And so it begins ...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 70
And so it begins ...
I've been lurking and learning over the past few weeks. I'm posting now so I can have a place to let it out.
My husband of 20 years is an alcoholic and I've had enough of it. I don't think he thinks he needs help; or, he thinks he can do it alone. Years ago I stopped counting what he drank ... it didn't do any good. Recently - after some therapy for me - I decided to count what he could consume in one night. He drank 17 beers. He drank 17 the next night too. That's a lot - and he is driving our kids around sometimes too. (Not those nights ... but who knows when/if he is really drinking if he can consume that much.)
He's sensed my change in attitude and I've said some pretty pointed things about his drinking. And, I've been preventing him driving the kids as much as possible. Now he's 'trying'. So, he skipped two days drinking last week. We went to a friend's house/party last night and he 'hid' his drinking from me by not bringing any beer ... but drinking the alcoholic punch that was there. (Not when I was around so I guess I wasn't supposed to know.)
He just made a big scene asking me 'why I don't want him to drive the kids.' When I told him its because of how much he's drinking, he said "I haven't had anything to drink in a few days - and didn't even drink last night at the party." When I told him I know that's not true ... I saw him holding an alcoholic drink ... he said it was only one and I didn't drink for at least a few days last week. When I realized this conversation was going nowhere - manipulation anyone? - I simply started talking about something else and he stormed off in a huff.
Sorry - two days is nothing, especially when you lie to my face about drinking in the same sentence. And, when lying doesn't work, act like I'm the one with the problem.
Okay ... got that out. WHEW.
My husband of 20 years is an alcoholic and I've had enough of it. I don't think he thinks he needs help; or, he thinks he can do it alone. Years ago I stopped counting what he drank ... it didn't do any good. Recently - after some therapy for me - I decided to count what he could consume in one night. He drank 17 beers. He drank 17 the next night too. That's a lot - and he is driving our kids around sometimes too. (Not those nights ... but who knows when/if he is really drinking if he can consume that much.)
He's sensed my change in attitude and I've said some pretty pointed things about his drinking. And, I've been preventing him driving the kids as much as possible. Now he's 'trying'. So, he skipped two days drinking last week. We went to a friend's house/party last night and he 'hid' his drinking from me by not bringing any beer ... but drinking the alcoholic punch that was there. (Not when I was around so I guess I wasn't supposed to know.)
He just made a big scene asking me 'why I don't want him to drive the kids.' When I told him its because of how much he's drinking, he said "I haven't had anything to drink in a few days - and didn't even drink last night at the party." When I told him I know that's not true ... I saw him holding an alcoholic drink ... he said it was only one and I didn't drink for at least a few days last week. When I realized this conversation was going nowhere - manipulation anyone? - I simply started talking about something else and he stormed off in a huff.
Sorry - two days is nothing, especially when you lie to my face about drinking in the same sentence. And, when lying doesn't work, act like I'm the one with the problem.
Okay ... got that out. WHEW.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Hi Wheelsup, welcome to the forum. Really sorry that you needed to find it. I was one that stayed in a relationship like that for 25 years. I was to embarrassed to talk about things for a long time, but once I did, it opened up a whole new world.
((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy
((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 415
Hi Wheelsup
Boy do I know that feeling of hearing the lies, calling them out on it, then all of a sudden the direction turns and I am the problem. If I was watching the conversation on tv it would be almost comical, but it isn’t comical when you are living it day after day.
Glad you posted and got it out.
Take care of you and the children...
Hugs to you!
Boy do I know that feeling of hearing the lies, calling them out on it, then all of a sudden the direction turns and I am the problem. If I was watching the conversation on tv it would be almost comical, but it isn’t comical when you are living it day after day.
Glad you posted and got it out.
Take care of you and the children...
Hugs to you!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Wheelsup......I am giving you the following link to an article from our library of rticles that I think you could use, right now. It is a pretty good yardstick to measure how ready a person is for sobriety....
If he is drinking 17beers per night, he is likely unable to stop, cold turkey, by himself, without uncomfortable and possibly dangerous withdrawal symptoms.
He would need to be detoxed under medical supervision....then, a sobriety program, after that......
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-reposted.html (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of ****, reposted)
If he is drinking 17beers per night, he is likely unable to stop, cold turkey, by himself, without uncomfortable and possibly dangerous withdrawal symptoms.
He would need to be detoxed under medical supervision....then, a sobriety program, after that......
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-reposted.html (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of ****, reposted)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 70
That was a very helpful article. He is very much full of it as I've heard every single one of those excuses - so much so that I won't even talk to him about any of it anymore. Its a waste of my time and emotional energy.
I think my husband needs some serious help, but he doesn't. He doesn't appear to suffer from any symptoms when he stops drinking? Although I don't think he really stopped since I'm pretty sure he had more than 'one drink' the other night. The last time I think he didn't drink for a week was about six years ago when I uncovered two affairs and we understandably had massive relationship issues going on. So I guess I don't really know if he will suffer significant symptoms; I also don't expect the 'no drinking' theme to last.
I have pretty much decided to separate from him (hence the title of this thread). After the two affairs and two job losses in the past six years - and now bringing myself to realize the extent of his alcoholism - I have simply had enough.
I'm going to be writing on here more to just keep myself sane. I've learned that he is a master manipulator and gaslighter - and I am going to have to work very hard not to get sucked back into thinking 'it is all okay' or 'it isn't that bad' or 'gee, we have this great life.' We don't have a great life and it is NOT okay. And, even more so, I am definitely not okay - and the kids are NOT doing okay either.
Time to change it. Change like this, though, just sucks while you're going through it.
I think my husband needs some serious help, but he doesn't. He doesn't appear to suffer from any symptoms when he stops drinking? Although I don't think he really stopped since I'm pretty sure he had more than 'one drink' the other night. The last time I think he didn't drink for a week was about six years ago when I uncovered two affairs and we understandably had massive relationship issues going on. So I guess I don't really know if he will suffer significant symptoms; I also don't expect the 'no drinking' theme to last.
I have pretty much decided to separate from him (hence the title of this thread). After the two affairs and two job losses in the past six years - and now bringing myself to realize the extent of his alcoholism - I have simply had enough.
I'm going to be writing on here more to just keep myself sane. I've learned that he is a master manipulator and gaslighter - and I am going to have to work very hard not to get sucked back into thinking 'it is all okay' or 'it isn't that bad' or 'gee, we have this great life.' We don't have a great life and it is NOT okay. And, even more so, I am definitely not okay - and the kids are NOT doing okay either.
Time to change it. Change like this, though, just sucks while you're going through it.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi wheelsup, I never had withdrawals when I stopped drinking apart from a strong urge to start again. Everyone's different.
You can just about bet the house he had more than one drink of that punch, but he still felt the need to lie. If he can't put together some serious sober time then he's alcohol dependent, or whatever you want to call it.
You can just about bet the house he had more than one drink of that punch, but he still felt the need to lie. If he can't put together some serious sober time then he's alcohol dependent, or whatever you want to call it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,434
Growing up in an alcoholic home is very damaging to kids--I was one.
I had constant anxiety from the tension and unpredictablity of my alcoholic mother
The "walking on eggshells" and caregiving when she'd pass out.
I also saw alcohol used as the way to deal with pain and have fun.
Guess who also became an alcoholic when she grew up?
It was my choice, but it was what I saw modeled by my mother.
It's also progressive. He may still seem to be functional now, but that's
just a stage. It will continue to get worse.
You sound fed up and then some. Use the anger to get that terminal
velocity to get your wheels up (great name!)
Have you seen a lawyer yet to find out your rights / what the steps are in your state?
He'll try to draw you back in every way possible--be prepared
I had constant anxiety from the tension and unpredictablity of my alcoholic mother
The "walking on eggshells" and caregiving when she'd pass out.
I also saw alcohol used as the way to deal with pain and have fun.
Guess who also became an alcoholic when she grew up?
It was my choice, but it was what I saw modeled by my mother.
It's also progressive. He may still seem to be functional now, but that's
just a stage. It will continue to get worse.
You sound fed up and then some. Use the anger to get that terminal
velocity to get your wheels up (great name!)
Have you seen a lawyer yet to find out your rights / what the steps are in your state?
He'll try to draw you back in every way possible--be prepared
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Wheelsup....here is another link that you might find informative, at this time.
It is not to replace a lawyer, but it is very educational in nature. It can help you to organize your thoughts and know what questions to ask a lawyer.
It covers most areas concerned with divorce.
It is arranged by state.....
www.womansdivorce.com
It is not to replace a lawyer, but it is very educational in nature. It can help you to organize your thoughts and know what questions to ask a lawyer.
It covers most areas concerned with divorce.
It is arranged by state.....
www.womansdivorce.com
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 70
My husband has definitely gotten the message that I have had enough (although he hasn't asked me directly about it). Anyhow, I have completely shut him out and distanced myself from him - something I have never done before. I'm about two months into this behavior.
So, he's now trying to change his behavior. He didn't drink again today (I don't think, although I am suspicious). It is making me doubt myself, meaning is it 'ok' for me to feel this way? Should I really be doing this?
The rational part of me is like ... 'NOOOOOOO." But, sigh. Its hard.
Yes, I have lawyer.
So, he's now trying to change his behavior. He didn't drink again today (I don't think, although I am suspicious). It is making me doubt myself, meaning is it 'ok' for me to feel this way? Should I really be doing this?
The rational part of me is like ... 'NOOOOOOO." But, sigh. Its hard.
Yes, I have lawyer.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
I was married and living with to an alcoholic for 20 years too (and we were a couple for five years before we got married). I have no regrets at all about my decision to leave. His behavior was becoming more and more erratic and the lies were increasing.
I am sorry to say that he got worse after I left. I experienced a sort of "survivor's guilt" - I walked out of that marriage with my mental health intact, more or less, but once I was gone, he started coming apart. So if you're prone to feeling extreme responsibility, watch out for that - "he got worse because I left, I feel guilty for leaving".
Good show on not letting him drive the kids. That not only protects them, it means you aren't playing along with his denial of his problem.
I too appreciate your username - at first I thought of a car that had flipped over, then I realized it was actually an airplane about to take flight. Great image to keep in your mind in the challenging weeks and months ahead!
I am sorry to say that he got worse after I left. I experienced a sort of "survivor's guilt" - I walked out of that marriage with my mental health intact, more or less, but once I was gone, he started coming apart. So if you're prone to feeling extreme responsibility, watch out for that - "he got worse because I left, I feel guilty for leaving".
Good show on not letting him drive the kids. That not only protects them, it means you aren't playing along with his denial of his problem.
I too appreciate your username - at first I thought of a car that had flipped over, then I realized it was actually an airplane about to take flight. Great image to keep in your mind in the challenging weeks and months ahead!
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Welcome and glad you reached out. Sobriety is about growing up, sobering up and working a program. By white knuckling a day or two of not drinking is nothing. All that makes him is a dry drunk, for 48 hours.
What responsibility do you take in this dysfunctional relationship. The codependent spouse. Education is your friend. You need to find out that this disease is progressive, it will get worse. I wasted 34 year of my life with my addict. Always hoping that by him not drinking , that my life would be so much better. Our addicts are very sick people but we are the crazy spouses living every day in this mess.
Reach out to some alanon meetings or open aa meetings. Keep reading the stickies and maybe seek out a therapist. This is all about self care for you. He is an adult and can take care of himself. He doesn't have a problem with his drinking, you do, so its not his problem to fix. It is yours. Find out how you can fix your problem. Keep posting, asking questions and we can walk you through anything. Hugs!!
What responsibility do you take in this dysfunctional relationship. The codependent spouse. Education is your friend. You need to find out that this disease is progressive, it will get worse. I wasted 34 year of my life with my addict. Always hoping that by him not drinking , that my life would be so much better. Our addicts are very sick people but we are the crazy spouses living every day in this mess.
Reach out to some alanon meetings or open aa meetings. Keep reading the stickies and maybe seek out a therapist. This is all about self care for you. He is an adult and can take care of himself. He doesn't have a problem with his drinking, you do, so its not his problem to fix. It is yours. Find out how you can fix your problem. Keep posting, asking questions and we can walk you through anything. Hugs!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 70
So if you're prone to feeling extreme responsibility
What responsibility do you take in this dysfunctional relationship.
I do have an addiction therapist who is helping me think these things through. I think that's why I've been able to make progress. I have been seeing her every week or every other week and been to one spouse's support group session. My next appointment is next week. I have found it immensely helpful to be able to talk to someone about all of this; it helps keep me honest and moving forward.
Today, I am really really struggling. I received the retainer agreement for the lawyer and am just questioning my decision. I have real fears that it will get worse - not better - if I go through with this. I'm really worried my kids will hate me and I'll end up sad and lonely.
Although, in all honesty, I'm already sad and lonely so that won't really change if we separate and/or divorce. The kids, though ... that is really tearing me apart.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central O-H-I-O
Posts: 1,689
Originally Posted by Wheelsup 
Today, I am really really struggling. I received the retainer agreement for the lawyer and am just questioning my decision. I have real fears that it will get worse - not better - if I go through with this. I'm really worried my kids will hate me and I'll end up sad and lonely.
Although, in all honesty, I'm already sad and lonely so that won't really change if we separate and/or divorce. The kids, though ... that is really tearing me apart.
Although, in all honesty, I'm already sad and lonely so that won't really change if we separate and/or divorce. The kids, though ... that is really tearing me apart.
COD
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,434
Growing up in an unhappy alcoholic home is not a "win" for the kids.
They have no choice, nor the maturity to see the big picture.
That's one of the very tough things of being the adult / parent.
Do your research, and you'll see how much negative lifelong impact being
a COA--child of alcoholic, has on kids when they become adults.
Wishing you strength.
He will try to "be nice" to hoover you back in,
but as an alcoholic myself, I can tell you simply
not drinking for a few days , weeks, months is nothing
like recovery, as the underlying issues are not being addressed
that led to the drinking in the first place.
He will most likely be drinking as soon as you "cancel" the divorce,
and start the cycle again, if he isn't sneaking it already. . . trust your gut on this.
They have no choice, nor the maturity to see the big picture.
That's one of the very tough things of being the adult / parent.
Do your research, and you'll see how much negative lifelong impact being
a COA--child of alcoholic, has on kids when they become adults.
Wishing you strength.
He will try to "be nice" to hoover you back in,
but as an alcoholic myself, I can tell you simply
not drinking for a few days , weeks, months is nothing
like recovery, as the underlying issues are not being addressed
that led to the drinking in the first place.
He will most likely be drinking as soon as you "cancel" the divorce,
and start the cycle again, if he isn't sneaking it already. . . trust your gut on this.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Wheelsup....maybe it would help if you got m o re information about the effects of keeping children in an alcoholic family/home......
You can get books/materials of the Adult Children of Alcoholics group....as, it will give you a look into that subject.
I don't think that anybody advocates divorce in healthy, nurturing homes. It is the dysfunctional ones that makes divorce an option...and, a better choice, for children.....
I took a course in Family and Marriage, once (college level)...and it went, extensively, into the effects of divorce on the family...citing lots of scientific studies on this subject.....and, it pointed out that many of the assumptions of the general population (in our culture), are not actually the reality....
In fact, it was proposed, that, staying in a marriage, just for "the sake of the children". often results in the opposite results than are expected by the parent(s).......
You can get books/materials of the Adult Children of Alcoholics group....as, it will give you a look into that subject.
I don't think that anybody advocates divorce in healthy, nurturing homes. It is the dysfunctional ones that makes divorce an option...and, a better choice, for children.....
I took a course in Family and Marriage, once (college level)...and it went, extensively, into the effects of divorce on the family...citing lots of scientific studies on this subject.....and, it pointed out that many of the assumptions of the general population (in our culture), are not actually the reality....
In fact, it was proposed, that, staying in a marriage, just for "the sake of the children". often results in the opposite results than are expected by the parent(s).......
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Wu,
I know you feel guilty about breaking up your "family". I stayed for 34 years because I felt the same way, I thought how long can this continue. I now regret that I didn't divorce much sooner. My kids didn't need to see or hear all the craziness that went on "behind" closed doors. They knew more then they let on. It's painful when your high school kid is asking you why dads lighter smells like weed or when your college kid asks you why you are staying when Dad is never going to make you happy.
I hung on for dear life because I was afraid, not sure of what. I felt my life would never be as "good" as this; I guess. This was so Wrong....I know own my own townhome, I have a good job with benefits, I have a great relationship with my kids, my home is peaceful and I can come and go as I please, my self-esteem has increased dramatically.
I don't have someone who spends a fortune on alcohol and drugs, or someone who thinks of only themselves, someone who is drunk and is verbally abusive and damages my home, someone who sucks the joy out of the room before I even get up in the morning.
And then I ask myself what I was afraid of by divorcing? Because my life only got better, even though I have a title of a "divorcee". It was worth it for me. Hugs!!
I know you feel guilty about breaking up your "family". I stayed for 34 years because I felt the same way, I thought how long can this continue. I now regret that I didn't divorce much sooner. My kids didn't need to see or hear all the craziness that went on "behind" closed doors. They knew more then they let on. It's painful when your high school kid is asking you why dads lighter smells like weed or when your college kid asks you why you are staying when Dad is never going to make you happy.
I hung on for dear life because I was afraid, not sure of what. I felt my life would never be as "good" as this; I guess. This was so Wrong....I know own my own townhome, I have a good job with benefits, I have a great relationship with my kids, my home is peaceful and I can come and go as I please, my self-esteem has increased dramatically.
I don't have someone who spends a fortune on alcohol and drugs, or someone who thinks of only themselves, someone who is drunk and is verbally abusive and damages my home, someone who sucks the joy out of the room before I even get up in the morning.
And then I ask myself what I was afraid of by divorcing? Because my life only got better, even though I have a title of a "divorcee". It was worth it for me. Hugs!!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by maia1234
Wu,
I know you feel guilty about breaking up your "family". I stayed for 34 years because I felt the same way, I thought how long can this continue. I now regret that I didn't divorce much sooner. My kids didn't need to see or hear all the craziness that went on "behind" closed doors. They knew more then they let on. It's painful when your high school kid is asking you why dads lighter smells like weed or when your college kid asks you why you are staying when Dad is never going to make you happy.
I hung on for dear life because I was afraid, not sure of what. I felt my life would never be as "good" as this; I guess. This was so Wrong....I know own my own townhome, I have a good job with benefits, I have a great relationship with my kids, my home is peaceful and I can come and go as I please, my self-esteem has increased dramatically.
I don't have someone who spends a fortune on alcohol and drugs, or someone who thinks of only themselves, someone who is drunk and is verbally abusive and damages my home, someone who sucks the joy out of the room before I even get up in the morning.
And then I ask myself what I was afraid of by divorcing? Because my life only got better, even though I have a title of a "divorcee". It was worth it for me. Hugs!!
I know you feel guilty about breaking up your "family". I stayed for 34 years because I felt the same way, I thought how long can this continue. I now regret that I didn't divorce much sooner. My kids didn't need to see or hear all the craziness that went on "behind" closed doors. They knew more then they let on. It's painful when your high school kid is asking you why dads lighter smells like weed or when your college kid asks you why you are staying when Dad is never going to make you happy.
I hung on for dear life because I was afraid, not sure of what. I felt my life would never be as "good" as this; I guess. This was so Wrong....I know own my own townhome, I have a good job with benefits, I have a great relationship with my kids, my home is peaceful and I can come and go as I please, my self-esteem has increased dramatically.
I don't have someone who spends a fortune on alcohol and drugs, or someone who thinks of only themselves, someone who is drunk and is verbally abusive and damages my home, someone who sucks the joy out of the room before I even get up in the morning.
And then I ask myself what I was afraid of by divorcing? Because my life only got better, even though I have a title of a "divorcee". It was worth it for me. Hugs!!
Not anymore.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 70
He will try to "be nice" to hoover you back in,
but as an alcoholic myself, I can tell you simply
not drinking for a few days , weeks, months is nothing
like recovery, as the underlying issues are not being addressed
that led to the drinking in the first place.
He will most likely be drinking as soon as you "cancel" the divorce,
and start the cycle again, if he isn't sneaking it already. . . trust your gut on this.
but as an alcoholic myself, I can tell you simply
not drinking for a few days , weeks, months is nothing
like recovery, as the underlying issues are not being addressed
that led to the drinking in the first place.
He will most likely be drinking as soon as you "cancel" the divorce,
and start the cycle again, if he isn't sneaking it already. . . trust your gut on this.
I'm pretty sure he's had a few beers tonight. But all is relatively quiet. Other than my kiddos who are being loud and noisy and having fun.
Tomorrow will be another day ....
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