When members drink again
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,533
I totally understand your frustration sassy especially if you have not relapsed. I'm very frustrated at myself for a recent relapse. But I must say thanks to this community they always welcome me back with open arms. In the beginning of my time on SR I attained longer 18 month sobriety. Then thought I was re-wired and could be a normie drinker (Whatever that means, that's like a normie heroine user) so that relapse lasted over a year or longer. I returned to SR... relapsed again for a few months, this cycle continued, returned relapsed again for six weeks, returned and then relapsed for 1 night and I'm back. Not everyone can get this **** down when it is all you know. It takes a long long long time to get this **** straight. Now I have the tools and support to help me and I recognize quicker that I'm an out of control drinker. Yes, I keep relapsing, but they are getting shorter in time and now first time ever I turned my ass around and did an about face after 1 night out. It's a horrible ailment to be cursed with. Nice to know you care and the members that do return to drinking are human and most don't get this on the first try and some never do... But I will never give up.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by joy57 
I totally understand your frustration sassy especially if you have not relapsed. I'm very frustrated at myself for a recent relapse. But I must say thanks to this community they always welcome me back with open arms. In the beginning of my time on SR I attained longer 18 month sobriety. Then thought I was re-wired and could be a normie drinker (Whatever that means, that's like a normie heroine user) so that relapse lasted over a year or longer. I returned to SR... relapsed again for a few months, this cycle continued, returned relapsed again for six weeks, returned and then relapsed for 1 night and I'm back. Not everyone can get this **** down when it is all you know. It takes a long long long time to get this **** straight. Now I have the tools and support to help me and I recognize quicker that I'm an out of control drinker. Yes, I keep relapsing, but they are getting shorter in time and now first time ever I turned my ass around and did an about face after 1 night out. It's a horrible ailment to be cursed with. Nice to know you care and the members that do return to drinking are human and most don't get this on the first try and some never do... But I will never give up.
I get emotional here in a way that I don’t at work, even though what I face at work is similar. I get irritated quickly here, and I am calm and level at work. Peoples stories here sometimes bring me to tears quickly, out of sadness and frustration. Sometimes, at work I come across alcoholics, and I don’t stop thinking about it for ages. Alcoholics are my family, that sounds goofy I know, but it’s almost like having shared DNA that you didn’t choose to share with people. And as a result there is this gut level understanding. It hits me hard.
Yet, I return here despite my challenges to keep my reminder to myself and to provide at least one example of someone with sobriety. It’s not the last time I’ll feel sad, but it’s good I have somewhere to talk about it.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by Stayingsassy
I get emotional here in a way that I don’t at work, even though what I face at work is similar. .
I think it's much like the dynamic of a recovery meeting - you would say and hear things there that you'd never in a million years talk about at work.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
Relapse is a very serious topic - the most serious from my perspective.
Recovery in general, and AA in particular, is a dichotomy of miracles on the one hand and tragedies (frequently including death) on the other.
I don't know it when someone on our forums relapses, though, unless he or she brings it up when they return, because we don't have a membership tally-board, so to speak.
If there is, I haven't run across it yet.
I was out of town for a good bit of a 3 week period over the summer, with no posting on my part, and, the next time I logged onto SR, I was very gratified to have received a nice note inquiring about my absence.
It made me feel real good.
There are some prior regular posters from our forums who seem to have disappeared, and I hope that all of them are happy, healthy and sober.
Recovery in general, and AA in particular, is a dichotomy of miracles on the one hand and tragedies (frequently including death) on the other.
I don't know it when someone on our forums relapses, though, unless he or she brings it up when they return, because we don't have a membership tally-board, so to speak.
If there is, I haven't run across it yet.
I was out of town for a good bit of a 3 week period over the summer, with no posting on my part, and, the next time I logged onto SR, I was very gratified to have received a nice note inquiring about my absence.
It made me feel real good.
There are some prior regular posters from our forums who seem to have disappeared, and I hope that all of them are happy, healthy and sober.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
A regular in a meeting I attend died last week and he was an alcoholism counselor. I feel so much gratitude that I'm sober today.
And this problem worsens every day. It’s a public health crisis. People are dying left and right from drinking.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 24
A symptom of my disease was that I believed anything that happened within my little sphere of awareness, because I might have been directly or directly involved in it, happened because of me, and I was responsible, I was at fault.
I influence just about nothing. People and situations just happen. Out of my control.
They drank because of something you didn'tsay? No, they drank cause they chose to. Not because a stranger on the internet or in a church basement couldn't effectively talk them out of it.
I influence just about nothing. People and situations just happen. Out of my control.
They drank because of something you didn'tsay? No, they drank cause they chose to. Not because a stranger on the internet or in a church basement couldn't effectively talk them out of it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by CJHolden
A symptom of my disease was that I believed anything that happened within my little sphere of awareness, because I might have been directly or directly involved in it, happened because of me, and I was responsible, I was at fault.
I influence just about nothing. People and situations just happen. Out of my control.
They drank because of something you didn'tsay? No, they drank cause they chose to. Not because a stranger on the internet or in a church basement couldn't effectively talk them out of it.
I influence just about nothing. People and situations just happen. Out of my control.
They drank because of something you didn'tsay? No, they drank cause they chose to. Not because a stranger on the internet or in a church basement couldn't effectively talk them out of it.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Oh no. Was he sober with illness caused by drinking, or did he relapse? Even those who counsel are not immune.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
It was a relapse. He overdosed on heroin. I heard a sober shrink qualify that he went out with 27 years (back four) even though addiction is is specialty. No one gets a guarantee. I've been going to the same meetings on the Upper West Side of Manhattan for 27 years and the rooms don't get any bigger yet with all the newcomers we should be in Yankee Stadium by now. Sure some move, but most don't make it. Sobriety is a gift we should never take for granted.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
I'm a member of AA and when I hear a member share they drank again I try and welcome them back with encouragement.
But why do some return to drink and others don't?
The reasons vary.
The best I can come up with is they stopped appreciating their sobriety.
But why do some return to drink and others don't?
The reasons vary.
The best I can come up with is they stopped appreciating their sobriety.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 24
We're addicts. That didn't happen overnight. It took years of repeatedly reinforcing that drinking feels good, to get to a point where it was so hard wired into the brain that we couldn't get enough and couldn't stop. It's going to take more than one cycle of quitting followed by relapse to redo the brain's wiring, to get to where quitting feels better than relapsing.. usually that's reinforced by repeated relapses, where each feels worse than the last. Each time the relapse gets worse, sobriety feels better bin contrast. You begin to feel there is greater risk in relapse, and greater reward in quitting, so slowly over time it's easy to quit.
That's completely different from staying sober, which involves relearning how to cope with the stressesof life and not drink. Thats complicated, imho, by AA which tells us life is better without alcohol. It's the same. You're the same. You just have to work at finding different ways to cope. You can do that with the aid of other forms of therapy. They can guide you but you must do the work and it is harder than staying sick.
Meetings and steps aren't enough, you have to have the willingness to get very uncomfortable, for an indefinite period of time. Nobody tells you that in meetings. They just tell you to follow these steps and you will feel better. But leaving your comfort zone always feels worse. That is why people relapse.
That's completely different from staying sober, which involves relearning how to cope with the stressesof life and not drink. Thats complicated, imho, by AA which tells us life is better without alcohol. It's the same. You're the same. You just have to work at finding different ways to cope. You can do that with the aid of other forms of therapy. They can guide you but you must do the work and it is harder than staying sick.
Meetings and steps aren't enough, you have to have the willingness to get very uncomfortable, for an indefinite period of time. Nobody tells you that in meetings. They just tell you to follow these steps and you will feel better. But leaving your comfort zone always feels worse. That is why people relapse.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by CJHolden
We're addicts. That didn't happen overnight. It took years of repeatedly reinforcing that drinking feels good, to get to a point where it was so hard wired into the brain that we couldn't get enough and couldn't stop. It's going to take more than one cycle of quitting followed by relapse to redo the brain's wiring, to get to where quitting feels better than relapsing.. usually that's reinforced by repeated relapses, where each feels worse than the last. Each time the relapse gets worse, sobriety feels better bin contrast. You begin to feel there is greater risk in relapse, and greater reward in quitting, so slowly over time it's easy to quit.
That's completely different from staying sober, which involves relearning how to cope with the stressesof life and not drink. Thats complicated, imho, by AA which tells us life is better without alcohol. It's the same. You're the same. You just have to work at finding different ways to cope. You can do that with the aid of other forms of therapy. They can guide you but you must do the work and it is harder than staying sick.
Meetings and steps aren't enough, you have to have the willingness to get very uncomfortable, for an indefinite period of time. Nobody tells you that in meetings. They just tell you to follow these steps and you will feel better. But leaving your comfort zone always feels worse. That is why people relapse.
That's completely different from staying sober, which involves relearning how to cope with the stressesof life and not drink. Thats complicated, imho, by AA which tells us life is better without alcohol. It's the same. You're the same. You just have to work at finding different ways to cope. You can do that with the aid of other forms of therapy. They can guide you but you must do the work and it is harder than staying sick.
Meetings and steps aren't enough, you have to have the willingness to get very uncomfortable, for an indefinite period of time. Nobody tells you that in meetings. They just tell you to follow these steps and you will feel better. But leaving your comfort zone always feels worse. That is why people relapse.
They stop working the AA program and/or going to meetings or whatever they were doing which kept the fact a drink isn't an option fresh.
Then one day out of the blue they pick up again.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by CJHolden
We're addicts. That didn't happen overnight. It took years of repeatedly reinforcing that drinking feels good, to get to a point where it was so hard wired into the brain that we couldn't get enough and couldn't stop. It's going to take more than one cycle of quitting followed by relapse to redo the brain's wiring, to get to where quitting feels better than relapsing.. usually that's reinforced by repeated relapses, where each feels worse than the last. Each time the relapse gets worse, sobriety feels better bin contrast. You begin to feel there is greater risk in relapse, and greater reward in quitting, so slowly over time it's easy to quit.
That's completely different from staying sober, which involves relearning how to cope with the stressesof life and not drink. Thats complicated, imho, by AA which tells us life is better without alcohol. It's the same. You're the same. You just have to work at finding different ways to cope. You can do that with the aid of other forms of therapy. They can guide you but you must do the work and it is harder than staying sick.
Meetings and steps aren't enough, you have to have the willingness to get very uncomfortable, for an indefinite period of time. Nobody tells you that in meetings. They just tell you to follow these steps and you will feel better. But leaving your comfort zone always feels worse. That is why people relapse.
That's completely different from staying sober, which involves relearning how to cope with the stressesof life and not drink. Thats complicated, imho, by AA which tells us life is better without alcohol. It's the same. You're the same. You just have to work at finding different ways to cope. You can do that with the aid of other forms of therapy. They can guide you but you must do the work and it is harder than staying sick.
Meetings and steps aren't enough, you have to have the willingness to get very uncomfortable, for an indefinite period of time. Nobody tells you that in meetings. They just tell you to follow these steps and you will feel better. But leaving your comfort zone always feels worse. That is why people relapse.
Also I think that it’s important to tell the truth. Because if we go around saying it’s unicorns and rainbows we start to feel like our brand of sobriety suffering is unique. That “you all” can get sober but you have no idea how I feel and if you felt like I do you wouldn’t be able to either....well newsflash WE ALL FEEL LIKE THAT.
On the other forum I was on everyone was always talking about how fantastic they felt all the time in sobriety and I thought what is wrong with me? Why is it so hard for me?
This time I decided to just walk through fire even if it sucked forever because I didn’t want to die, destroy my reputation completely or devastate my family, so I went through it. It’s a bit better in year 2 but not totally.
Someone asked me tonight “is it better now without the drinking.” I said, “In some ways yes, and in some ways no, but I will continue to stay sober anyway.” She took her half glass of wine that she couldn’t finish to her lips and nodded. Seemed to understand, though she can have as much alcohol as she wants, but struggles to finish a half glass every year. It would be difficult, I realized, to explain the extent of my drinking to this nice woman. There is no way on earth she could ever possibly understand. My 100 units a week, what’s that? 5,200 units a year? To her one unit per year. That’s a level of understanding that’s just inexplicable, but it’s why I stay quit.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by Stayingsassy
Yes yes yes. You speak a lot of truth here. It is harder than being sick. Being sick isn’t easy but it takes no work at all. Sobriety, even if you do no program or AA or rehab and it’s just on your own....is still a boatload of work.
Also I think that it’s important to tell the truth. Because if we go around saying it’s unicorns and rainbows we start to feel like our brand of sobriety suffering is unique. That “you all” can get sober but you have no idea how I feel and if you felt like I do you wouldn’t be able to either....well newsflash WE ALL FEEL LIKE THAT.
On the other forum I was on everyone was always talking about how fantastic they felt all the time in sobriety and I thought what is wrong with me? Why is it so hard for me?
This time I decided to just walk through fire even if it sucked forever because I didn’t want to die, destroy my reputation completely or devastate my family, so I went through it. It’s a bit better in year 2 but not totally.
Someone asked me tonight “is it better now without the drinking.” I said, “In some ways yes, and in some ways no, but I will continue to stay sober anyway.” She took her half glass of wine that she couldn’t finish to her lips and nodded. Seemed to understand, though she can have as much alcohol as she wants, but struggles to finish a half glass every year. It would be difficult, I realized, to explain the extent of my drinking to this nice woman. There is no way on earth she could ever possibly understand. My 100 units a week, what’s that? 5,200 units a year? To her one unit per year. That’s a level of understanding that’s just inexplicable, but it’s why I stay quit.
Also I think that it’s important to tell the truth. Because if we go around saying it’s unicorns and rainbows we start to feel like our brand of sobriety suffering is unique. That “you all” can get sober but you have no idea how I feel and if you felt like I do you wouldn’t be able to either....well newsflash WE ALL FEEL LIKE THAT.
On the other forum I was on everyone was always talking about how fantastic they felt all the time in sobriety and I thought what is wrong with me? Why is it so hard for me?
This time I decided to just walk through fire even if it sucked forever because I didn’t want to die, destroy my reputation completely or devastate my family, so I went through it. It’s a bit better in year 2 but not totally.
Someone asked me tonight “is it better now without the drinking.” I said, “In some ways yes, and in some ways no, but I will continue to stay sober anyway.” She took her half glass of wine that she couldn’t finish to her lips and nodded. Seemed to understand, though she can have as much alcohol as she wants, but struggles to finish a half glass every year. It would be difficult, I realized, to explain the extent of my drinking to this nice woman. There is no way on earth she could ever possibly understand. My 100 units a week, what’s that? 5,200 units a year? To her one unit per year. That’s a level of understanding that’s just inexplicable, but it’s why I stay quit.
Good point. I think what such people may be implying is that life is much better without the ongoing drama of alcoholic drinking/behavior.
Because (imo) anyone who claims to be happy, joyous and free all the time in sobriety is either delusional or lying to themselves and others.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,453
Its a relative thing I think.
I have no trouble in considering myself happy joyous and free... but that doesn't mean I live on Big Rock Candy Mountain with lemonade streams and ice cream trees
My life's better for sure, but not that much better in some ways - but *I* am - and that makes all the difference
D
I have no trouble in considering myself happy joyous and free... but that doesn't mean I live on Big Rock Candy Mountain with lemonade streams and ice cream trees
My life's better for sure, but not that much better in some ways - but *I* am - and that makes all the difference
D
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by MindfulMan
Therapists are trained to have boundaries with their clients and to take care of themselves. That's the only way to.continue.tonhelp.others
The cumulative consensus based on experience was just what MM said. So hard to do for fixers and pleasers like me, and so critical for my own sobriety to maintain it in order to help others.
Some people with a lot more sobriety and more sponsees in their time shared that most of those folks who did drink came back to the AA program. Lots of people talked about being serial relapses. Pretty much everyone agreed that alcoholics are likely to lie, avoid, etc the people trying to help them most, especially if they feel chased. I sure did, and so far, this is my one and only life in sobriety.
Of course - and tragically- some people also talked about those who just didn't or couldn't get sober before something alcohol-induced killed them. Or will.
Your thread also made me think of my teenage (16) step daughter who we are just thinking might have started drinking. Long reason as to the why - but the point here is that this is (sort of) different with a minor child, but still (esp as the step parent) kind of like I have to treat my own sponsee. I can't force her not to drink and that cycle of lying to us, hiding, avoiding etc, could become a "normal teenage thing" (which I'd love not to see but...) or the beginning of her own alcoholism like both her parents and preceding gen.
Take care of you- empathy is a great quality - and learning to use it wisely is tough.
non-drinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 13,846
Originally Posted by Dee74
Its a relative thing I think.
I have no trouble in considering myself happy joyous and free... but that doesn't mean I live on Big Rock Candy Mountain with lemonade streams and ice cream trees
My life's better for sure, but not that much better in some ways - but *I* am - and that makes all the difference
D
I have no trouble in considering myself happy joyous and free... but that doesn't mean I live on Big Rock Candy Mountain with lemonade streams and ice cream trees
My life's better for sure, but not that much better in some ways - but *I* am - and that makes all the difference
D
Sometimes I think others can't figure out why I'm so happy all the time and it bothers them. But I figure that says more about them than it does about me. If they could find the joy that I've found in recovery, they'd be happy too. We just gotta keep doing our thing and maybe some day they will get there too!
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by FormerBeerLover
You took the words right out of my mouth, Dee!
Sometimes I think others can't figure out why I'm so happy all the time and it bothers them. But I figure that says more about them than it does about me. If they could find the joy that I've found in recovery, they'd be happy too. We just gotta keep doing our thing and maybe some day they will get there too!
Sometimes I think others can't figure out why I'm so happy all the time and it bothers them. But I figure that says more about them than it does about me. If they could find the joy that I've found in recovery, they'd be happy too. We just gotta keep doing our thing and maybe some day they will get there too!
But if that's the case more power to you.
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