I guess she doesn't have a problem, why is the so confusing?
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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Originally Posted by GiveLove 
Jake, you already understand everything you need to understand. If you're waiting for any of this to make sense, then you will wait a long time. The nature of active addiction is that it does not make sense.
1. Your wife wants to continue her current drinking patterns and will do anything to be able to do so. Lie about what doctors say, blame you, get her parents on her side, prey on your guilt, etc.
2. You aren't willing to live like this any longer, and are unwilling to force your children to live in this kind of environment either.
That's the whole story. The rest is just I said, he said, she said, they said, she didn't because, I didn't because...........just extra words.
The whole story is this: She is an alcoholic who is not yet ready to quit.
You are a man who doesn't want to live in her chaos any more.
There is nothing else to understand.
I wish you luck in counseling but more than that, I wish you the clarity and strength to see that you already have the answers. You just need to stop trying to dodge them.
Lots of great advice above, especially from our alcoholic members in recovery, bless them.
Al-Anon helped me a lot. I too found lots of excuses not to do it, but when I finally got help, life got exponentially better.
Good luck!
1. Your wife wants to continue her current drinking patterns and will do anything to be able to do so. Lie about what doctors say, blame you, get her parents on her side, prey on your guilt, etc.
2. You aren't willing to live like this any longer, and are unwilling to force your children to live in this kind of environment either.
That's the whole story. The rest is just I said, he said, she said, they said, she didn't because, I didn't because...........just extra words.
The whole story is this: She is an alcoholic who is not yet ready to quit.
You are a man who doesn't want to live in her chaos any more.
There is nothing else to understand.
I wish you luck in counseling but more than that, I wish you the clarity and strength to see that you already have the answers. You just need to stop trying to dodge them.
Lots of great advice above, especially from our alcoholic members in recovery, bless them.
Al-Anon helped me a lot. I too found lots of excuses not to do it, but when I finally got help, life got exponentially better.
Good luck!
#2 Well you have to realize that unless I have a bunch of money and an attorney and want to drag my kids through more drama I really don't have much choice in for the kids. I will have them half the time but without me being able to convince her and her parents (which are really 2/3's majority) that she has a problem and unless she gets help I should take a stand on keeping the kids away from her. This seems impossible, there certainly have been some compromising situations for the kids but other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point. She smokes and drinks when they are at school, showers before they get home and will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time. She has more hours logged in the chair smoking and drinking than she does with me or the kids. Partially due to working from home during the day but you get the point I hope about custody, it isn't a situation where there is extensive neglect or danger but it certainly impacts how she cares and spends time with them ie. you can't leave the house to go to the park with a beer in your hands.
Again I appreciate the feedback, it certainly re-enforces what I have learned from a few Al Anon meetings and a ton of reading. It just seems like it shouldn't be this difficult. I understand just how powerful this is but if this dr. is really going to tell me that it isn't a problem or wont be once the stress and happiness goes away I have lost my entire battle for the kids (without going the legal route). Errrr
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other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point.
I guess I was a kid who, I suppose, my mother thought "really wasn't exposed" to the negative effects of my dad's drinking.
She was so insanely wrong. I beg you to re-read this...
I will have them half the time but without me being able to convince her and her parents (which are really 2/3's majority) that she has a problem and unless she gets help I should take a stand on keeping the kids away from her. This seems impossible, there certainly have been some compromising situations for the kids but other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point. She smokes and drinks when they are at school, showers before they get home and will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time. She has more hours logged in the chair smoking and drinking than she does with me or the kids. Partially due to working from home during the day but you get the point I hope about custody, it isn't a situation where there is extensive neglect or danger but it certainly impacts how she cares and spends time with them ie. you can't leave the house to go to the park with a beer in your hands.
...and ask you why you wouldn't fight for sole custody? Who is protecting your kids if not you, the sober parent?? Seriously! Are you afraid? I can tell you something - in spite of whatever rose-colored glasses my mother chose to wear - we kids - all 5 of us- we were often very very afraid. And we were kids!!! I remember being afraid because I knew something was so wrong and yet no adult was talking to me about it, or calling it what it is: alcoholism or reassuring me that I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it!
The very definition of alcohol addiction is a person cannot control when or how much they drink. She may have what you percieve as a manageable pattern and she hasn't burned the house down accidently....YET. But this is a progressive disease. If her parents are so sure she doesn't have a problem then let her go live with them and they can (if they are sober!) supervise visitation.
It's THAT serious!!
peace-
b
I guess I was a kid who, I suppose, my mother thought "really wasn't exposed" to the negative effects of my dad's drinking.
She was so insanely wrong. I beg you to re-read this...
I will have them half the time but without me being able to convince her and her parents (which are really 2/3's majority) that she has a problem and unless she gets help I should take a stand on keeping the kids away from her. This seems impossible, there certainly have been some compromising situations for the kids but other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point. She smokes and drinks when they are at school, showers before they get home and will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time. She has more hours logged in the chair smoking and drinking than she does with me or the kids. Partially due to working from home during the day but you get the point I hope about custody, it isn't a situation where there is extensive neglect or danger but it certainly impacts how she cares and spends time with them ie. you can't leave the house to go to the park with a beer in your hands.
...and ask you why you wouldn't fight for sole custody? Who is protecting your kids if not you, the sober parent?? Seriously! Are you afraid? I can tell you something - in spite of whatever rose-colored glasses my mother chose to wear - we kids - all 5 of us- we were often very very afraid. And we were kids!!! I remember being afraid because I knew something was so wrong and yet no adult was talking to me about it, or calling it what it is: alcoholism or reassuring me that I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it!
The very definition of alcohol addiction is a person cannot control when or how much they drink. She may have what you percieve as a manageable pattern and she hasn't burned the house down accidently....YET. But this is a progressive disease. If her parents are so sure she doesn't have a problem then let her go live with them and they can (if they are sober!) supervise visitation.
It's THAT serious!!
peace-
b
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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Originally Posted by Thumper
Bernadette - thank you for that post. I wish I could have read it many years ago.
Jake, I can relate to the spot that you are in. I'm wishing you strength and clarity. I'm still floundering around a bit but I have started al-anon. I really believe that we must first become healthy ourselves. We fix our life - our spouses fix theirs. To try and do anything else is just spinning our wheels and getting nowhere (or actually moving backwards).
Jake, I can relate to the spot that you are in. I'm wishing you strength and clarity. I'm still floundering around a bit but I have started al-anon. I really believe that we must first become healthy ourselves. We fix our life - our spouses fix theirs. To try and do anything else is just spinning our wheels and getting nowhere (or actually moving backwards).
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
but... what if she never agrees that it's a "problem", and never quits drinking?
I was by NO means thinking you'd leave your children alone with an active drunk.. I'm sorry that I wrongly assumed that you'd keep them with you.
I don't understand why you're leaving it up to an already seemingly less than competent therapist to determine the fate of the rest of this issue? So if he says "Ok, wife.. go drink and get drunk and relieve that stress you're under.. you deserve it! Drink and drink!!" then you're cool with it? What if he says "wife you are alcohol dependent and should consider a treatment program to address it" and she tells him to go to hell and keeps drinking. How is any of this in any way dictated by a random counselor that doesn't even know about addiction?
At what point do YOU determine what is ok for your life, and at what point are your kids protected?
I was by NO means thinking you'd leave your children alone with an active drunk.. I'm sorry that I wrongly assumed that you'd keep them with you.
I don't understand why you're leaving it up to an already seemingly less than competent therapist to determine the fate of the rest of this issue? So if he says "Ok, wife.. go drink and get drunk and relieve that stress you're under.. you deserve it! Drink and drink!!" then you're cool with it? What if he says "wife you are alcohol dependent and should consider a treatment program to address it" and she tells him to go to hell and keeps drinking. How is any of this in any way dictated by a random counselor that doesn't even know about addiction?
At what point do YOU determine what is ok for your life, and at what point are your kids protected?
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Location: Boise, Idaho
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Originally Posted by Bernadette
other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point.
I guess I was a kid who, I suppose, my mother thought "really wasn't exposed" to the negative effects of my dad's drinking.
She was so insanely wrong. I beg you to re-read this...
I will have them half the time but without me being able to convince her and her parents (which are really 2/3's majority) that she has a problem and unless she gets help I should take a stand on keeping the kids away from her. This seems impossible, there certainly have been some compromising situations for the kids but other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point. She smokes and drinks when they are at school, showers before they get home and will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time. She has more hours logged in the chair smoking and drinking than she does with me or the kids. Partially due to working from home during the day but you get the point I hope about custody, it isn't a situation where there is extensive neglect or danger but it certainly impacts how she cares and spends time with them ie. you can't leave the house to go to the park with a beer in your hands.
...and ask you why you wouldn't fight for sole custody? Who is protecting your kids if not you, the sober parent?? Seriously! Are you afraid? I can tell you something - in spite of whatever rose-colored glasses my mother chose to wear - we kids - all 5 of us- we were often very very afraid. And we were kids!!! I remember being afraid because I knew something was so wrong and yet no adult was talking to me about it, or calling it what it is: alcoholism or reassuring me that I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it!
The very definition of alcohol addiction is a person cannot control when or how much they drink! She may have what you percieve as a manageable pattern and she hasn't burned the house down accidently....YET!!! But this is a progressive disease. If her parents are so sure she doesn't have a problem then let her go live with them and they can (if they are sober!) supervise visitation.
It's THAT serious!!
peace-
b
I guess I was a kid who, I suppose, my mother thought "really wasn't exposed" to the negative effects of my dad's drinking.
She was so insanely wrong. I beg you to re-read this...
I will have them half the time but without me being able to convince her and her parents (which are really 2/3's majority) that she has a problem and unless she gets help I should take a stand on keeping the kids away from her. This seems impossible, there certainly have been some compromising situations for the kids but other than the times she spends out in the corner of by the garage smoking and drinking the kids are really too exposed at this point. She smokes and drinks when they are at school, showers before they get home and will often drink a few during the afternoon / evening when they are around but when they are in bed boom its drinking time. She has more hours logged in the chair smoking and drinking than she does with me or the kids. Partially due to working from home during the day but you get the point I hope about custody, it isn't a situation where there is extensive neglect or danger but it certainly impacts how she cares and spends time with them ie. you can't leave the house to go to the park with a beer in your hands.
...and ask you why you wouldn't fight for sole custody? Who is protecting your kids if not you, the sober parent?? Seriously! Are you afraid? I can tell you something - in spite of whatever rose-colored glasses my mother chose to wear - we kids - all 5 of us- we were often very very afraid. And we were kids!!! I remember being afraid because I knew something was so wrong and yet no adult was talking to me about it, or calling it what it is: alcoholism or reassuring me that I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it!
The very definition of alcohol addiction is a person cannot control when or how much they drink! She may have what you percieve as a manageable pattern and she hasn't burned the house down accidently....YET!!! But this is a progressive disease. If her parents are so sure she doesn't have a problem then let her go live with them and they can (if they are sober!) supervise visitation.
It's THAT serious!!
peace-
b
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by smacked
but... what if she never agrees that it's a "problem", and never quits drinking?
I was by NO means thinking you'd leave your children alone with an active drunk.. I'm sorry that I wrongly assumed that you'd keep them with you.
I don't understand why you're leaving it up to an already seemingly less than competent therapist to determine the fate of the rest of this issue? So if he says "Ok, wife.. go drink and get drunk and relieve that stress you're under.. you deserve it! Drink and drink!!" then you're cool with it? What if he says "wife you are alcohol dependent and should consider a treatment program to address it" and she tells him to go to hell and keeps drinking. How is any of this in any way dictated by a random counselor that doesn't even know about addiction?
At what point do YOU determine what is ok for your life, and at what point are your kids protected?
I was by NO means thinking you'd leave your children alone with an active drunk.. I'm sorry that I wrongly assumed that you'd keep them with you.
I don't understand why you're leaving it up to an already seemingly less than competent therapist to determine the fate of the rest of this issue? So if he says "Ok, wife.. go drink and get drunk and relieve that stress you're under.. you deserve it! Drink and drink!!" then you're cool with it? What if he says "wife you are alcohol dependent and should consider a treatment program to address it" and she tells him to go to hell and keeps drinking. How is any of this in any way dictated by a random counselor that doesn't even know about addiction?
At what point do YOU determine what is ok for your life, and at what point are your kids protected?
I do know that if he says she has a problem and needs therapy that she will go, that is all I need to talk with the parents
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
You WANT your children to have a healthy loving mother.
Unfortunately right now they don't.
Unless she stops, and does some recovery work, she won't become the mother you want her to be.
A counselor is nice and helpful, but, you are giving all the "power" to him. Yes, he can advise you, but, he isn't the end all get all.
The mother you describe her being now is AFFECTING your children. Those patterns and actions are not healthy. As the child of a drinking parent,
I beg you to re-read Bernadettes post...she summed it up completely what is occuring with your children wether you are aware of it or not.
Document the amount of time she spends drinking...take a picture with a cell phone if you have to, set a camera up and record her actions. It would be hard to out lawyer actual proof.
I know you don't want sole custody..but, that may be what it has to be. Does she even realize she might lose her children????
As Bernadette said.."it is that serious"
Unfortunately right now they don't.
Unless she stops, and does some recovery work, she won't become the mother you want her to be.
A counselor is nice and helpful, but, you are giving all the "power" to him. Yes, he can advise you, but, he isn't the end all get all.
The mother you describe her being now is AFFECTING your children. Those patterns and actions are not healthy. As the child of a drinking parent,
I beg you to re-read Bernadettes post...she summed it up completely what is occuring with your children wether you are aware of it or not.
Document the amount of time she spends drinking...take a picture with a cell phone if you have to, set a camera up and record her actions. It would be hard to out lawyer actual proof.
I know you don't want sole custody..but, that may be what it has to be. Does she even realize she might lose her children????
As Bernadette said.."it is that serious"
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
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I don't have the money to fight for the kids, I am a new business owner and her parents are loaded and will out lawyer me anyday. That is why we are back to the importance of the counselers evaluation. I understand the progressive nature of this, that is proven itself already. It is difficult for anyone really to see enough now with the problem of her being a single parent. Likely tough to understand but in reality right now without anyone on board with her drinking problem it would be useless to get the support I need to take full custody.
Jake, I say all these things with compassion for your situation, I do, because I know very well the fog you are in...living with an alcoholic can upset your thinking so much that you don't know which way is up. So I am glad you are here, and seeking answers and help!
Whether or not her parents will fight your lawyer, or she will be a crazy single-mom, or any of that - it is not REALITY! You're futurizing and projecting and trying to control outcomes.
The reality is: you CAN fight for sole custody if you choose to.
Stop your head from spinning all the worst-case scenarios and maybe just go speak to a lawyer. Get the facts. Make a plan. And go from there. One step, one day at a time. But don't give up on doing the right thing for your munchkins before you've even tried!! You're not taking the kids away from her- she can still see them, maybe see them a lot - but maybe it will be supervised by the court or her parents, etc. Just go find out the actual possibilities! Why should she be protected from one of the number 1 consequences of her drinking???
I want the kids to have a healthy loving mother.
You cannot control this. If any of us could control this with our alcoholics we wouldn't need this place. But you can be the healthy loving father that they need and what does the healthy parent do? Protects his children, fights for their safety and mental health, and talks to them about what is REALLY going on.
Good luck!! Keep posting! You're not alone.
peace,.
b
Jake, I say all these things with compassion for your situation, I do, because I know very well the fog you are in...living with an alcoholic can upset your thinking so much that you don't know which way is up. So I am glad you are here, and seeking answers and help!
Whether or not her parents will fight your lawyer, or she will be a crazy single-mom, or any of that - it is not REALITY! You're futurizing and projecting and trying to control outcomes.
The reality is: you CAN fight for sole custody if you choose to.
Stop your head from spinning all the worst-case scenarios and maybe just go speak to a lawyer. Get the facts. Make a plan. And go from there. One step, one day at a time. But don't give up on doing the right thing for your munchkins before you've even tried!! You're not taking the kids away from her- she can still see them, maybe see them a lot - but maybe it will be supervised by the court or her parents, etc. Just go find out the actual possibilities! Why should she be protected from one of the number 1 consequences of her drinking???
I want the kids to have a healthy loving mother.
You cannot control this. If any of us could control this with our alcoholics we wouldn't need this place. But you can be the healthy loving father that they need and what does the healthy parent do? Protects his children, fights for their safety and mental health, and talks to them about what is REALLY going on.
Good luck!! Keep posting! You're not alone.
peace,.
b
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Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
Hi justjake,
Toby Rice Drews is a nationally known expert on addiction and addiction families and she gives telephone counseling.
She wrote a book called "Getting Them Sober" which many of us refer to often here.
She has a website: Getting Them Sober- Recovery Communications which contains contact information if you would like to schedule telephone counseling with her.
I understand that you have a high regard for your marriage counselor. But he ethically should not counsel either of you individually. To do so would compromise confidentiality in myriad ways.
Good luck. You are doing well fighting your way out of the box you've been living in.
Bluejay
Toby Rice Drews is a nationally known expert on addiction and addiction families and she gives telephone counseling.
She wrote a book called "Getting Them Sober" which many of us refer to often here.
She has a website: Getting Them Sober- Recovery Communications which contains contact information if you would like to schedule telephone counseling with her.
I understand that you have a high regard for your marriage counselor. But he ethically should not counsel either of you individually. To do so would compromise confidentiality in myriad ways.
Good luck. You are doing well fighting your way out of the box you've been living in.
Bluejay
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I raised by alcoholics who lived on wishful thinking all day long...always hoping the other would change, or specifically, hoping that someone/something would FORCE the other to change. No one ever said, "hey, those kids deserve better than that." Instead they said, "If only he/she would change into what I want them to be......" I was fed a steady diet of excuses, blame, and power trips all my life, and it took me decades to recover.
I would have given everything I had for a father who was willing to protect me.
I would have given everything I had for a father who was willing to protect me.
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Posts: 20
Originally Posted by GiveLove
I raised by alcoholics who lived on wishful thinking all day long...always hoping the other would change, or specifically, hoping that someone/something would FORCE the other to change. No one ever said, "hey, those kids deserve better than that." Instead they said, "If only he/she would change into what I want them to be......" I was fed a steady diet of excuses, blame, and power trips all my life, and it took me decades to recover.
I would have given everything I had for a father who was willing to protect me.
I would have given everything I had for a father who was willing to protect me.
Anyway even though I know that I am an absolutely great father, everyone knows this I would say that this certainly offers some good perspective. Again thanks.
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I have no interest in getting into any legal battle unless I have to. As I have told her, I just want her happy again so she can be the great mom she used to be.
xx
Again, keep mind, I don't want sole custody if I can avoid it, I want the kids to have a healthy loving mother.
xx
her parents are loaded and will out lawyer me anyday
xx
Well you have to realize that unless I have a bunch of money and an attorney and want to drag my kids through more drama I really don't have much choice
xx
Again, keep mind, I don't want sole custody if I can avoid it, I want the kids to have a healthy loving mother.
xx
her parents are loaded and will out lawyer me anyday
xx
Well you have to realize that unless I have a bunch of money and an attorney and want to drag my kids through more drama I really don't have much choice
I felt that the only way I had to salvage a relationship with an alcoholic that I loved very much was to hope things would change magically and keep my head down.
I mistakenly thought if everyone else said it was temporary or things were functioning OK then nothing would need to be fixed.
I mistakenly thought if someone else said there was no problem, maybe I was nuts and there was no problem. I tried to beleive that. All the lies my alcoholic lover told me, I wanted to beleive them. I tried to beleive them.
I mistakenly thought the only way to protect ME, the very fabrice of who I was, was to sit and wish and hope and not rock the boat too much because I was so afraid of this rocking boat, I was so afraid all the time, i was so afraid I would fall out of the boat. I didn't want him to fall out of the boat. I got confused. I thought I could protect me by protecting him.
What I couldn't quite grasp was that I was in gale force winds, holding on for my life, worrying about rocking the boat. It was a topsy turvey and I felt like down was up. I had help co-create the environment by acting like I accepted things I felt were really deeply unacceptable. I told myself an emotionally absent partner was better than no partner at all. I felt helpless.
Worst of all, I felt like over time I had agreed to give up the right to say "no, you can't do that around me any more".
That has been my experience. It has also been my experience that an active alcoholic makes choices based upon "What Do I Need To Do To Make Sure I Can Still Drink?"
Only you can make choices based upon what you need, and what your children need.
Blessed Be,
Covington
- - - -
. . . and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. (Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche)
Last edited by covington; 09-03-2009 at 12:35 AM.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
You really did a good job of explaining how I felt too. Thank you for your post. I'm trying to get past all that.
Originally Posted by covington
I mistakenly thought the only way to protect ME, the very fabrice of who I was, was to sit and wish and hope and not rock the boat too much because I was so afraid of this rocking boat, I was so afraid all the time, i was so afraid I would fall out of the boat. I didn't want him to fall out of the boat. I got confused. I thought I could protect me by protecting him.
What I couldn't quite grasp was that I was in gale force winds, holding on for my life, worrying about rocking the boat. It was a topsy turvey and I felt like down was up. I had help co-create the environment by acting like I accepted things I felt were really deeply unacceptable. I told myself an emotionally absent partner was better than no partner at all. I felt helpless.
Worst of all, I felt like over time I had agreed to give up the right to say "no, you can't do that around me any more".
What I couldn't quite grasp was that I was in gale force winds, holding on for my life, worrying about rocking the boat. It was a topsy turvey and I felt like down was up. I had help co-create the environment by acting like I accepted things I felt were really deeply unacceptable. I told myself an emotionally absent partner was better than no partner at all. I felt helpless.
Worst of all, I felt like over time I had agreed to give up the right to say "no, you can't do that around me any more".
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 20
[QUOTE=covington;2352845]Hi JustJakeThomas,
I felt that the only way I had to salvage a relationship with an alcoholic that I loved very much was to hope things would change magically and keep my head down.
I mistakenly thought if everyone else said it was temporary or things were functioning OK then nothing would need to be fixed.
I mistakenly thought if someone else said there was no problem, maybe I was nuts and there was no problem. I tried to beleive that. All the lies my alcoholic lover told me, I wanted to beleive them. I tried to beleive them.
I mistakenly thought the only way to protect ME, the very fabrice of who I was, was to sit and wish and hope and not rock the boat too much because I was so afraid of this rocking boat, I was so afraid all the time, i was so afraid I would fall out of the boat. I didn't want him to fall out of the boat. I got confused. I thought I could protect me by protecting him.
What I couldn't quite grasp was that I was in gale force winds, holding on for my life, worrying about rocking the boat. It was a topsy turvey and I felt like down was up. I had help co-create the environment by acting like I accepted things I felt were really deeply unacceptable. I told myself an emotionally absent partner was better than no partner at all. I felt helpless.
Worst of all, I felt like over time I had agreed to give up the right to say "no, you can't do that around me any more".
That has been my experience. It has also been my experience that an active alcoholic makes choices based upon "What Do I Need To Do To Make Sure I Can Still Drink?"
Only you can make choices based upon what you need, and what your children need.
Blessed Be,
Covington
Thanks Covington, I can definitely relate to how you felt.
So I spent a fair amount of time yesterday in this forum and it was very helpful to me. A lot of the questions and advice are consistent with my thoughts but at the end of the day I am still in a situation where I am very confused and not sure what to do. This is tough for me because everyone that knows me sees me as a very strong, smart, successful guy but I am thinking about going into this final appointment tomorrow with the counselor and really don't know what to do. I really do want to do the right thing here and the last thing I want is to drag this on due to a problem with the way I am seeing this. I spoke with my wife again this morning to make sure I understood how she explains the dr.'s view on this and once again it really does sound like tomorrow he is going to explain to me that given all the financial stress and volatility in her life she is drinking to cope with it but once we divorce and she finds her balance again it shouldn't be a problem. She said that he said the fact that if this was a big problem she wouldn't be able to perform at her job the way she does. She works from home as a software project engineer and does perform well even when she is drunk. This just doesn't make sense. I would like to write up a short document for him to read prior to our appointment to make sure he understands everything in greater detail but I am not sure what to write or if its the right thing to do. Regardless I am at the point where I feel like I am now really struggling and have lost my grip on the situation. I am know I am not crazy but I am feeling that way right now.
I felt that the only way I had to salvage a relationship with an alcoholic that I loved very much was to hope things would change magically and keep my head down.
I mistakenly thought if everyone else said it was temporary or things were functioning OK then nothing would need to be fixed.
I mistakenly thought if someone else said there was no problem, maybe I was nuts and there was no problem. I tried to beleive that. All the lies my alcoholic lover told me, I wanted to beleive them. I tried to beleive them.
I mistakenly thought the only way to protect ME, the very fabrice of who I was, was to sit and wish and hope and not rock the boat too much because I was so afraid of this rocking boat, I was so afraid all the time, i was so afraid I would fall out of the boat. I didn't want him to fall out of the boat. I got confused. I thought I could protect me by protecting him.
What I couldn't quite grasp was that I was in gale force winds, holding on for my life, worrying about rocking the boat. It was a topsy turvey and I felt like down was up. I had help co-create the environment by acting like I accepted things I felt were really deeply unacceptable. I told myself an emotionally absent partner was better than no partner at all. I felt helpless.
Worst of all, I felt like over time I had agreed to give up the right to say "no, you can't do that around me any more".
That has been my experience. It has also been my experience that an active alcoholic makes choices based upon "What Do I Need To Do To Make Sure I Can Still Drink?"
Only you can make choices based upon what you need, and what your children need.
Blessed Be,
Covington
Thanks Covington, I can definitely relate to how you felt.
So I spent a fair amount of time yesterday in this forum and it was very helpful to me. A lot of the questions and advice are consistent with my thoughts but at the end of the day I am still in a situation where I am very confused and not sure what to do. This is tough for me because everyone that knows me sees me as a very strong, smart, successful guy but I am thinking about going into this final appointment tomorrow with the counselor and really don't know what to do. I really do want to do the right thing here and the last thing I want is to drag this on due to a problem with the way I am seeing this. I spoke with my wife again this morning to make sure I understood how she explains the dr.'s view on this and once again it really does sound like tomorrow he is going to explain to me that given all the financial stress and volatility in her life she is drinking to cope with it but once we divorce and she finds her balance again it shouldn't be a problem. She said that he said the fact that if this was a big problem she wouldn't be able to perform at her job the way she does. She works from home as a software project engineer and does perform well even when she is drunk. This just doesn't make sense. I would like to write up a short document for him to read prior to our appointment to make sure he understands everything in greater detail but I am not sure what to write or if its the right thing to do. Regardless I am at the point where I feel like I am now really struggling and have lost my grip on the situation. I am know I am not crazy but I am feeling that way right now.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tar Heel Country
Posts: 86
JJT,
My Dad drank all day every day. He was an anesthetist who put thousands of people to sleep, never lost a patient, never had a patient crisis due to his mistake, raked in professional accolades at every turn and was beloved by both co-workers and patients. And he drank all day every day. And the rest of his life - especially me - suffered every day.
My Mom knew all of this, yet still let me go with him when it was his turn to have me. (They divorced when I was 5.) I cannot begin to explain the damage this did to me. Neither one of my parents took care of me. I was abandoned by both of them. I realize this is blunt....but it is impossible to be a *good parent* if you know the other parent is an active alcoholic and you do not protect your child from them.
Tarheel
My Dad drank all day every day. He was an anesthetist who put thousands of people to sleep, never lost a patient, never had a patient crisis due to his mistake, raked in professional accolades at every turn and was beloved by both co-workers and patients. And he drank all day every day. And the rest of his life - especially me - suffered every day.
My Mom knew all of this, yet still let me go with him when it was his turn to have me. (They divorced when I was 5.) I cannot begin to explain the damage this did to me. Neither one of my parents took care of me. I was abandoned by both of them. I realize this is blunt....but it is impossible to be a *good parent* if you know the other parent is an active alcoholic and you do not protect your child from them.
Tarheel
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by Tarheel
JJT,
My Dad drank all day every day. He was an anesthetist who put thousands of people to sleep, never lost a patient, never had a patient crisis due to his mistake, raked in professional accolades at every turn and was beloved by both co-workers and patients. And he drank all day every day. And the rest of his life - especially me - suffered every day.
My Mom knew all of this, yet still let me go with him when it was his turn to have me. (They divorced when I was 5.) I cannot begin to explain the damage this did to me. Neither one of my parents took care of me. I was abandoned by both of them. I realize this is blunt....but it is impossible to be a *good parent* if you know the other parent is an active alcoholic and you do not protect your child from them.
Tarheel
My Dad drank all day every day. He was an anesthetist who put thousands of people to sleep, never lost a patient, never had a patient crisis due to his mistake, raked in professional accolades at every turn and was beloved by both co-workers and patients. And he drank all day every day. And the rest of his life - especially me - suffered every day.
My Mom knew all of this, yet still let me go with him when it was his turn to have me. (They divorced when I was 5.) I cannot begin to explain the damage this did to me. Neither one of my parents took care of me. I was abandoned by both of them. I realize this is blunt....but it is impossible to be a *good parent* if you know the other parent is an active alcoholic and you do not protect your child from them.
Tarheel
Thanks Tarrheel! So yes, that does make sense about the functional alcoholic which once again leads me to believe that it is very unlikely that the Dr. would even say something like that.
So on your last comment about it is impossible to being a good parent if you know the other is an active alcoholic...I completely agree with you but that is the problem, knowing that is the case. I have everyone telling me that she isn't an alcoholic and this will go away once she is happier and has let go of her problems. She drinks a lot, meaning everyday, often starting at noon. Drinks over a 6 pack and will basically drink until there isn't any more. Because she has been on watch from everyone she has been better but still ran to the store at 11.30pm after everyone went to bed to buy a pack of cigs and beer, obviously thinks I didn't know. So anyways, all of this advice is great and helping no doubt unfortunately I think tomorrow there is soooo much riding on our final counseling appointment because we both agreed to accept his opinion and at this point it is seeming to support just getting a divorce, leave our problems and start a new life and then she won't want to drink...I guess something like that. I feel like I need to crank out a final document to him explaining more specifically why I think she needs help with her drinking, just not sure how to approach it.
Only stepping forward
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by justjakethomas
So I spent a fair amount of time yesterday in this forum and it was very helpful to me. A lot of the questions and advice are consistent with my thoughts but at the end of the day I am still in a situation where I am very confused and not sure what to do. This is tough for me because everyone that knows me sees me as a very strong, smart, successful guy but I am thinking about going into this final appointment tomorrow with the counselor and really don't know what to do.
Originally Posted by justjakethomas
I really do want to do the right thing here and the last thing I want is to drag this on due to a problem with the way I am seeing this.
Originally Posted by justjakethomas
I spoke with my wife again this morning to make sure I understood how she explains the dr.'s view on this and once again it really does sound like tomorrow he is going to explain to me that given all the financial stress and volatility in her life she is drinking to cope with it but once we divorce and she finds her balance again it shouldn't be a problem.
My daughter made me VERY angry this morning. Oh I was hot. I could have beat her......smacked her around, threw her into the wall or down the hall, called her some horrible names, refused to let her eat breakfast, not given her lunch money, so on and so forth. And when child services showed up and asked me about it, do you think when I said "oh I'm just really stressed out with finances and working long hours and everything" they'd have looked at me and said "oh, ok, it's fine then"???
Wrong is wrong. Period.
Originally Posted by justjakethomas
Regardless I am at the point where I feel like I am now really struggling and have lost my grip on the situation. I am know I am not crazy but I am feeling that way right now.
Hang in there and think about YOURSELF. Get that grip on YOU.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
You aren't crazy....
Keep some things simple.
Her being an alcoholic really is just a "word".
Her problem with alcohol is a problem for you, and your marriage.
So, wether she is an alcoholic, or just an abuser in my opinion is moot.
How you live and react to that problem is your choice.
I would be interested to know what the dr would say if you repeated in front
of him, and your wife what she told you he said, what the reaction would be?
I also highly doubt...being an alkie, that your wife was truthful about her problem that she doesn't think she has.
If she wasn't truthful, the docs response cannot be relied upon.
You say your Dad was an alcoholic...have you checked into any information on being the adult child of an alcoholic???
It might add some insight into your reactions to your wifes problem.
Keep some things simple.
Her being an alcoholic really is just a "word".
Her problem with alcohol is a problem for you, and your marriage.
So, wether she is an alcoholic, or just an abuser in my opinion is moot.
How you live and react to that problem is your choice.
I would be interested to know what the dr would say if you repeated in front
of him, and your wife what she told you he said, what the reaction would be?
I also highly doubt...being an alkie, that your wife was truthful about her problem that she doesn't think she has.
If she wasn't truthful, the docs response cannot be relied upon.
You say your Dad was an alcoholic...have you checked into any information on being the adult child of an alcoholic???
It might add some insight into your reactions to your wifes problem.
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