TakingCharge999

From "why does he do that" book by Lundy Bancroft

Control Tactics in Arguments

Sarcasm
Ridicule
Distorting what happened in an earlier interaction
Sulking
Accusing you of doing what he does, or thinking the way he thinks
Using a tone of absolute authority
Interrupting
Not listening, refusing to respond
Laughing out loud at your opinion or perspective
Turning your grievances around to use against you
Changing the subject to his grievances
Criticism that is harsh, undeserved or frequent
Provoking guilt
Playing the victim
Smirking, rolling his eyes, contemptuous facial expressions
Yelling, out-shouting
Swearing
Name calling, insults, put downs
Walking out
Towering over you
Walking towards you in an intimidating way
Blocking a doorway
Physical intimidation, such as getting too close when angry
Threatening to leave or harm you

Tuffgirl

Cutting and pasting for my 'future reference' folder. Thanks!

Florence

Yeah. I think this needs to go on the fridge.

Buffalo66

Honestly? I have done some of these at some point when dealing w my A.
He does them all, and more. But I've done these things in arguments.

Live

I have too.

The book really is an important and insightful book tho'
It demonstrates how these and many other things can be configured into a very twisted power & control set of dynamics which victimize someone and can be very hard to sort out and understand. They tend to be confusing by nature. The argument is never what is on the surface or what it seems to be about.

celticghirl

Ya me too,i can see myself in a lot of these.

sodetermined

It's all enough to almost drive you insane.

But knowing someone has written about it, and can spot on describe what was taking place...lets me know I'm not the crazy one.

gerryP

I haven't read the book and I am sure it is a worthwhile read, but a good number of people I know engage in these tactics who couldn't be further from an alcoholic.

You don't have to be an alcoholic to be a controlling, manipulative, lying, cheating, distrustful, self absorbed, lazy sob...to name a few.

StarCat

"Why Does He Do That?" isn't about alcoholics, but abuse.
The subtitle is "Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men," and was written by someone who worked closely with abusive men, starting with those who were going to court-ordered therapy for abusing their wives or partners.

My XABF did all those on the list, except the laughing out loud, instead he had more of a sneer to his face, "Can't you see why that's a stupid idea?"

This book was a lifesaver to me, and anyone who suspects they are being abused - especially verbally and/or emotionally - should read a copy.

tallulah

Distorting what happened in an earlier interaction

This one, oh my, drove me crazy.. well, it made me think I was crazy. I remember one conversation we had where he completely switcheroo'd what had been said previously. It had been about 6 months earlier that the conversation he dragged up had happened, but I have pretty good retention and was clear on it. But, he had me questioning myself.. until I saw text messages on my phone confirming what I had said. Did he conceed? Nah, of course not. Meh..

Every day I'm reminded I'm sooo lucky to be gone.

Tx

blwninthewind

yes I would agree but the problem is that Alcohlics are ALL of these things..not just a few...and often all at the same time.

Linkmeister

After reading that list, I can put a check mark beside every trait listed. In fact, as I read them, I flash back to some of the arguments I had and it's spooky to see all of it in print.

But, as Buffalo66 says, it's not just the A, I used some of the same tactics arguing not just with the A, but with others in my life.

Al-Anon helped me see my part in the drama and these behaviours - now, I am aware of them and when I see myself going back to them, I can step back and walk away from an argument. To me, that was progress as I would always argue to the bitter end, when nothing gets resolved and you forgot what you were arguing about.

gerryP

Ahhhhh.

SoloMio

I hope this is not a thread hijack, so if it is, please ignore. But I feel I HAVE to record something that happened on our "anniversary vacation." I did have a great time on this vacation, but this happened on one day of the four that we were in FL, the day that we were going to a really nice resort.

My AH had bought the two nights at this resort at a fund-raiser sponsored by my daughter's non-profit. We finally cashed it in. Because it was actually past the expiration date, my AH did his "charming guy" thing and the public relations director honored the gift certificate. I have to admit, it was awesome. We had a great room.

BUT, the day we were to check in, he had in his head the whole persona thing--so, early in the day he dressed up in his fancy duds so he could work his wiles and maybe even do better at check-in, meet the public relations director, be his charming self and get something out of it.

UNFORTUNATELY, he drank all day and passed out in the car when my brother and SIL drove us to the place. When I tried to wake him up, he cursed at me. The valet parkers were waiting for us, so my brother woke him up, and he cursed at me again--loudly. It was embarrassing. So I just ran in there to check in. I wasn't looking forward to a scene in the lobby of this very expensive resort.

Well, after I checked in, he literally RANTED for 5 hours--"How DARE You!!!" and "You USURPED me!!" and "I'M the Big Shot! Why couldn't you let ME be the BIG SHOT!"

What a shame.

I feel guilty writing this out, because I'm not interested in bashing him necessarily, but I have to remind myself of these ludicrous exchanges so that it's easier to recognize them for what they are--at this very vulnerable stage, when I have made arrangements to live elsewhere for a while.

So, I appreciate the list. I can check a few of them off there.

TakingCharge999

I can identify these:

Ridicule
Distorting what happened in an earlier interaction
Sulking
Using a tone of absolute authority
Interrupting
Not listening, refusing to respond
Turning your grievances around to use against you
Changing the subject to his grievances
Criticism that is harsh, undeserved or frequent
Playing the victim
Smirking, rolling his eyes, contemptuous facial expressions
Yelling, out-shouting
Swearing
Name calling, insults, put downs

And yes it does not have to be an alcoholic. I recall a specific interaction where all these happened and XABF was SOBER. It helps to remind myself of reality when I go there again for the Nth time "but he was wonderful". Hah.

Also something outstanding is that the author is a male... I thought it was a woman.
Very handy to recognize these in the future as well, because I no longer plan to be around anyone abusive (addict or not).

wicked

I have always assumed the name Lundy was a woman too.
Interesting.
Now, I must get it again.
And, yeah, when I am being controlling at my worse, good god, it can get ugly.
Mean.
Thank HP, I have not had a temper tantrum in a long, long time.
Thank you TC for posting this.

Beth

passionfruit

I can so relate to this! Especially when it comes to women where my AH is concerned! To watch him go into charming mode, seems like I should have realized: If he is putting on for them, what is he putting on for me? Why would I be an exception to his rule of behavior? I wanted to believe I was different, after all "He loved ME."

I used to duck my head and try to sweet talk him and calm him down because I was SO afraid of being embarrassed in public, and frequently WAS more times than I care to remember! I walked around with this constant anxiety; afraid, ashamed, embarrassed, afraid, ashamed, afraid, embarrassed... It was absolutely miserable.

The last time we went out together, before I left, I had reached my breaking point. I was tired of being told I was imagining things, that I was crazy. He made a verbal remark aimed at a girl sitting in the booth next to us. He was clearly trying to get her attention. She popped up and smiled at him. That was it. In front of the whole restaurant, I told him that he needed to go over and talk to her because that was clearly what he wanted by his actions. He said no. I became louder. I told him I insist you go talk to this girl. This is clearly what you wanted. I insist on it.

He was shocked. He could not believe I had stood up in public and announced his behavior to everyone to hear. He later told me he couldn't believe I had EMBARRASSED him that way!

I told my sister about the incident and how I had begun to behave in ways I had never behaved before. I had begun to attack back. She told me "He has changed you C. You are not the same person you were before you met him. I have noticed this for a while, but wasn't sure you were ready to hear it before." She suggested alanon and began to educate me about AA and alcholism.

That is when I found my way here.



I promise you he doesn't feel guilty for anything he has put you through. You are speaking the truth, whether people want to hear it or not.

I have noticed outside of this little world of ours we have here (SR, alanon...) Society doesn't want to know the truth, even if it is the truth. They want to live in their safe places they have created. They do not want to get involved.

If someone were standing on a public street corner physically beating a child, people would step in. But if you stand up and shout to the rooftops, "My husband is an abusive alcoholic man. He is not the man he pretends to be in your eyes." When you bring it to their attention, there is something uncouth about you.

Believe in yourself and your truths as you know they are real and true. They did happen. You did not deserve to be treated that way. And tell the whole world if you want.

This is how my AH has continued to treat woman after woman after woman. Simply because noone spoke up, and when they tried, they were dismissed or simply gave up and left. I have police reports from his ex five years ago claiming the same things I have. Yet this man has never been held accountable in anyway. Not by family, friends, or legally.

Who holds him accountable if not you?

tjp613

If I recall correctly, Lundy Bancroft was a counselor that ran treatment programs for abusive men. The information in his book is derived from his training and experience dealing directly with such men...so he knows what he's talking about!!

Here, this is from his website: Lundy Bancroft is the author of three books in the field, including Why Does He Do That?, When Dad Hurts Mom, and the national prize-winner The Batterer as Parent. His fourth book, Should I Stay or Should I Go is due out in October 2011 (co-authored with JAC Patrissi). He has worked with over a thousand abusers directly as an intervention counselor, and has served as clinical supervisor on another thousand cases. He has also served extensively as a custody evaluator, child abuse investigator, and expert witness in domestic violence and child abuse cases. Lundy appears across the United States as a presenter for judges and other court personnel, child protective workers, therapists, law enforcement officials, and other audiences.

Buffalo66

Just want to say, here that my post admitting to doing and taking part in these tactics at times was in no way an attempt to undermine the validity of the book.
I actually did look it up and read some online. I plan to buy it after he leaves.

Yes alanon does help us detect and acknowledge how sick we become in order to find ways to cope w the behavior.

It cam feel like dirty ball. How can you play with someone who isn't playing above board?who is low blowing every step of the way?

You can't. Alanon teaches to stop playing, even if you stay.
But it is NOT easy.
I do not like the part of me that had adapted to his dark, lower games. Iam not proud. But I know I can do the self forgiveness work, and at a distance when safe again, maybe even own my sh*t and apologize.
I don't expect that from him ever unless it's a manipulative move.

DonnaJL

Reading that list, and I'm crying and this pisses me off because I already put eye make-up on and my eyes are stinging.
So many of those indicators are just so dead on in my/our situation. It's eerie to know that everyone seems to be going through the same thing with their A-partners.
I am so glad to have an anti anxiety medication to help me deal with it. What I'd rather have was a remote control for him with a MUTE button.