losing the fear of economic insecurity, in the Promises
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
been a long time since ive heard this promise mentioned and good to know what it means.
what i was taught is it means i will not worry about material needs. i will be content with what i have and that wealth isnt measured by dollar signs. i will value what cant be bought and realize material consumption is an endless bottomless pit.
plus to remember it is FEAR of it- not financial insecurity itself.
MATERIAL AND SPIRITUAL WELL-BEING
Fear . . . of economic insecurity will leave us.
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 84
Having fear reduced or eliminated and having economic circumstances improve, are two different things. When I was new in A.A., I had those two ideas confused. I thought fear would leave me only when I started making money. However, another line from the Big Book jumped off the page one day when I was chewing on my financial difficulties: "For us, material well-being always followed spiritual progress; it never preceded." (p. 127). I suddenly understood that this promise was a guarantee. I saw that it put priorities in the correct order, that spiritual progress would diminish that terrible fear of being destitute, just as it diminished many other fears.
Today I try to use the talents God gave me to benefit others. I've found that is what others valued all along. I try to remember that I no longer work for myself. I only get the use of the wealth God created, I never have "owned" it. My life's purpose is much clearer when I just work to help, not to possess.
what i was taught is it means i will not worry about material needs. i will be content with what i have and that wealth isnt measured by dollar signs. i will value what cant be bought and realize material consumption is an endless bottomless pit.
plus to remember it is FEAR of it- not financial insecurity itself.
MATERIAL AND SPIRITUAL WELL-BEING
Fear . . . of economic insecurity will leave us.
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 84
Having fear reduced or eliminated and having economic circumstances improve, are two different things. When I was new in A.A., I had those two ideas confused. I thought fear would leave me only when I started making money. However, another line from the Big Book jumped off the page one day when I was chewing on my financial difficulties: "For us, material well-being always followed spiritual progress; it never preceded." (p. 127). I suddenly understood that this promise was a guarantee. I saw that it put priorities in the correct order, that spiritual progress would diminish that terrible fear of being destitute, just as it diminished many other fears.
Today I try to use the talents God gave me to benefit others. I've found that is what others valued all along. I try to remember that I no longer work for myself. I only get the use of the wealth God created, I never have "owned" it. My life's purpose is much clearer when I just work to help, not to possess.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by tomsteve
Although financial recovery is on the way for many of us, we found we could not place money first. For us, material well-being always followed spiritual progress; it never preceded.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 166
I was also very skeptical of this claim when I first saw it quoted by someone on these boards. With time, however, I came to realize what money symbolized for me: escape from reality. Money and booze were pretty interchangeable in my mind and I relied heavily on thinking of myself as having enough money to say "f*** you world" and "do my own thing" (i.e., drink a lot). Surprisingly, this mentality led to some life issues and ultimately, money issues.
With a little time under my belt, I can see what I really value in my existence--health; working hard; being independent; respecting myself. Maybe getting a little respect from World, maybe not. But the response to financial insecurity is no longer 1) getting angry; 2) getting depressed; 3) drinking; 4) stressing; 5) avoiding & creating more financial problems.
With a little time under my belt, I can see what I really value in my existence--health; working hard; being independent; respecting myself. Maybe getting a little respect from World, maybe not. But the response to financial insecurity is no longer 1) getting angry; 2) getting depressed; 3) drinking; 4) stressing; 5) avoiding & creating more financial problems.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
TS -- I love this: I try to remember that I no longer work for myself. I only get the use of the wealth God created, I never have "owned" it. My life's purpose is much clearer when I just work to help, not to possess.
DD: I was chatting with my therapist the other day about some other issues I have and she reminded me that the order is:
- Thinking
- Acting
- Feeling
Folks like me are wanting the feeling before they act, but it don't work like that.
You are never going to feel like it.
So am I am not a steps person, but I do think some of the most mentally healthy people I know are those that have worked them with a good sponsor.
As others have said, why not?? I think I am going to give it a go, and I stopped drinking a long time ago.
DD: I was chatting with my therapist the other day about some other issues I have and she reminded me that the order is:
- Thinking
- Acting
- Feeling
Folks like me are wanting the feeling before they act, but it don't work like that.
You are never going to feel like it.
So am I am not a steps person, but I do think some of the most mentally healthy people I know are those that have worked them with a good sponsor.
As others have said, why not?? I think I am going to give it a go, and I stopped drinking a long time ago.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
As the universe would have it, I just picked up a great book that I would highly recommend to anyone who has psychological issues around money, which I do big time.
Called Mind Over Money, and it is excellent. Get it.
Called Mind Over Money, and it is excellent. Get it.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
The answer to fear is faith, something I developed through experience acquired in the course of the AA manner of living. There are something like 160 promises in the book, good things that happened when they followed directions, and bad things that happened when they didn't.
The third step has a great promise, really relating to the fruits of carrying through on the third step decision. This has always come true for me. It goes like "We had a new employer. Being all powerful He provides what we need if we stay close to Him and perform His work well" It tells me all will be ok, and what I need to do to stay that way. Part of that is step 9 amends, the other part may be the deal we made in the third step prayer, our part being to bear witness through how we live our lives, to His power, His Love, and His way of life.
The third step has a great promise, really relating to the fruits of carrying through on the third step decision. This has always come true for me. It goes like "We had a new employer. Being all powerful He provides what we need if we stay close to Him and perform His work well" It tells me all will be ok, and what I need to do to stay that way. Part of that is step 9 amends, the other part may be the deal we made in the third step prayer, our part being to bear witness through how we live our lives, to His power, His Love, and His way of life.
The Long and Winding Road....
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brisbane QLD
Posts: 897
I am not in the best shape financially at present.
substantial debts and no job.
however if i have faith in recovery, stay sober odaat and work the program things will sort out fine.
might take a awhile but i don't set the clock.
the great spirit does.
i let it do what it does, and i do my best, we work together,
just for today i have replaced fear and neurosis with fortitude and faith
substantial debts and no job.
however if i have faith in recovery, stay sober odaat and work the program things will sort out fine.
might take a awhile but i don't set the clock.
the great spirit does.
i let it do what it does, and i do my best, we work together,
just for today i have replaced fear and neurosis with fortitude and faith
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by daredevil
I am working the steps Berrybean, but I really do wonder if this fear of economic insecurity *ever* goes away, spiritual progress notwithstanding.
I had to train myself to focus on assessing what I needed right then (now) and learn to believe that if I kept up my end of the deal, working my program, this part would take care of itself.
I might not be describing my acceptance- settling into- this area well, but I know that I have found comfort in trusting my HP, even when I couldn't see an answer or a next step at the time.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
I read a quote by mooji "there can be great poverty in wealth and great wealthy in poverty"
I've met some poor folks who where great people great fathers and in early sobriety i was in awe at how happy some of these folks could be yet i had so much and could be so miserable.
I dont have much fear about enconomic insecurity for myself alone. I'll wonder homeless and eat peoples table scraps as they leave a resturant. there aint no shame in my game. I'd like to think i might even enjoy the adventure aspect of it and the liberating feeling of nothing being tied down becuase of societal norms etc..
But here is where my fear comes in. I fear economic insecurity for my wife and kids sake. They dont have the same mindset I do and would suffer from it. I'd then suffer simply becuase I'd feel bad for them.
Some of the zen stuff i read would tell me I'm too attached perhaps. and That is likely true but they are my wife and kids its sorta tough to not be.
I can look at it another way tho and think welp if it comes to that it comes to that. if they walk out from me over it so be it. I just have to be happy with what is.
its all easier said then done. So yeah being destitute all alone doesnt really seem to phase me fear wise. sure i'd have to stomach being without some creature comforts but i'd adapt and be fine. But my wife and kids?
I've met some poor folks who where great people great fathers and in early sobriety i was in awe at how happy some of these folks could be yet i had so much and could be so miserable.
I dont have much fear about enconomic insecurity for myself alone. I'll wonder homeless and eat peoples table scraps as they leave a resturant. there aint no shame in my game. I'd like to think i might even enjoy the adventure aspect of it and the liberating feeling of nothing being tied down becuase of societal norms etc..
But here is where my fear comes in. I fear economic insecurity for my wife and kids sake. They dont have the same mindset I do and would suffer from it. I'd then suffer simply becuase I'd feel bad for them.
Some of the zen stuff i read would tell me I'm too attached perhaps. and That is likely true but they are my wife and kids its sorta tough to not be.
I can look at it another way tho and think welp if it comes to that it comes to that. if they walk out from me over it so be it. I just have to be happy with what is.
its all easier said then done. So yeah being destitute all alone doesnt really seem to phase me fear wise. sure i'd have to stomach being without some creature comforts but i'd adapt and be fine. But my wife and kids?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by daredevil
I am working the steps Berrybean, but I really do wonder if this fear of economic insecurity *ever* goes away, spiritual progress notwithstanding.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 1,021
I don't know about God, or working the Steps, but if I'm not making smart decisions about my chosen career and finances and then rolling up my sleeves and working hard, day in and day out, I will probably never experience economic security.
And if I'm drinking, I'll never be able to make smart decisions and consistently work hard.
And if I'm drinking, I'll never be able to make smart decisions and consistently work hard.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Denmark
Posts: 257
This has been my first winter since sobering up and working the steps, and i do feel a huge difference. I am a landscape gardener, meaning work is really low in winter and I've hardly had any income since new years, also because of stupid decisions I made in the past i dropped out of my unemployment insurance, meaning i really earned no money at all when not working... but I haven't really worried much, even though I have been pretty broke all winter and had to dig deep into my savings to manage my pills, evne postpone a few... My mindset just changed; if I can fix the problem, no need to worry, just deal with it in the best possible way. Wanted to buy a few things I cannot afford? Just forget it and get on... I need to phone a few creditors and get my bills delayed? No worry, most understand perfectly when I honestly explain my situation...
Before often got so bugged down in financial worries I made awful decisions because the worries kept me from thinking straight. Like, taking expensive online loans to pay bills and that sort of stuff. Still paying on those debts now...
I have a awful lot of stuff in my life at the moment I could worry about if I let myself worry about it, but luckily I've learned ways of keeping the worries off my mind, and try to deal with things in the best possible way
Before often got so bugged down in financial worries I made awful decisions because the worries kept me from thinking straight. Like, taking expensive online loans to pay bills and that sort of stuff. Still paying on those debts now...
I have a awful lot of stuff in my life at the moment I could worry about if I let myself worry about it, but luckily I've learned ways of keeping the worries off my mind, and try to deal with things in the best possible way
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