RobbyRobot

Well said.

Yeah, my years of failure still has its worth in my life too. We can learn and up our game to a better fit, a more realistic effort, a more profound understanding of who and what we are from honestly embracing whatever we may struggle and fail with. Not to say failure is a pass, obviously success has more worth. I think beating ourselves up isn't helpful. At what point do we suck up whatever and move on? As soon as possible, hell yeah, right!?

Good to hear its working well for you friend. I can more easily see your meaning now from your explanations of your experiences. Thanks and regards.

Bmac

As my first sponsor told me, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the cork in the bottle. The easiest part of sobriety is not drinking. To me, that's 5% of the battle. The other 95% is changing the way I think and feel about myself and the world around me; an entirely spiritual campaign.

The exciting thing for me is realizing there are so many paths to spirituality and personal growth. Whether you read the Gita, Bible, Tao Te Ching, The Four Noble Truths, New Age, meditate, pray, helping others, and on and on....there is just so much to try. Personal sobriety is like one's fingerprint, each person's path is different. I love hearing of other's experience so that I too might try it out to see if it fits.

Not drinking is my prerequisite for getting to the starting line of life. Where I go from there is an exciting journey, filled with ups and downs, happiness and sorrow, just like every other human being, alky or not. I am owed no special treatment, no pass from the ocassional "downs" just because I am an alcoholic.

But it all starts with one simple goal, I do not drink under any circumstances. When I do that, life opens up to me in ways previously thought impossible and often surpasses my most optimistic expectations.

freshstart57

I agree that the easiest part of sobriety is the not drinking, but I think it is 99.999% of the battle and I might be underestimating just a tad.

The rest, that which can be described as the pursuit of spiritual and personal growth, is not the sole domain of the recovered addict. It is something everyone can choose to do, whether they have a history of substance abuse and addiction or not. Just like every other human being, as you said, Bmac.

It is simply living.

RobbyRobot

I think not drinking as an action "not taken" is simple enough to understand. As for the internalized struggle of what follows thereafter, this is really subjectively relevant for each individual. It is of importance not everybody quits. Some die with drink in hand, so to speak. It is no small matter how some die as drunks and some don't. I suppose we can play with statistics and make all sorts of claims of this and that. The point here is for those who have died as active drunks, how easy was it for them?

When individuals talk for others (as in generalizing) what is easy, I just smile knowing differently. It's always better to offer our own experiences rather than claim "everybody (or most) can do as I did and have what I have" kind of motto.

freshstart57

I see my point was a little vague, so let me clarify then, Robby. It is the easy part because it is the only part. And absent any other comparison component, we can just as well say it is the hardest part of sobriety and be equally correct. However, I prefer to choose words that load the odds in my favour.

Bmac

Word!

Carlotta

I absolutely agree Robby.
Some just cannot make it and keep going back and forth between patches of sobriety and benders. They just cannot live drunk or sober and end up committing suicide. My XABF was one of those

This is a pretty good page
MCES
Two things which jumped at me were that
and

RobbyRobot

That's okay Fresh. I understood your meaning. It wasn't vague. We see things differently. There isn't any misunderstanding.

Boleo

If that were true, every recovery program would have a 99.999% success rate. Those of us who have talked/listened to thousands of other alcoholics f2f , know there is lot more to it than that.

That's were "experience" enters the picture.

awuh1

Suicide is 120 times more prevalent among adult alcoholics than in the general population.

Among those who are alcohol dependent, 18% complete suicide.

Excellent point Carlotta. This is yet another example of where dangerous drivel of the timshel generalization becomes apparent.
__________________

Melanie1985

I feel ya! I'm in the same boat. Much of my family are pentecostal and do not ever drink alcohol or think about alcohol. That's how I want to be. however the reason I don't drink is different. I can't drink.....if I ever forget that it's back on the "maybe I can have 1 or 2 boat". But the thought of life long meetings and therapy really doesn't appeal. Id like to think after a few years clean, when the thought of drinking arises I'll be able to put it to rest quick and move on...

freshstart57

That is exactly what to do, Melanie. Precisely. Succinctly. You got it! And you don't have to wait nearly that long to reach that state. If that is where you are right now and you can visualize your desired end state, it is only one small step to where you wish to be.

soberlicious

So sorry about your ex boyfriend Carlotta. It's true that addiction kills. I could see no way out myself and I locked my young children in the house with me and tried to kill myself. I can remember the feeling as simply nothing but relief. I was not sad, not scared, not angry. I was simply relieved that it was finally going to end. Living in addiction is a nightmare existence. Obviously, my mind was so far gone I did not think of anyone but myself. My boys remember that day and they are now almost men.

Unfortunately, suicide among the addicted is high. This is regardless of any program, method, treatment. Timshel generalizations or drivel about anything does not cause people to suicide. The excruciating state of addiction can though. I know that first hand. I'm glad I had options and I was able to recover. I think my boys are glad too.

As far as not thinking about alcohol or addiction and moving forward...it's absolutely how I live. I don't have to think about it any more. The questioned has been asked and answered. There is no possible way that drinking would lead to anything but misery and death for me. I already know the answer, so questioning it is moot. Not something I think about on a daily basis.

awuh1

Yes it does. We can agree on that. And sometimes it's alcoholism all by itself. But not always. That's my point.

My alcohol use was driven by things that had nothing to do with addiction (at least in the beginning). It had to do with depression and with a kind of spiritual void which I then experienced. These were the things that fueled my desire to drink. They were bound up with my drinking in ways that were inseparable from the drinking itself.

If someone can address their alcohol problem by simply deciding not to drink that's great. For me, not drinking was not 99.999% of the battle. If I had believed that, especially in early sobriety, I might have ended up as one of those in that suicide statistic.

NYCDoglvr

I'm sober over 23 years thanks to the support and love I found at AA. It works if you work the program.

soberlicious

Awuh I also have had clinical depression that began in childhood. My self harm began began before alcohol and drugs, and continued past when I quit. Whether or not my addiction sprang from other issues wasn't of importance when I spiraled to a suicide attempt. Quitting drinking was the priority. I did that finally successfully and with it has come a clarity that has allowed me to shed much of that old stuff. Without permanent abstinence nothing else is possible.

freshstart57

I agree with this, awuh1. Depression and spiritual matters can have a huge impact on quality of life. In my experience, they are often best addressed by those who are specifically trained in these things. Clergy, psychiatrists, psychologists and other professionals can be effective and useful in situations such as these.

awuh1

Yes, but not just a huge impact. I want to be absolutely clear about this. These problems were in fact inseparable from my alcoholism, and they were at least as fundamental. They needed to be addressed together, and concurrently with my addiction. I was fortunate because I was at least partially knowledgeable about what I was dealing with. I wish everyone could be so fortunate. Unfortunately, I believe the statistics cited by Carlotta point in another direction.

RobbyRobot

Thanks for your share Carlotta. It's sad to hear of course, but thanks for bringing it into the thread. Its sparked some good discussions.

I self-committed as I was being especially suicidal the summer of 1979 when I was like 22. They took me in and based on their initial interview, restricted me for three days. I refused all offered meds, even sleeping pills. I already had a lot of experiences in hospitals and knew my rights. When it became obvious they were only offering treatment for my psychosis, and my alcoholism was deemed as a secondary symptom of same, I quickly refused all treatments and consultations and demanded to be released. On the third day I was released. Obviously, there is more to this, but none of that has direct meaning in this thread. I sobered up 2 years later in a rehab.

My alcoholism began with me self-medicating as a 12 year old for very specific reasons. In some ways, if I had not drank at such an early age, I would have done myself in. Drinking bought me time even as it ruined me even more. Not surprisingly, alcohol failed me, and this eventually helped me to quit age 24. For me, my alcoholism was (and still is) inseparable as well. It was just absolutely woven into my troubled experiences to an entirely primal level of awareness. Quitting drinking is of course the essential responsibility to have any chance of survival.

Importantly, I was increasingly suicidal for those 12 years. Had I taken the offered treatments for my mental health, I still would have drank anyways, and so any such treatments would have been less than useless. Drinking while on anti-psychotic meds has no upside, and in fact would have worsened my suicidal ideations, imo.

Suicidal ideations can very much be in play together with cases of chronic alcoholism. Mental illness as well brings its own responsibilities. When both alcoholism and mental illness are in play for extended times, the outcome is often grim. Intervention is usually complicated. For myself, just quitting drinking, and moving on with mental health professionals would have killed me. I required a much more robust revolutionary change in my psyche for both my alcoholism and my psychosis. I underwent intensive therapy which treated my alcoholism as my primary issue. It is perhaps of interest I did not take any meds for my diagnosed mental illness (schizophrenia). My revolutionary spiritual treatment for my original alcoholism illness is sufficient for my enjoyment of life.

It may be unclear for some to understand how chronic alcoholism itself is enough to create entwined secondary mental illnesses, and how alcoholism itself is also enough to take someone to the edge, and sadly beyond, with suicidal ideations. From my own horrible experiences, and working with others for years, I know like I know water is wet, not everybody can just quit, and walk away into an eventual wonderful life which treats everything else about themselves as entirely separate issues not attached to their former drinking experiences or their possible future opportunities for drinking either. Enough of us exist to be recognized who must also be always responsible of their active and post-active alcoholism, for the rest of their natural lives, if they expect to survive, let alone have any quality of life.

soberlicious

Exactly. I spent years treating my depression with psychiatrists and psychologists and meds...all the while drinking. That is how I spiraled to suicide.

Depression or other mental illnesses cannot be effectively treated while concurrent with active addiction. Ingesting large amounts of alcohol and/or drugs will make it impossible for treatments to work. Quitting the use of substances first is the only hope of managing depression or other mental illnesses.

I doubt any one of us who has quit an addiction by whatever means have gone skipping into the sunlight as if nothing ever happened and then continued to sh*t skittle and rainbows for the rest of their lives. Life can be very hard work indeed and folks around the world have many battles, addiction being but just one. For those who would like to not have to be in recovery for a lifetime, or those who do not wish to seek a spiritual solution to ending their addiction, I am only here to say it's possible.