justjakethomas

I wrote the following but didn't actually post it, I since have updated it at the bottom and would do anything to get some help. I have been rock solid at letting go of the guilt and blame but everthing just came crashing down. Now I am back to think I just may be needed the counseling.

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I am really struggling with where to go from here, for the past 5 years my wife's drinking problem has gotten worse and now I am forced into a corner to make some tough decisions. I am fairly well educated on alcoholism and I realize that this much of my situation very “textbook” but as many people would understand sometimes the standard advice doesn’t always help in very difficult situations. I completely understand she has to accept her problem and want to get help but this is a situation where I have to make some decisions right away that will affect my kids future for ever. I don’t want to give up, that is the last thing but there are a few critical and complicated issues that are forcing that decision right now. I do have an agreement from her to see a counselor but on such short notice I can’t really find one. I also need someone to talk to to make sure I am doing the right thing here. I don’t have the time to go to Alanon and would love to find someone to talk to that feels they are a good match for the situation and might help. If you or someone you know has been through a situation similar and would be willing to meet for coffee please drop me an email. I appreciate your time and consideration very much. I only have a few minutes but here are a few elements that I think someone would have to really have experience with to help

1. How to help deal with her parents who agree she has a “bit” of a problem but are definitely blaming me because I have caused so much stress to their daughter from a year of unemployment and failure for me to take care of my family financially. They are very successful, good people but cannot relate to some of the effects her problem has had on my ability to function. I lost my father at an early age to alcoholism and admit that after 10 years of a $100K + annual income (her staying & home) I lost my job and really have spent the past 2 years struggling in many ways. They are very resentful towards me and are very critical towards me for the financial hardship I have put her through. I accept responsibility for this and am taking as much of the blame as I can but cannot get them to let this go and embrace her problem. Consequently her big excuse for drinking is based on all the financial hardship over the past few years. I am finally back to work and have begun to rebuild my income but it is slow. Her parents have helped us through this financially but the big problem as I see it is that they never have once stopped saying “we understand the stress, we would drink a lot too, he really caused this…etc.” She gets comfort and justification from this big time, as I see it they are simply enabling her to drink unless they accept her problem, forget the past and stop enabling her by letting her use the financial card as an excuse to drink (& have an affair).

2. I know if I spent time at Alanon I could get help with this but I continually am conflicted with the thought of her drinking only because of the past problems and her being very unhappily married. I know I have been very good to her and if you take out the past few years that I have struggled with my career there really isn’t much to complain. I am a fantastic father, have been extremely strong in trying to keep this together but can’t get away from her bitterness towards me about not taking of her and the kids. I realize this is likely just her way to hide from the problem but now that I have almost completely taken all the problems of the past off the table she now only has one excuse…..I am drinking because I am just very unhappy in my marriage and cannot get by the past. Again I think I understand how the alcohol plays into this but I also have talked to a few women that drank every day just to deal with their unhappiness and once they were divorced it seems like the problem has gone away. How do I respond to this? My feeling is that the alcohol is blurring what she does, how she feels about me. I struggle with the fact that she thinks it that our kids will be better off if we divorce. Everything I have read tells me that most of the feelings and behavior of a spouse that has a drinking problem are controlled by the drinking, I believe that but if that is the case how do you get her to realize that and understand that divorce is premature until she can see and feel more clearly?

3. We are at the point where I need to either divorce, let go of our house and break up the family or I have to find a way to get her parents to understand that by supporting divorce it isn’t the best thing for the kids at this point. We need to deal with the problem 1st.

4. One last thing I really need is a reality check, my wife undoubtedly has a drinking problem but I am at the point where I have to agree to a divorce or find a way to immediately get everyone to let go of the idea that divorce is what she needs to be happy and balanced again. This is primarily about doing what is best for the kids and I am willing to fight to save this but I feel that between her and her parents I cannot win.

I am happy to get feedback in email and appreciate all of it but I really feel that I need to talk to someone right now before everything burns to the ground. I understand a lot of the fundamentals but that won’t save my family. If someone is a wife or ex-wife that has been through a drinking problem like this and can help I would really appreciate it. If you are a counselor and available right away I will make time to sit down with you (paid). In my life good things happen to people that do good things for others so I am certain this would be eventually be beneficial to both of us.


UPDATE :

So I did find a marriage/alcohol counsler (he is a Dr.) , gave him the thumbnail above for a backgrounder and since have went through 2 joint sessions and yesterday she had a one on one with him. After the 1st two joint sessions I could tell he was easing into this because he understand he can't just do a quick diagnosis and tell her she is an alcoholic. So I was very patient as he gathered backgrounds without directly asking a single question on her drinking in terms of quantity, frequency ect. She drinks everyday, often starts at noon and does everything else that this site says confirms that there is a problem in fact on what is supposedly a professional standard 20 question test she qualified on 14 of them. I have been to Al Anon, read many books and this is such as text book situation I have never been so sure of this problem.

Well unfortunately after I picked her up yesterday she said that the Dr. said that yes she is drinking to much but it is just do to all the stress and that because she is able to function in her high pressure job he believes that after we get divorced the problem will disappear. I was floored because her drinking over the past 4 years has turned her into someone I don’t even know, she can’t quit, she hides in the secret life of drinking and affairs and cannot and will not stop.

Bottomline after 4 years of being pummeled down by her drinking I finally stepped out and stopped taking it. I confronted her for the last time and she broke down and cried and agreed it was a major problem and that she needed help and was willing to let me lead the way. So that was 5 weeks ago and suddenly she felt cornered and everything went back to its all your fault all the way up to the counseling sessions that started last week. Again, based on what she is saying at minimum I really out there in terms of my perception of her problem. I am angry, confused and feel like I am losing it because apparently I have simply dreamed up this situation and need some counseling to fix my problem. I can’t win against her and her parents who are also meeting the classical effects of alcoholism.

I appreciate any help that you can give me that would help me understand more about this, I am a big boy, I can accept that I am wrong but we are doing a joint session tomorrow and I need to have my head on straight.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Charmie

hello.i dont usually post in this forum.im a recovering alcoholic.there will be plenty of folk along soon with some solid advice.what i will tell you as a recovering alcoholic is that i drank because i am an alcoholic.for no other reason.i blamed other things but as soon as i started recovering i realised that all that was wrong in my life was because of my drinking.not the other way around.plain and simple.i wish you and your family well.

steve11694

Any alcoholism treating professional knows that removing "stress" does not fix alcoholism.

They will drink with or without stress, etc etc.

Furthermore, someone experienced in treating addiction knows they cannot get an honest history/story from the addict. This is why they routinely get information from family/friends even while doing in-house treatment/rehab.

Why not take her to an AA meeting only to observe, not participate.

kv816

I kind of know how you're feeling. Your last statement about feeling like you dreamed up the situation and feel like it's simply just problems of your own you need to fix are thoughts I have had many times (and do still have now).

I've wondered many times how it is NO one else seems to see his addiction. I remember his sister told me once that he didn't go to rehab for rehab....he went to get the courts off his back. And then the day he got out of rehab she showed up at the house with a 12 pack for him. I stood there thinking, "you've gotta be kidding me!! Two days ago you said he needed rehab and now here you are buying him beer!" Or one night he was tired of sitting at home and wanted to go to the bar. I said absolutely not, can't have my car. Here comes his other sister with her car, threw him the keys and said "have fun!". I was shocked! Here he is on probation for his third DUI and you hand him your keys to go to the bar!?!?! Or about a month ago when he pretty much told me to take a long walk off a short pier because I refused to "save" his other sister from a DUI by giving him a ride home from a wild (drunken) party.

It'll send your head spinning.....I can listen to someone say things like this and think "well, yeah, you did the right thing, you're not crazy". But here's this family and friends of his thinking I'M the one with the problem. Didn't matter what I said, what I did, I was always fighting with everyone else. And then I'd question myself--well, if the people closest to him don't see it, then maybe he doesn't have a problem? Maybe it is all just me?

And that makes it hard, at least it does for me. I didn't know if I was coming or going. I'd try to help, get shot out of the water and feel bad. Give in that maybe I am wrong, get drawn into his quacking, leave and feel bad for falling for it (again). For me, what it boiled down to was co-dependency. I was always trying to "save" him from his mistakes and his errors. I wanted to make EVERYONE else see what I saw. I mean, if I refused to give him a ride and someone else had to then they'd wonder why I didn't do it and maybe see that he's got a problem and they'd be on my side to fix it. You know?

I have considered marriage counseling. But that's a two way street too. Right now (and for the longest time) he thinks the "problems" are mine. So by doing counseling all he'll see it as is a personal attack on him. All I'm doing is getting someone on "my side" to attack him. All I want is for him to live "my" lifestyle. And I realized that my intentions for counseling was for someone else to tell him what I already know....that he's an addict and needs help. My intentions are still trying to "fix" his problems.

He's standing at the bridge, ready to jump. I've tried to talk him down. But I can't. It's not my job. Mom always asked if my friends jumped off a bridge would I too. I always said no. In trying to fix xabf's addiction all I was doing was standing at the bridge, staring at the rocks below. I'm not going to jump off that bridge too.

I got a chuckle out of myself last night. My 5 year old has a cold and she came to me and asked if I'd pick the booger out of her nose. I laughed, said "I love you baby but NO!".

I've learned through my OWN recovery to be able to look at xabf and say the same thing. xabf is asking the same thing of me by expecting me to be okay with his drinking, refusing giving in to counseling and so on and so forth. He's asking me to jump off the bridge with him. I love him....but no.

ANEWAUGUST

I am an alcoholic, and the daughter of an alcoholic.

I will share what has been my experience in fighting the demon alcohol.

When I was actively drinking, I actually can hear myself saying some of the things your wife has said. I drink because "someone else let me down" (you not working), I drink because I am stressed ( life is stressful sometimes).

Bottom line is, I drank because I WANTED TO DRINK, and because I AM AN ALCOHOLIC.

Everything she is saying is the excuse de jour to protect and validate, to herself, her reasons for drinking.

Her parents sound like enablers, and possibly there is a co-dependent relationship there.
You can't change her, and you can't change them.

You can only take care of yourself and your children.

I truly doubt the therapist said that yes, she was drinking alot, but, validated it for her. No legit doctor is going to support someone abusing a substance.

Unless your wife wants to get sober, and put some sober time behind her..you are arguing with the wind....and it will blow over and around you..and can even blow you down.

Have you read any books on Co-Dependency? My hubby and I have been married for 25 years. My drinking was totally out of control about 6 years ago...I got sober, and our marriage has survived, even with my recent fall from grace when I began drinking again.

It hasn't been perfect...but, we have made it., and continue to make it.

My husband made it clear that he was looking out for our children. If I was drunk, he just kept on like I wasn't even there. Wasn't mean or rude..he had detached from me. He didn't tell me not to drink, but, that if I was, he and the children were living like I was sick and couldn't participate in what was going on.

When he was angry, I reacted to the anger, and used that as my justification to drink, etc. Eventually, he just became more calm., serious, and reminded me that my drinking wasn't getting any better. He was almost cold with me....and that, began to stop me in my tracks. I couldn't provoke his anger, that emotion from him anymore...maybe he was about to be done with me..I didn't know, I wasn't going to take that chance.

Married or not, divorced or not, I have to remain sober, I know that.

She is controlling the situation with her drinking and blaming you.

Its not your fault.

You need to find support for YOU, so that YOU can be the one reliable, sane, parent for your children...

I don't know if any of this was helpful..take what you want, and leave the rest...

justanothrdrunk

This is particularly startling, especially if you believe in the disease concept - of which I do.

From a medical perspective, there is a very specific list of criteria to be diagnosed as an alcoholic - and it's standardized criteria - International Calssification of Diseases.

You say this guy is a "Dr." What kind, PHd, M.D.? I'm really curious about the specific qualifications.

dothi

I feel your pain, justjakethomas, I do. It's the cutting disappointment of watching someone you love fail to take responsibility for themselves yet again.

ANEWAUGUST has hit all the points I was going to make and then some. Your wife has to want it. Not you - SHE and only she can make the change in her life. By telling you she would follow if you took the lead, she cast off her responsibility for her own behavior yet again. Ask yourself and answer honestly: even if you did everything right, do you really believe it would make your wife want to stop drinking? Yes, we can hope that it would; but in reality, would it?

Even if you got on your feet financially in all your previous glory, do you deserve to spend the rest of your marriage walking on eggshells because if you don't make enough money this year then she's going to hit the sauce?

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. But now you are starting to learn again and again how serious your wife is about her problem. She may say she's sorry, but look at her actions, not her words. What are her actions and the actions of her enabling parents telling you? From here it looks like, "we're not ready to deal with this problem". If that's the case, where does that leave you?

justjakethomas

XXXXX

Thanks. I really trust this guy, he is sharp and it just doesn't make sense that he is explaining her problem as a way of dealing with her problems which brings the obvious question of exactly what was said yesterday. It is driving me crazy not to be able to understand more about this but my wife knows that on Friday we are meeting together so if she did BS him that would be a very bold move on her part. None the less seems to be an important piece of the puzzle.

justjakethomas

Another good question, I finally realized I had to save myself and told her we need to divorce, she agreed. But I also said that I am not leaving the house until we address the drinking issue and that is when the counseling started. She is very defensive about the drinking but I cannot overstate her drinking, its more than what anything I have read qualifies as a problem.

smacked

Ok, I call ********.

I have about 29578323 other observational comments after reading everything you wrote, including the fact that 'alcoholism' isn't a diagnosis, doctors can diagnose with DSM 4 criteria for Alcohol Dependence, and Alcohol Abuse.. yada yada

The bottom line is, alcoholic or not.. is she willing to stop drinking and work on recovery? Are you ok being married to an active drunk? If she is choosing to continue drinking, (getting rid of you by the way wouldn't really help, it would just get you out of her way so she can drink without complaint or concern.. trust me, I did it too), it's your choice as to what you allow in YOUR life. Stress has nothing to do with alcoholic drinking, it's an excuse to drink. Just like a sunny day, a cool breeze, being happy, being sad, feeling bored.. feeling grief.. feeling nothing..

justjakethomas

I have asked myself that plenty of times and I am not sure, the past 2 years have been very rough financially but keep in mind she was a stay at home mom for 10 years and had a pretty plush life. Up until I got laid off 3.5 years ago I had made over $100K a year and even in 2007 are taxable income was $142k then in 08 went to $72K. The only reason I mention all this is because I just can't figure this out and want to be more than fair in how I present it. I have never been able to understand or explain to myself or her why the past two years I have really been in a rut and unable to really find a job. I am college educated and successful but this drinking has been an issue for me for a long time. I went and saw a counsler about it 4 years so I know its been at minimum a factor explaining what is going on. It has been like our problems have been feeding each other, the longer I my unemployment went the more she drank, and the more she drank the more depressed I got. Fast forward and everything has burned to the ground. I have been working very very hard at finding my "game" again and I did open my own distribution/wholesale business about 9 months ago but after a strong start her drinking got worse, she had an affair and my legs where just cut out from underneath me. She wouldn't argue, I have over-acheived as a stay at home dad and never ever just sat around, I just couldnt execute in areas that related to making income.

ANEWAUGUST

If she is so set on getting divorced, have you two discussed custody? I knew when I was full blown in my addiction that my hubby would have alot to say about it., if not even try to get full custody.

If she is actively drinking, you need to pro-actively document the extent of her using.

If she is serious about divorce, I would seek an attorneys advice.

I would do whatever is necessary to protect youself, and your children.

Once again, be pro-active.

I agree with Smacked, she is blaming you and wanting a divorce so that she doesn't have to look at herself, and address her problem. She just wants to continue drinking.

What do you want...for yourself, and your children?

justjakethomas

She is not willing to stop drinking because then she would have to admit it is a problem. I have asked her, her parents and others that if from my heart I really felt like this was a problem that is destroying our family and myself isn't the easy solution for the person that says the don't have a problem to just quit and show me?

But the argument I can only come up with is I have seen very unhappily married women start drinking and drink a bottle a day until they divorce. They didn't drink much prior and lets face it, many people drink because of stress but obviously my wifes drinking goes way beyond that. Just trying to be fair and understand how he could say this is a coping mechanism vs. something that I should not leave the house until its dealt with clinically because of my 2 young kids. Taking them is not an option, I hve no place to go either. This might be helpful, here is the goal statement we both agreed on to give the counselor prior to her session yesterday...I wrote it for her and she agreed to it before I faxed it to him.

xxx
We appreciate the time yesterday during our counseling session, we both decided that Jodi should attend today’s 3.30pm scheduled appointment and as with before we wanted to provide our basic goal statement for the session. Again the purpose of this is to stay on track with our commitment to understand what your professional view is on the drinking issue. If it is something Paul is being oversensitive to and needs to accept and commit to not letting this be an obstacle in our divorce he is completely open and committed to that immediately.

As for me I have the same level of commitment to this problem, if there is real problem with drinking that needs to be understood and dealt with so we can move forward with divorce I need to know. We have a 2 hour session schedule on Friday that may involve family if you believe this would be in our best interest and will need to make sure they are available if needed.

justjakethomas

Custody? Yes we have discussed this, I have no interest in getting into any legal battle unless I have to. As I have told her, I just want her happy again so she can be the great mom she used to be. I have no interest in letting this get to a point where I have to fight the kids away from thier mom, they need her and she needs them. But this is why the drinking evaluation is so critical because I feel her drinking is something that won't change much after the divorce trial period wears out. I am meeting with the attorney next week/ Thanks again for all the great feedback

Learn2Live

Here are some questions and observations from me. Take what you like and leave the rest.

1. You don't need a professional opinion on whether or not your wife is an alcoholic. Unless you need it as ammo for the divorce? People who aren't alcoholics don't have to go around PROVING that they're not alcoholics, or even discussing it. Regardless of whether or not some doctor or other professional determines your wife is an alcoholic, is this something YOU want to live with or have to compensate for for you kids?

2. This is a fallacy. This comes LATER. She won't do these things unless and until she decides she doesn't want to live this way anymore and takes decisive steps to change the way she lives her life. Apparently, she is still happy living the life she is currently living and she will find a way to continue to do so, with or without you.

3. I think you're a little too worried about what every body else thinks, especially her family. Sounds like you want to do the "right" thing, and look good in the process. Her parents are in Denial, and they are Blaming you. I'm no mindreader but experience makes me suspect that your wife contributes to this, by using you as a Scapegoat while you are not in earshot. You're not going to win this one - I would quit while I'm ahead: Stop worrying about what everybody else thinks and start worrying about YOU.

4. You can't make the "right" decisions for your children until you start making the "right" decisions for YOU. Make sure your kids are physically protected and not neglected and worry about the rest later. Stay in the present moment.

5. Drop the guilt from being unemployed and all that. Guilt is poison.

6. Wow, this one is REALLY loaded with codependency. Here we go...
You have not put her through anything. She is a grown adult who is 100% responsible for her own financial life. Just because you are her husband does not mean you are responsible for allowing this woman to lay around drinking all day.
Stop accepting responsibility for everything and Good Lord, stop with the Blame. Blame is poison too. THERE IS NO ONE TO BLAME FOR ANYTHING (not yelling at you, just highlighting my point). Blame is a VERY unhealthy mechanism that people use very often in order to avoid looking at themselves and all their sick behaviors.

7. Read what you wrote again. You know that if you went to AlAnon you could get help but you don't go, right? How familiar is this? We know that if the alcoholic goes to A.A. they could get help, but they don't go, right? Stop being conflicted; it's all very clear: YOU are NOT to BLAME. Your marriage is not to blame. You did not cause it, you cannot cure it, and you cannot control it. And yes, Al-Anon would teach you this.

8. You can't get her to do ANYTHING. You're so busy reacting to what this woman does and says you don't know which way is UP. Stop reacting. If you want to react to her, go to Al-Anon, call a buddy to vent, whatever. Just don't react to her. She knows you better than you do. She knows what's going to make you emotional and panicky and confused. You can't beat this monster but you can keep sane.

9. Her words are toxic too. You keep talking to her about HER problem and she is twisting you all in a knot. Now you think you're going crazy, don't know if YOUR thinking is "right." Her sickness is making you sick.

10. This is a blessing. I think you're ready to start your own Recovery. It's only 3:45 PM out here. I think it would be VERY easy to find an Al-Anon meeting tonight, just in time for your counseling session tomorrow.

Peace. You can do this. I know you can.

ANEWAUGUST

JustJake...

As an alkie, until I actually realized the extent of my problem, and what I might lose, I wasn't ready to take responsibility for my problem.

If she is drinking...would you allow her to have custody?Does she realize her drinking might prevent her from getting custody?

That is one of the cold hard facts that apply here.

Wanting her to be happy, is like wanting her to quit drinking. She HAS TO WANT IT. Nothing is indicating that she is remotely interested. She seems quite happy with everything, except she just wants a divorce (talk about the insanity of this statment and the alcoholic).

You have to decide, to what extent you are going to let alcohol interfer with and run your life, and your childrens.

Just has she has to decide she has a problem and needs to stop drinking.

Enough with the stress excuse already. I am a CFO for a company, I work 50plus hours a week, I have two children, a husband, my father died, and I could go on and on and on... I still have all of that in my life, drunk or sober. I had to decide that I wanted to change my life, and how I managed my stress alcohol free. No doctor, unless he is a quack, will encourage excessive alcohol abuse..plain and simple.

An evaluation..well, that might help.

But, alcohol is causing a problem in your relationship..evaluation over.

Mrak

Hi justjakethomas,

I feel for you. I was married to a wonderful woman for almost 24 years. When we went to marriage counseling, the counselor said, "You two don't have a marital problem, you two have an alcohol problem." I quit - she did not. I did not want to divorce her, but I couldn't live in an alcoholic and abusive household. It is embarrassing to say, but I was mistreated and emasculated. (Long and ugly details, so I won't bore people with them.)

I had to do what I felt would be best for me and my desire to live sober - I divorced her. I loved her (and still do) with my every breath. Now almost 4 years later, I am still sober and she is not.

I am saddened by my divorce, but my chances for living a rewarding and happy life are far better now that I am sober and out of an alcoholic/abusive household.

This is not an insult, but I hear a lot of excuses from both you and her in your posts. It is imperative that you do what is best for you and your children. Be confident that you will make the best decision based on the knowledge and data that you have. Sometimes indecision is worse than the wrong decision.

I wish you success at however this pans out.

GiveLove

Jake, you already understand everything you need to understand. If you're waiting for any of this to make sense, then you will wait a long time. The nature of active addiction is that it does not make sense.

1. Your wife wants to continue her current drinking patterns and will do anything to be able to do so. Lie about what doctors say, blame you, get her parents on her side, prey on your guilt, etc.

2. You aren't willing to live like this any longer, and are unwilling to force your children to live in this kind of environment either.

That's the whole story. The rest is just I said, he said, she said, they said, she didn't because, I didn't because...........just extra words.

The whole story is this: She is an alcoholic who is not yet ready to quit.
You are a man who doesn't want to live in her chaos any more.

There is nothing else to understand.

I wish you luck in counseling but more than that, I wish you the clarity and strength to see that you already have the answers. You just need to stop trying to dodge them.

Lots of great advice above, especially from our alcoholic members in recovery, bless them.

Al-Anon helped me a lot. I too found lots of excuses not to do it, but when I finally got help, life got exponentially better.

Good luck!

Bernadette

She blames you for her drinking.

You blame her alcoholism for your inability to get out of your funk for 2 years.

Time for everybody to put down the magnifying glasses and look in the mirror.

Only person you can change here and "make happy" is you Jake. I couldn't separate from the insanity of my alkie/codie parental upbringing and from my 3 alkie brothers until I spent some time in AlAnon and counseling. Gave me the actual tools to start thinking clearly about this stuff and make some super postive changes in myself & my life.

But you don't necessarily need AlAnon, or counseling, or any external thing to begin to change yourself-- you just need to accept that you cannot change her and commit 100% to changing yourself.

How old are your kids? Does Mom drive with them in the car? Does she look after them on her own? To paraphrase Coyote21 "Protect your minor children not their adult mother!"

My father was an alcoholic when I was growing up. It really sucked. I have memories as far back as 1st grade that pertain to alcohol and the way alcohol was allowed to control the dynamic in our family. He never lost his job or got a DUI. But that doesn't diminish the pain and anxiety and sickness that permeated our family because of his drinking. Pretending it isn't so bad is part of what creates the whole sick energy in this family disease.

You aren't doing your kids any great service to keep the family together if their mother is an active alcoholic. In fact, you and she teaching them by example some pretty rotten lessons about relationships, codependence, alcohol abuse, managing stress, and life priorities. Doesn't MATTER if she used to be a great Mom!!! Waiting on that to return is just living in a fantasy world.

The past is gone. YOU are free in this moment.

peace,
b

Thumper

Bernadette - thank you for that post. I wish I could have read it many years ago.

Jake, I can relate to the spot that you are in. I'm wishing you strength and clarity. I'm still floundering around a bit but I have started al-anon. I really believe that we must first become healthy ourselves. We fix our life - our spouses fix theirs. To try and do anything else is just spinning our wheels and getting nowhere (or actually moving backwards).