losing the fear of economic insecurity, in the Promises
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losing the fear of economic insecurity, in the Promises
has this one sincerely materialized for anyone?
Diligent step-work aside, this seems a bit iffy; no matter a person's age or socioeconomic status--whether they live in Beverly Hills or the Bowery-- no matter how much faith in a HP, has this fear ever truly left anyone who has worked the steps?
I'm curious to hear anyone's perspective on this, step-work aside.
Diligent step-work aside, this seems a bit iffy; no matter a person's age or socioeconomic status--whether they live in Beverly Hills or the Bowery-- no matter how much faith in a HP, has this fear ever truly left anyone who has worked the steps?
I'm curious to hear anyone's perspective on this, step-work aside.
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Well I can check my bank balance without wanting to throw up or thinking I'm about to have a heart attack. And I'm always within my overdraft nowadays as well. So, yes. For me it did.
BB
Ps plus I think I understand nowadays that even if I did have loads of money, that would never make as much difference to my life as sobriety can do. I suppose I just don't set as much store in the material stuff as I once did, so it doesn't control my emotions like it did once (I.e. the fear it once filled me with).
BB
Ps plus I think I understand nowadays that even if I did have loads of money, that would never make as much difference to my life as sobriety can do. I suppose I just don't set as much store in the material stuff as I once did, so it doesn't control my emotions like it did once (I.e. the fear it once filled me with).
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Pps. I also know a meeting-maker millionaire who refuses to work the steps til he's made his next million. He is filled with more fear of economic insecurity than anyone I've ever met, even though he's not really in any danger of losing what he has. But then, since when is fear rational and reasonable?
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I don't know, a certain amount of economic discomfort is reasonable, I think. It keeps us from living in denial and/or under a bridge or in a tent.
I think more to the point is that with spiritual freedom comes the knowledge that money isn't everything, and that my needs will be met, as they have been all my life as long as I am doing the right thing(s).
I think more to the point is that with spiritual freedom comes the knowledge that money isn't everything, and that my needs will be met, as they have been all my life as long as I am doing the right thing(s).
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been a long time since ive heard this promise mentioned and good to know what it means.
what i was taught is it means i will not worry about material needs. i will be content with what i have and that wealth isnt measured by dollar signs. i will value what cant be bought and realize material consumption is an endless bottomless pit.
plus to remember it is FEAR of it- not financial insecurity itself.
MATERIAL AND SPIRITUAL WELL-BEING
Fear . . . of economic insecurity will leave us.
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 84
Having fear reduced or eliminated and having economic circumstances improve, are two different things. When I was new in A.A., I had those two ideas confused. I thought fear would leave me only when I started making money. However, another line from the Big Book jumped off the page one day when I was chewing on my financial difficulties: "For us, material well-being always followed spiritual progress; it never preceded." (p. 127). I suddenly understood that this promise was a guarantee. I saw that it put priorities in the correct order, that spiritual progress would diminish that terrible fear of being destitute, just as it diminished many other fears.
Today I try to use the talents God gave me to benefit others. I've found that is what others valued all along. I try to remember that I no longer work for myself. I only get the use of the wealth God created, I never have "owned" it. My life's purpose is much clearer when I just work to help, not to possess.
what i was taught is it means i will not worry about material needs. i will be content with what i have and that wealth isnt measured by dollar signs. i will value what cant be bought and realize material consumption is an endless bottomless pit.
plus to remember it is FEAR of it- not financial insecurity itself.
MATERIAL AND SPIRITUAL WELL-BEING
Fear . . . of economic insecurity will leave us.
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 84
Having fear reduced or eliminated and having economic circumstances improve, are two different things. When I was new in A.A., I had those two ideas confused. I thought fear would leave me only when I started making money. However, another line from the Big Book jumped off the page one day when I was chewing on my financial difficulties: "For us, material well-being always followed spiritual progress; it never preceded." (p. 127). I suddenly understood that this promise was a guarantee. I saw that it put priorities in the correct order, that spiritual progress would diminish that terrible fear of being destitute, just as it diminished many other fears.
Today I try to use the talents God gave me to benefit others. I've found that is what others valued all along. I try to remember that I no longer work for myself. I only get the use of the wealth God created, I never have "owned" it. My life's purpose is much clearer when I just work to help, not to possess.
ours de petit cerveau
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Originally Posted by daredevil 
money not being everything is disparate from the fear of economic insecurity.
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Although financial recovery is on the way for many of us, we found we could not place money first. For us, material well-being always followed spiritual progress; it never preceded.
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When I first came into the rooms I didn't really believe that ANY of those steps could come true for me. I read them like I might do an advertisement, and dismissed them as just as unlikely to be true. So, I was pretty shocked to find them slowly coming true for me.
The one that seemed most elusive for the longest time in my case was the one about not regretting the past or wishing to shut the door on it. I must admit it still comes and goes, but I've have enough instances where I've felt it come true for short periods now that I trust this will become more and more the case if I continue to work on my recovery,
BB
The one that seemed most elusive for the longest time in my case was the one about not regretting the past or wishing to shut the door on it. I must admit it still comes and goes, but I've have enough instances where I've felt it come true for short periods now that I trust this will become more and more the case if I continue to work on my recovery,
BB
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I notice you've been posting a lot of very theoretical/semantic/circular questions daredevil. They can certainly shed light on some issues surrounding sobriety and life in general, but there is also the danger of "overthinking" things. The old "paralysis by analysis" adage so to speak.
Like Berry suggested, sometimes it's best to just follow the path and see where it leads you.
I had similar struggles with my anxiety...and in many cases my quest for knowledge or a concrete "answer" actually made everything worse.
Like Berry suggested, sometimes it's best to just follow the path and see where it leads you.
I had similar struggles with my anxiety...and in many cases my quest for knowledge or a concrete "answer" actually made everything worse.
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I find it interesting that the term "insecurity" only appears twice in the Big Book: page 84 as referenced by tomsteve, and on page 19.
But not so with the alcoholic illness, for with it there goes annihilation of all the things worth while in life. It engulfs all whose lives touch the sufferer's. It brings misunderstanding, fierce resentment, financial insecurity, disgusted friends and employers, warped lives of blameless children, sad wives and parents—anyone can increase the list.
Alcoholism brings with it the actual state of financial insecurity. Recovery removes the fear of that state. For those of us whose drinking was fear based, that promise is delivered.
But not so with the alcoholic illness, for with it there goes annihilation of all the things worth while in life. It engulfs all whose lives touch the sufferer's. It brings misunderstanding, fierce resentment, financial insecurity, disgusted friends and employers, warped lives of blameless children, sad wives and parents—anyone can increase the list.
Alcoholism brings with it the actual state of financial insecurity. Recovery removes the fear of that state. For those of us whose drinking was fear based, that promise is delivered.
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I am dealing with major issues regarding finances. The anxiety grabs my throat every night. All because of alcohol. But if you win this battle, and it may not be a battle, if you get over it it will be a victory or baby steps it will be another milestone to a full recovery.
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Originally Posted by daredevil
I am working the steps Berrybean, but I really do wonder if this fear of economic insecurity *ever* goes away, spiritual progress notwithstanding.
Although it is reliant on us maintaining that condition and maintaining our recovery. We don't just get this stuff happen and we stay that way without any effort. I don't mind that though. The recovery maintenance work takes up FAR less energy than living with all that fear used to.
BB
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My experience has been that I've learned how to handle fear more logically, period. Not fear of....fill in the blank. But fear in general. I've learned that true fear has very little place in my day to day life.
I'm an awfulizer/castrophizer. Oh my GAWD ALL is LOST. Black and white, all or nothing thinking. Also the kind of thinking that gets way ahead of itself....way out into the what ifs and the unknowns. That crap drives me nuts. Which creates fear, which creates stress, which muddles my thinking, makes me reactive and next thing I know...I'm very thirsty.
So its not that insecurities go away per se, its that FEAR of them does. I have an example (hehe). So just puttering around my yard and I look up at the roof (something I rarely do because its a roof, should be fine forever right....its like the concrete or the gutters....I'm a girl. I just don't look at that stuff) and I see lots of green stuff. What is that, she asks? Why its moss. Moss should be there right? So I look in the bedroom (door always closed...my house is too big) and OH NO, leaking where the moss is. Now normally I'd flip out. How am I going to pay for this? What am I going to do? Help mayday mayday. But I didn't. Well it took 3 months, 2 letters from my 'attorney' (that would be me faking to be an attorney....that probably isn't actually legal but who cares) and insurance is covering it. And bonus, I got a roofer to do it for less (even after my deductible and depreciation of material...I'm an expert now btw) so I can get at least part of my concrete redone (that was also supposed to last forever). My house is 20 years old and pretty much everything is deciding to die on me. And I'm a widow and I'm unemployed. Oops. Oh well. Oh and college soon for the kid. Oh and .....I'll handle it. One step at a time. Fear does nothing but mess me up.
I'm an awfulizer/castrophizer. Oh my GAWD ALL is LOST. Black and white, all or nothing thinking. Also the kind of thinking that gets way ahead of itself....way out into the what ifs and the unknowns. That crap drives me nuts. Which creates fear, which creates stress, which muddles my thinking, makes me reactive and next thing I know...I'm very thirsty.
So its not that insecurities go away per se, its that FEAR of them does. I have an example (hehe). So just puttering around my yard and I look up at the roof (something I rarely do because its a roof, should be fine forever right....its like the concrete or the gutters....I'm a girl. I just don't look at that stuff) and I see lots of green stuff. What is that, she asks? Why its moss. Moss should be there right? So I look in the bedroom (door always closed...my house is too big) and OH NO, leaking where the moss is. Now normally I'd flip out. How am I going to pay for this? What am I going to do? Help mayday mayday. But I didn't. Well it took 3 months, 2 letters from my 'attorney' (that would be me faking to be an attorney....that probably isn't actually legal but who cares) and insurance is covering it. And bonus, I got a roofer to do it for less (even after my deductible and depreciation of material...I'm an expert now btw) so I can get at least part of my concrete redone (that was also supposed to last forever). My house is 20 years old and pretty much everything is deciding to die on me. And I'm a widow and I'm unemployed. Oops. Oh well. Oh and college soon for the kid. Oh and .....I'll handle it. One step at a time. Fear does nothing but mess me up.
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Join Date: Nov 2017
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I believe Jack, from Jack and the Beanstalk must have been an alcoholic 
I think the cure of AA is in it's tools to help the addict achieve a clarity and mental/physical/spiritual alignment. Individual to each person. Alcoholics can be wealthy and sober people can be paupers, however I think by and large, you see more alcoholics, who make poor fiscal decisions. Those are addiction driven, muddled brain driven., cycles of poverty, but when you remove the addiction, when the mental clarity returns, more sound decisions, can be made and by default, the fear of economic instability can be relieved. As relationships become repaired, as priorities realign, where there might previously have been an instability in business, work relationships, this will certainly improve, and fears can subside.
I think when you look at sobriety as a series of measured improvements, this might be one that takes longer. I believe it is one that happens after sincere spiritual and mental work. It is individual to each person, what might be a fear to one person is A-OK with someone else. Some have not lost as much as others and to some what is a significant loss, is a drop in the bucket. If we work at sobriety and work at the steps, whether in AA, on our own, we can strip away many of the fears that kept us chained to drinking. I think that working the steps and I don't necessarily believe it has to be done formally, but using them as a guideline will lead to a course of self realisation, which in turn will lead to us letting go of fears, conquering them if you will.
I think the cure of AA is in it's tools to help the addict achieve a clarity and mental/physical/spiritual alignment. Individual to each person. Alcoholics can be wealthy and sober people can be paupers, however I think by and large, you see more alcoholics, who make poor fiscal decisions. Those are addiction driven, muddled brain driven., cycles of poverty, but when you remove the addiction, when the mental clarity returns, more sound decisions, can be made and by default, the fear of economic instability can be relieved. As relationships become repaired, as priorities realign, where there might previously have been an instability in business, work relationships, this will certainly improve, and fears can subside.
I think when you look at sobriety as a series of measured improvements, this might be one that takes longer. I believe it is one that happens after sincere spiritual and mental work. It is individual to each person, what might be a fear to one person is A-OK with someone else. Some have not lost as much as others and to some what is a significant loss, is a drop in the bucket. If we work at sobriety and work at the steps, whether in AA, on our own, we can strip away many of the fears that kept us chained to drinking. I think that working the steps and I don't necessarily believe it has to be done formally, but using them as a guideline will lead to a course of self realisation, which in turn will lead to us letting go of fears, conquering them if you will.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Originally Posted by Berrybean
When I first came into the rooms I didn't really believe that ANY of those steps could come true for me. I read them like I might do an advertisement, and dismissed them as just as unlikely to be true. So, I was pretty shocked to find them slowly coming true for me.
The one that seemed most elusive for the longest time in my case was the one about not regretting the past or wishing to shut the door on it. I must admit it still comes and goes, but I've have enough instances where I've felt it come true for short periods now that I trust this will become more and more the case if I continue to work on my recovery,
BB
The one that seemed most elusive for the longest time in my case was the one about not regretting the past or wishing to shut the door on it. I must admit it still comes and goes, but I've have enough instances where I've felt it come true for short periods now that I trust this will become more and more the case if I continue to work on my recovery,
BB
It really brings a sense of peace and "OKness" with l / Life that I love.
I'm glad you are feeling it, as it is amazing.
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