I guess she doesn't have a problem, why is the so confusing?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 20
Thanks, I do agree with you and it does help without a doubt. I just am struggling with the doctor/counselor not supporting my suggestion that she needs help. I hope that if you put yourself in my position I think you might understand why I am thrown off by having a very well qualified expert basically say your wife is right, she doesn't need help. I spent time with him, I told him how I felt and plenty of details that should point to a problem but yet it looks as though he doesn't believe it is a problem. Again, I think most people couldn't help but to doubt themselves a bit in this situation.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
Have you heard the words from the doctors mouth?
Or, just the version your wife gave you?
I am your wife...I would lie to a doctor, and lie about what he said in any way shape or form when I was actively drinking. I did ANYTHING to protect my precious alcohol.
I also would try my best to keep my hubby confused and off balance, took the light off of me.
Or, just the version your wife gave you?
I am your wife...I would lie to a doctor, and lie about what he said in any way shape or form when I was actively drinking. I did ANYTHING to protect my precious alcohol.
I also would try my best to keep my hubby confused and off balance, took the light off of me.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by ANEWAUGUST 
You aren't crazy....
Keep some things simple.
Her being an alcoholic really is just a "word".
Her problem with alcohol is a problem for you, and your marriage.
So, wether she is an alcoholic, or just an abuser in my opinion is moot.
How you live and react to that problem is your choice.
I would be interested to know what the dr would say if you repeated in front
of him, and your wife what she told you he said, what the reaction would be?
I also highly doubt...being an alkie, that your wife was truthful about her problem that she doesn't think she has.
If she wasn't truthful, the docs response cannot be relied upon.
You say your Dad was an alcoholic...have you checked into any information on being the adult child of an alcoholic???
It might add some insight into your reactions to your wifes problem.
Keep some things simple.
Her being an alcoholic really is just a "word".
Her problem with alcohol is a problem for you, and your marriage.
So, wether she is an alcoholic, or just an abuser in my opinion is moot.
How you live and react to that problem is your choice.
I would be interested to know what the dr would say if you repeated in front
of him, and your wife what she told you he said, what the reaction would be?
I also highly doubt...being an alkie, that your wife was truthful about her problem that she doesn't think she has.
If she wasn't truthful, the docs response cannot be relied upon.
You say your Dad was an alcoholic...have you checked into any information on being the adult child of an alcoholic???
It might add some insight into your reactions to your wifes problem.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
13 Characteristics of Adult Children
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1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end.
3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.
5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.
6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.
7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.
8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.
9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.
10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.
11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.
12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.
13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.
This is from the ACOA section, here on this board. When I learned how my fathers drinking affected my life, my relationships, it was an aha...moment for me.
Then, I was also reminded of how my drinking, will impact my childrens life.
You are right, nothing, not even a doctor (which I still say is a lie), justifies her drinking habits...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end.
3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.
5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.
6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.
7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.
8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.
9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.
10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.
11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.
12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.
13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.
This is from the ACOA section, here on this board. When I learned how my fathers drinking affected my life, my relationships, it was an aha...moment for me.
Then, I was also reminded of how my drinking, will impact my childrens life.
You are right, nothing, not even a doctor (which I still say is a lie), justifies her drinking habits...
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Jake,
The last addicted person in my life is VERY SERIOUSLY and CLEARLY addicted to, AT THE VERY LEAST: Crack Cocaine, Alcohol, and Gambling. He goes through tens of thousands of dollars every year on this stuff. If he gets a couple hundred dollars cash in his pocket, you don't see him for weeks (that is, until the money's all gone). While he is gone, indiscriminate and unsafe sex always enters the picture. It is very clear to me that he has a problem because I LIVED WITH IT and watched, clean and sober, while he did this to himself for two years straight. (He's been a full-blown crack addict for 20 YEARS).
When I told his Enabling mother that I had had enough of him living in my house, and that he needed to go to rehab, she said she "heard that it doesn't work," and sent him to see a PHYSICIAN. The physician told him that he DID NOT need to go to rehab, he just needed to STOP. YEAH RIGHT. His sister said he just needed to grow up. YEAH RIGHT. Everyone has an opinion and the alcoholic will let him have it.
You know what you know. Stop second guessing yourself.
The last addicted person in my life is VERY SERIOUSLY and CLEARLY addicted to, AT THE VERY LEAST: Crack Cocaine, Alcohol, and Gambling. He goes through tens of thousands of dollars every year on this stuff. If he gets a couple hundred dollars cash in his pocket, you don't see him for weeks (that is, until the money's all gone). While he is gone, indiscriminate and unsafe sex always enters the picture. It is very clear to me that he has a problem because I LIVED WITH IT and watched, clean and sober, while he did this to himself for two years straight. (He's been a full-blown crack addict for 20 YEARS).
When I told his Enabling mother that I had had enough of him living in my house, and that he needed to go to rehab, she said she "heard that it doesn't work," and sent him to see a PHYSICIAN. The physician told him that he DID NOT need to go to rehab, he just needed to STOP. YEAH RIGHT. His sister said he just needed to grow up. YEAH RIGHT. Everyone has an opinion and the alcoholic will let him have it.
You know what you know. Stop second guessing yourself.
Thriving sober since 12/18/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,115
As an adult child raised by two alcoholics, it makes me sad when I see posts like this, for obvious reasons. It also provides me some clarity about how sick a situation can be even when one person isn't drinking. I spent a lot of time my entire child life wishing that if even ONE of them were sober, someone would actually DO something to help save me.. and then I read things like this, where even the sober parent is unwilling to step up. In one way I want to thank you for being so honest about your lack of resolve and about your inaction with the kids. It reminds me that even in families that have one parent who you would think is "healthy", the situation is as dangerous and twisted as what I knew growing up.
You are hanging on to 'if she's an alcoholic or not' with every fiber of your being it seems. What if 9028253 counselors tell you she's not? Does that make her behavior ok to live with and raise children with? (these questions have been asked of you and repeatedly ignored.. hm.) If a counselor says she IS an alcoholic and she gets treatment, and comes out and drinks again, is that ok? What if she is an alcoholic and keeps drinking until she dies? And who the hell cares what her parents think about whether or not she is an alcoholic, you have CHILDREN to protect.. why is this such a seemingly trivial thing to you? I'm sorry, I'm biased, it infuriates me to think that even in a family where both parents aren't drunks.. there's such a lack of oversight when it comes to these kids' wellbeing.
Maybe I shouldn't have responded.. I have been too close to this situation in my own childhood. It has scarred me forever. That is what happens when no one does anything. So very heartbreaking.
You are hanging on to 'if she's an alcoholic or not' with every fiber of your being it seems. What if 9028253 counselors tell you she's not? Does that make her behavior ok to live with and raise children with? (these questions have been asked of you and repeatedly ignored.. hm.) If a counselor says she IS an alcoholic and she gets treatment, and comes out and drinks again, is that ok? What if she is an alcoholic and keeps drinking until she dies? And who the hell cares what her parents think about whether or not she is an alcoholic, you have CHILDREN to protect.. why is this such a seemingly trivial thing to you? I'm sorry, I'm biased, it infuriates me to think that even in a family where both parents aren't drunks.. there's such a lack of oversight when it comes to these kids' wellbeing.
Maybe I shouldn't have responded.. I have been too close to this situation in my own childhood. It has scarred me forever. That is what happens when no one does anything. So very heartbreaking.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 20
I am glad you posted this Flutter, I truely appreciate it. You're right in so many ways. It is frustrating to me as well, I am pretty strong mentally and have worked really hard to get myself to really fight this fight for the kids. Again, legal is a huge step that may be unavoidable I guess but I know there has to be someone that can relate to this situation where all her family is her in town and between them and my wife and now likely the counselor it is so tough to tackle the problem. I can't rip the kids out of the house, I can't kick her out and I can't convince anyone that she needs help. Everyone is just on board with the plan of letting our house go, divorce, split time with the kids and once all that is done she will be happy again and the problem will go away. She isn't going to give into the problem obviously but if the counselor supported me everyone would jump on board and I know she would at least be sent to rehab and everyone would be shifting their bitterness towards me to protecting the kids and doing what we can do to force her to deal with her problem. Her family is very influencial, she would never be able to avoid dealing with her problem with them involved. They just can't see it, they know she drinks too much and believe she is just doing it to cope with her unhappiness. This is so textbook on all sides, I wish I knew what to do.
Only stepping forward
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
Her family being on "your" side isn't necessarily just because the counselor agrees with you that she has a drinking problem. I have had that hope too. If only I could get at least ONE person to agree with me and help me convince him......
Truth is, I HAVE gotten people to agree with me. His sister, whom he is very close with, actually flat out told him she agreed with me. I was FLOORED! YAH!! HOORAY!! YIPEE!!! Oh I was ready to party!!! FINALLY one of the three people CLOSEST to him, one of the three he'd do ANYTHING in this world for finally agreed with me! If SHE told him he was an alcoholic than it was written in stone and he'd finally get some help.
Yeah.....he got angry with me. Said I had brainwashed his own family and I should feel awful for doing something so bad. How dare I do such a thing.
And then he drank himself into oblivion. Moaned and groaned about how everyone was out to get him. And then he passed out on the couch.
Of course everyone else thinks letting the house go, divorce, split time with the kids, yadayadayada is a much better idea. EVERYONE divorces anymore. It's not really all that uncommon. But an alcoholic in the family? That's like depression.....keep it hush hush. Don't tell anyone. It's just too embarrassing.
Relax Jake. Take a day this weekend. Go out and have a good time. Clear your mind of ALL that's going on (I know that's not as easy to do as it is to say). But at least give it a try. Just try to relax. Go out, do something you haven't done in a long time, find that strong, successful man you think you've lost. Try to relax and perhaps the answer will come to you when you're not looking for it.
Truth is, I HAVE gotten people to agree with me. His sister, whom he is very close with, actually flat out told him she agreed with me. I was FLOORED! YAH!! HOORAY!! YIPEE!!! Oh I was ready to party!!! FINALLY one of the three people CLOSEST to him, one of the three he'd do ANYTHING in this world for finally agreed with me! If SHE told him he was an alcoholic than it was written in stone and he'd finally get some help.
Yeah.....he got angry with me. Said I had brainwashed his own family and I should feel awful for doing something so bad. How dare I do such a thing.
And then he drank himself into oblivion. Moaned and groaned about how everyone was out to get him. And then he passed out on the couch.
Of course everyone else thinks letting the house go, divorce, split time with the kids, yadayadayada is a much better idea. EVERYONE divorces anymore. It's not really all that uncommon. But an alcoholic in the family? That's like depression.....keep it hush hush. Don't tell anyone. It's just too embarrassing.
Relax Jake. Take a day this weekend. Go out and have a good time. Clear your mind of ALL that's going on (I know that's not as easy to do as it is to say). But at least give it a try. Just try to relax. Go out, do something you haven't done in a long time, find that strong, successful man you think you've lost. Try to relax and perhaps the answer will come to you when you're not looking for it.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 75
JJT
I came back to the forum to see how you're doing and to wish you good luck with the appointment tomorrow. Please don't be hard on yourself if you go in with lots of objective evidence that proves to you she is an alcoholic and if it turns out at the end of the meeting she has zero interest in going to rehab. Just don't beat yourself up over it if that happens.
I hope you (1) eat your favorite breakfast or lunch (2) drink from your favorite coffee mug or get your favorite soda or whatever (3) hug your kids (4) look at the neighbor's bird feeder (4) read something that engages your mind (5) find a cheap movie or play or music event to take the kids to over the weekend (6) throw a ball to the dog for half an hour (7) jog or swim . . . pick one, pick two, make up your list, but INDULGE YOURSELF.
For the sake of your kids, focus on things you can actually change, just for today.
Blessed be.
Covington
I came back to the forum to see how you're doing and to wish you good luck with the appointment tomorrow. Please don't be hard on yourself if you go in with lots of objective evidence that proves to you she is an alcoholic and if it turns out at the end of the meeting she has zero interest in going to rehab. Just don't beat yourself up over it if that happens.
I hope you (1) eat your favorite breakfast or lunch (2) drink from your favorite coffee mug or get your favorite soda or whatever (3) hug your kids (4) look at the neighbor's bird feeder (4) read something that engages your mind (5) find a cheap movie or play or music event to take the kids to over the weekend (6) throw a ball to the dog for half an hour (7) jog or swim . . . pick one, pick two, make up your list, but INDULGE YOURSELF.
For the sake of your kids, focus on things you can actually change, just for today.
Blessed be.
Covington
Last edited by covington; 09-04-2009 at 01:16 AM.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
Jake, please stop focusing on your wife and start focusing on your and your children's lives. You are never going to 'get her' to stop even if everyone else agrees with you! The three C's are relevant here - you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you certainly can't cure it! Your wife is a grown up who will make her own choices - let her be responsible for them. I couldn't get my STBXAH to sober up despite 18 years together - I drove myself mad trying!
You are going to have to be the 'bad guy' in her family's eyes. Why do you care so much about what they think? Are you getting treatment for your depression? It sounds from your posts as if a lot of your confusion is fuelled by fear. Talking things through with my own counsellor helped me think clearly - do you have one that isn't a marriage counsellor? It ought to help!
Have you read through the stickies at the top of the forum? There is a thread there about potential and wishful thinking: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...potential.html You have to accept that your wife may never change. Can you accept her the way she is right now? Can you and your children live like this? A slogan that kept me going through my break up was: nothing changes if nothing changes.
I hope you find some clarity soon. You're in a difficult position and painful place right now. But you can get through this. Take care.
You are going to have to be the 'bad guy' in her family's eyes. Why do you care so much about what they think? Are you getting treatment for your depression? It sounds from your posts as if a lot of your confusion is fuelled by fear. Talking things through with my own counsellor helped me think clearly - do you have one that isn't a marriage counsellor? It ought to help!
Have you read through the stickies at the top of the forum? There is a thread there about potential and wishful thinking: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...potential.html You have to accept that your wife may never change. Can you accept her the way she is right now? Can you and your children live like this? A slogan that kept me going through my break up was: nothing changes if nothing changes.
I hope you find some clarity soon. You're in a difficult position and painful place right now. But you can get through this. Take care.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 72
justjakethomas, we saw a marriage counsellor who is experianced in addiction counselling, he asked all the right questions (as far as I can tell from what is described here, about withdrawl, physical symptoms etc.) and said in the end that alcohol wasn't a problem. Fair enough, it's still a problem to me. My H is well aware of this, and he still drinks. Plus ca change...
I'm sharing this to show that your counsellor may not agree with what you think. You do not have to agree with the counsellor, this is your life, not his. He is there to help, not to give you answers.
Over the past 15/20 years or so, I know a good few couples who have struggled with one or both partners losing their jobs. I don't know anyone who turned to drink to cope, honestly. I think your wife, her parents and maybe you are living in denial if you think this is the reason she drinks. You have also said that drink was a problem before that.
Who are these women? I don't know anyone with kids who does this, college age maybe, but not when you have kids/a job/responsibilities.
Just trying to be fair and understand how he could say this is a coping mechanism vs. something that I should not leave the house until its dealt with clinically because of my 2 young kids. Taking them is not an option, I hve no place to go either.
You are intelligent and capable, do you really have nowhere to go with these children? Is this a reason you want to leave them with their mother, so you can focus on your own life?
As I have told her, I just want her happy again so she can be the great mom she used to be. I have no interest in letting this get to a point where I have to fight the kids away from thier mom, they need her and she needs them.
Is it really the best thing for your children? Do they need you wife as she is right now?
Well you have to realize that unless I have a bunch of money and an attorney and want to drag my kids through more drama I really don't have much choice in for the kids. I will have them half the time but without me being able to convince her and her parents (which are really 2/3's majority) that she has a problem and unless she gets help I should take a stand on keeping the kids away from her.
Really, this is about you and your wife, and your children. Her parents may be enabling her, but they are outsiders in your family. You are your childrens father, the only father they will ever have. Nobody can replace you.
She smokes and drinks when they are at school, showers before they get home and will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time.
So she is under the influence of alcohol when she's on her own with the children? Is she driving with the children after drinking? What about if there is an emergency? Would this be acceptable if you were paying someone to look after your children?
given all the financial stress and volatility in her life she is drinking to cope with it but once we divorce and she finds her balance again it shouldn't be a problem. She said that he said the fact that if this was a big problem she wouldn't be able to perform at her job the way she does. She works from home as a software project engineer and does perform well even when she is drunk.
This makes no sense. If, once you divorce and she finds her balance she will be fine, then great. In the meantime, since she is not coping right now, you need to take sole custody until she finds this balance. As for the performing well when drunk, I have heard that over and over and over and over and over.
She drinks a lot, meaning everyday, often starting at noon. Drinks over a 6 pack and will basically drink until there isn't any more. Because she has been on watch from everyone she has been better but still ran to the store at 11.30pm after everyone went to bed to buy a pack of cigs and beer, obviously thinks I didn't know.
Did she drive to the store? Was she sober enough to drive? Is it worth calling the cops if she's driving drunk?
So anyways, all of this advice is great and helping no doubt unfortunately I think tomorrow there is soooo much riding on our final counseling appointment because we both agreed to accept his opinion and at this point it is seeming to support just getting a divorce, leave our problems and start a new life and then she won't want to drink...
You have the right to change your mind.
Thanks, I do agree with you and it does help without a doubt. I just am struggling with the doctor/counselor not supporting my suggestion that she needs help. I hope that if you put yourself in my position I think you might understand why I am thrown off by having a very well qualified expert basically say your wife is right, she doesn't need help. I spent time with him, I told him how I felt and plenty of details that should point to a problem but yet it looks as though he doesn't believe it is a problem. Again, I think most people couldn't help but to doubt themselves a bit in this situation.
I am not at all surprised you doubt yourself. However, it is your life and you have the right to not accept his advice. It is just advice, not a legally binding agreement.
I can't rip the kids out of the house
Even if the kids are in immediate danger? What ages are the children?
Everyone is just on board with the plan of letting our house go, divorce, split time with the kids and once all that is done she will be happy again and the problem will go away.
Yes, but, until the problem goes away, she should not be on her own with the children.
I hope some of what I said makes sense. It is just the ramblings of a concerned cyber citizen, but there were things in your post that jumped out at me and worried me.
I hope everything goes well for you today.
I'm sharing this to show that your counsellor may not agree with what you think. You do not have to agree with the counsellor, this is your life, not his. He is there to help, not to give you answers.
Over the past 15/20 years or so, I know a good few couples who have struggled with one or both partners losing their jobs. I don't know anyone who turned to drink to cope, honestly. I think your wife, her parents and maybe you are living in denial if you think this is the reason she drinks. You have also said that drink was a problem before that.
But the argument I can only come up with is I have seen very unhappily married women start drinking and drink a bottle a day until they divorce. They didn't drink much prior and lets face it, many people drink because of stress but obviously my wifes drinking goes way beyond that.
Just trying to be fair and understand how he could say this is a coping mechanism vs. something that I should not leave the house until its dealt with clinically because of my 2 young kids. Taking them is not an option, I hve no place to go either.
You are intelligent and capable, do you really have nowhere to go with these children? Is this a reason you want to leave them with their mother, so you can focus on your own life?
As I have told her, I just want her happy again so she can be the great mom she used to be. I have no interest in letting this get to a point where I have to fight the kids away from thier mom, they need her and she needs them.
Is it really the best thing for your children? Do they need you wife as she is right now?
Well you have to realize that unless I have a bunch of money and an attorney and want to drag my kids through more drama I really don't have much choice in for the kids. I will have them half the time but without me being able to convince her and her parents (which are really 2/3's majority) that she has a problem and unless she gets help I should take a stand on keeping the kids away from her.
Really, this is about you and your wife, and your children. Her parents may be enabling her, but they are outsiders in your family. You are your childrens father, the only father they will ever have. Nobody can replace you.
She smokes and drinks when they are at school, showers before they get home and will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time.
So she is under the influence of alcohol when she's on her own with the children? Is she driving with the children after drinking? What about if there is an emergency? Would this be acceptable if you were paying someone to look after your children?
given all the financial stress and volatility in her life she is drinking to cope with it but once we divorce and she finds her balance again it shouldn't be a problem. She said that he said the fact that if this was a big problem she wouldn't be able to perform at her job the way she does. She works from home as a software project engineer and does perform well even when she is drunk.
This makes no sense. If, once you divorce and she finds her balance she will be fine, then great. In the meantime, since she is not coping right now, you need to take sole custody until she finds this balance. As for the performing well when drunk, I have heard that over and over and over and over and over.
She drinks a lot, meaning everyday, often starting at noon. Drinks over a 6 pack and will basically drink until there isn't any more. Because she has been on watch from everyone she has been better but still ran to the store at 11.30pm after everyone went to bed to buy a pack of cigs and beer, obviously thinks I didn't know.
Did she drive to the store? Was she sober enough to drive? Is it worth calling the cops if she's driving drunk?
So anyways, all of this advice is great and helping no doubt unfortunately I think tomorrow there is soooo much riding on our final counseling appointment because we both agreed to accept his opinion and at this point it is seeming to support just getting a divorce, leave our problems and start a new life and then she won't want to drink...
You have the right to change your mind.
Thanks, I do agree with you and it does help without a doubt. I just am struggling with the doctor/counselor not supporting my suggestion that she needs help. I hope that if you put yourself in my position I think you might understand why I am thrown off by having a very well qualified expert basically say your wife is right, she doesn't need help. I spent time with him, I told him how I felt and plenty of details that should point to a problem but yet it looks as though he doesn't believe it is a problem. Again, I think most people couldn't help but to doubt themselves a bit in this situation.
I am not at all surprised you doubt yourself. However, it is your life and you have the right to not accept his advice. It is just advice, not a legally binding agreement.
I can't rip the kids out of the house
Even if the kids are in immediate danger? What ages are the children?
Everyone is just on board with the plan of letting our house go, divorce, split time with the kids and once all that is done she will be happy again and the problem will go away.
Yes, but, until the problem goes away, she should not be on her own with the children.
I hope some of what I said makes sense. It is just the ramblings of a concerned cyber citizen, but there were things in your post that jumped out at me and worried me.
I hope everything goes well for you today.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1
know only to well
I agree 100% with Smacked's assessment “BULLSHIT”!
Below is almost the exactsame as my story with my alcoholic wife, the last few years. Due to my own denial and drinking behavior, I “let it go on in my house” too long.
In March of this year we had started marriage counseling because of an affair, an alcoholic haze may have contributed to it but it does not excuse it, at that time I still had not acknowledge the extent of her drinking because of comparing it to myself, at that age (she is 8 years younger than me), and my current pattern at the time, in addition, she hid her “extra drinking” from me very well. She would slam vodka at a wayside not far from home, drive home, quickly pour a glass of wine and drink a glass or two during dinner and throughout the evening. However I was becoming aware that her drinking was increasing and accelerating, fortunately in April on her own she came out to me and asked to help her get better. She was tried of being sick.
Had she not agreed to the marriage counseling, she would have been out and left to her own devices, and I would have done everything in my power to have 100% custody of the kids; why would I let my kids spend time with an adulterous alcoholic? My kids do not need to see it, it is my duty to protect them and guide them to a moral life path, and above all she would not have deserved the reward of having the kids in her life, furthermore I do not need or want that behavior in my life.
Today she has been sober for 100+days and is serious about her recovery, despite insurance battles to cover inpatient treatment and having to settle on Intensive Outpatient, which she is disappointed with the quality, mostly she gets upset because those there are just doing it for legal reasons and not serious about recovery, she does not feel comfortable putting herself out there still a bit of the alcoholic victim thing going on. She just got a sponsor a couple weeks ago, has several AA friends and goes to AA daily.
As for home, her relationship is improving with all of us especially our oldest (8 years old); she is more involved with family events and is recognizing our various opportunities to reconnect. I hit Al Anon couple times a month, which has affirmed what I know to be right, provide great hindsight, and tools to help guide our future choices.
Now she does get one fall, to do more “research” as she calls it, but the next day she had better get on the wagon or her research will show her that she has lost me, the kids and she will be out on her own with nothing! I may be powerless to stop her from drinking but I have a responsibility to control what is allowed near me and the kids.
She is not a bad person just made bad choices in the past. I hope she continues to make the right choices because it will be easier and the boundaries are set; as the slogan go “say what you mean and mean what you say.” Alcoholics do not like uncertainty. It is because I love her with all my heart that I have taken this stance, willing to forgive the affair, work the programs, Al Anon, AA, counseling, etc. You can’t dwell on the past, you can’t change it anyways you can only learn from it. I study the past only to look forward.
If she fails it will only be natural that my heart will heavy for a time but the knowledge of doing the right thing will lift that eventually and we all will be better for it. It is up to her.
Below is almost the exactsame as my story with my alcoholic wife, the last few years. Due to my own denial and drinking behavior, I “let it go on in my house” too long.
Originally Posted by justjakethomas
..., there certainly have been some compromising situations for the kids but other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point. ...will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time. She has more hours logged in the chair smoking and drinking than she does with me or the kids. . Errrr
In March of this year we had started marriage counseling because of an affair, an alcoholic haze may have contributed to it but it does not excuse it, at that time I still had not acknowledge the extent of her drinking because of comparing it to myself, at that age (she is 8 years younger than me), and my current pattern at the time, in addition, she hid her “extra drinking” from me very well. She would slam vodka at a wayside not far from home, drive home, quickly pour a glass of wine and drink a glass or two during dinner and throughout the evening. However I was becoming aware that her drinking was increasing and accelerating, fortunately in April on her own she came out to me and asked to help her get better. She was tried of being sick.
Had she not agreed to the marriage counseling, she would have been out and left to her own devices, and I would have done everything in my power to have 100% custody of the kids; why would I let my kids spend time with an adulterous alcoholic? My kids do not need to see it, it is my duty to protect them and guide them to a moral life path, and above all she would not have deserved the reward of having the kids in her life, furthermore I do not need or want that behavior in my life.
Today she has been sober for 100+days and is serious about her recovery, despite insurance battles to cover inpatient treatment and having to settle on Intensive Outpatient, which she is disappointed with the quality, mostly she gets upset because those there are just doing it for legal reasons and not serious about recovery, she does not feel comfortable putting herself out there still a bit of the alcoholic victim thing going on. She just got a sponsor a couple weeks ago, has several AA friends and goes to AA daily.
As for home, her relationship is improving with all of us especially our oldest (8 years old); she is more involved with family events and is recognizing our various opportunities to reconnect. I hit Al Anon couple times a month, which has affirmed what I know to be right, provide great hindsight, and tools to help guide our future choices.
Now she does get one fall, to do more “research” as she calls it, but the next day she had better get on the wagon or her research will show her that she has lost me, the kids and she will be out on her own with nothing! I may be powerless to stop her from drinking but I have a responsibility to control what is allowed near me and the kids.
She is not a bad person just made bad choices in the past. I hope she continues to make the right choices because it will be easier and the boundaries are set; as the slogan go “say what you mean and mean what you say.” Alcoholics do not like uncertainty. It is because I love her with all my heart that I have taken this stance, willing to forgive the affair, work the programs, Al Anon, AA, counseling, etc. You can’t dwell on the past, you can’t change it anyways you can only learn from it. I study the past only to look forward.
If she fails it will only be natural that my heart will heavy for a time but the knowledge of doing the right thing will lift that eventually and we all will be better for it. It is up to her.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 20
Wow, I have to say I really appreciate you checking in, I did have the session today and unfortunately it didn't go the way I thought it was. I just got home and will likely read through the other responses beyond this and try to post something in a bit. But until then the dr. basically said that there is alcohol addiction with her but he basically said that my obsession with her drinking is a big part of the problem and I need to let it go because it is causing more harm than good yada yada yada. I spent an hour with him after she left and basically told him I am really having a problem understanding why he doesn’t feel like this is something that has taken over our lives. We talked for an hour and I am still confused, with her there his message is its alcohol abuse but is basically driven as a coping mechanism to deal with our problems. I have no idea what to do but am doing much better, I really wish I had someone here that I could talk to and will go to an Alanon mtg likely on Monday. Gotta run for a bit to chat with her on the back porch while she is on her 4th beer and likely 20th cigarettes.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
Wow. Inaction. I wish I could say I was surprised 
I feel very badly for your kids who have no choice but to be stuck in this situation.
My drinking was a "coping mechanism" too, and it almost killed me, and hurt everyone in my life. WHO CARES why she drinks? WHO CARES what it's called, 'addiction' 'ism' 'dependency' 'abuse'... it's detrimental to her well being, yours, your kids' and probably anyone in your area if she's drunk all the time and driving around. Is that not enough for something to change? (Obviously not... ). Since you haven't addressed most of the questions people have pointedly asked you.. please answer this one. What would it take for you to protect your children? Does she need to get in a drunken accident at home, on the road? Does she need to neglect them to a point that someone outside the house intervenes? I really honestly wonder what more it would take to force some action in this situation.
Zero action, zero boundaries, zero consequences... an active drunk's dream come true. Those poor kiddos.
I feel very badly for your kids who have no choice but to be stuck in this situation.
My drinking was a "coping mechanism" too, and it almost killed me, and hurt everyone in my life. WHO CARES why she drinks? WHO CARES what it's called, 'addiction' 'ism' 'dependency' 'abuse'... it's detrimental to her well being, yours, your kids' and probably anyone in your area if she's drunk all the time and driving around. Is that not enough for something to change? (Obviously not... ). Since you haven't addressed most of the questions people have pointedly asked you.. please answer this one. What would it take for you to protect your children? Does she need to get in a drunken accident at home, on the road? Does she need to neglect them to a point that someone outside the house intervenes? I really honestly wonder what more it would take to force some action in this situation.
Zero action, zero boundaries, zero consequences... an active drunk's dream come true. Those poor kiddos.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Yes yes yes yes yes!! I know this feeling too!!!
Being told by his friends that I'm "controlling, manipulative" simply because I said, stop drinking or you're gone. Having him tell me "my friends are tired of hearing about it" - oh, you mean your drinking buddy "friends"?
Having NO one call him on this junk, even though more than once, he blacked out and did coke. And his tolerance had gone through the roof-I'm talking several cocktails at the bar, then an entire 12 pack when he got home! Blackouts, vomiting, binges...and I'm the only one who notices. LUCKY ME
Look, with family and "friends" who act like this, is it any wonder these people are alcoholics? It's called "enabling" and because I put my foot down and refused to do it, I got labeled the bad guy. When really I'm the one who actually gives a * enough about him to refuse to participate in his destruction.
Because I get mad, frustrated and everything else, I am the one who's portrayed as crazy by everyone else. Well I finally said ENOUGH!-I don't need this messed up Alice in Wonderland funhouse world where my xabf is allowed to be a frat boy forever and no one will force him to grow the * up, and instead I'm called all kinds of ridiculous things by people who aren't even mentally healthy or functional enough to clean my house.
Oh yes, I can TOTALLY relate to both of you.
Being told by his friends that I'm "controlling, manipulative" simply because I said, stop drinking or you're gone. Having him tell me "my friends are tired of hearing about it" - oh, you mean your drinking buddy "friends"?
Having NO one call him on this junk, even though more than once, he blacked out and did coke. And his tolerance had gone through the roof-I'm talking several cocktails at the bar, then an entire 12 pack when he got home! Blackouts, vomiting, binges...and I'm the only one who notices. LUCKY ME
Look, with family and "friends" who act like this, is it any wonder these people are alcoholics? It's called "enabling" and because I put my foot down and refused to do it, I got labeled the bad guy. When really I'm the one who actually gives a * enough about him to refuse to participate in his destruction.
Because I get mad, frustrated and everything else, I am the one who's portrayed as crazy by everyone else. Well I finally said ENOUGH!-I don't need this messed up Alice in Wonderland funhouse world where my xabf is allowed to be a frat boy forever and no one will force him to grow the * up, and instead I'm called all kinds of ridiculous things by people who aren't even mentally healthy or functional enough to clean my house.
Oh yes, I can TOTALLY relate to both of you.
Originally Posted by kv816
I kind of know how you're feeling. Your last statement about feeling like you dreamed up the situation and feel like it's simply just problems of your own you need to fix are thoughts I have had many times (and do still have now).
I've wondered many times how it is NO one else seems to see his addiction. I remember his sister told me once that he didn't go to rehab for rehab....he went to get the courts off his back. And then the day he got out of rehab she showed up at the house with a 12 pack for him. I stood there thinking, "you've gotta be kidding me!! Two days ago you said he needed rehab and now here you are buying him beer!" Or one night he was tired of sitting at home and wanted to go to the bar. I said absolutely not, can't have my car. Here comes his other sister with her car, threw him the keys and said "have fun!". I was shocked! Here he is on probation for his third DUI and you hand him your keys to go to the bar!?!?! Or about a month ago when he pretty much told me to take a long walk off a short pier because I refused to "save" his other sister from a DUI by giving him a ride home from a wild (drunken) party.
It'll send your head spinning.....I can listen to someone say things like this and think "well, yeah, you did the right thing, you're not crazy". But here's this family and friends of his thinking I'M the one with the problem. Didn't matter what I said, what I did, I was always fighting with everyone else. And then I'd question myself--well, if the people closest to him don't see it, then maybe he doesn't have a problem? Maybe it is all just me?
And that makes it hard, at least it does for me. I didn't know if I was coming or going. I'd try to help, get shot out of the water and feel bad. Give in that maybe I am wrong, get drawn into his quacking, leave and feel bad for falling for it (again). For me, what it boiled down to was co-dependency. I was always trying to "save" him from his mistakes and his errors. I wanted to make EVERYONE else see what I saw. I mean, if I refused to give him a ride and someone else had to then they'd wonder why I didn't do it and maybe see that he's got a problem and they'd be on my side to fix it. You know?
I have considered marriage counseling. But that's a two way street too. Right now (and for the longest time) he thinks the "problems" are mine. So by doing counseling all he'll see it as is a personal attack on him. All I'm doing is getting someone on "my side" to attack him. All I want is for him to live "my" lifestyle. And I realized that my intentions for counseling was for someone else to tell him what I already know....that he's an addict and needs help. My intentions are still trying to "fix" his problems.
He's standing at the bridge, ready to jump. I've tried to talk him down. But I can't. It's not my job. Mom always asked if my friends jumped off a bridge would I too. I always said no. In trying to fix xabf's addiction all I was doing was standing at the bridge, staring at the rocks below. I'm not going to jump off that bridge too.
I got a chuckle out of myself last night. My 5 year old has a cold and she came to me and asked if I'd pick the booger out of her nose. I laughed, said "I love you baby but NO!".
I've learned through my OWN recovery to be able to look at xabf and say the same thing. xabf is asking the same thing of me by expecting me to be okay with his drinking, refusing giving in to counseling and so on and so forth. He's asking me to jump off the bridge with him. I love him....but no.
I've wondered many times how it is NO one else seems to see his addiction. I remember his sister told me once that he didn't go to rehab for rehab....he went to get the courts off his back. And then the day he got out of rehab she showed up at the house with a 12 pack for him. I stood there thinking, "you've gotta be kidding me!! Two days ago you said he needed rehab and now here you are buying him beer!" Or one night he was tired of sitting at home and wanted to go to the bar. I said absolutely not, can't have my car. Here comes his other sister with her car, threw him the keys and said "have fun!". I was shocked! Here he is on probation for his third DUI and you hand him your keys to go to the bar!?!?! Or about a month ago when he pretty much told me to take a long walk off a short pier because I refused to "save" his other sister from a DUI by giving him a ride home from a wild (drunken) party.
It'll send your head spinning.....I can listen to someone say things like this and think "well, yeah, you did the right thing, you're not crazy". But here's this family and friends of his thinking I'M the one with the problem. Didn't matter what I said, what I did, I was always fighting with everyone else. And then I'd question myself--well, if the people closest to him don't see it, then maybe he doesn't have a problem? Maybe it is all just me?
And that makes it hard, at least it does for me. I didn't know if I was coming or going. I'd try to help, get shot out of the water and feel bad. Give in that maybe I am wrong, get drawn into his quacking, leave and feel bad for falling for it (again). For me, what it boiled down to was co-dependency. I was always trying to "save" him from his mistakes and his errors. I wanted to make EVERYONE else see what I saw. I mean, if I refused to give him a ride and someone else had to then they'd wonder why I didn't do it and maybe see that he's got a problem and they'd be on my side to fix it. You know?
I have considered marriage counseling. But that's a two way street too. Right now (and for the longest time) he thinks the "problems" are mine. So by doing counseling all he'll see it as is a personal attack on him. All I'm doing is getting someone on "my side" to attack him. All I want is for him to live "my" lifestyle. And I realized that my intentions for counseling was for someone else to tell him what I already know....that he's an addict and needs help. My intentions are still trying to "fix" his problems.
He's standing at the bridge, ready to jump. I've tried to talk him down. But I can't. It's not my job. Mom always asked if my friends jumped off a bridge would I too. I always said no. In trying to fix xabf's addiction all I was doing was standing at the bridge, staring at the rocks below. I'm not going to jump off that bridge too.
I got a chuckle out of myself last night. My 5 year old has a cold and she came to me and asked if I'd pick the booger out of her nose. I laughed, said "I love you baby but NO!".
I've learned through my OWN recovery to be able to look at xabf and say the same thing. xabf is asking the same thing of me by expecting me to be okay with his drinking, refusing giving in to counseling and so on and so forth. He's asking me to jump off the bridge with him. I love him....but no.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by justjakethomas
But until then the dr. basically said that there is alcohol addiction with her but he basically said that my obsession with her drinking is a big part of the problem and I need to let it go because it is causing more harm than good yada yada yada.
I can't clean someone else's side of the street, but I can sure get out the broom and sweep up my own.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
((Jake))
Maybe you should take some time with the counselor and talk about you, and your feelings. Don't talk about your wife, just focus on you.
She can't make you feel anything you don't let her, no one can.
Focusing on her, her drinking, her family, is giving them the keys to the car to drive you straight into crazytown.
Try to detach...let her be and do what she is going to do anyway.
Be and become the one, reliable, strong, healthy parent your children need.
She doesn't hold the keys to your future.
You do.
Maybe you should take some time with the counselor and talk about you, and your feelings. Don't talk about your wife, just focus on you.
She can't make you feel anything you don't let her, no one can.
Focusing on her, her drinking, her family, is giving them the keys to the car to drive you straight into crazytown.
Try to detach...let her be and do what she is going to do anyway.
Be and become the one, reliable, strong, healthy parent your children need.
She doesn't hold the keys to your future.
You do.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 75
I wonder if my obession with being proved right, my obsession with figuring out why, and my obession to try to control the outcome prevented and distracted me from taking the action required to protect myself?
What role does your obession play in distracting you from taking action to reduce the effects her choice to drink has on you and your kids?
If worrying about her hasn't worked, what will?
You are trying to impose a mandate that she can't she can't she can't.
She can.
How you react to it, what mindset you cultivate, what actions you take, those are the only choices you have in the matter.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but you seem unhappy. If being obessed with changing someone else had worked for me, after spending years living with such obessions myself, trust me, I would be putting up a post right now telling you to stick with the obession because it would pan out. I lost years of my life to obessing and hoping someone else would change. It didn't work for me. Your mileage may vary.
What role does your obession play in distracting you from taking action to reduce the effects her choice to drink has on you and your kids?
But until then the dr. basically said that there is alcohol addiction with her but he basically said that my obsession with her drinking is a big part of the problem and I need to let it go because it is causing more harm than good yada yada yada. I
You are trying to impose a mandate that she can't she can't she can't.
She can.
How you react to it, what mindset you cultivate, what actions you take, those are the only choices you have in the matter.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but you seem unhappy. If being obessed with changing someone else had worked for me, after spending years living with such obessions myself, trust me, I would be putting up a post right now telling you to stick with the obession because it would pan out. I lost years of my life to obessing and hoping someone else would change. It didn't work for me. Your mileage may vary.
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