Wheelsup

So ... what do I do then? I have been not talking about these things ... but then they build up. They don't really go away. How do you resolve issues if you can't discuss them in a way that makes sense?

I guess they don't get resolved and you end up where I'm at?

BAW81

I can't remember who's tagline it is but it goes something like "The hardest thing I've ever had to do is accept an apology I never received."

The harsh reality that most of us are in is that we have to resolve things internally with ourselves and stop waiting for our alcoholic to do it for us.

TropicalWinter

You focus on your own recovery. Having these convos with an active addict is completely pointless. I've seen it said here - it's like going to the hardware store to buy bread.

Therapy, Al-Anon, SR, and other forms of support are crucial.

dandylion

Wheelsup.....I think it is the hardest thing in the world to actually accept that they are who they are and that they are not going to see things our way. It means giving up hope that they will see things our way---see the light--

Also, I think that as we gain more self esteem, we don't crave their agreement and validation for how we feel and what we think.....
We learn that we know what we know and feel how we feel...and we will take care of our own welfare, accordingly.....

The ongoing arguments just wear us down and get us nowhere....
One of the goals of setting boundaries is to protect us from these kinds of futile exchanges.....

hopeful4

It's my tagline. I have never worked so hard to grasp anything. My children have actively worked this into their lives as well. It took a LONG time, a lot of education about addiction and personality issues, and a lot of therapy. It's been worth every dollar and second spent is all I can say. You will either grasp it, or you won't. When you do, it's life changing.

BAW81

Thank you, Hopeful! It's an amazing quote and it has been incredibly helpful for me in my recovery.

Wheelsup

I think this is why I don't want to discuss anything with him; because it does no good. But, really, what 'it does no good' means is that he 1) is unable to understand because he's an alcoholic or 2) has a different set of values then me. So, we are utterly incompatible.

What it means to me ... is that we won't be able to work our issues out. And, I need to be okay with that and what it means I have to do for myself.

Today was a miserable day and totally not successful on boundary setting. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

SparkleKitty

Wheelsup, boundaries are HARD. You're learning, it's okay.

It sounds like you've been "going to the hardware store for bread." You want understanding from someone who isn't able to give it to you. But you don't need to get it from him!

Counseling was immeasurably helpful for me in learning to trust my own feelings about what was happening in my life, and letting go of needing others to validate my reality.

Wheelsup

One thing that was said that is sticking with me was when he essentially said he's scared of me because I'm so angry and irrational and that's why he won't/can't talk to me. Some of his reactions yesterday made me just - ugh. The drama.

This must be the narrative he's building for himself to 'justify' everything?

I think that's what everyone here calls 'quacking'?

Ugh. I need to let this one go. Its crazy-making.

Sasha1972

Good call on letting it go.

It sounds like your ex is not able to have a conversation (you know, the kind two people take part in) - he's using the outside-my-head voice in order to build up a narrative in which you are bad and he is good, which he will repeat to himself over and over again, both outside and inside his head. In these "conversations", the only role you serve is to be the thing that means he's technically talking to someone else and not just muttering to himself. There's nothing to be gained by trying to engage.

Wamama48

Im not sure if this statement made by Maia1234 jumped out at you, but it sure did for me. Wow, I never thought of it this way. Maybe thinking of this will help you to keep your momentum going with whatever you decide to do. She said...... He doesn't have a problem with his drinking, you do, so its not his problem to fix. It is yours. Find out how you can fix your problem.

trailmix

You are trying to make sense of his sense. What he said may well be HIS truth. Maybe you being angry with him is too much for him to handle. Maybe he thinks you are irrational because he can't understand your point of view (now why that is, well that's hard to figure out - is it because he is in denial, because he is trying to justify because he is not capable right now of having any kind of conversation that touches an emotional nerve)?

I'm just throwing that out there, I don't know him so of course I can't judge it.

Now that helps you not one bit in actually making any progress in talking to him, but perhaps it sheds some light on why he made those comments.

Sorry you are going through such a tough and frustrating time.

Wheelsup

Hello everyone.

Things here have been sorta staggering along. My AH is attending AA meetings or telling me he is. My therapist asked me how I know he's going and, well, I said he told me he's going and tells a story or two that makes it sound like he went? I do know last week he skipped one so he could take a kid to the movies; that's not a good sign in my opinion. I am also pretty sure he was drinking one night this week; all the tell-tale signs were there.

Now, I have to be careful not to fall into the trap of complacency. I'm just so tired of dealing with everything that it is easy to just ... move along with the bumps of life and not really deal. (I hope that makes sense.) I needed to take some time to handle just ... life ... stuff this past week so sorta boxed all this husband-wife-AA drama into the background. I think that's when I'm at my most vulnerable, though, at falling back into thinking 'everything is okay.'

The therapist recommended I journal incidents and things so that it'll help me not go back into denial.

What seems to work best is to keep my interactions with my AH at a true minimum. I am beginning to understand this whole idea of 'no contact.' It really is healing to just not have to deal or listen to all the crap that comes along with an alcoholic (whether he be sober or drunk).

Anyhow ... just checking in.

Wheelsup

I do want to add one 'victory 'for me. Yesterday, I was doing all the kid driving (which was a lot). And my older daughter was like "why can't Dad do some of this?" And, I hemmed and hawed and finally said: "Your Dad drinks a lot and I don't want him driving. So, I do it."

She didn't say anything. But, I was glad I said something.

The most revealing part of this is ... my daughter I think instinctively knows all this? But, doesn't put words to it. She actually had to be picked up early from activity and called me to get her. I was at the therapist and told her it would take me at least a half hour to 40 mins to get there. And ... she said she'd wait for me. And did so on the bench in front of the school.

Meanwhile ... her Dad is at home and it never once occurred to her to call him.

Sasha1972

Your daughter is onto something, and you handled the situation very well. You modelled how to be straightforward about her father's addiction-related behaviors ("he drinks a lot and I don't want him driving") without being vindictive ("he's a useless drunk"). That is golden - your daughter will know that she can talk to you about concerns with her father without risking setting off a Mom vs Dad tirade in which she will have to take sides.

Your account of her waiting for you to pick her up rather than calling Dad - that is exactly what my Kid used to do even before she came to live with me full-time and before her father has his license suspended. She is making good choices, probably because of your example. You sound like an excellent parent.

You are doing really well with all of this - just keep going one day at a time.

blueraven89

I've been reading the forums for a couple of days now. I've yet to post my story, but have read it over and over in the stories of others. Yours is the first I am replying to because it gives me a different kind of hope. I am 51 and almost 29 years into a marriage that was bad right out of the gate. I stayed with my AH out of a desire to help him get better, mixed with a heavy dose of guilt, fear, etc. In all honestly, love was far down on the label like the nutritional value of a candy bar. If only I had left after the first all-nighter a mere two weeks into the marriage.
My story is long and not unlike the others, so I won't go into all of it here. I just wanted to say thank you for sharing that you left even after thirty-four years. I feel guilty that I put my kids through the turmoil of living the way we have. Both are older and the damage is done, but I will never forgive myself for staying. I know all too well what growing up in an alcoholic home can do to you.
Your post makes me think that maybe it isn't too late for me after all…

hearthealth

Wheelsup, I realized it never will be resolved because it is not how my husband's brain works. It's not his value system. How strange but true that is? How I had to accept those things of my husband I could not change. How I respond is the only thing I could change.

Ladybird579

Wheelsup, I realized it never will be resolved because it is not how my husband's brain works. It's not his value system.

Mine was like this. I'd try and talk to him and he'd sit mute or walk off while I was in mid sentence cos he truly did not and could not get what I was saying and basically wasn't interested. It was years and years before I realised I was wasting my breath. It was like trying to teach a cow to dance. So we split up. You can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long before you get damaged yourself.

Wheelsup

Reminder to self: Do not engage with AH. Do not engage with AH.

Quacking will ensue that results in 'you are angry' ... 'I don't like our petty fights.' ... just the overall notion that all of this is somehow my fault.

ARGH.

honeypig

Momentary hijack--blueraven, welcome. There are MANY of us here who stayed for many, many years in bad marriages. There are MANY of us here who are your age or even (gasp!) older--like me, for one! Please, please, do NOT feel that b/c you've spent a lot of years in a bad relationship, there is no point in getting healthy and moving on w/your own life.

Would you consider starting your own thread to tell us a little bit about yourself, so we can get to know you? Hope you do...

OK, hijacking of thread is over, sorry, Wheelsup.