LiveInPeace

Thank you. that's what I was thinking, too. It's hard to decipher tone of voice in email. I find that with text messages too.

LiveInPeace

Lol tomsteve! :-) I guess the posts crossed. But I knew I could count on you for offering sound advice. It was hard to pick up the phone, but I did and left a brief voicemail. I think when we end up talking, it will be the deciding phone call of where things stand.

biminiblue

Well, the steps are (IMO) to serve many different purposes, but the main two being #1. To help me draw closer to and to trust my HP. and #2. To humble me.

I think people with serious trauma already are beat down. As you alluded in one of your posts in this thread, you are very much concerned (due to your past) with saying and doing the right things to keep from being perceived as a person of lower value. That came from your past. That is not who you are and that is not who God created you to be. That was put on you by someone. That person or people were wrong. You are a child of God and you have all the same rights as I do, as your sponsor does, as your Mother does, and anyone else. You also know yourself better than anyone else on the planet will ever know you. God knows your heart. He knew you when you were in the womb. He knows everything about you and He knows how to heal whatever needs to be healed in you. Trust Him/Her/It.

With that in mind, the part about the steps that don't sit well with me (I'm also a trauma victim) is that a sponsor sometimes thinks or takes it on herself to become your boss, or your fixer, or your guide to the Universe. She is none of those things. She doesn't even know you.

The second part is that becoming humble is not really something a trauma victim needs to "learn" how to do. It was already a huge part of my personality and psyche - I was so downtrodden as a trauma victim that I didn't even feel I had any power left. This is where the HP picks me up. This is where He holds me up. This is where I stand up to sponsors, teachers, mothers, bosses, and others who would trample me if I let them. This is where a sponsor can be harmful - because a trauma victim is coming from a place of victim status, and trying to "see my part in it" is not helpful when it comes to abuse or major trauma. Sponsors who aren't coming from that place cannot possibly understand the difference. Sure, some victim stances are just silly, but some are rape, incest, physical beatings, domestic violence, imprisonment, catastrophic loss, cults, alcoholic parents, etc. This background needs therapeutic professional help. Sponsors don't belong in this arena, but they sometimes try to jump in there anyway.


I hope you do take your power back - from whoever abused or hurt you in your past, and from sponsors who are nothing more than friends with good intentions and poor education on a lot of this.

You have the power to heal your life. You. Keep seeking.

Db1105

I suggest that you read AAWS Panphlet 'Questions and Answers on Sponsorship'.
You can read it online at ;
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-15_Q&AonSpon.pdf

Gottalife

Maybe modern sponsorship is over rated. In your position LIP, I might step back a while from any formal sponsorship arrangement and maybe develop some deeper communication with one or two respected members who have taken the steps and recovered. I haven't had a sponsor for years, but I do have a few close AA friends to whom I turn if in need of some counsel concerning my practice of the AA program.

But I cannot do the AA program alone. Certain parts can be done in isolation, but other parts either require the involvement of others, or are foolish to attempt without wise counsel. It can be done without a sponsor, but not on our own.

Step 5 can and probably should be done with anyone other than an AA member. Step 9 requires wise counsel, preferably by someone who knows you and your circumstances well, and of course it involves other people. Step 12 involves working with others. In fact if you want to stay sober long term, working with others (being a sponsor) is vital.

It is maybe easier to be a sponsor if you have been sponsored, but not, it would seem, if your sponsor is as far off beam as she seems to be. That kind of sponsorship is not coming from the book, but it maybe coming from the way she was sponsored.

Ya gotta watch out for "my sponsor says" and check it against "my book says". If the two line up, ya got a good sponsor.

Berrybean

Maybe she wasn't busy in the morning, but WAS busy when you called her. Aren't you different amounts of busy at different times?

So where one the steps are you now? Did you do your 5th step with her already, or did that get put on hold? Also, out of interest, is this lady someone who is an experienced sponsor? Has she guided any / many other people through the steps?

Sometimes when I'm nursing a resentment (even little ones) towards someone, it makes it very hard - almost impossible, to see things from their side, or hear what they're saying without reading negative connotations into their words. Have you tried saying a resentment prayer about it? (I sometimes need to do this a number of times before the resentment lifts). I often found at these times that my willfulness had taken advantage of the distraction that fear; anger; and shame had created, and had snuck in and hijacked my willingness - and if we're not wiling there is nothing any sponsor can do for us. It never hurts to pray for knowledge of Gods will and the power to carry - every day - but especially when you're feeling as you are at the moment.


God, I have a resentment towards X that I want to be free of.
So I am asking you to give X everything I want for myself.
Help me feel compassion; understanding and love for X.
I pray that X will receive everything they need.
Thankyou for your help and strength with this resentment.


God, help me to accept that people may be unreasonable and self-centred. Let me forgive them anyway.
Help me to accept that if I’m kind, people may accuse me of ulterior motives. Let me be kind anyway.
Help me to accept that if I find happiness, people may be jealous. Let me be happy anyway.
Help me to accept that the good I do today may be forgotten tomorrow. Let me do good anyway.
Help me to accept that I may give the world my best, and it may never be good enough. Let me give my best anyway.
God, help me to remember that it is between you and me. It was never between me and them anyway.

tomsteve

i find it wild how that phone, when reaching out for help, can seem heavy, yet when i was drunk, pretty easy to pick it up and make myself sound like a blubbering fool

LiveInPeace

Yes! All good points. I also view the steps as #3. To see the truth and the lies.

Yes good point. I am certainly not looking for a sponsor who pities me for my past because that won't get me anywhere. But I was looking for a sponsor who we could have a mature, mutually respectful sponsor to sponsee relationship. Someone who could help me work the steps and get close to God. But not someone who treats me like I'm of lower value, like you wrote.

This was very helpful and something I need to remember.

Yes I get that. She didn't like it when I didn't do what she said, and she refused to hear why I have difficulty taking action. I don't not take action to be stubborn or childish. It's due to my depression/anxiety. It's hard to explain. It's mostly now that I can't do Step 11. She refuses to listen or discuss. I can't sit in the silence. It's almost PTSD like. I don't want to hear my abuser's voice in my head. I have meditated a handful of times in the past, but ever since my therapist wanted me to work on my unresolved anger with my abuser, I just can't do it. The can of worms is still out there.

Yes she doesn't know me. But she often acts like she does. She is often very wrong with what she says or thinks about me and that built up a resentment.

YES this was so helpful. I had to become humble with certain areas of my life, but definitely not in regards to abusive family members!!!

She did not suffer child abuse so she didn't get it. Nor did another person who temporarily was helping me with column 4 on Step 5. They kept trying to get me to see where *I* acted out with my abuser, which was harmful toward me. They also tried to make me see that I was "selfish" because I wanted her to act differently. My therapist told me how I acted like a child was completely normal. He also said that this is where AA can only go so far. And he's in AA himself. When my therapist offered to talk to her on the phone about my situation and how to handle it going forward, she refused.

Sometimes I wonder if trauma victims are the ones who don't make it in AA. How can we be told to treat someone with love, kindness, and tolerance after what we went through?! I read somewhere online, forget where, that love, kindness, and tolerance can be very harmful if dealing with someone with a personality disorder who uses it against you. Yup, that would be my abuser.

Thank you, I already have taken my power back from the person from my past, with the help of my since retired therapist who "got it", but I had therapists in the past who didn't get it and said things that caused a lot more harm than good. This person has no power in my life anymore and is pretty much not in my life anymore.

I will try. Thank you.

LiveInPeace

Thanks Mike. I am stepping back. I have tried to develop deeper communication with a couple of other respected recovered members but it seems the women are shut off but the men aren't, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with having communication with men. I'd rather it be with women just because I don't want my husband being uncomfortable. One of the men I talked to on the phone told me point blank I should not be making amends before talking to someone first. It pisses me off that the women aren't returning my calls about amends and that my sponsor fired me in the middle of Step 9. I wish I had female friends in AA to talk to. I do have one, but she's still on Step 4 and has a lot of issues right now so I don't want to burden her. Interestingly enough, a few weeks ago she stopped working with her sponsor and is now working with my former one. I can't help but wonder if my sponsor got enough out of me for her own Step 12 and is now moving on to working with my friend.

I agree and good point. Then again I had one person who used to go to this home group, who I call in real "desperate" times (like maybe 3 times over 3 years) and he basically said "F*ck those people who are using you for their own benefit/Step 12. Trust God; don't trust other people. You don't need them. God is the only sponsor you really need." I know he's right. He always is good about taking me back to God, but I struggle with that when I need to seek God most.

The longer I've been in program, the more I see this about Step 5. I trusted my sponsor. If now things remain on poor terms, how do I know she won't keep things from my Step 5 quiet? I put my faith in her that she would.

"STEP 9 REQUIRES WISE COUNSEL, PREFERABLY BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS YOU AND YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES WELL." Bingo. This is why I cannot believe she fired me when I was just getting started with my Step 9 and that she couldn't really care less if anyone is available to sponsor me.

Interestingly enough, this is a book-strong meeting... I don't know her sponsor--she moved. She doesn't talk much about how she was sponsored. She claims her sponsor gave her very little directions and she was fine with that.

But what about when you don't understand the directions? The book is not easy language to understand.

Thanks, Mike.

LiveInPeace

Hahahaha tomsteve that is so unfortunately true..... I cringe at the memories of that!!

LiveInPeace

I am not sure what your intention or tone of voice is with this sentence but I felt it was condescending so I will choose to ignore it.

Step 9. Yes I did 5-8 already with her. She has "helped" people but I was the first she was taking completely through the steps. Most people she helped quit during Step 4. There were a couple of women she heard 5th steps of, women who were working with men. She's very spiritually healthy though. But she completely misperceives me and the miscommunciations were so frustrating.

I did not say the resentment prayer because it was difficult to view her as spiritually sick because she is "recovered" so it just got very confusing. I was also told you really should only resent your sponsor when she tells you to write Step 4.

I love the Mother Theresa prayer you posted. One of my favorite AA circuit speakers once read that during his share.

biminiblue

What I would do is put your amends on hold until you have become clear on them.

It says in Step Eight, "Became willing to make amends to them all." You are obviously willing. Continue to ask for specific instructions but don't lose sleep over it. You are sober. You are willing. The answers will come.

Keep praying, and the meditation? The PTSD will make your brain jumpy. I would buy and read books about PTSD and how to treat it - because meditation really is the answer - but just be kind to yourself and take it slow. Lots of spiritual literature. You're doing great.

You are exactly where you are supposed to be. Breathe.

biminiblue

The prayer is about your resentment, not about her.

Gottalife

Quitting at step 4 is not unique to your sponsor. IME most people quit at his point either out of fear or because they don't think they need to do it. Some can get away with it, some can't.

Recovered means not suffering from alcoholism in the AA context. We are not saints and can still get spritually off beam at times. Recovered means we can learn from our mistakes, in time, and not drink over them.

Dr Silkworth didn't buy the idea that occasional bad behaviour from sober alcoholics was down to alcoholism. He thought that it was human nature, not unique to alcoholics.

AAPJ

Sponsors like everyone else in AA are alcoholics. Some are not terribly good at their job. Just find a new one.

Berrybean

Feel free to ignore it. I wasn't attempting to be condescending, just pointing out that just because she had time to write a lengthy e-mail at one point in the day, it doesn't necessarily follow that she is not busy and unable to take a phone call at another point in the day.



[/QUOTE]I did not say the resentment prayer because it was difficult to view her as spiritually sick because she is "recovered" so it just got very confusing. I was also told you really should only resent your sponsor when she tells you to write Step 4. [/QUOTE]

The resentment prayer is to get yourself free of the resentment and more able to stay comfortable in your sobriety. It is quite possible to hold justified and unjustified resentments - they are both equally painful and unhealthy for us. Sometimes we lose our resentments by accepting our part, and sometimes by forgiving, and sometimes just by making a decision that we don't want to feel angry or upset any more. But I know that the resentment prayer has helped me most days since starting the program.

It certainly sounds like this sponsee / sponsor relationship has run its course, for whatever reason. I suppose you can keep giving it head-space, or decide to move on. It strikes me that it isn't necessary or helpful to you to put all this energy into analysing who said / did what, and apportioning blame at this stage, when you could be using that energy to focus on moving forward.

I think I've been really lucky in that my sponsor has been around for a long, long time, and is very experienced in guiding people through the steps. I didn't know that when I asked her to be my sponsor, and I'm not sure I'd have thought to ask that question back then. Hopefully she'll be around to support me for a long time to come, but one thing I've taken from your thread is the value of having an experienced sponsor, and I'll bear that in mind if I'm ever in the position of finding another one I think. Although saying that - we all have to start somewhere. Hopefully this has been a learning experience for your ex-sponsor.

Good luck with your step 9 work.

LiveInPeace

That is a good idea. I guess I fell into the trap of thinking I am going to relapse unless I do amends with a sponsor.

Yes, thank God. I will ask for specific instructions during prayers. I have to get back into doing that. I've been way too focused on my sponsor firing me.

What spiritual literature to you recommend? I keep forgetting to bring up the PTSD to my therapist. I wasn't sure if that was something I could read/treat on my own.

It sure doesn't feel that way, but thank you for saying it.

LiveInPeace

That's a really good point.

Then I wonder why she got so defensive and touchy when one of the sponsors suggested to me to discuss my resentments I have on her with her?? It's like she took it personally instead of seeing that resentments are about the resentments, and my having them......

LiveInPeace

That's interesting to hear that from another source. Although I can't imagine someone being able to recover without doing Step 4...

She's been spiritually off beam for quite some time and I tried to gently suggest she do her own Step 10s or talk to her own sponsor... But yes it is a good reminder to hear that recovered doesn't mean a person is going to be a great sponsor, but that they aren't drinking over stuff happening in life anymore.

Interesting! And good point! Perhaps I had too high of an expectation placed on a recovered alcoholic myself. Which also means I can take all the blame off myself here.

tomsteve

welp, you can keep wondering or turn it over.
let it goooooooooooo.