DUI's and Job Applications
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by jj2010 
Thanks for your reply Phineas. Just want to clarify I am not trying to justify to lie on a job application. I just don't put it down if it is not asked. I do however, list it when they ask specifically for any DUI or Misdemeanor. All I am saying is that I have paid for my mistake and there should be laws and regulations to stop employers from basing and discriminating any hiring decisions based on a 4 year old DUI. Especially, when the job has nothing to do with driving. The "truth", whether it comes from you or in a background check doesn't really help much. I mean... I get a "thank you" for being honest and upfront about my "past situation," but, then I get the "I'm sorry, we cannot continue with the hiring process due to your past DUI." I have paid my debt back to society by completing all the requirements to get my License back; therefore we should not be paying for the "rest of our lives!"
It's society that decides when you finished paying your debt, not you.
And the job doesn't need to have anything to do with driving. Many people in society view drunk driving as attempted murder and a huge personality flaw that you would put yourself in this situation to begin with, let alone twice, like OP. We can agree to disagree. I do believe some actions do have consequences that can affect the rest of your life, even if you don't think so.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Middle of MO
Posts: 666
Actually, according to law, questions on applications are *supposed* to be job-related. More and more, I am seeing legal history questions having a time frame with them. I would never advocate lying on an application, but I have been known to skip unrelated questions.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by phineas
Well, if 4 years after getting a DUI you still can't get certain jobs, then I guess you haven't paid your debt to society, right?
It's society that decides when you finished paying your debt, not you.
And the job doesn't need to have anything to do with driving. Many people in society view drunk driving as attempted murder and a huge personality flaw that you would put yourself in this situation to begin with, let alone twice, like OP. We can agree to disagree. I do believe some actions do have consequences that can affect the rest of your life, even if you don't think so.
It's society that decides when you finished paying your debt, not you.
And the job doesn't need to have anything to do with driving. Many people in society view drunk driving as attempted murder and a huge personality flaw that you would put yourself in this situation to begin with, let alone twice, like OP. We can agree to disagree. I do believe some actions do have consequences that can affect the rest of your life, even if you don't think so.
Anyway not to be a dead horse, but just got a call from EEOC and looks like I may have a case against the employer who disqualified me for my DUI conviction. They are in the process of investigating
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 60
What's legal/fair and what's actually happening in reality are sometimes different things. For example, in the country I come from, military service is mandatory, and people who manage to get out of military service are often looked down upon by society. It is against the law to ask about military service when hiring for a job and it is also illegal to discriminate against people who didn't do their military service, but that question often comes up in interview, and although many employers won't admit that, a lot of them will not hire just for that fact, they can always say they didn't hire you for different reasons.
Think about it this way: it's also against the law to discriminate employment based on weight, but how many fat flight attendants have you seen?
Think about it this way: it's also against the law to discriminate employment based on weight, but how many fat flight attendants have you seen?
Originally Posted by jj2010
I respect your opinion, but in this case I will agree to disagree. One conviction and the last conviction for me. I can understand employers not wanting to raise liabilities in their organization, especially if they see your past criminal history as habitual. But not use it against/discriminating you when the question is not listed it in their employment application. Think about it, I have even seen applications that clearly state that a past misdemeanor/felony will not necessarily disqualify your candidacy. Who is looks like the liar now?
Anyway not to be a dead horse, but just got a call from EEOC and looks like I may have a case against the employer who disqualified me for my DUI conviction. They are in the process of investigating
Anyway not to be a dead horse, but just got a call from EEOC and looks like I may have a case against the employer who disqualified me for my DUI conviction. They are in the process of investigating
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by phineas
What's legal/fair and what's actually happening in reality are sometimes different things. For example, in the country I come from, military service is mandatory, and people who manage to get out of military service are often looked down upon by society. It is against the law to ask about military service when hiring for a job and it is also illegal to discriminate against people who didn't do their military service, but that question often comes up in interview, and although many employers won't admit that, a lot of them will not hire just for that fact, they can always say they didn't hire you for different reasons.
Think about it this way: it's also against the law to discriminate employment based on weight, but how many fat flight attendants have you seen?
Think about it this way: it's also against the law to discriminate employment based on weight, but how many fat flight attendants have you seen?
LOL..that is so true!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
My DUI and job application story
I know this is an old post, but I'm applying for a new job just now, and wanted to find the answer to the same question.
My story is a little different, though, and this is what I did, and will do.
I had 3 DUI convictions - one when I was 21, another when I was 25, and another when I was 29.
And yes, I quit the part-time bartending job when I was 30.
Six months after the last one, I was applying for a job, and they did thumbprints for background checks.
But it took about 4 or 5 months to get the results back at that time I believe - this was about 1994.
On the application I put down the DUIs from when I was 25 and 29, figuring in Ca, they only went back 7 years at the time.
I heard shortly after they had changed that to go back 10 years. Ouch...
The job match seemed good on both sides, I think it was just those 2 DUIs that made it possibly questionable on their side - interview panel of 5.
I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten the job if I had put down all three - would've been just too much I believe.
And I needed the job change to happen. Was working 3rd shift, requiring a 40 minute drive each way, and no way to get there via public transporation
and no friends local to do the drive at midnight to work and pick me up at 8am 5 days a week. Just wasn't gonna happen.
This new job would be a 10 minute drive, or if needed a 20 minute bike ride, or maybe a 30 minute walk each way - it was do-able.
The job said it required a California Driver's License, which I had, it just wasn't valid for actually driving. And it had no expiration date because of that. So I put down the Driver's License number and no expiration date - didn't want to lie and just make up a date that I couldn't backup if asked.
I got the job.
I think it was about 4 or 5 months later when they started to act a little strange in some ways.
And new employees are on probation for 6 months - they can let you go for no reason at all if they want.
Personnel asked for me to bring in my driver's license because they forgot to get a copy when I was hired. Hmmm...
Timing on that was too close for comfort.
I had just re-applied for my license recently, and it arrived two days after they asked me to bring it in so they could make a copy for my records.
I never asked, and they never said, but I'm guessing the results from the thumbprint came back and probably showed I had 3 DUIs in the past 10 years, and that my driver's license was not valid for driving (note: the job didn't really require driving), so they were probably trying to decide whether or not it was worth keeping me beyond probation - my guess.
I definitely put in extra effort for the job (tech dept job in a k-12 school district) and went above and beyond as much as I could, and got
along well with everybody.
Did I lie on the application by putting my driver's license #, which wasn't valid for driving? It's still my number now even 19 years later.
I didn't lie by putting an expiration date, as I didn't put one.
Was it a lie to only put 2 of the 3 DUIs? I don't think the application asked to go back a certain number of years, and it was my understanding
that they only stayed on your record at the time for 7 years, so I put down the two that matched that.
And when signing, it usually says something to the effect of 'to the best of your knowledge the above is true and correct', and it was at the time.
I'm guessing if I couldn't provide a driver's license that was also valid for driving when they asked 4 or 5 months after being hired, I probably would have been let go then before probation ended. But I delayed going into Personnel two days, and then had my replacement driver's license - able to drive and the kind of license insurance companies love - double or triple the insurance cost.
Had I been a sub-par employee, I have no doubt they would've ousted me.
They probably had 1/2 dozen technicalities they could have used to get rid of me, and since I was on probation, they didn't even need reasons.
So to somebody in a similar situation, I would suggest being very honest, but vague at times if it's not something that will cause coworkers
harm or the org damage in some way. And if they do hire you, put extra effort into that job in return - if they love your work, they're much
more willing to overlook things at times in return for your extra effort.
I know ignorance of the law isn't an excuse for breaking it, but if the application says 'to the best of your knowledge, is the above true and
correct', well my interpretation of that is that a little ignorance is acceptable. If I signed it knowing that the number of years had changed
to 10, then I would have been lying. I learned about that change further into the group sessions.
Okay, so fast forward to 2012...
I ended up staying at that job for now 18 years, and still there, actually.
My boss's boss, who was on the interview panel, just retired a month ago.
My boss, who was also on the interview panel, still there, but retiring later this year.
The Personnel Director on that interview panel - retired 5 years ago.
And one other on the interview panel, still there, but probably retiring soon.
I'm 49 and can't retire yet.
But I found a new job opening that fits me really well I think - more on the programming side.
All four are willing to give me a great referral for the new org, and one said they were right on in hiring me 18 years ago without a doubt.
But in the back of my mind, I still wonder... 'if the application doesn't specify how many years to go back on that, do I need to put those 3
DUIs from my 20's now that I'm 49?
So I went looking and came across this post.
And after writing my story in this area, I've decided no, when it gets to that section, I'll answer 'no' or leave it blank for nothing to report here.
It won't take them four or five months to get a background check these days, and if they still hold against me what I did in my 20's despite
the referrals my bosses and coworkers are giving me for our time over the past 18 years, well then it's really not a job I want anyway, and
my current employer likes me enough to take me back.
The key piece is finding the best employer to help you go from one side to the other, and then bend over backwards for them.
It doesn't have to be for 18 years - the working relationship, and knowledge needed, just worked out really well for us in that job for me.
But you do need to find that right employer for the transition I believe.
That's my story - hope it helps somebody else in some way at some time...
My story is a little different, though, and this is what I did, and will do.
I had 3 DUI convictions - one when I was 21, another when I was 25, and another when I was 29.
And yes, I quit the part-time bartending job when I was 30.
Six months after the last one, I was applying for a job, and they did thumbprints for background checks.
But it took about 4 or 5 months to get the results back at that time I believe - this was about 1994.
On the application I put down the DUIs from when I was 25 and 29, figuring in Ca, they only went back 7 years at the time.
I heard shortly after they had changed that to go back 10 years. Ouch...
The job match seemed good on both sides, I think it was just those 2 DUIs that made it possibly questionable on their side - interview panel of 5.
I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten the job if I had put down all three - would've been just too much I believe.
And I needed the job change to happen. Was working 3rd shift, requiring a 40 minute drive each way, and no way to get there via public transporation
and no friends local to do the drive at midnight to work and pick me up at 8am 5 days a week. Just wasn't gonna happen.
This new job would be a 10 minute drive, or if needed a 20 minute bike ride, or maybe a 30 minute walk each way - it was do-able.
The job said it required a California Driver's License, which I had, it just wasn't valid for actually driving. And it had no expiration date because of that. So I put down the Driver's License number and no expiration date - didn't want to lie and just make up a date that I couldn't backup if asked.
I got the job.
I think it was about 4 or 5 months later when they started to act a little strange in some ways.
And new employees are on probation for 6 months - they can let you go for no reason at all if they want.
Personnel asked for me to bring in my driver's license because they forgot to get a copy when I was hired. Hmmm...
Timing on that was too close for comfort.
I had just re-applied for my license recently, and it arrived two days after they asked me to bring it in so they could make a copy for my records.
I never asked, and they never said, but I'm guessing the results from the thumbprint came back and probably showed I had 3 DUIs in the past 10 years, and that my driver's license was not valid for driving (note: the job didn't really require driving), so they were probably trying to decide whether or not it was worth keeping me beyond probation - my guess.
I definitely put in extra effort for the job (tech dept job in a k-12 school district) and went above and beyond as much as I could, and got
along well with everybody.
Did I lie on the application by putting my driver's license #, which wasn't valid for driving? It's still my number now even 19 years later.
I didn't lie by putting an expiration date, as I didn't put one.
Was it a lie to only put 2 of the 3 DUIs? I don't think the application asked to go back a certain number of years, and it was my understanding
that they only stayed on your record at the time for 7 years, so I put down the two that matched that.
And when signing, it usually says something to the effect of 'to the best of your knowledge the above is true and correct', and it was at the time.
I'm guessing if I couldn't provide a driver's license that was also valid for driving when they asked 4 or 5 months after being hired, I probably would have been let go then before probation ended. But I delayed going into Personnel two days, and then had my replacement driver's license - able to drive and the kind of license insurance companies love - double or triple the insurance cost.
Had I been a sub-par employee, I have no doubt they would've ousted me.
They probably had 1/2 dozen technicalities they could have used to get rid of me, and since I was on probation, they didn't even need reasons.
So to somebody in a similar situation, I would suggest being very honest, but vague at times if it's not something that will cause coworkers
harm or the org damage in some way. And if they do hire you, put extra effort into that job in return - if they love your work, they're much
more willing to overlook things at times in return for your extra effort.
I know ignorance of the law isn't an excuse for breaking it, but if the application says 'to the best of your knowledge, is the above true and
correct', well my interpretation of that is that a little ignorance is acceptable. If I signed it knowing that the number of years had changed
to 10, then I would have been lying. I learned about that change further into the group sessions.
Okay, so fast forward to 2012...
I ended up staying at that job for now 18 years, and still there, actually.
My boss's boss, who was on the interview panel, just retired a month ago.
My boss, who was also on the interview panel, still there, but retiring later this year.
The Personnel Director on that interview panel - retired 5 years ago.
And one other on the interview panel, still there, but probably retiring soon.
I'm 49 and can't retire yet.
But I found a new job opening that fits me really well I think - more on the programming side.
All four are willing to give me a great referral for the new org, and one said they were right on in hiring me 18 years ago without a doubt.
But in the back of my mind, I still wonder... 'if the application doesn't specify how many years to go back on that, do I need to put those 3
DUIs from my 20's now that I'm 49?
So I went looking and came across this post.
And after writing my story in this area, I've decided no, when it gets to that section, I'll answer 'no' or leave it blank for nothing to report here.
It won't take them four or five months to get a background check these days, and if they still hold against me what I did in my 20's despite
the referrals my bosses and coworkers are giving me for our time over the past 18 years, well then it's really not a job I want anyway, and
my current employer likes me enough to take me back.
The key piece is finding the best employer to help you go from one side to the other, and then bend over backwards for them.
It doesn't have to be for 18 years - the working relationship, and knowledge needed, just worked out really well for us in that job for me.
But you do need to find that right employer for the transition I believe.
That's my story - hope it helps somebody else in some way at some time...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
I think it is a good practice to be truthful as a default position. But, there are times when silence is the better option. And personally, I would have no problem telling a lie to save someone's life. We all have to make our own decisions.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
I recently applied for a job as a school bus driver. However, they disqualified me on the basis of my 3 DUI's. I thought about it & realize today sober or not I have no business behind a school bus hauling kids. 
I mean if I ever relapse it I know I could drive drunk again.
I mean if I ever relapse it I know I could drive drunk again.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 318
Hi everyone- I'm bumping this up to see if anyone has any advice. I am currently looking for a job- I have my masters degree and extensive experience... and was just convicted of a misdemeanor DUI two months ago. I am 40 days sober and have been participating in an intensive outpatient program for two months.
On most applications it asks about misdemeanors- I am going to list it as I don't think I should lie... should I explain the DUI and the actions I have taken since or simply list it?
Any advice would be great
On most applications it asks about misdemeanors- I am going to list it as I don't think I should lie... should I explain the DUI and the actions I have taken since or simply list it?
Any advice would be great
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 639
Definitely explain the actions you are taking to correct it. It will sound even better when you can say you completed an IOP or that you still attend AA voluntarily. I don't think 1 DUI is a huge deal to employers unless it's a job where you have to drive.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
Some jobs(even if you don't have to drive) will run a check on your driving record. They will not hire you just because of a minor speeding ticket. One big problem with lying is that the employer can tell other employers about your lying and mess up for your chances getting work in a given area.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 41
This may be a consequence of California law -- I really don't know -- but I've only been asked about felonies and non-traffic misdemeanors. I had one employer find out about my DUI through my driving record during the background check. Given that I didn't have any other issues they hired me.
Happily, relatively soon my DUI will drop off my driving record. I need to check with a lawyer if I should bother getting the misdemeanor expunged.
I would answer the question asked, as asked, and nothing more. I would not lie, especially if the lie could possibly be uncovered in a background investigation.
Best of luck!
Happily, relatively soon my DUI will drop off my driving record. I need to check with a lawyer if I should bother getting the misdemeanor expunged.
I would answer the question asked, as asked, and nothing more. I would not lie, especially if the lie could possibly be uncovered in a background investigation.
Best of luck!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 645
I'm actually a Background Investigator for federal clearances. If it was in the last seven years I would list it. I would list the actions you have taken to make sure it never happens again as well. For the clearances I do, if you have a DUI that is okay. It's when you try to hide it or be deceptive that the red flags go up. When this occurs, it is viewed as putting yourself in a position of duress in which you could possibly be coerced, blackmailed or exploited in some way that would make you vulnerable to those type people or groups that have an interest in terrorist activities against the U.S. I've interviewed subjects who had DUIs as far back as 30 years ago that did not list it/them on the security questionnaire. When confronted they said they simply didn't list it/them because they were so long ago, but once asked about them readily admitted to the offenses and provided detailed information regarding the arrest(s). This is usually fine too. I'm not an adjudicator, I simply supply the most update to date accurate information to the adjudicator. Hope this helps.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by Raufoss
This may be a consequence of California law -- I really don't know -- but I've only been asked about felonies and non-traffic misdemeanors.
This may sound like a stupid question; however, is a DUI considered a traffic offense?? lol I suppose that would make sense
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by Soberween
I believe DUI is usually considered a misdemeanor. In some cases it can be a felony if it is your 4th, 5th, 6th, etc. DUI.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,514
Another upside to being honest on a job application is that there will be no residual anxiety. That's something that would have bothered me if I was in that situation. I would be watching and waiting...
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
DUI's and Job Applications
I posted earlier on this thread, but have a bit of an update to what happened with me...
I had three DUI's in my 20's, and have just recently turned 50.
Have good education and experience in my field of technology.
Have worked for a K-12 school district for the past 19 years - technology dept. I was applying at another school district recently and wondering if I had to list them on the application.
I wasn't going to until I researched a bit more.
It may depend on what kind of org you are applying to.
K-12 school districts do their background checks through the DOJ, who gets their info from the FBI.
The convictions don't roll off after a certain number of years there.
I'd guess most any govt or public service type job probably does their checks in the same way.
I'm guessing, but don't know this for a fact, that private industry probably does their checks on this through the DMV, and DUIs do roll off your record there at some point.
There are exceptions I'm sure - companies that require you to be bonded probably have justification to have their checks done through the DOJ. Others such as medical fields, security companies, etc... I'm guessing
also could have reason for a DOJ check rather than DMV.
The DOJ has a form you can submit to get a copy of what's on your DOJ/FBI record.
So... I did put all three on my application.
I did get called in for an interview.
I didn't get the job, but I don't believe it was because of the DUI's.
They wanted a SQL Specialist, and while I'me decent with SQL, it's really only about 30% of me - and I like to stay more diversified, so it wasn't a good match on either side really.
Would I explain it, and what you're doing, on the application - I wouldn't.
Two months into it isn't long enough to know if you're going to stick with that plan and continue to improve.
The topic will probably come up in the interview, and it may be a little awkward. But your sincerity/honesty there will probably be more obvious than in writing.
What I did do, was on my resume, I included my bartending job for 10 years that coincided with the three DUIs.
People told me not to put that on there, but I felt it best to show that once I quit bartending I also quit getting DUIs. Ironic, huh? :-)
And it overlapped as a part time job while I was also working in tech, so the time-frame matched up with what was on the resume already.
I also emailed the Personnel Dept before submitting my application/resume, to ask if I had to list the DUIs on the application. They said yes. My reasoning there was that it was the Personnel Dept that would respond, and if
they said 'no', then the interview panel may not then be aware of them. Obviously the Personnel Dept may have also passed on the info to the Tech dept. But that's an unknown piece if they would.
One last thing, although it doesn't help the poster immediately - I did hear recently that, I think it was a state-level thing in California, but not 100% sure on that - supposedly K-12 school districts won't be asking for the criminal record on the application starting in 2014.
And they won't be allowed to ask it until after they have made you an offer for the job.
The reason being, if I understood it right, they want to help get people with records like these back into jobs so they don't revert to old ways. But... at that point they still can retract the offer if the convictions were for
serious, violent, etc... crimes - armed robbery, rape, molestation, etc... Obviously that may also change depending on job for something like a Bus Driver where driving is a part of the day-to-day job.
I don't have the reference to this last info handy, but will look around for it if wanted. Not sure if it's actually something passed, or just was something in the works.
I had three DUI's in my 20's, and have just recently turned 50.
Have good education and experience in my field of technology.
Have worked for a K-12 school district for the past 19 years - technology dept. I was applying at another school district recently and wondering if I had to list them on the application.
I wasn't going to until I researched a bit more.
It may depend on what kind of org you are applying to.
K-12 school districts do their background checks through the DOJ, who gets their info from the FBI.
The convictions don't roll off after a certain number of years there.
I'd guess most any govt or public service type job probably does their checks in the same way.
I'm guessing, but don't know this for a fact, that private industry probably does their checks on this through the DMV, and DUIs do roll off your record there at some point.
There are exceptions I'm sure - companies that require you to be bonded probably have justification to have their checks done through the DOJ. Others such as medical fields, security companies, etc... I'm guessing
also could have reason for a DOJ check rather than DMV.
The DOJ has a form you can submit to get a copy of what's on your DOJ/FBI record.
So... I did put all three on my application.
I did get called in for an interview.
I didn't get the job, but I don't believe it was because of the DUI's.
They wanted a SQL Specialist, and while I'me decent with SQL, it's really only about 30% of me - and I like to stay more diversified, so it wasn't a good match on either side really.
Would I explain it, and what you're doing, on the application - I wouldn't.
Two months into it isn't long enough to know if you're going to stick with that plan and continue to improve.
The topic will probably come up in the interview, and it may be a little awkward. But your sincerity/honesty there will probably be more obvious than in writing.
What I did do, was on my resume, I included my bartending job for 10 years that coincided with the three DUIs.
People told me not to put that on there, but I felt it best to show that once I quit bartending I also quit getting DUIs. Ironic, huh? :-)
And it overlapped as a part time job while I was also working in tech, so the time-frame matched up with what was on the resume already.
I also emailed the Personnel Dept before submitting my application/resume, to ask if I had to list the DUIs on the application. They said yes. My reasoning there was that it was the Personnel Dept that would respond, and if
they said 'no', then the interview panel may not then be aware of them. Obviously the Personnel Dept may have also passed on the info to the Tech dept. But that's an unknown piece if they would.
One last thing, although it doesn't help the poster immediately - I did hear recently that, I think it was a state-level thing in California, but not 100% sure on that - supposedly K-12 school districts won't be asking for the criminal record on the application starting in 2014.
And they won't be allowed to ask it until after they have made you an offer for the job.
The reason being, if I understood it right, they want to help get people with records like these back into jobs so they don't revert to old ways. But... at that point they still can retract the offer if the convictions were for
serious, violent, etc... crimes - armed robbery, rape, molestation, etc... Obviously that may also change depending on job for something like a Bus Driver where driving is a part of the day-to-day job.
I don't have the reference to this last info handy, but will look around for it if wanted. Not sure if it's actually something passed, or just was something in the works.
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