amethyst05

Something finally clicked for me, I'm not physically addicted to alcohol but it's become a psychological compulsion. Just like people with OCD perform compulsive rituals to manage their anxiety and create an illusion of control over negative thoughts and emotions, the behaviors seem irrational to everyone around them, but they feel like they can't stop no matter how much this interferes with living a normal life. Eating disorders are similar to addictions in that they're usually about control too, even though it's a tricky paradox.

So why isn't alcoholism treated as a compulsion? AA treats the symptoms, not the underlying causes.. You're completely powerless over your addiction? No, you're not. How many people has this actually prevented from getting or staying sober? There are many things in life we can't control, our own thoughts and feelings included at times, but we can control how we view and react to them. I don't believe alcoholism is a disease, it might be a mental illness brought on by genetic predisposition and/or environmental factors, but it's not a permanent condition and alcohol itself isn't the problem imo.

So that's my rant, I want to help myself and help others but feel like there's something twisted about the way our society treats addiction.

midgetcop

Would treatment necessarily change depending on how it's viewed? There was already a huge emotional/thinking/behavioural component at my treatment program. Abstinence was only one small piece of the puzzle in terms of recovery.

I don't personally agree that AA only treats symptoms. But I don't want this to turn into a typical AA debate. But there are a multitude of recovery programs out there, and I'm pretty sure that root causes are often heavily explored in order to explain current behaviours.

As a side note - I often thought that I wasn't physically addicted to alcohol either, and also felt it was more of a compulsion than anything (I was a binger). But my current spell of PAWS is constantly reminding me that I was wrong.

Oh, and welcome to SR.

Joe Nerv

The 12 steps got to the core of all things that led me to the point where I needed to drink every single day without fail. All the other things I learned at meetings taught me how to live differently than I had lived even before I ever picked up a drink. The fellowship part of AA taught me to be able to socialize with people, without the need for alcohol.

Not sure what's considered the symptoms of drinking compulsively, or alcoholically, but I haven't had a desire to drink in decades, and I don't miss it. I never lament over my choice to not drink, and I know there's nothing stopping me from getting a beer this evening aside from my own free will and the fact that I have no desire to do that. Doing so would be insanity for me, as I know where alcohol takes me. I'm not insane anymore. I was while I was drinking, and there's no question about that.

I could go on, but as the previous posted stated, don't want to turn this into an AA debate.

I believe if someone truly wants to stop drinking they'll find a way. If they want to find a way to NOT stop drinking, they'll find that too. The latter is even easier.

amethyst05

If AA works for people that's great...

I just think without learning to identify and deal with the underlying "triggers" that lead to the repetitive/unhealthy behavior in the first place (since most alcoholics don't pick up their first drink and instantly become hooked and insane) it can be easy to go back to drinking or transfer addictions.

Maybe treatment would change if it were viewed differently, but unfortunately there aren't many popular alternatives. And btw I've been reading a couple of the threads on AV and I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint either... So I'm not trying to attack anyone just wanted to have a conversation.

Dee74

The 12 steps in AA are pretty much all about those underlying causes tho?

I think you'll find secular groups like SMART and LifeRing work a lot with the underlying causes too, so really there should be no end of approaches that suit you.

Welcome aboard

D

Joe Nerv

What do you consider the underlying triggers?

Solarion

amethyst, that's an interesting idea in your OP and you might be right in some cases, but I think we would agree that there isn't one model that fits all cases.

If we're talking about what we can control, then that involves executive function in the prefrontal lobe of the brain -- which can become damaged or disordered from prolonged use of alcohol (or head injuries), thereby diminishing the ability to control or restrain habitual or instinctive impulses.

Have you looked into CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) as an approach that might work for you? That seems like it would be compatible with your views and your insight into your own problem with alcohol.

amethyst05

Thanks Dee74

Joe Nerv, from looking up the 12 steps I see things like "we're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character, and humbly ask Him to remove our shortcomings of character"

Imo an underlying trigger would be anxiety, depression, dealing with trauma, etc.. It's important to take personal responsibility, but how can that happen if the addiction is a seen as a moral defect that can only be healed by God?

It probably sounds like I'm anti-spirituality but that's really not true, I just believe God is within us so to speak, and certain viewpoints prevent people from realizing their own power.

Solarion, thanks I have looked into CBT and you're right it probably would be helpful for me personally..

IOAA2

" I don't believe alcoholism is a disease, it might be a mental illness brought on by genetic predisposition and/or environmental factors, but it's not a permanent condition and alcohol itself isn't the problem imo."


Hi.

My ? following that rather common statement is why do insurance companies spend so many BILLIONs of $ on alcoholics if it’s not a disease?

Call it what you want, I’ll never be able to drink in safety because I have a progressive disease called alcoholism. And I accepted that many years ago and haven’t had a desire since. I still do 3-5 meetings a week.

BE WELL

Nevertheless

I AM completely powerless. There are no if ands or buts about it.
Yes once i stop and the addiction has been broken,I have the power to abstain. But if I were to drink a 6 pack today. Tomorrow at 5 oclock I would be gritting my teeth to not walk into a beer store and buy a 12 pack. And once I drink one,I can't stop until they are all gone. A few beers and i have gone straight back to hell.
I call that powerless.
Fred

Dee74

I think the best person to see about anxiety, depression, and the like is probably a Dr or a counsellor and you'll find that's even backed up in AA literature.

http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-11_...ersMedDrug.pdf
Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.

Nevertheless it should be noted there are folks, here on SR and elsewhere, who insist the 12 steps helped them with these kinds of issues. I think faith is an incredible force for change and for good

Me, I had to deal with my anxiety and depression - but I also had to deal with the alcoholism that developed from my self medication.

I tackled both.

I didn't 'do' AA but I got a lot out of counselling and SR

D

anattaboy

I'm not a "disease model" fan either nor do I care for "powerless". I do know from recent research that if I drink one, IT'S ON until I get ill (2 weeks this time). I've heard it put that way in many a meeting : Powerless after the first drink. I think some get carried away and use the word as an excuse. Bill was not the greatest writer and the aversion to re-writing the BB to make it more appealing has always been shot down to keep it "as it was written". It is also a very strong lead-in to the next step of where that power can be found so no real mystery why that word was used.

tbowes

I can't do AA as I am too uncomforatable in those meetings.

tbowes

AA meeting actually give me more anxiety. I actually wish I could use AA to my benefit but it just does not work for me. I have tried it about 4 times over the last 25 years. I have periods where I stop for a month or two, then I go back and control it for a while but eventually I get to a point where I'm drinking mush more than I want so I stop again. Continuous maddening cycles.

amethyst05

Um probably the same reason they spend billions of $ on other "incurable" health issues/diseases, it's a revolving door of profit for them...

I'm not saying treatment shouldn't be covered for those who really need it, I actually think it should be a little more affordable and the money should be re-allocated but that's a whole different subject.

Anyway thanks for the responses, I'll take everything into consideration

amethyst05

This is how it's been for me too. I feel like I'm in church again except this time everyone's chain smoking and it doesn't help my anxiety at all lol...

Joe Nerv

I hated AA in the beginning, and was really uncomfortable there for my first 6 months sober. I went anyway as I was told the only way I was going to grow and change was if I pushed at the walls of my comfort zone. I, myself, needed to do things that cut completely against the grain. Many different things, too. It worked.

freshstart57

You're getting to the point, but kinda sideways it seems. The insurance companies don't spend money they haven't already been given by you, more or less. The money comes from somewhere alright, and it isn't them. They keep some of every dollar that passes through them too.

The truth behind your statement is a little more disturbing than this obvious fact. The reason that they spend billions of dollars on the disease of alcoholism is that they created that classification in the first place to permit this money to flow through them.

The concept of this addiction being classed as a disease was voiced by Marty Mann, and funded by R. Brinkley Smithers, back in the mid 1950s. He supported the campaign, but also ran a rehab center which benefitted from this insurance money. He funded a study and report by a Dr. Jellinek in 1957 which supported this classification, which was soon retracted by its author due to the overwhelmingly negative response it received from the medical community due to its utter failure as a research project.

The Christopher Smithers Foundation still is running this racket, and their byline on their website calls alcoholism a 'respectable disease'. Yikes.

JeffreyAK

Just curious, how do you differentiate? Your brain is a physical thing, so psychological addiction is physical addiction is just plain addiction, brought on by too much alcohol for too long and curable by abstinence. Many people have underlying issues, maybe stuff that drove them in the direction of drinking too much for too long, that ideally should be dealt with after you quit, but first priority is always, stop the drinking and let your brain heal over time before wading into deeper and potentially very triggering stuff.

If AA doesn't work (didn't for me), try something else. I found medical outpatient treatment groups to be most effective for me, and most educational, but you may come to some other conclusion.

zjw

thats me. I basicly have a routine / program i follow to help keep myself in balance. If i falter i get flaky though I can manage deviations if i see them coming. It might seem weird to those around me for example I showed up at my grand parents house one day with my own food and yes my own utensils. My grand father told me I was wierd for doing so. I said maybe so but this is what i want to eat today and I did not want to burden anyone with my strange to them eating. (vegan). and I brought my own utensils just in case I was hungry someplace and did not have a utensil handy if my blood sugar drops i get panicy. So yes I'm wierd I bring food with me places and such but this all keeps me in balance and in check.

I have my own issues with AA. I feel like there is a nitch group there and I cant seem to socialize with any of them. Even the one i do know it seemed like I was bothering him last night when I tried to make small talk hoping perhaps he'd introduce me to others or something. But what should i expect? I'd imagine most of them in the room have socilization issues.

I'd like to make a local friend in AA. last night a list came around and they wanted me to put my name and number down. Being a pretty private person I thought i dont wanna! but then I thought welp how will i meat anyone? maybe someone will call me? I was like 4th or 5th down on the list I can only hope I get a call.