bad for the pain I caused through all the people that tried to help me when I was not even near ready to get help.
I hope she does the right thing for herself Tat's what matters. It's not worth the pain.
Now if he were to show some REAL BIG changes, some real attempts, that might be a different story. But that would be up to her. Like I said, I only hope for now, she turns and runs..
love, Becky
it's just so hard, and I feel so bad for people families that must deal with us.. I wouldn't want to.. As dumb as that sounds. I feel very bad for the pain I caused through all the people that tried to help me when I was not even near ready to get help.
I hope she does the right thing for herself
Tat's what matters. It's not worth the pain. Now if he were to show some REAL BIG changes, some real attempts, that might be a different story. But that would be up to her. Like I said, I only hope for now, she turns and runs..
love, Becky
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Well, I think that is three people now telling me to RUN. Have I taken the advice? No. Why? A few reasons. I am a helper normally. I tutor learning disabled, visit sick old people, etc. He is a good man and has been very honest with me - telling me he is going to lie to me about his addiction. Ironic. So far the relationship is platonic, so emotions will be kept at a controllable level. I think he is pushing me away of his own accord. He knows he is likely to hurt me. In fact he has advised me as you all have to NOT GET INVOLVED. His progress seems to be good in detoxing. But who knows what he doesn't tell me? He payed me back the money I used my credit cards to pay his bills with. Anyway, my plan of action is to be there if he needs me for anything positive - take him to the grocery store, watch a movie with him, help him clean his house (motivational purposes mostly). I will not become attached to him, and will be very careful with letting him take advantage of me, as I have read the naranon postings, and realize what he is likely to do in active addiction.
It is not difficult to tell the difference between this man trying and this man using. If I see a pattern of use, I will just sever relations. I really believe he is going to succeed, but am very aware that he may not.
It is not difficult to tell the difference between this man trying and this man using. If I see a pattern of use, I will just sever relations. I really believe he is going to succeed, but am very aware that he may not.
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wisconsin
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Cassy
Hey
I do not mean to upset you, nor push you away from this place.
I really would NEVER want to do that. I know you did not say that,
but I guess I fear if you hear things that you may not want to hear, youmay not come back. Makes life easier that way.
Have you ever heard of Co-Dependency?? Have you ever give a thought that maybe you are a codie?? ( a cute term I hear many other saying it, must be well recieved in the codie world) here are some examples from you're posts
I try and do everything I can to make him more comfortable. I buy him food, bring him water and juice and milk. I ask him if there is anything I can do for him,
Whoa. I guess the warning is a good thing. It will help me be aware of myself. Thanks. I really don't think I will walk away right now unless I thought that was the best thing for him.
I only buy him the food and such as he lives in a place with no grocery stores. (he has plenty of money for drugs if he wants them). Oh man it is a fine line here between enabling and helping huh? I guess as I know - it is all about what the addict really wants.
Boy did I walk onto a BIG pile of glass.
Well, I think that is three people now telling me to RUN. Have I taken the advice? No. Why? A few reasons. I am a helper normally.
I tutor learning disabled, visit sick old people, etc.
Anyway, my plan of action is to be there if he needs me for anything positive - take him to the grocery store, watch a movie with him, help him clean his house (motivational purposes mostly). I will not become attached to him, and will be very careful with letting him take advantage of me,
Ok, these are all sentenses from your posts. I also believe you are very confused about what you should do here, you seem to be moving between wanting to help and yet, knowing deep down whats best for him. I am making no judgements here at all, just pointing out a few facts here. I just really want you to see... So you realize.
I want to point other things out, but I can't right now, I don't have time, right now, if you haven't posted by the next time I come back, I will point them out as wel, I really want you to see a few things. Just to really keep your eyes wide open as you walk through all of this with him. Because I am not trying to tell you to leave his side, stop helping him, whatever, I just would like to show you different things from an outside view, It's so much easier to see things, from the outside-in., do you understand what I mean?
Ok, well I hope you have a great night/day..
Love, Becky
Hey
I do not mean to upset you, nor push you away from this place.
I really would NEVER want to do that. I know you did not say that,
but I guess I fear if you hear things that you may not want to hear, youmay not come back. Makes life easier that way.
Have you ever heard of Co-Dependency?? Have you ever give a thought that maybe you are a codie?? ( a cute term
I hear many other saying it, must be well recieved in the codie world) here are some examples from you're postsI try and do everything I can to make him more comfortable. I buy him food, bring him water and juice and milk. I ask him if there is anything I can do for him,
Whoa. I guess the warning is a good thing. It will help me be aware of myself. Thanks. I really don't think I will walk away right now unless I thought that was the best thing for him.
I only buy him the food and such as he lives in a place with no grocery stores. (he has plenty of money for drugs if he wants them). Oh man it is a fine line here between enabling and helping huh? I guess as I know - it is all about what the addict really wants.
Boy did I walk onto a BIG pile of glass.
Well, I think that is three people now telling me to RUN. Have I taken the advice? No. Why? A few reasons. I am a helper normally.
I tutor learning disabled, visit sick old people, etc.
Anyway, my plan of action is to be there if he needs me for anything positive - take him to the grocery store, watch a movie with him, help him clean his house (motivational purposes mostly). I will not become attached to him, and will be very careful with letting him take advantage of me,
Ok, these are all sentenses from your posts. I also believe you are very confused about what you should do here, you seem to be moving between wanting to help and yet, knowing deep down whats best for him. I am making no judgements here at all, just pointing out a few facts here. I just really want you to see... So you realize.
I want to point other things out, but I can't right now, I don't have time, right now, if you haven't posted by the next time I come back, I will point them out as wel, I really want you to see a few things. Just to really keep your eyes wide open as you walk through all of this with him. Because I am not trying to tell you to leave his side, stop helping him, whatever, I just would like to show you different things from an outside view, It's so much easier to see things, from the outside-in., do you understand what I mean?
Ok, well I hope you have a great night/day..
Love, Becky
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AngelGirl,
Do not worry about offending. You are right about other people being able to see things differently. Co-Dependency - of course I have heard about it. I have been in counseling myself for a couple of years. As with any psychological problem, there are soft and fuzzy definitions. What I do know is that if you put someone else FIRST, and do not take care of yourself, then it is unhealthy. I have not sacrificed much of my own comfort here. I still make sure to take care of my needs first. My life still fills 95% of my time and I give him 5%. I was willing to give more, but it seemed, from advice here, that that would not be a good idea. Unfortunatly (or fortunately) both of my parents are very much hippies, and their teachings are engrained. They have taught me it is very important to help others in this difficult life. (the problem with this situation is determining what is HELP and what is ENABLING) I have never stuck around abusive or manipulative relationships. And I have been in them. I just recently (in the last year) left my husband who felt compulsed to tell me I wasn't pretty, or hard working, etc constantly, and it took me only three months of that crap to RUN. (it's more difficult to leave when married)
But, angelgirl do not feel that I could not use your insight. I am open and willing to hear what you find unhealthy in my behavior. Maybe I am in DENIAL.
But news!! He has told me I have to leave him alone until he can "win this". He is afraid he will hurt me, and said he cannot bear to do that.
So the addict did the right thing.
CassyK
Do not worry about offending. You are right about other people being able to see things differently. Co-Dependency - of course I have heard about it. I have been in counseling myself for a couple of years. As with any psychological problem, there are soft and fuzzy definitions. What I do know is that if you put someone else FIRST, and do not take care of yourself, then it is unhealthy. I have not sacrificed much of my own comfort here. I still make sure to take care of my needs first. My life still fills 95% of my time and I give him 5%. I was willing to give more, but it seemed, from advice here, that that would not be a good idea. Unfortunatly (or fortunately) both of my parents are very much hippies, and their teachings are engrained. They have taught me it is very important to help others in this difficult life. (the problem with this situation is determining what is HELP and what is ENABLING) I have never stuck around abusive or manipulative relationships. And I have been in them. I just recently (in the last year) left my husband who felt compulsed to tell me I wasn't pretty, or hard working, etc constantly, and it took me only three months of that crap to RUN. (it's more difficult to leave when married)
But, angelgirl do not feel that I could not use your insight. I am open and willing to hear what you find unhealthy in my behavior. Maybe I am in DENIAL.
But news!! He has told me I have to leave him alone until he can "win this". He is afraid he will hurt me, and said he cannot bear to do that.
So the addict did the right thing.
CassyK
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wisconsin
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Hey Cassy
How's it going?
Just wondering how you're doing, and if you're/ or should I say he's sticking to
what he said. Are you backing away? Has he pulled you back in? Or have you gone back, or never left? Whats going on LOL...
I'm happy that you took what i had to say so well. I just really wanted to say those things to you.. I wanted you to see from the outside.
I also want you to see how manipulative an addict can be. We can say things like,
Don't come around I dont want to hurt you, don't buy my groceries, I can buy my own, don't , don't, don't.... Yet, showing a diferent "side" a side that's saying, come here, I really do need you to help me.. Do, Do, Do,,, don't leave....
Do I make sense here, do you understand? we do that, I did. I'm sure others here would admit the same and say they have seen that behaviour in an addict. He maybe elling you to stay away, but yet he is not really telling you that, and he may know that you will still come around. I am taking a shot in the dark here, BECAUSE I don't know you, I only know how alot of addicts are including myself. But here's a question and something to think about, do you think, if he really though you'd NOT come around if he said dont come around, do you think he would still have said it?
I'm afraid I know youre answer, but I feel no matter what, I have given you things to think about. I hope you do. No matter what, Don't let him hurt you, and Don't let him take you down with him, it's a special trait we addicts hold, taking people down with us, although not a very attractive trait.
I wish you the best with this. I hope you continue here on SR. It will help you learn, if you let it.. We all learn from one another here..
Hang in there and take care of you
Love, Becky
How's it going?
Just wondering how you're doing, and if you're/ or should I say he's sticking to
what he said. Are you backing away? Has he pulled you back in? Or have you gone back, or never left? Whats going on LOL...
I'm happy that you took what i had to say so well. I just really wanted to say those things to you.. I wanted you to see from the outside.
I also want you to see how manipulative an addict can be. We can say things like,
Don't come around I dont want to hurt you, don't buy my groceries, I can buy my own, don't , don't, don't.... Yet, showing a diferent "side" a side that's saying, come here, I really do need you to help me.. Do, Do, Do,,, don't leave....
Do I make sense here, do you understand? we do that, I did. I'm sure others here would admit the same and say they have seen that behaviour in an addict. He maybe elling you to stay away, but yet he is not really telling you that, and he may know that you will still come around. I am taking a shot in the dark here, BECAUSE I don't know you, I only know how alot of addicts are including myself. But here's a question and something to think about, do you think, if he really though you'd NOT come around if he said dont come around, do you think he would still have said it?
I'm afraid I know youre answer, but I feel no matter what, I have given you things to think about. I hope you do. No matter what, Don't let him hurt you, and Don't let him take you down with him, it's a special trait we addicts hold, taking people down with us, although not a very attractive trait.
I wish you the best with this. I hope you continue here on SR. It will help you learn, if you let it..
We all learn from one another here.. Hang in there and take care of you
Love, Becky
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