Alternative Approaches (Part III)
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,958
Ops hit summit by mistake...ah well such is life.
But this is a good subject: Alternative Approaches (with the below reminder of what Secular Connections is about).
So with the formalities out of the way, I'll be back to post some of the alternative recovery methods that matter to me.
But this is a good subject: Alternative Approaches (with the below reminder of what Secular Connections is about).
Originally Posted by SoberRecovery.com
Alternatives to 12 Step Recovery
LifeRing-Smart-SOS, CBT, Problem Solving, Self Management, Self-Empowerment, Rational Thinking, Positive Lifestyle Changes, Self Assessment, Commitment and Follow-Through, Self-Acceptance, Motives and Goals, Peer Support.
12 Step Programs are off topic for this forum and posts discussing 12 Step Programs will be removed. Please use the Secular 12 Step Forum for positive topics on Secular 12 Step Recovery.
LifeRing-Smart-SOS, CBT, Problem Solving, Self Management, Self-Empowerment, Rational Thinking, Positive Lifestyle Changes, Self Assessment, Commitment and Follow-Through, Self-Acceptance, Motives and Goals, Peer Support.
12 Step Programs are off topic for this forum and posts discussing 12 Step Programs will be removed. Please use the Secular 12 Step Forum for positive topics on Secular 12 Step Recovery.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,958
I think a little history with me and here at the secular side of SR may be helpful. I have had a big bone to pick with a certain recovery method that will go nameless in honor of Secular Connections (SC). In fact I will tread lightly as it is the proper thing to do. So when I first came to SR and SC in particular...it was the wild wild west here. Lots of slamming, berating and a good heavy handed amount of bashing of **. I think You may know what I'm writing about [if not private message me]. And I was in the middle of it....or as much as I could get away with that is.
Not a good thing for me to base some of my recovery on the absolute detest of another addiction recovery system. No, no, no there has to be a better way for me. So it came to me that if I focused all my attention on what worked for me (secular recovery methods) then I would have little of my precious recovery efforts wasted on...well that which distracts me from the freedom of addiction. And so I try to grow fort with those methods that have made a lasting impact on my recovery, life and my social interaction with others.
One thing that has helped recently is to lighten up. Why get all bent out of shape on what others are doing in recovery, even if it looks very suspect to me. Hey...whatever floats your boat and keeps you sober...right. Another thing is the powers to be made me a 'community greeter' here at SR. Very clever of them...LOL. I have to watch my P's and Q's about this place.
So There it is...a hella lot out of me and not much on the subject of alternative recovery. But that's the great thing about SR. One gets to process their recovery...right where there are as they are. Okay just a word about my way of addiction treatment...actually my dual-addiction treatment: empowerment. When I move from this position I feel progressive and not in-captured in some antiquated recovery ideology. See...no names...LOL.
Not a good thing for me to base some of my recovery on the absolute detest of another addiction recovery system. No, no, no there has to be a better way for me. So it came to me that if I focused all my attention on what worked for me (secular recovery methods) then I would have little of my precious recovery efforts wasted on...well that which distracts me from the freedom of addiction. And so I try to grow fort with those methods that have made a lasting impact on my recovery, life and my social interaction with others.
One thing that has helped recently is to lighten up. Why get all bent out of shape on what others are doing in recovery, even if it looks very suspect to me. Hey...whatever floats your boat and keeps you sober...right. Another thing is the powers to be made me a 'community greeter' here at SR. Very clever of them...LOL. I have to watch my P's and Q's about this place.
So There it is...a hella lot out of me and not much on the subject of alternative recovery. But that's the great thing about SR. One gets to process their recovery...right where there are as they are. Okay just a word about my way of addiction treatment...actually my dual-addiction treatment: empowerment. When I move from this position I feel progressive and not in-captured in some antiquated recovery ideology. See...no names...LOL.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Thanks Zencat for part III
...as chops said to me it doesn't matter how you achieve sobriety just that you do.
I agree regarding empowerment..knowledge =power.
Something that also works for me is changing my view on alcohol...I am not deprived because I cannot drink, there is nothing good about drinking....I do not envy casual drinkers, nor do I equate any activity with booze (ok still working on this:-)
This helps me:-)
...as chops said to me it doesn't matter how you achieve sobriety just that you do.
I agree regarding empowerment..knowledge =power.
Something that also works for me is changing my view on alcohol...I am not deprived because I cannot drink, there is nothing good about drinking....I do not envy casual drinkers, nor do I equate any activity with booze (ok still working on this:-)
This helps me:-)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
I really like this topic, because I think there is more than one way to skin a cat???? Did I just say "skin a cat"?? Well anyways, As I said in a prior post on the subject I had really not given much thought previously on how to quit drinking, but I had given alot of thought on how to moderate and never found a solution for that.
Now on the other side of the coin, I do think it takes more than just willpower. I am a very strong person, but I have let everything from peer pressure to attitude swings to driving down the wrong road presuade me to stop at the store and pickup a couple of beers when I had no intention of drinking, then my alcoholism would take effect after the 4th beer and I was off to the races. But what I found is I really had to have a strong reason....a gut wrenching reason....something that I could feel deeply about to make me want to quit. A DUI was not enough, fights, lost income, blackouts, hangovers, wrecked cars, loss of friendships was not enough. But one very severe withdrawal in a public place and a chance to embarass my 10 year old son was enough. The feeling still makes me sick today (32 days later), to think about it. Now everytime I think of beer or booze that feeling immediately reappears. Aside from that I have put together a workout routine and I walk my dog, normally with my wife 3 miles twice a day. To top that off I have been coming to this website 10-20 per day to read and post. This allows me to stay active in my daily sobriety and gives me an anonymous forum for getting support, learning more about my problem, and hopefully helping others with theirs. As far as the higher power stuff, fear of losing the love of my son, fear of losing my family, fear of losing financial stability could all be considered my higher power because these are the things that I live and work for. I don't feel I am really powerless because I do have power over my decisions when I am sober, aqnd yes there is a voice in my alcoholic head that does ask me regularly to "have a drink", but I feel if I stay active in my routine, I won't ever listen to that voice again. But the key for me is really not wanting to drink more that I want a buzz.
I think I might have a leg up on some other people who are trying to quit for the first time, because I did quit for over a year, (court ordered), and I was given tools in the counseling sessions that I had to take, and I learn alot in the 52 weeks of AA meetings that I had to attend. But at that time, I knew I had a drinking problem, but I never intended to quit for good at that time. So when my wife got me a margarita at a wedding after my drinking ban was lifted for the great job I was doing being sober, it sort of spiraled from there.
It just took me about 8 years to really decide that I have had enough. The method that I am currently using regarding the pain association principle is called Neuro-Association, I think..... and it was something that I accidently started doing and then realized that I had learned it from some Tony Robbins tapes that I had listened to 18 years ago......if anyone is interested. Basically the tapes discussed how we as humans will do anything to avoid pain, but if you are going to use this method the pain that you associate with the action has to be so real and so strong that it automatically changes your thinking pattern. For the record, this method has never worked for me in the past for making money, for getting a better life, or even for quitting nicotine. But I had never experienced as strong a feeling as I did when I was having the withdrawal at my kids ball game. It is still in my mind tonight....and I have probably had similar withdrawals, but having it coupled with the fact that I was in a public place with family and friends and my son just seemed to magnify it.
Sorry if this was longwinded, but I really wanted to write this out to make more sense of it for myself, and to be able to reread it.
Now on the other side of the coin, I do think it takes more than just willpower. I am a very strong person, but I have let everything from peer pressure to attitude swings to driving down the wrong road presuade me to stop at the store and pickup a couple of beers when I had no intention of drinking, then my alcoholism would take effect after the 4th beer and I was off to the races. But what I found is I really had to have a strong reason....a gut wrenching reason....something that I could feel deeply about to make me want to quit. A DUI was not enough, fights, lost income, blackouts, hangovers, wrecked cars, loss of friendships was not enough. But one very severe withdrawal in a public place and a chance to embarass my 10 year old son was enough. The feeling still makes me sick today (32 days later), to think about it. Now everytime I think of beer or booze that feeling immediately reappears. Aside from that I have put together a workout routine and I walk my dog, normally with my wife 3 miles twice a day. To top that off I have been coming to this website 10-20 per day to read and post. This allows me to stay active in my daily sobriety and gives me an anonymous forum for getting support, learning more about my problem, and hopefully helping others with theirs. As far as the higher power stuff, fear of losing the love of my son, fear of losing my family, fear of losing financial stability could all be considered my higher power because these are the things that I live and work for. I don't feel I am really powerless because I do have power over my decisions when I am sober, aqnd yes there is a voice in my alcoholic head that does ask me regularly to "have a drink", but I feel if I stay active in my routine, I won't ever listen to that voice again. But the key for me is really not wanting to drink more that I want a buzz.
I think I might have a leg up on some other people who are trying to quit for the first time, because I did quit for over a year, (court ordered), and I was given tools in the counseling sessions that I had to take, and I learn alot in the 52 weeks of AA meetings that I had to attend. But at that time, I knew I had a drinking problem, but I never intended to quit for good at that time. So when my wife got me a margarita at a wedding after my drinking ban was lifted for the great job I was doing being sober, it sort of spiraled from there.
It just took me about 8 years to really decide that I have had enough. The method that I am currently using regarding the pain association principle is called Neuro-Association, I think..... and it was something that I accidently started doing and then realized that I had learned it from some Tony Robbins tapes that I had listened to 18 years ago......if anyone is interested. Basically the tapes discussed how we as humans will do anything to avoid pain, but if you are going to use this method the pain that you associate with the action has to be so real and so strong that it automatically changes your thinking pattern. For the record, this method has never worked for me in the past for making money, for getting a better life, or even for quitting nicotine. But I had never experienced as strong a feeling as I did when I was having the withdrawal at my kids ball game. It is still in my mind tonight....and I have probably had similar withdrawals, but having it coupled with the fact that I was in a public place with family and friends and my son just seemed to magnify it. Sorry if this was longwinded, but I really wanted to write this out to make more sense of it for myself, and to be able to reread it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hey supercrew, I do some of that neural thin too...if I think about a drink I remenber the physical pain of my last binge, and I'm practically sick again.
I don't think willpower is necessary to quit. As I've mentioned elsewhere, it was willpower that kept me drinkin in the end, so I just gave it up, it was such a relief.
I don't think willpower is necessary to quit. As I've mentioned elsewhere, it was willpower that kept me drinkin in the end, so I just gave it up, it was such a relief.
Ethanol Intolerant
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 665
Rather than bothering ZenCat with a PM, I went back and looked in the archives. I was reminded of Galileo. He was given reign to build his telescopes and study the stars as long as his conclusions did not challenge dogma or rile the villagers. Despite my first impression, the latter concern is probably more important to SR.
Determining the ontology of addiction is not the purpose of SR.While that topic is of keen interest to me, and I believe integral to my own recovery, helping people is the primary purpose here. I can appreciate the owners and administrators of this site wanting to suppress things that tend to interfere with that purpose.
Going back several years and reading the posts it was impossible not to be struck by the human stories. I found myself drawn to people and wondered and hoped that those SR members from the past that no longer participate here have found peace. These are dark an scary places we travel. Whether it is grace or humanity that allows us to emerge intact is not really the point.
Colin McGinn is a philosopher of the mind that takes the position that humans are probably not smart enough to figure our the true nature of the universe or even consciousness. Rejecting both materialism, idealism, and dualism, he presents an argument that at first glance seems defeatist and shallow. But as you roll it around in your head there is a certain freedom from ego that is empowering.
Love and best wishes,
Determining the ontology of addiction is not the purpose of SR.While that topic is of keen interest to me, and I believe integral to my own recovery, helping people is the primary purpose here. I can appreciate the owners and administrators of this site wanting to suppress things that tend to interfere with that purpose.
Going back several years and reading the posts it was impossible not to be struck by the human stories. I found myself drawn to people and wondered and hoped that those SR members from the past that no longer participate here have found peace. These are dark an scary places we travel. Whether it is grace or humanity that allows us to emerge intact is not really the point.
Colin McGinn is a philosopher of the mind that takes the position that humans are probably not smart enough to figure our the true nature of the universe or even consciousness. Rejecting both materialism, idealism, and dualism, he presents an argument that at first glance seems defeatist and shallow. But as you roll it around in your head there is a certain freedom from ego that is empowering.
Love and best wishes,
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Happy sober Saturday morning everyone. I have taken an important new step this am in my recovery approach. Actually its a step towards.living life toward my full potential which is something I consider crucial to recovery.
So I have started to work with a life coach...its sort of the new age version of CBT. Anyway, the basic concept is that instead o dissectin your past to move forward, you accept where you are today and make changes that will lay the foundation for the future.
It went really well, and I have things to work on this week in addition to my continued sobriety.
Cheers.
So I have started to work with a life coach...its sort of the new age version of CBT. Anyway, the basic concept is that instead o dissectin your past to move forward, you accept where you are today and make changes that will lay the foundation for the future.
It went really well, and I have things to work on this week in addition to my continued sobriety.
Cheers.
Never settle.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Under immense pressure
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by LaFemme 
Anyway, the basic concept is that instead o dissectin your past to move forward, you accept where you are today and make changes that will lay the foundation for the future.
A favorite quote:
"You can spend hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened... or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the **** on."
-- Tupac Shakur (yup, I'm so gangsta)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Gneiss...you know I could just tell from your avatar that you were gangsta!
Luckedog...I will keep you all posted. One of the big things from today was being aware of negative thinking, stopping it and turning it around. I don't think I was really aware of how negative my thought patterns were until I was talking to my LC (life coach) and kept stopping myself because I was finally hearing what I was saying!
Luckedog...I will keep you all posted. One of the big things from today was being aware of negative thinking, stopping it and turning it around. I don't think I was really aware of how negative my thought patterns were until I was talking to my LC (life coach) and kept stopping myself because I was finally hearing what I was saying!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rural OK
Posts: 329
Good point, and one we could all take to heart. It is written-
"By your words you will be declared innocent, or by your words you will be declared guilty."
Pretty much along the same thought. Thanks for the insight!
"By your words you will be declared innocent, or by your words you will be declared guilty."
Pretty much along the same thought. Thanks for the insight!
Never settle.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Under immense pressure
Posts: 1,505
LOL Yup. White girl, grad student, middle-of-nowhere, Oklahoma. I ooze gangsta from every pore.
I have lots of trouble with negative thought patterns. I think it's Rational Recovery that has a thing about stopping negative thought patterns, simply because saying those things to yourself is not only counter-productive but also not rational. When you have negative thoughts about something, you basically ask yourself what evidence you have to support that idea. And you quickly realize you really don't have evidence to support most negative thoughts about yourself. (I read this same advice on this forum probably 10 times before I finally started working on it, I was stuck in this "That's nice, but I don't just think I'm a loser, I really am one so it won't help." I think I just had to wait for the post-dope depression to lift a little bit.)
I have lots of trouble with negative thought patterns. I think it's Rational Recovery that has a thing about stopping negative thought patterns, simply because saying those things to yourself is not only counter-productive but also not rational. When you have negative thoughts about something, you basically ask yourself what evidence you have to support that idea. And you quickly realize you really don't have evidence to support most negative thoughts about yourself. (I read this same advice on this forum probably 10 times before I finally started working on it, I was stuck in this "That's nice, but I don't just think I'm a loser, I really am one so it won't help." I think I just had to wait for the post-dope depression to lift a little bit.)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Something to think about, for me at least. I promise to never beat myself up because I had a problem wih alcohol. I promise to live in the present but look forward to the future and I promise never to insist that my approach to recovery is the only right way to do it.
Thanks! Please feel free to hold me to that:-)
Thanks! Please feel free to hold me to that:-)
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
The quote that stuck with me from one of the previous attempts at this thread was this:
This was/is very important for me.
I had to view alcohol as the poison it is rather than as something that is being denied to me.
Never settle.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Under immense pressure
Posts: 1,505
Well the idea that alcohol (or really in my case drugs) was being denied to me would automatically make it a sort of adversarial thing. But no one is denying me anything. It's my choice. If I want to go get a drink or find some dope no one will stop me, no one will lock me in the closet and tell me I can't. I just don't want the consequences so even when I wouldn't mind doing some I just choose not to. It's like a diet for the mind, you choose not to indulge certain appetites.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Okay, new thing to work on...not to be reactive to arguements on SR and not to get into discussions I know will be futile....I am posting it here so I can be accountable to you all.
One thing that has come back since sobriety is an inability to walk away from an arguement.
This is the difference between response vs reaction that my LC was talking about.
One thing that has come back since sobriety is an inability to walk away from an arguement.
This is the difference between response vs reaction that my LC was talking about.
Ethanol Intolerant
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by LaFemme
One thing that has come back since sobriety is an inability to walk away from an arguement.
Now I see everyone is on their own path. I cannot make anyone see a truth that they are not ready too see. I like your feisty posts LaFemme, but you are right there is a difference between response and reaction. SR is not the place for arguments. Support, sharing and listening is the best this forum has to offer.
Peace
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