Out of the mouths of babes(well, teens...)
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Out of the mouths of babes(well, teens...)
My son came to me yesterday and told me that AH has been telling him all about our financial struggles. My AH is in sales and had many years of being the top sales producer in his company. Well, the last 3 years have been active alcoholism and his job has suffered. No more new customers, old customers have found new suppliers, and AH is left with making salary alone instead of commissions. Those commissions paid for our son's tutoring, tennis, travel, eating out, etc. I've been using up some savings over the past year thinking he had some projects where customers just haven't paid. Turns out, he doesn't have ANY new business. Well, DUH, I should have seen this coming and done a better job preparing for this, but I had my head in the sand and I got distracted by life and the day to day grind of it all.
So, since AH has taken over the finances and has already bounced a payment, which he blames me for, LOL, he has been all over the family about the expenses. I'm doing my best to keep an eye on everything just in case he isn't but he didn't follow MY instructions on how to pay the Verizon bill and the bank charged us $35 for a returned payment, UGH.
So, my son and I were talking and he was all afraid dad's company was going under, which was how my AH put it to him. I said, "Son, I'm going to try to say this nicely. You get out of a job what you put into a job. Does that make sense?"
His response, "Yeah. I get it mom. I live in the house all day long. I see it. Say no more." And, those were his exact words.
What he sees? AH doesn't get out of bed until 10 some mornings. He is known to take afternoon naps and we've found him sleeping from noon to 2 pm some days. For the past 2 years, AH would go to our country club (of which, I'm dropping membership this month since it's the end of the year and doesn't fit the budget anymore) and he'd spend 3 hours a day there: going to the hot tub, the steam room, the sauna, and then showering. He also plays a ton of tennis and 3 mornings a week he'd be on court from 8 until 11 or so. Those were all hours that could have been given to his employer or his customers or building new business. He also spent every work trip for the past 2 years on binges and used those trips to just drink the time away. Probably not very productive in the end.
My mom would come visit and be like, "He makes 6 figures???? Does his company know how little he works?"
Well, I guess it's all catching up with him now and with all of us, quite frankly.
I'm going to use this as preparation for me to start managing my money better, figuring out what's really important, and getting a handle on the excess spending. This will be great practice for me and I'm actually looking forward to the challenge.
My son is on board, too. He agreed to help me cook more meals at home, told me he's OK with quitting tennis clinics and promised he'd find other ways to do practice matches with friends, and he has only asked for 1 thing for Christmas(a dog harness for his GoPro camera, LOL).
My plans have not changed. I contacted my lawyer last week so we can meet before the end of the year. I need to formulate a time line with her on when to sell the house, who needs to move out first, should I find a rental first or force AH's hand and get him out first, etc??? I have lots of questions but I am still ready to move on. Things will just be tight for a while and maybe it's the push I need to start taking a JOB search more seriously for myself? Trying very hard to be positive right now. It always works out in the end!
So, since AH has taken over the finances and has already bounced a payment, which he blames me for, LOL, he has been all over the family about the expenses. I'm doing my best to keep an eye on everything just in case he isn't but he didn't follow MY instructions on how to pay the Verizon bill and the bank charged us $35 for a returned payment, UGH.
So, my son and I were talking and he was all afraid dad's company was going under, which was how my AH put it to him. I said, "Son, I'm going to try to say this nicely. You get out of a job what you put into a job. Does that make sense?"
His response, "Yeah. I get it mom. I live in the house all day long. I see it. Say no more." And, those were his exact words.
What he sees? AH doesn't get out of bed until 10 some mornings. He is known to take afternoon naps and we've found him sleeping from noon to 2 pm some days. For the past 2 years, AH would go to our country club (of which, I'm dropping membership this month since it's the end of the year and doesn't fit the budget anymore) and he'd spend 3 hours a day there: going to the hot tub, the steam room, the sauna, and then showering. He also plays a ton of tennis and 3 mornings a week he'd be on court from 8 until 11 or so. Those were all hours that could have been given to his employer or his customers or building new business. He also spent every work trip for the past 2 years on binges and used those trips to just drink the time away. Probably not very productive in the end.
My mom would come visit and be like, "He makes 6 figures???? Does his company know how little he works?"
Well, I guess it's all catching up with him now and with all of us, quite frankly.
I'm going to use this as preparation for me to start managing my money better, figuring out what's really important, and getting a handle on the excess spending. This will be great practice for me and I'm actually looking forward to the challenge.
My son is on board, too. He agreed to help me cook more meals at home, told me he's OK with quitting tennis clinics and promised he'd find other ways to do practice matches with friends, and he has only asked for 1 thing for Christmas(a dog harness for his GoPro camera, LOL).
My plans have not changed. I contacted my lawyer last week so we can meet before the end of the year. I need to formulate a time line with her on when to sell the house, who needs to move out first, should I find a rental first or force AH's hand and get him out first, etc??? I have lots of questions but I am still ready to move on. Things will just be tight for a while and maybe it's the push I need to start taking a JOB search more seriously for myself? Trying very hard to be positive right now. It always works out in the end!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
I'm smelling a "rat" here. It seems to me that he is purposely reducing his income because he knew divorce was coming, and he wants to pay less child support.
Remember to ask your attorney about imputing wages, and dig up those tax returns from 4, 5 and 6 years ago.
((((((((((hugs))))))))
amy
Remember to ask your attorney about imputing wages, and dig up those tax returns from 4, 5 and 6 years ago.
((((((((((hugs))))))))
amy
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
I think your husband and mine are the same person!
You and your son sound like you're in a healthy place, good for you both. The teens really do get it. Mine get it quicker than I do sometimes.
You and your son sound like you're in a healthy place, good for you both. The teens really do get it. Mine get it quicker than I do sometimes.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,434
I think you are making some good plans for you and your son's future.
It might be easier to get the house sold quicker if you and your son stayed
AH might drag his heels or shut down once he groks that you aren't going to
let him keep everything for himself.
You know, living lean can indeed be its own reward.
You will be OK out of this Liz--sorry for the short term BS you'll be hearing in advance
It might be easier to get the house sold quicker if you and your son stayed
AH might drag his heels or shut down once he groks that you aren't going to
let him keep everything for himself.
You know, living lean can indeed be its own reward.
You will be OK out of this Liz--sorry for the short term BS you'll be hearing in advance
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yeah, which of the two of you would be more likely to keep up the house so it's in salable condition? Courts generally want to let the kids stay put, so it makes more sense for you and them to stay, and for him to find other accommodations.
Yes, too, to keeping all those old tax returns. Make sure they are in a safe place.
Hugs, the sooner you get free of this anchor around your neck, the better. I think a simpler lifestyle will be a great tradeoff for the freedom you get.
Yes, too, to keeping all those old tax returns. Make sure they are in a safe place.
Hugs, the sooner you get free of this anchor around your neck, the better. I think a simpler lifestyle will be a great tradeoff for the freedom you get.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
This would be my most urgent concern right now:
You know, if he deliberately crashes your credit, it will be a lot harder for you to go out on your own. I'm not saying he's doing that, but if you've really handed all the finances over to him, you've given him a lot of power over not just your present but also your future. I know you've worked in finance so I don't have to tell you that -- I'm just worried because you have been so smart going about everything step by step, it would be very sad if me managed to screw it up at this point.
So, since AH has taken over the finances and has already bounced a payment, which he blames me for, LOL, he has been all over the family about the expenses. I'm doing my best to keep an eye on everything just in case he isn't but he didn't follow MY instructions on how to pay the Verizon bill and the bank charged us $35 for a returned payment, UGH.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Based on experience in a similar situation you divide the cash now - he pays none of his bills - all the delinquent debt is subtracted from shared marital assets, and then everything is split. I live in a 50/50 state. IME there is simply no way to protect your financial situation while you are married. The most you can do is secure enough to get started in a new place because any nest egg will be split. This probably varies depending on your state so it is very good that you have an attorney. Make sure the mortgage is getting paid. That is a headache you do not need.
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Originally Posted by amy55 
I'm smelling a "rat" here. It seems to me that he is purposely reducing his income because he knew divorce was coming, and he wants to pay less child support.
Remember to ask your attorney about imputing wages, and dig up those tax returns from 4, 5 and 6 years ago.
((((((((((hugs))))))))
amy
Remember to ask your attorney about imputing wages, and dig up those tax returns from 4, 5 and 6 years ago.
((((((((((hugs))))))))
amy
Honestly, he isn't purposely tanking...he's just depressed and unmotivated and an alcoholic. I already have the past 5 years of tax returns in a folder in a FRIEND's safe, nowhere near here. I also have copies of all other important documents including marriage license, birth certs, ******** numbers, car titles, etc.
Plus, there's no way he can refute the fact that he is going to be getting a very decent lump sum from his parent's estate eventually. That will bode well in my favor when it comes to the judge deciding support. My issue is that he will lose his job and not be able to pay support and that his brother (codie to the max and lazy as all get out and executor of the estates) will continue to drag his feet and that AH will never get the funds from the estate. He will just tell me that he can't pay. That's why it's very important that I time things properly and have some source of income lined up or 'irons in the fire' so to speak.
As for AH, he's been surprisingly pleasant recently and even helped me string up the Xmas lights outside. That's the first time in 10 years! Of course, it was wrought with him telling me how to do it and how to be careful on the ladder and, "Whoa, what are you doing? That's ladders not stable!" Ummm, where were you for the past 10 years when I was doing this all alone on the ladder with a child holding the strand below me? Oh, that's right....you were sleeping on the couch or pouting somewhere else, UGH! Sorry, guess I need to work on that resentment a bit, LOL!
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by lizatola
No, I think he's just lazy. Always has been but he's been flying on the coattails of some very big jobs that he fell into over the year, including a HUGE contract from the Navy and that pretty much paid all our extras for 5 years straight. Well, the Navy is done building their container ships and now AH's jobs have dried up.
Honestly, he isn't purposely tanking...he's just depressed and unmotivated and an alcoholic. I already have the past 5 years of tax returns in a folder in a FRIEND's safe, nowhere near here. I also have copies of all other important documents including marriage license, birth certs, ******** numbers, car titles, etc.
Plus, there's no way he can refute the fact that he is going to be getting a very decent lump sum from his parent's estate eventually. That will bode well in my favor when it comes to the judge deciding support. My issue is that he will lose his job and not be able to pay support and that his brother (codie to the max and lazy as all get out and executor of the estates) will continue to drag his feet and that AH will never get the funds from the estate. He will just tell me that he can't pay. That's why it's very important that I time things properly and have some source of income lined up or 'irons in the fire' so to speak.
As for AH, he's been surprisingly pleasant recently and even helped me string up the Xmas lights outside. That's the first time in 10 years! Of course, it was wrought with him telling me how to do it and how to be careful on the ladder and, "Whoa, what are you doing? That's ladders not stable!" Ummm, where were you for the past 10 years when I was doing this all alone on the ladder with a child holding the strand below me? Oh, that's right....you were sleeping on the couch or pouting somewhere else, UGH! Sorry, guess I need to work on that resentment a bit, LOL!
Honestly, he isn't purposely tanking...he's just depressed and unmotivated and an alcoholic. I already have the past 5 years of tax returns in a folder in a FRIEND's safe, nowhere near here. I also have copies of all other important documents including marriage license, birth certs, ******** numbers, car titles, etc.
Plus, there's no way he can refute the fact that he is going to be getting a very decent lump sum from his parent's estate eventually. That will bode well in my favor when it comes to the judge deciding support. My issue is that he will lose his job and not be able to pay support and that his brother (codie to the max and lazy as all get out and executor of the estates) will continue to drag his feet and that AH will never get the funds from the estate. He will just tell me that he can't pay. That's why it's very important that I time things properly and have some source of income lined up or 'irons in the fire' so to speak.
As for AH, he's been surprisingly pleasant recently and even helped me string up the Xmas lights outside. That's the first time in 10 years! Of course, it was wrought with him telling me how to do it and how to be careful on the ladder and, "Whoa, what are you doing? That's ladders not stable!" Ummm, where were you for the past 10 years when I was doing this all alone on the ladder with a child holding the strand below me? Oh, that's right....you were sleeping on the couch or pouting somewhere else, UGH! Sorry, guess I need to work on that resentment a bit, LOL!
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Originally Posted by MissFixit
I am not a lawyer, but inherited assets are not marital assets. They are not part of divorce settlements. You might check on this with your attorney.
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Originally Posted by MissFixit
I am not a lawyer, but inherited assets are not marital assets. They are not part of divorce settlements. You might check on this with your attorney.
She said that the judge will see a guy who has full time employment, a 401K, a pension, good insurance plans, potential for commission if he works his job, AND an estate payout at some point. I, on the other hand, have none of those things. In the grand scheme of things, he will always be better off financially than I am and that is where the judge may at least order some spousal maintenance so that I can get back on my feet.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Liz, I hate to say this but I think that the reality is that his job longevity is tanking and it is likely that there will be little or no income for him or from him in the near future. It is unlikely, especially given his binges on company trips, that he is still a valued employee. The cat is out of the bag about his alcoholism. Companies don't carry sales people who don't perform very long.
It would be safest to count on NO money from him, and to get out of this as fast as you can while he still appears to have some assets. But even then, if he loses his job, he won't have any assets no matter what child support/alimony is required of him.
I don't understand why, since you were married to him when his parent(s) died, his inheritance is not considered marital assets. Maybe it is state law in your state?
There is an old saying that people in denial "are just moving the deck chairs around on the Titantic", and I'd rather see you jump into a life boat as soon as you can. Given what you've said here, I just don't get a good feeling about how rapidly this whole thing could unravel.
ShootingStar1
It would be safest to count on NO money from him, and to get out of this as fast as you can while he still appears to have some assets. But even then, if he loses his job, he won't have any assets no matter what child support/alimony is required of him.
I don't understand why, since you were married to him when his parent(s) died, his inheritance is not considered marital assets. Maybe it is state law in your state?
There is an old saying that people in denial "are just moving the deck chairs around on the Titantic", and I'd rather see you jump into a life boat as soon as you can. Given what you've said here, I just don't get a good feeling about how rapidly this whole thing could unravel.
ShootingStar1
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Inheritances are often considered the separate (non-marital) property of the recipient, regardless of when it was received. That's the law in many states. Same with gifts. It can lose that status if it's commingled with marital assets. The law varies from state to state.
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Originally Posted by ShootingStar1
Liz, I hate to say this but I think that the reality is that his job longevity is tanking and it is likely that there will be little or no income for him or from him in the near future. It is unlikely, especially given his binges on company trips, that he is still a valued employee. The cat is out of the bag about his alcoholism. Companies don't carry sales people who don't perform very long.
It would be safest to count on NO money from him, and to get out of this as fast as you can while he still appears to have some assets. But even then, if he loses his job, he won't have any assets no matter what child support/alimony is required of him.
I don't understand why, since you were married to him when his parent(s) died, his inheritance is not considered marital assets. Maybe it is state law in your state?
There is an old saying that people in denial "are just moving the deck chairs around on the Titantic", and I'd rather see you jump into a life boat as soon as you can. Given what you've said here, I just don't get a good feeling about how rapidly this whole thing could unravel.
ShootingStar1
It would be safest to count on NO money from him, and to get out of this as fast as you can while he still appears to have some assets. But even then, if he loses his job, he won't have any assets no matter what child support/alimony is required of him.
I don't understand why, since you were married to him when his parent(s) died, his inheritance is not considered marital assets. Maybe it is state law in your state?
There is an old saying that people in denial "are just moving the deck chairs around on the Titantic", and I'd rather see you jump into a life boat as soon as you can. Given what you've said here, I just don't get a good feeling about how rapidly this whole thing could unravel.
ShootingStar1
I agree with Shootingstar1 - I would get out of this marriage ASAP. If he becomes unemployed you are going to have issues and it looks like he is heading that way. If his parents estate is still in probate I am concerned whether you will be able to include that a possible support. If at all - I hear what your attorney said still I have an uncomfortable feeling about it.
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I knew my X would eventually lose his job. He works in social services which is hugely unstable. Two, he is a lazy lump. I am doing everything in my power to prepare to raise my children financially by myself. Anything I do get from him will just be a bonus. It's not easy, but it's reality. Happened quickly. He paid child support from May to Sep. Now he is not paying a dime. Fun times.....
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
I knew my X would eventually lose his job. He works in social services which is hugely unstable. Two, he is a lazy lump. I am doing everything in my power to prepare to raise my children financially by myself. Anything I do get from him will just be a bonus. It's not easy, but it's reality. Happened quickly. He paid child support from May to Sep. Now he is not paying a dime. Fun times.....
Same.
I made some very tough personal decisions to allow me to survive on my own income, which is small. There have been some sacrifices/trade offs that I wish I wouldn't have had to make but I regret none of them.
This entire process has taught me, over and over, that sometimes the best available choice is still not the choice we want. The clincher is we still have to make a choice - and doing nothing is also a choice like it or not.
:sigh:
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