George89

Hi guys and girls, wishing you all a happy Sunday today.

A quick update on my side: I'm having another crack with sobriety again. This time I've signed up to a half marathon with a friend in about 5 weeks from now. It's giving me a real reason to get sober and train and I would suggest it as a good way to get sober if you are having problems. It should also provide a great excuse to coworkers and anyone else out there wondering why you don't drink. I'm thinking as possible long term way to frame it is, I stopped drinking before a marathon, and felt so great after my training and no drinking that I decided to keep it up. For me that would be a great way to respond to people who ask. Obviously this is all speaking post retrospectively but nonetheless.

I've realized that stopping drinking has to be a bold choice for the right reasons and positive reasons. If you sober up purely to avoid negatives, then I think you set yourself up to fail more easily.

Anyway, I actually wanted to speak about sobriety and lifestyle/career today. I realized that in some professions/countries being sober must be a hell of a lot easier when there is less of a culture around alcohol. Take perhaps a country like Indonesia, or the Middle East, or perhaps other countries. Most of Europe drinks but I think the UK it's probably more of a cultural problem then anywhere else in Europe. Here, it's as if non drinkers are pariahs, misfits, alcoholics, and not inline with the majority. Perhaps I overthink this line. But it's evident in our culture, in what drinkers say about non drinkers, and the general vibe towards non drinkers that people have issues with it.

As drastic as it sounds, has anyone considered either changing jobs or location to find a career or country/region/culture with alcohol is not as pervasive ?

Dee74

I'm an Australian

I used to drink hard, and never lacked for company.

Now I don't drink alcohol at all, and I still don't lack for company

You addiction will prick your insecurity and self doubt and make you worry about being 'different' or standing out.

It's nonsense tho

After many years of trying to fit in, I'm finally comfortable with who I am. I'm many things - a non drinker among them.

I have nothing to prove. There's a freedom in that - and a peace too.

I really hope you find that serenity too George

George89

Thanks Dee, yeah I think thats my biggest hurdle in some respects. Getting past the idea about being different or standing out. You are right though, and I think if I can get past that, then a life to choose to be a non drinker awaits!

I think also the less I think about it, the less it bothers me, which is obvious, but I think I give wanting to be sober way too much thought and time. Its good to have the forum, think about it a little, but hopefully after sometime of being a non-drinker I will feel more comfortable with it.

LaTraviata

Good morning, George. I love your observation that quitting has to be a "bold choice for the right reasons." I believe a big part of the reason I'm having more success this time 'round is that in the past, I quit because it was the right thing to do. But this time, I did it because it was life or death and I boldly chose life.

Culturally, I'm American and spiritually, I'm Christian. I can't picture myself living in a middle-Eastern culture. I'd feel so alienated, my urge to drink would increase and I'd seek out black market booze. And besides, individual liberty and personal sovereignty are deeply woven into my values, so I'd be miserable living ANYWHERE which prohibited alcohol.

In America, overconsumption of alcohol is pretty much expected. Movies and popular music are full of in-your-face drunkenness. Hardcore underage drinking/drugging is practically institutionalized in our yearly tradition of "Spring Break." But for me, fleeing alcohol cannot be part of the strategy. In my diverse culture, which includes 10% serious alcoholics, another 10% who are dangerously close to that, 30% teetotalers and 50% "normal" drinkers, I simply need to make not drinking MY NORM, and network with others for whom not drinking is a norm. That's the role of AA for me so far.

I've dismissed alcohol avoidance as a workable strategy for me. Instead, I seek out the 30% of adult Americans who do not drink. And with my loved ones who do drink, I let them do so because that's their norm, and remind myself that NOT drinking is MY norm. I've met enough nondrinkers that I no longer feel isolated in my sobriety. And also, I'm "out of the closet" about my alcoholism. When somebody asks why I don't drink, I tell them the truth.

Soberwolf

What D said

Persys

I work in the professional world and in terms of sobriety it has been helpful for me to know that neither Donald Trump or Warren Buffett drink alcohol. You don't need it to be "successful" and most people don't even notice.

Believe it or not, there are a ton of people out there who just don't drink, not because they have a problem, they just choose not to. I find it pretty easy to blend in with those people while on the job or at a function.

MIRecovery

Although I have no statical evidence to back this up the vast majority of the world are either normal drinkers or non drinkers. We as alcoholics surround ourselves with heavy drinkers or alcoholics.

Our view of the general population's drinking habits becomes very distorted. If everyone we know drinks a lot then it is time to make new friends with the 90% who doesn't

LaTraviata

I come up with 80% (50% "normal" drinkers and 30% teetotalers), but the point is dead-on: there are plenty of folks we can connect with. 30% if we choose to avoid anyone who drinks at all, and 80% if we just need to stay away from problem drinkers. Either way, it's a lot of people.

newfriend

Hi George ~

Good question. And I have a funny answer! My alcoholic drinking BEGAN in an Islamic country where alcohol was pretty much banned. I was so isolated. As a female, I was sexually harassed and assaulted almost every time I left the house and frankly, there wasn't much of anything great to see anyway, so I just started staying at home.

And drinking.

If you are an alcoholic, you will find any way to get it, and will pay almost anything for it. I imported it, I paid top dollar for it at hotels, I got British friends to let me into their club, I had friends import it. List was endless. In my country, the locals always said it was easier to get heroin than alcohol.

I excelled at making it work.

I think the key with AA is the support system and you would be removing yourself from that entirely as well because guess what? Just like you said, in "alcohol-free" societies, there are no AA chapters. AA is like a therapeutic outlet for me. The issue isn't the alcohol as much as it is my dysfunctional brain.

That was my experience with the alcohol-free society. Somehow it made me drink MORE!

Sasha4

I'm not sure about being a misfit or an outcast through not drinking..... I find many people are curious when I say I don't drink.

I've also had other responses like 'wow..I wish I didn't drink' or 'thats impressive' or 'don't you feel like you are missing out?' to which my reply is 'not really'.

I think its quite sad it has become so ingrained that to enjoy ourselves or to celebrate something it can only be done with booze involved.

We celebrate births with a drink to wet the babies head and even at funerals, we raise a glass.

I think for me it is seeing the aftermath of drinking that makes me relieved I don't do it anymore.
Hangovers, the paranoia, the guilt, the what did I say, what did I do?
Do you always get to see the aftermath?

I also agree that people don't notice either.
In general I find overly drunk people annoying now and I don't like to spend time with them.
My life is quieter but much more peaceful.
I prefer it that way.

kinzoku

I'm about to go to one of the (and I'd say it is the heaviest but stats are hard to show) heaviest drinking countries in the world. I considered not doing it, but if I can hack it there, I can hack it anywhere. I'm not going to turn down a job I love and an opportunity I've waited months for because of my problem. I know people can be sober anywhere if they chose.

heartcore

Kinzoku -

"I know people can be sober anywhere if they choose."

Yes, and yes, and yes. I am sober in Alaska, which is a scrappy desperate frontier of hard-working folk who drink as hard as they work and play...many people here drink themselves through the cold darkness of winter. Interestingly, there are also many dry villages, because some communities have decided that alcohol is so destructive they forbid it. There is an active black market of alcohol in those communities, though, and you see the heart-breaking impacts of alcohol everywhere you turn.

You are brave to follow your star, to wherever it takes you. I agree that sobriety should not limit our opportunities, and that we are absolutely capable of staying sober in any situation - positive or negative.

Congratulations on your opportunity! Seize it with joy and confidence!

bigsombrero

Same here.

For what it's worth to the OP, I did change careers and location. I wanted to live an "outdoor lifestyle" among other things, and moving to a place where I can be outdoors with shorts and a t-shirt 365 days per year suited me. It was helpful to change the daily view from my old office and the same daily surroundings. Made it easier to get a fresh start. That said, it wasn't necessary - I was sober for almost 2 years in Chicago before I got here. Once you achieve sobriety, the sky is the limit and you can make things happen!