Stayingsassy

I understand that it there is a simple cosmic beauty in having the immense fortune to achieve sobriety, then pay it forward to others who struggle.

But can I just share that it is so damned hard when they start up again and you know it’s a bad situation. I know that I need to stay in my own lane and I do, but it’s hard to just stop thinking about someone you know will probably die because they just blindly, casually and foolishly picked up again.

Goddamnit people, this is a lethal substance. It poisons you in large amounts, pickles your brain, scars your organs and puts actual holes through your tissue, it causes internal bleeding...you don’t even know what it’s doing to you on the inside because you can’t tell until it’s too late. Please, please, take this seriously and remember that the part of your brain that thinks it’s a good idea, that one more time won’t hurt, that it’s good for you, is LYING TO YOU. It’s a web of lies. Don’t listen to it. Put one foot in front of the other. Accept the temporary bad feelings or anxiety: they don’t last. This is the single most important thing you could possibly do with this life of yours. Your sobriety is your hero’s journey.

DayTrader

For some people, it's more than a blind or foolish decision..... it's a foregone conclusion. Such is the nature with alcoholism. Though AA has proved to be a solution for every one of these types of folks I've ever come across, many are not willing to proceed with it.

2 very close friends of mine have died quite recently from this illness and knowing them, I know it wasn't lack of knowledge of how bad drinking was for them. It also wasn't that they didn't take it seriously - they did. The did everything they were willing to do to try and get better but sadly, they weren't open to all the avenues available to them.

I don't try anymore to understand "why" things went the way they went. Perhaps someday I will but, so far anyway, today isn't the day. What I do have control over is maintaining my own sobriety and spirituality and being completely willing to share the process with anyone who's open to hearing it or trying it themselves. What happens beyond that is what is supposed to happen, even though I may not like it or understand it.

ScottFromWI

I feel your frustration Sassy, but as DayTrader says, there's not always an answer to the why. I do think that it's possible to help others and even be an example to inspire other people to get sober - but not everyone of course. Celebrating the successes is important but we do have to temper that with the reality that we can't save everyone.

Dee74

I feel the frustration too but all I can really do - all any of us can do - is share our experience.

Sometimes that will help, and sadly sometimes not, but it's pretty much the only bullet any of us has in our arsenal.

I can't make anyone do anything - and that goes double for stopping drinking or using.

I will continue to share my experience and try and share my accumulated wisdom(!)....but the decision to stop isn't mine to make.

Stayingsassy

Scott and Dee, honestly I was thinking about the two of you, watching people crash and burn here all the time. Because I don’t think I could do that. Sometimes, knowing people are drinking again makes me feel unbearably sad. And helpless.

I left the site for a few days and this person drank when I left and I feel partially responsible. I keep telling myself not to, that this person needed to do whatever it takes to stay sober and this site wasn’t going to be able to be everything that person needed, other avenues were not being pursued. but I just feel bad, and I feel bad because it hits so close to home, this horrible trap we are all vulnerable to when we go back to drinking. The only way to be ok is to not pick up that drink, it’s only a horrible trap if you pick up....but it’s impossible sometimes to get that message across.

Daytrader, I am sorry for your losses. I am sure I will see more losses in my future. But I won’t be losing my life to drinking, and that’s what I need to focus on and be grateful for.

Thanks for the support.

Dee74

I've felt bad too at times - this is a community, we make connections and none of us are robots.

I've had the 'if only I'd' thoughts....

But I can't be responsible for anyone elses recovery but my own.
I cross that line at my, and other peoples, peril.

I'd either go mad, or have to leave SR.

Stayingsassy

Yeah. This one kept coming back to my headspace, was just kind of haunted by it. I talked with my family about it a little.

You’re right. And how can I help anyone if I don’t keep some sort of boundary. Staying in my own lane.

Ironically what I do for work is rather heart wrenching....but the folks here can get to me in a way my clients do not, and that’s because I know it could easily be me, that I have the same condition and I’m one drink away from being in that other dimension.

Dee74

I get it. Its been a long learning curve for me stayingsassy.

D

BullDog777

^ this.

Sadly...almost 90% of those that try will fail.

Whatever method the sufferer uses to stay sober-be it AA or therapy, or NA or white knuckle or religon or whatever....there is a statement from AA that will hold water no matter what program you invest in.....

-"willing to go to any length to get it."

You can't be the one who values their life enough to do what it takes to get this. They have to. An most of them are so far gone, they simply won't.

But that's on them. Not you.

Sadly...it's the nature of the beast.

Guener

This is a very unique community, it's comprised of addicts. I don't know what percentage presently is estimated to suffer from addiction, though, sadly, those numbers seem to be going up. Whatever the basis of our addictions, the known evidence is that the long-term recovery rate, especially without relapse, is historically low. Many of us pick up again, and too many die without even knowing periods of abstinence.

Before I came to SR, I was doing fairly well on my own, though I have had relapsed and have had shorter lapses over the past two years. Ironically my head seems to swim with more thoughts of picking up since I came here than I had in the recent past, as I'm constantly immersed in thoughts of what alcohol means to me and to others. Immunity from feelings of picking up is something I don't have, but I still come back, because despite the discomfort it entails, I believe that it will make me stronger in my chances of the longest term of sobriety possible for me, and, I hope, permanent freedom from using again.

I do see people coming back, and I see people disappearing from SR. That's part of what it means to be here. It happens all the time in AA and in other programs, rehab centers, and in families everywhere. I don't understand why some people make it and others don't, and if somebody had that answer in their pocket, SR wouldn't be necessary for me or anyone else. All I can do is try the best that I can and hopefully rub off on a few people here and there who also want what sobriety brings to life.

It is damned hard some days.

MindfulMan

Therapists are trained to have boundaries with their clients and to take care of themselves. That's the only way to.continue.tonhelp.others

BullDog777

My oldest friend in the world is a child psychologist who works with abused children.

She's at the top of her craft. She once told me there are days where it won't matter how much you try to dissociate- to have those emotional boundaries... Some days there will be that one kid who will manage to leave you completely emotionally gutted.

I kind of think that's the case here too.

There was someone awhile back who was threatening suicide here. That they were done. They had written letters, they were just waiting a few more hours...That there was nothing left for anyone to say.

Moderators and many people tried to help...in the end I don't know if it worked or not.

I never commented on that thread, but it haunted me for weeks after that. Not that I could have done anything. When it gets that far gone...that s#it scares me and I want to leave it to better people to guide them.

That same week I had lost a close friend to a stroke. She tried so hard to live and then there was this person who was just willing to fu@$ing fork it all over because they didn't know how to live anymore.

This illness is so incredibly sad...maybe worse in some ways than other deadly diseases. In a lot of their cases, they have no choice to be sick.,...we do. So we choose- and we reject the ones who will mourn us the most. Which in some cases is more devastating than our actual death.

I hate this.

FBL

As many have stated, all we can do is share our strength, hope and experience. In the end, recovery is an inside job.

August252015

Exactly.

This is when I will quote least and say GRATITUDE is the thing that I have to return to - that I "get it" and that I do everything in my power to keep "getting it" - and DOING it, whatever it is to stay sober.

Like Dee said, and I am much earlier in than he, it's a learning curve of empathy, frustration, sadness, everything.

The best I can do is to be sober and live the best life I can, which for me is guided by AA and therefore my HP. Being of service to others is a must, even though they won't always accept that willingness to help.

Grungehead

This is a really important topic for us addict/alcoholics, because the difficult fact is that the "hallmark" of our illness is relapse. And there's nothing anyone else can do (short of locking someone up) to prevent another person from relapsing. I've personally found that it's difficult to agree to help another alcoholic while at the same time detaching myself from the results, but I have to remind myself that I'm not in charge of the results department. All I can do is share what was freely passed on to me in hopes that it helps others.

Having been on other side of the equation (the one relapsing after long-term sobriety) there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent it but me. I'm certain I caused a lot of angst among those who cared about me to see me go back down that hole (twice) after seemingly beating the odds for so long. I'm very grateful that in my case I've had a 3rd chance at sobriety as not everyone gets that many. I try to pass that experience on to those who seek it and hope they learn from my mistakes so they don't have to experience them.

DriGuy

About 6 years into AA, a friend's wife's sister was coming to stay with them for a month, because she was sick of drinking and was a self identified alcoholic, seriously alcoholic according to her sister. Knowing that I regularly attended AA meetings, she asked if I would be willing to take her to one meeting a week.

I happily agreed because I had so much success in AA, and loved my new found sobriety so much that I secretly held this fantasy of introducing a desperate drunk to meetings and watching them blossom. I had watched people nail sobriety before, and for me it was extremely gratifying as I suppose it is for all of us. But I never played the role of the person that introduced them.

But I told my friend's wife that if her sister was that bad off but serious about sobriety, she should go to a meeting every night, and I would be happy to take her since I was already going every night, anyway.

Things went really well. This woman loved the meetings, and loved sobriety. You could tell it was all real too, because she sparkled in sobriety, always expressing sincere gratitude in meetings, and I felt joy in feeling like I played a small role.

After a month, she left to return home full of enthusiasm and hope, actually to the other side of the country , but we kept in touch by email, she was going to meetings at home, and loving sobriety, but she had a few obstacles to deal with.

According to her sister, a clinical psychologist, she suffered from something called border personality disorder, which manifested itself in manipulating behavior and I can't remember what else. Her husband was a horrible enabler, who she loved of course, and get this; She owned and operated a bar. I'm not making this up.

After a few months, something funny was going on with her emails, she would tell me things, and I could get the drift of what she was talking about, but I couldn't understand chains of events in the details and how they were interconnected. Later, I started seeing her grammar and sentence structure deteriorate. Then I didn't hear from her anymore, and I asked my friend's wife how her sister was doing. She replied briefly, "Oh, she died in the hospital." It was some kind of serious reaction to alcohol, and indeed she had fallen off he wagon as I suspected from her emails. This whole thing happened over a period of 6 months.

It was gratifying to see this woman see the light, and it was disappointing to learn it didn't stick and she died, but I had watched so many AA members continually fail, that I was prepared for the worst when it happened. Alcoholism is a grim prognosis. I don't know why some fail and others succeed, but statistically, the chances for recovery are worse than most types of cancer. It's too easy to write it off as, "Well they just didn't do it right and bla bla bla." It's unlikely to be that simple with failure rates so high. While this is dismal to think about, witnessing the success stories is nothing short of inspiring. I love rooting for alcoholics, encouraging them, and helping, but realistically after so many years, I'm prepared for the worst too.

zjw

i dunno i got over 7 years sobriety. and theres a lot of stuff i simply dont post about becasue i dont get the help i need here. I also ponder going to aa but i feel like i just get empty talk. Ya know "you'll figure it out" type stuff lots of feel good fluff but it lacks substance. My life is extremely stressful right now and i'm doing all i can to keep the ship from sailing into the "i might drink territory" but its a battle. If i pick up again it'll be because lord knows i tried not to but just had about all i could handle. Or i'll be in a corner drooling on myself i dunno.

I think about it with how hard life is for me. I dont want too i really dont. I got to thinking as stressful and horrible as crap is now is it worse then when i got sober? and i'm like nope... Getting sober was way way way way harder then what i got going on. but it still aint easy.

at the end of the day tho if someone else picks up again its on them. All ya can do is be a warm and cozy place they can run to to sober back up. Or for some they have to play the tough love role what did you go do that for etc.. Everyones got there place in this little support group. No one likes to hear the tough love but we gotta hear it at times. And when you drink and come back to the group its nice to have follks say "hey its alright dust yourself off and get back on the wagon is all".

I think its always going to be a battle for me. sometimes its so simple to stay sober. other days i wanna go drink in the worst way. I dont see that changing.

DriGuy

I think it's imperative to sort through the input you get, and decide for yourself what is helpful and what is fluff. Whether what worked for someone else works for you, and whether you really want to get sober.

Getting sober is not easy. I would put my sobriety among the 10 most daunting accomplishments of my life. But when I got to my bottom, I recognized sobriety as the only alternative.

You may be having a hard time, but you may not be at your bottom yet. Some people don't hit bottom until they are near death. I've heard frightening stories about people's bottoms. Some may have been exaggerated for effect, but not all of them.

I'd call myself a high bottom drunk. I had not yet ruined my life, just messed it up some, but at the very end, it was like I'd stepped into an elevator shaft, and the plunge downward was so fast that it scared me to death.

And in retrospect, my bottom was actually much lower than what I thought. It's just that I spent very little time in that sudden downward plunge before I managed to salvage my life, finances, and job. So what I saw as my high bottom was the part just before I stepped into the elevator shaft. But during that plunge I was doing some incredibly stupid things for which I am still ashamed.

Threshold

My mother in law died of alcoholism. It wasn't what was written on the bottom of her death certificate, but it was the cause of...broken bones, bleeding ulcers, ruptured organs, broken neck, surgeries that ended up with long periods in the hospital and ultimately to her death from pneumonia.

In the past two years I've watched some friends go back out. A few have found their way back to recovery, others...have died, fallen off the map or are still ou there ripping and roaring. I wonder what's the difference between them and me.

What happened that took them back out and am I immune to it? or is the same thing waiting around the corner to blindside me? I don't know. I dont' understand this disease, and I know from personal experience, the things that have caused me to say F it and use again in the past were often stupid little things of zero consequence that I simple decided I was going to hand my power over to.

I got tired, angry, depressed, scared and then...let myself get swept down a very familiar stream.

Honestly, I think it's partly a suicide wish. Part of me just gets tired of living, and rather than outright off myself...I'll just let the river take me till a waterfall or enough times being dragged under finally does away with me.

I've had to work long and hard on my underlying love affair with suicidal ideation...yes, there's even a 12 step group for it! If I had not done that, and do not continue to do that I think that ultimately I would let some stupid little nothing cause me to say "it's not worth it" and off I'd go.

I have to address the fact that sometimes I just don't want to deal with life period, and I have had to take that option off the table and keep it off for the rest of my recovery to remain intact.

The only way to handle my own recovery, life and the sadness of seeing good people go back out and die is to handle it one day at a time. Not to bite off more than I can chew or more than I can address. All I have is today. I don't have to feel tomorrow or yesterday's feelings today, or address tomorrow or yesterday's challenges. Keep focused on what has been given to me today, and take good care of it. As soon as I get ahead of myself, I feel overwhelmed.

Cosima11

I've learned a huge amount from this community and really genuinely feel like it's given me the necessary tools to achieve permanent sobriety. That being said.. I've been going through a weird phase where recovery is starting to look like a burden in some ways as I feel it makes me stand out when what I really need to be doing is blending in to a new social/professional environment. Something close to nostalgia about living in Vegas has been re-surfacing in my mind. Then I remember drinking again would make about as much sense as jumping out of a window for fun.. the thrill of the free fall does not soften the blow of hitting concrete/the sure devastation relapse brings. Voicing it out loud (or here) allows it to dissipate, and maybe helps someone else in the process.

I have a friend irl who is in really, really bad shape. I feel guilty for saying it but sometimes hearing about what he's going through makes me that much more grateful that I'm no longer in that position. If I can give that back to him in some way by offering hope from my own experiences, that's the ideal.. everything has its place. Sometimes there are no answers and the worst actually happens. Ultimately all I know is other people's decisions are out of my hands.