stevieg46

Well said Tammy .

Personally I went from dry drunk to drunk , from alcoholic to recovering alcoholic to recovered .

If following the suggested path as best as you can, then it is a process of growth improving our understanding being teachable , Step 11 talks about ''improving our conscious contact '' improving means to grow and we keep on growing on a spiritual path never ending on and on . Why is this difficult to understand the more effort that we put in the more we benefit and improve , why stick with recovering . Obviously it depends on where individuals are in the recovery program it is a learning process and takes time .

I try and carry the message by saying ''I have recovered '' as the Big Book says that is the AA message and only message . People interpret things differently that is their own personal choice I have no objections to that, live and let live . Newcomers need to understand what is on offer , it is my objective to outline that . take care .

Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 . if a man hears a different drummer let him march to the drum he hears

ScottFromWI

Last reminder to keep personal arguments or disputes about recovery ideals out of the open forums.

PennyLane76

Who cares if it's recovery vs recovered as long as you are sober? That's the way I look at it

freshstart57

I apologize if my tone has given the wrong idea as to my intent. I am not promulgating my point of view, nor am I disputing anyone else. There are no attacks intended in my words. I want to see what I am missing.

silentrun

I don't know that you are missing anything. My view on it is that I consider myself basically recovered from the whole alcohol fiasco. I am not leaving the door open by saying it is possible I will screw up at a later date. I just know I have to be aware if I start BSing myself again or it could possibly happen. As long as I stay on top of that I am fine. I know the way you state it is part of the RR method and I think that determination does work for many people. That was mostly how I quit. I think people just have different definitions of the word. Some have suggested that a person that would use the term recovered thinks they can drink again. By that person's definition I would not call myself recovered, by mine I do.

Gottalife

FS, I will try and explain, from my experience, an answer to your very valid questions.

The AA program as laid out in the book, has a single method of recovery. Conversion experience, brought about by taking all twelve steps. The complete psychic change that Silkworth talked about.

In the fellowship, however, we are free to do what we like. We have basically three groups, Conversionists, socialization, and psychology.
The latter two may use some of the steps, but rely heavily on meetings and self help/group therapy type approaches. Many can get away with a lot less than the full program, or at least that's how it looks.

For an alcoholic like me, the steps were the only feasible approach.
One day at a time, just for today etc were sayings I heard when I first arrived. They were designed to help me with a very specific problem. I had a totally screwed up view of life and time. All my experience to date was that sobriety was horrible. The sober life looked a terrifying prospect, a black hole about which I knew nothing. I couldn't drink safely but I couldn't see how I could stay sober for more than a few days.

I looked around the fellowship and saw people with incredible lengths of sobriety, 3 months, 6 months, one even had 18 months. These terms were inconcieveable to me. So it was just for today while I got on with the steps. This distorted concept of time combined with past experience of sobriety meant I really had to focus on just today, while I found my way towards a conversion experience.

In early AA, the journey from newly sober to conversion was usually accomplished within a few weeks. It takes longer these days for reasons I won't go into.

At the 90 day mark, I had my conversion experience. The whole world seemed to change. The blackhole of sobriety ceased to exist, a warm and welcoming world took its place. Full of nice people and opportunity, and there was a place in it for me. I have no problem committing to this world for the rest of my life. Through the conversion experience a complete psychic change occured, the obsession was removed, I felt OK about my self, and the "I'm not drinking just for today", that helped me so much in the first part, became redundant.

Like someone said earlier about appendicitis and having the appendix removed, in AA we believe the main problem centres in the mind, the mental obsession. That obsession is removed completely, through the steps.

I think someone who has recovered by means of spiritual/conversion experience will have views on permanent sobriety not too dissimilar from your own. A complete new set of attitudes and ideas have taken over.

I hope that is of some help.

freshstart57

Thank you, Mike. I understand and I truly appreciate your point of view. Congratulations to you.

PixieD

Gottalife, Thank you for that explanation from an AAers point. This is the 1st time i've read a post on this site where i didnt feel the AA info was being shoved down my throat in a preachy " its my way or the highway" if you want to get sober & stay sober view. I Respect everyones method to healing as i have my own which is working & i sense your sincerity in trying to get others to understand that as well. I do lean towards FS thought process however at least i now understand more of what aa believes. More knowledge never hurt anyone!

Tommyh

recovered alkie here
my sanity has been returned and the causes and conditions of my drinking have been removed
thank you AA

Outonthetiles

I didn't see thisisme's post until this weekend, but I really like it.
We are superior. We recognized a problem in our lives and took affirmative steps to correct it, even though it would be easier to just keep drinking. We took a difficult path and decided to fight addiction.
We are the glory of our times.
We are modern miracles.
It pays to survive.

Vandermast

To clarify for you...it is easy to rest on one laurels if one is not careful..if indeed a real alcoholic you would need to perhaps consider that a long time between drinks is no insurance that if you drink again you will have any control over it...have a look around on this forum and explore the anecdotal evidence dear sir..it would serve you well.

All the best

Van

Mountainmanbob

if you drink again will you have any control over it ?

Proven that to myself over and over again.

Consider myself recovered -- until I pick up a drink.
Consider myself in recovery - until I pick up a drink.

ESV
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”

M-Bob

freshstart57

I am no different, a drink for me would be disaster, and that is why my recovery has no alcohol in it. No alcohol = recovered.

The difference is that I simply don't worry about it any more. I don't worry about things that won't happen. I understand that there is a need for some to worry about it, to worry about the IFs or the UNTILs. Just not me. That's it.

Vandermast

am doing everything I can not to

om mani padme um

vandermast

Dropsie

Wanted to share something that happened to me yesterday.

I have had no desire to drink at all.

But yesterday had a crisis with my EX about our 11 year old daughter and out of the blue I wanted to drink. Not the feeling of drinking or the escape, just the fact of drinking.

I think its a control thing. I felt I had no control over something that was so important to me, equals drinking to try and regain that feeling of control. Plus he was always a trigger for me, which is why I stayed with the sociopath so long, but that is another story (and boring).

Turns out that I do still have at least one trigger.

And thanks to you good people, I learned a lesson instead of having a drink.

But the point is -- I wanted one -- it was automatic.

Which teaches me again that I am an addict.

Its a good reminder.

JeffreyAK

I expect there might be occasional rare triggers for me for the rest of my life, though I haven't felt one in two years (that was around the 3 year point, I got a great job offer and felt very proud of myself, which was slightly triggering for an afternoon) and perhaps they do eventually go down to never.

It's a learned response thing, chemical connections in our brains that can persist dormant for a long time. I reckon, if I had spent years slapping myself every time I felt happy or sad, and every time I sat in a bar or airport, then feeling particularly happy or sad, or sitting in bars or airports, would cause me to want to slap myself.