Tracy

Maybe you should open up the Big Book yourself. I haven't read it in more than ten years but I doubt it's been rewritten. The version I remember explicitly states, at least twice, that AA members do *not* brand another person as alcoholic.

Again, it's been more than a decade since I've seen a copy, but I believe there's also something in there about forcing yourself on someone who has shown disinterest. Look in "Working with Others."

Tracy

Hi jmhs,

Mostly I use the program of SMART because it works best for me. I also peruse Women for Sobriety, which about empowerment vs. powerlessness. I use the fellowship of AA because that is the only face-to-face support group available in Hicksville. Many of the underlying principles work for me too but certainly not all of them.

You don't have to pick and choose one program if you don't want to. Feel free to be eclectic in creating your own recovery program.

I'm glad you are here.

Hugs,

Tracy

Sandy Marie

Hi jmhs,
Congratulations on wanting to give up totally. You don't need drugs in your life anymore for any reason. They're nothing but a drain. There are so many wonderful and worthy strategies for giving up drugs that to embrace one totally seems somewhat stunting to me. I feel like an octopus most of the time, with my arms reaching from all of the strategies all at one time and incorporating them into a basic step by step routine. It's not just about quitting. It's about changing our perceptions, exercise, diet, short and long-term goals. We are really fortunate to have so many opportunities and an online source to draw from. Thank goodness we can draw from all of the experience of those who have been clean for years and yet are reminded daily of where we once were when we just started our programs.
Sandy

Patsyd1

Don't worry, you didn't (((((((Three Legs))))))))))

Patsy

Patsyd1

2dayzmuse wrote:
Yes it is tiresome and troublesome, and I am glad that you said it.

And YES I feel the same way that you do...... real tired of it.

Patsy

Tracy

Yes, I do. If there is not an "either/or" assumption to begin with, there is no "You're wrong/I'm right" argument at all. From what I have read, I do not believe the founders of AA would have any problem with, or criticism for, any abstinence program in existence today. I believe they would have welcomed them. I also believe they would have welcomed any research, information or treatment that was likely to help someone stop drinking, even if it went against the grain of what they had personally experienced. They were far more progressive than are many of their followers, IMHO.

Tracy

Patsyd1

To Thine Own Self Be True.

I believe thats as simple as it gets, for this drunk, no matter how someone chooses to get sober.

Patsy

Don S

Well, there is an interesting thread going over in the AA forum under the title 'How Do I STAY Sober?' Questions about how to change thoughts, about beliefs and behavior--just the sort of thing behavioral approaches are great for. But I don't go over there and post about it, because that is an AA forum. I assume that the context of the questions is about how to make those changes within an AA program.
AA was being promoted here in a thread specifically asking about alternatives. Now that is tiresome.
Don S

Patsyd1

Don, AA is being discussed in this thread, because this forum is called
ALCOHOLISM.

I would suggest taking the focus OFF AA, AA members, the 12 Steps and put it on the only thing that you can do anything about..... you and your own attitude.

Perhaps its time Don to stop hunting for those AA members posts and take care of you and the derogatory remarks that are solely aimed at AA members, and what they share. Please allow people the dignity of not having to read comment after comment. People are going to do, what they are going to do, with or without your input on a constant basis directed at AA members. Now that would be nice.

This person asked about alternative programs, and they also said that they were confused about AA. So let go Don, as some have noted, its tiresome, very tiresome.

If you choose not to go to the AA thread, then thats your choice. We happen to have choices of our own to make, and we make them.


And thank you very much,
Patsy

2dayzmuse

I agree with you on that Tracy. I believe what ever gets you sober...kudos to you. I could use all the help I can get. The road I was traveling was a bumpy one. I too live in a small town and have limited resources to recovery. I will use whatever I have available to me. I don't have to like all the aspects of a certain program, but I will adapt where needed. I want sobriety enough, I'm capable of dealing with my dislikes and disagreements in certain programs. I feel most feel the same as I. Some are staunch this program or staunch that program. Within time, it is evident who's who. I value and respect their views, I believe most do. Often times, the words are twisted and misread and their meaning takes on a new one. Then the poster is left defending themself, over something that was not what they intended it to be. Of course, this can happen anywhere on a daily basis, my problem is as alcoholics, we need to support one another with our sobriety and not distance ourselves. This is something I've watched happening and have a hard time understanding. I believe what is being said most times is...try your program, I hope it works, good luck with it, if it doesn't... here is a suggestion. Not... my way or the highway. Words with good intentions are often twisted or misread. The battle of the intellectuals will continue. I just wish they would take a deep breath and shake hands and work together, not against one another. Take a break and rethink things through. We all have the same message to spread, we just use a different delivery. That doesn't make the message a bad one. The message should be "get sober and stay sober through the help of others". How a person gets their is their choice and the best of luck to them. By the way, I prefer apples to oranges. Does that mean I should be ostracized in a room full of alcoholics? I think not. Who really cares? We're just a bunch of fruits trying not to ferment. Welcome...I'm happy you're here to share your opinions and ES&H. I value your thoughts on the matter. Have a great 24...

I reread the thread and must have missed something. I believe jmhs stated they didn't know how they felt about AA and was asking about alternatives. Alternatives were given and AA was offered as an alternative if the other programs didn't work out. I've seen that happen on both sides of the street on these boards and find it perfectly acceptable. No harm done. I didn't see it as a shameless promotion of sorts on any part.

Talia

Peter

Just to keep things in perspective.

The Alcoholism forum is a general forum where all issues and methods relating to alcoholism is open for discussion.

Don,Jmhs stated in his/her post that they were interested in alternatives to AA.

They also stated that they were....... "not sure about AA"........ indicating (to me anyway) that they may not be entirely opposed to AA.

It may be a little sensitive subject to try and "diagnose" another persons degree of alcoholism but I do not think 3legacys invitation to remain openminded about AA can be construed as "promoting AA" .

Sandy Marie

Talia,
Can I have piece of that fruit? It looks yummy.

Tracy

I don't think it's "a little sensitive" to "diagnose" another person's degree of alcoholism in AA. As near as I can remember - it's a big, bad NO NO.

I agree with you on the whole promotion thing. That tradition is about publicity (media). However, the Big Book is pretty clear about certain things. As I remember it (passages in the Big Book), when the request for alternatives was presented, AA members *should* have (according to their own Big Book) hushed up. What we saw instead was a criticism of other approaches. How was that OK, by AA standards (what was written and intended, not what is commonly practiced)?

Tracy

Peter

"I don't think it's "a little sensitive" to "diagnose" another person's degree of alcoholism in AA. As near as I can remember - it's a big, bad NO NO."

Tracy.

Perhaps it is.However I maintain the more conservative approach.


"I agree with you on the whole promotion thing. That tradition is about publicity (media). However, the Big Book is pretty clear about certain things. As I remember it (passages in the Big Book), when the request for alternatives was presented, AA members *should* have (according to their own Big Book) hushed up. What we saw instead was a criticism of other approaches. How was that OK, by AA standards (what was written and intended, not what is commonly practiced)?"

Tracy

Huh ?

Tracy

Huh, what? I don't understand what you didn't understand. How is it ok, by AA standards (NOTE: The way the book is written), to criticize other approaches when asked about other approaches?

Peter, I love your posts but I don't get what you don't get.

I would like to clarify but don't know where clarification is needed. How/Where does my response appear fuzzy to you? Consider me an idiot and please be specific (not kidding, I've no gift for subtle communication).

Tracy

Don S

Just curious, Peter: why is there a separate Alcoholics Anonymous forum?
Don

Tracy

Did you mean a more liberal approach?

Tracy

sweeks

Hey, I just wanted to pop in and say that I really enjoy reading all of your posts but it's starting to look like some of you are LOOKING for these arguments. I really didn't see any problem with the little that AA was brought up earlier in this post. I would probably have done the same if AA was my recovery program. jmhs002 said they weren't sure how they felt about AA. A lot of other programs and helpful links were given along with some folks trying to discern what it was that jmhs was not liking about AA....I don't see a problem sorry.

I'm sorry if anyone is offended but I really hate seeing peoples threads hijacked again and again for the same argument....

Tracy

It's a comfort zone for them. But when they get bored with each other . . .

Tracy

Sweeks, are you an alcoholic?

Maybe it's just your avatar but I thought you were someone else?

Tracy