alphaomega

Hi everyone.

My husband has been abusing Norco/Vicodin for years. He started on it after a back injury, but now only uses to get high. Like any other addiction, it started out innocuous enough, and is rapidly ramping up to (what I think are) ridiculous levels.

I confronted him two nights ago. I refused to talk to him whille he was high, but he gave me his bottle of pills and said "You are right, I'm totally out of control. I can't do this anymore.

I counted the pills. There were 36.

I left the bottle on the nightstand. Yesterday morning, I counted them, there were 32.

So he came to talk to me in the morning. I asked him if he had any pills. He of course, said I had all of them. Being an alcoholic myself, I know better than to trust anything that comes out of his mouth. So I asked him where the other 4 were. Oops. He must think I'm a dummy.

I told him I was done. I wanted a separation. He's married to his pills and I can't do this anymore. In 19 years of marriage, we have never talked divorce. Never. I'm working my butt off trying to get and stay sober and I just can't do this successfully if he is still using. So while I understand he may or may not be ready to give up the pills, I have to move on.

It wasn't an ultimatum, I was just being true to myself.

Long story longer, he took all the pills and flushed them.

And now he is in a panic BC he can't get anymore for 3 weeks. And he has himself convinced, what if one of us hurts ourselves and really really REALLY need pain meds ?

This has been his mental excuse for years.

He admitted to using every night. Four pills of the 10/325 at a single setting. Never in the day time. Only after 9:00 pm.

Is that a lot ?

He said he will start having withdrawals. And they will last for 3 or so days.

I know really nothing about opiate addiction so I need some guidance on what to expect, is that enough to have Withdrawals ?

mkintexas

Well I was doing 20mg a day. One in the morning and one in the evening and I felt withdrawal when I ran out. So yea, 40mg is enough to feel some withdrawal. It probably won't be that bad compared to someone who used 100-200mg a day. But won't be pleasant.

SoberLeigh

I have no experience, AO, just wanted to say that I am so sorry that you are going through this.

Love to you, sweetheart.

OpioPhobe

AO - based on personal experience and the usage levels of my using friends, 40mg would be what I would consider a light habit. In fact, I don't know anyone who was using for years that didn't escalate to a higher level than that. To put it in perspective I have seen folks get to >1g per day of oxycodone. Also, there are lot's of folks that take pain meds for legitimate reasons that are prescribed doses that are multiple times what you husband is taking. I wouldn't characterize that dose as a 'ridiculous' level at all.

All of that said, coming off of even a light opi habit sucks. Based on personal experience, if someone has been using daily for years they are going to get some withdrawal regardless of dose. The fact that he was only dosing once a day seems to be a positive. In my case, I would be fairly sick if I had to wait a full 24 hours between doses. If he is able to get away with having withdrawal for only a few days and then being OK then he has it relatively easy. It sounds like he doesn't have a choice given that he can't get any more for the next 3 weeks.

It sounds like he came clean to you and admitted that he had a problem. Also, he flushed the rest of his pills, right? What else are you expecting from him at this point?

Dee74

I have no experience or knowledge AO - just wanted you to know I'm sending you both my best wishes.

D

OpioPhobe

AO - I thought about my previous post and realized that it came off in a different way than I intended. Even though your husband may have a relatively light habit I don't want to give the impression that it will be a cake walk. Early on in my addiction when I had a relatively light pill habit I found withdrawal to be unbearable at the time. Hearing stories about more severe withdrawal and going through it are two different things. The fact that others had kicked much worse habits than mine gave me little comfort at the time. It still sucked and I still failed. It wasn't until I had a much worse habit that I was able to get through withdrawal the first time (even though the withdrawal at that point was much, much worse). That was because I just couldn't keep using. When I had a light pill habit it was much easier to give up on the detox and go back to the relative stability of using.

Lostinhk

My dear... If he is really quitting the withdrawals will last a lot longer than 3 days.

I think you may need to actively confront him and ask if he is willing to quit or not. If he is - great, you can take control of those pills and flush them all down the dunny, and ride his ass while he goes through withdrawals to make sure he sticks with it.

Opiate withdrawals suck major booty, and it gets a lot worse before it gets better. You both need to understand this... This is not a matter of a few days... It's a matter of a few weeks to a few months, depending on one's tolerance.

All you can do is be there for him, if he so chooses to let you be. There a a lot of things one can do to try and ease the detox, and if you need any advice on the opiates I'm just a PM away.

I wish you both all the best, and I hope you can both live a happy and healthy drug free life... together.

alphaomega

As an alcoholic myself, I know full well there is no advantage whatsoever into trying to force someone to quit using. He has been trying to quit on his own for more than a year. Trying, but not really. Let's say, he's been contemplating thinking about quitting.

Sorta.

A few weeks ago, he came to me and said we needed to talk. That he was out of control and needed me to help him. But we couldn't talk now BC our daughter was around. I waited for that moment when he was ready. It didn't come.

I thought, at that moment, he was going to get sober. Meanwhile, in secret, he got another script filled. So when he gave me the bottle, I was shocked to see it half empty. He had been binging for more than a week.

We had played the "hold my pills so I don't use them but have them in case I need them" game for 3 years. I said I'm not holding them, flushing them, or forcing you to quit. I'm just telling you, I can't do this anymore. This is not an ultimatum. You have to do what you have to do. I respect your choices, even if that means you are selling your soul and slowly killing yourself. I GET IT.

I'm an alcoholic. And, sadly, yes, there was a time when I would have chosen the bottle over him... So I know this game. Inside and out. For 3 decades.

I also know, he is entirely incapable of being honest with me. He can hardly admit the severity of his disease to himself. I know this has nothing to do with me and everything to do with addiction.

But I also can't sit here and watch him burnout. And I wont. I want more for him. More for me.

And I'm going to have it.

I know his usage may be considered "light" in terms of what it could be. I also understand that people in chronic pain are using at far higher doses. But his usage is stealing the very life out of him. He is depressed, overweight, miserable to be around, moody, a liar, a manipulator.

But, I'm tired of walking on eggshells while he is either, scoring, trying to score, running out of pills, counting them like some freak, binging, planning his evening surrounded by video games and tobacco and opiates, withdrawing, and on and on and on.

I thought he had it under control. (Duh)

I had no idea, none, how awful it has become.

And while I love him more than I can articulate, I can't imagine continuing on like this.

DG0409

Sorry to hear you are going through this.

One thought that occurs to me about the amount that he is taking is that he may or may not actually be being honest about the amount and times of his using. Although the exact amount probably isn't really what is important at this time.

You seem like you are at a point where you know what you are willing to accept in your life and you're willing to set healthy boundaries for you. I think that is a really positive thing.

OpioPhobe

AO - ah, that whole pill holding thing. Been there done that. I am sure that it is extremely annoying for the person holding the pills.

It sounds like he has a real struggle ahead of him. Again, I didn't want to make light of his addiction in any way, and my comments were solely in response to your question on how much he is taking. It doesn't really matter what his dose is compared to others if it is sucking the life out of him. Based on your description it sounds like he is there.

DG0409 makes a good point too. He might be taking much more than what he is telling you. Also, only dosing once a day seems odd after using for years.

I hope you are able to figure out where you want to go with the marriage and get to a point where you have peace of mind.

Lostinhk

As Opio said, however small the dosage may be, the point is that it's affecting your lives.

When was the last time you guys had a proper chat about him kicking pills?

Hawks

Is there really anything to be so super concerned about??

Its not a great situation, no, but does it effect you so desperately badly?

Keep your focus on you and learning to live sober.

It's very easy to take the moral high ground once we clean our own act up, but just think about what he put up with from you. For a loooong time.

If he isn't causing any major hassle, other than you just don't like him doing it

Then...... It's a problem, but try to get it "right sized"

Dave36

Yeah I kinda agree. Not sure it's worth leaving him over.

CleverDick

hello there, AlphaOmega

the one thing about opiate withdrawals is that they won't kill us. with a support structure to prevent relapse (a possibility which certainly does not want sweeping under the carpet!) we needn't go through withdrawal any more than one time only! for many of us, a tough bit is the intense return of all feelings - ups, downs, around and rounds. overwhelming. but that is all they are - feelings. and they always pass - eventually - always! feelings don't kill, it's what we do with the feelings that will determine our destiny

warm wishes,
cd

alphaomega

There's a lot being said here. I'll try to break it down by the questions asked.

Does it affect me so desperately badly - uh, yeah. Yeah it does.
Watching him tailspin slowly, is gut wrenching. I even had the pleasure of having to repeat a horrifyingly similar situation in my life that ended in the death of my only sibling. Ignoring his pleas to talk to him while he was high. The last time I did that, my sisters heart stopped after she re-dosed. So there is that.

I am focusing on myself.

No "moral high ground" here. But I will stand at the pulpit and preach what years of struggling with sobriety has taught me. And what I have learned here and in the rooms. I owe him that. I've learned a lot, and quite frankly, I have earned the right to show him some way out.

Even if it's wrong.

He can take it or leave it then.

I respect his choices. And his journey. Regardless of whether I like them or not. But I won't stand here and watch his choices suck the very soul out of a man who has a hell of a lot of living yet to do.

His using is killing him. Forget physically, it's battering him mentally.

And it's not going to get any better. He will continue to be owned. And his usage will get ever higher.

And I damn well expect him to do something about it.

Lostinhk

I think that's a very fair point of view, Alpha. If my other half was addicted to anything I would be very adamant about her quitting.

I really do hope that he comes around and bites the bullet. Keep reminding him that it will suck for a while, but afterwards it will be better than when he was using.

mrrecovery

Coming from someone who has a partner who supported me through the pain management, into substance abuse, multiple relapse and withdrawels, almost ruining us financially - she has never spoken such about me. Threatening divorce over an addiction that even a doctor will tell you can't just be "wished away"?

You speak about how hard it is to watch. Don't you think it's hard for him to watch his life fall apart over a few pills? If it were me, that threat of divorce would have made my habit substantially worse.

My Wife is more concerned about WHY I need to take them, what hurt me so badly in life that makes me want to drown everything out. Never was it a thought process of "I can't watch the one I love suffer, so I'm going to bail"

4 pills a night and you threatened to divorce him? Man I was downing 60 tablets a day, relapsed 3 times and my wife never once thought of leaving me stuck in that situation. And without her, I WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN BETTER.

You sound more concerned with the impact on yourself then on him.

If he is a trigger for your alcoholism, and you a trigger for opiate abuse, maybe it's time you both had a talk about that. You seem very angry, that's understandable because of the lies. But re-reading your posts, you literally say you've given up on him.

alphaomega

Perhaps if she had, your habit wouldn't have ever gotten to 60 pills a day.

Sir, both you and I are abundantly aware, that if this isn't nipped in the bud, it will get substantially worse before it even has a remote chance of getting better.

He has already gone from 1 pill a night, to 4. And while that may be not a lot for you, its four more pills a night than I can handle. And that's what he is "admitting" to.

I refuse to sit back and watch another person I love, die from pills. Just to get high.

I'm sorry, does that seem harsh to you ?

See, I have an aversion, a phobia if you will, to finding people dead. And respiratory distress is one of those nasty little "side effects" of those silly pharmaceuticals.

Yes, I do love him.

But in the last few years, I have discovered, that I also, love me.

I'm not threatening him. I'm expecting more from him than he expects from himself.

Tiredofdrugs

I know his usage may be considered "light" in terms of what it could be. I also understand that people in chronic pain are using at far higher doses. But his usage is stealing the very life out of him. He is depressed, overweight, miserable to be around, moody.

But, I'm tired of walking on eggshells.

I copied the above in reference to my own husband using his pain meds sounding the same as your story! I too am a Recoverying person off pain meds. I've talked to him and talked to him about getting off them. I've even said I would leave if he didn't stop. However? I'd only leave in order to shake him up. Get him to realize I don't want to live with someone using the pain meds while I'm trying to stay off them. As well as continue putting up with the BS.

Then I had a wise person tell me something along the way! She said: "You need to focus on yourself. Continue taking care of YOU! If your husband doesn't cut his hair, trim his beard, lose weight or whatever? That's not on you to fix! That's his problem!" So I stepped back and started living my life in that manner. I love my husband and don't want us to get a divorce. I don't let him control my life! If he gets nasty or moody? I leave the room. If I'm trying to tell him something and he jumps in the middle of my chit? I let him know I'm telling him something about myself and would appreciate it if he'd be gracious enough to try and understand. Don't put me down or box me in over it.

None of us like to have fingers pointed at us and get told what to do! I am a prime example to use for talking about how the opiates ruined my life. So I use myself as an example. I use *I* statements! He knows he has a problem being overweight and still using the pain meds. It's up to him to say enough is enough!

He put up with me being on the pain meds for years. I'm not going to abandon him during his time of using. I let him know everyday I love him. I continue being my happy self to keep him involved in the better things. We can only do so much for the loved one in our life that's using. We married them for better or for worse. He's not physically abusing me so it's just his moods and the other negatives I have to life with right now.

All I can suggest at this time is come down off your anger! You yourself weren't the best wife years ago. Now the tide has turned!

TOD

OpioPhobe

AO - if, God forbid, you were to pick up another drink at some point would you expect your husband to pack up and leave? You mention that you have been struggling with alcohol for 3 decades and married 19 years. If I remember correctly you quit most recently on New Years. So, now that you have been sober for 6 weeks you are furious that your husband hasn't been able to kick his habit over that period?

Alcohol has some nasty side effects too. People die after breathing in their vomit all the time. He could have just as easily said that he was refusing to stand back and watch while the person he loved pickle themselves with alcohol just to get drunk, right?

I am not one to try to talk people out of emotions, or to judge whether your anger is appropriate. If you are angry at him then it is what it is. What was he like when you were drinking? Was he angry at you, and threatening to leave if you don't stop? If he had left do you think it would have made you stop drinking?

You say that he is going to continue to get owned and that it will get worst. I am not sure how you know that unless you have a crystal ball in your closet. Some folks quit and never look back. A lot don't, but some do. Are you pissed because he isn't going to AA/NA meetings or something? I get that vibe from your posts.

I have a similar experience with my wife who started having trouble with alcohol last year. She was showing signs of early alcoholism, and it was fairly blatant to me. I thought back to the way she treated me during my struggles, and part of me wanted to be a controlling dick as a form of vengeance. However, I am just not that kind of person, and my main concern was her well being. I shared stories with her that I thought would be relevant, and I told her that I was always available if she wanted my advice with it. For a while it continued to get worst. I knew that confronting her about it directly would do nothing to help so I did have to sit back and watch for some time. She eventually turned it around on her own and she hasn't had a drink in quite some time (6 months at least). The one thing that scares me is that she still talks about having a drink every once in a while at social occasions. I told her that she can do what she wants to do, but everything I have seen leads me to believe that once the genie is out of the bottle there is no getting him back in. If a situation like that comes up I am not going to do anything to stop her. She was forewarned, and it will be a lesson she has to learn for herself.

I wouldn't have even been able to keep a straight face if I told her that I was going to leave her over the alcohol. Any time that she did something drunk and annoying I would remind myself that she stayed for a long time while I struggled tremendously. I would have felt like a hypocrite if I had abandoned her after she stayed with me. Granted, she gave me a lot of hell over those years, but she didn't leave.

Just my 0.02.