25 years and slipped
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25 years and slipped
There's a member I knew when I joined AA 21 years ago. He moved back to the States maybe 10-12 years ago but returned recently. He got sober when he was 19 and stayed that way for the next 25 years. However, at one point he stopped going to meetings and this lasted for ten years.
During this time he got into drinking Nyquil cough syrup to sleep and a type of speed during the day. (I didn't pressure for details but got the feeling other substances were also involved. He also claims only to have drank non-alcoholic beer)
But here's the deal: He told me he needed the cough syrup to get to sleep so I asked was this because of job pressure? He said no. The reason he did what he did was because he hadn't been "spiritually fit."
In other words here's another example of someone with long-term sobriety who stopped coming to meetings and went out.
Now, I am sure there are those who rarely go to meetings and yet for a variety of reasons do stay sober.
However, it does seem when a member (with a good chunk of sobriety) stops going to meetings and then suddenly reappears it's because they've slipped.
During this man's share he talked about doing the steps again and the amends he missed the first time around.
But I'm thinking he seemed to have stayed sober all those years just fine without having made the amends he's now completing.
It wasn't until he stopped attending meetings that problems started creeping in.
Imo, it's the meetings/fellowship that are all important. Which isn't to say the steps aren't useful but to say this guy is a big reason I why I attend AA meetings.
I attend because I don't want to forget I can't drink or do drugs.
During this time he got into drinking Nyquil cough syrup to sleep and a type of speed during the day. (I didn't pressure for details but got the feeling other substances were also involved. He also claims only to have drank non-alcoholic beer)
But here's the deal: He told me he needed the cough syrup to get to sleep so I asked was this because of job pressure? He said no. The reason he did what he did was because he hadn't been "spiritually fit."
In other words here's another example of someone with long-term sobriety who stopped coming to meetings and went out.
Now, I am sure there are those who rarely go to meetings and yet for a variety of reasons do stay sober.
However, it does seem when a member (with a good chunk of sobriety) stops going to meetings and then suddenly reappears it's because they've slipped.
During this man's share he talked about doing the steps again and the amends he missed the first time around.
But I'm thinking he seemed to have stayed sober all those years just fine without having made the amends he's now completing.
It wasn't until he stopped attending meetings that problems started creeping in.
Imo, it's the meetings/fellowship that are all important. Which isn't to say the steps aren't useful but to say this guy is a big reason I why I attend AA meetings.
I attend because I don't want to forget I can't drink or do drugs.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 188
Hi Ken,
Its not how much Time we have in AA that matters, its what we DO with that Time that counts, because the Solution is not the meetings we make, its the Steps we Take.
Untreated alcoholism Kills....whether we drink or not.
Its been my experience that one of the misleading thoughts a newcomer might develop is the idea that if she/he is not drinking, they have recovered. That is not so!
Is AA or anyone in AA going to "make" anyone take the 12 Steps...NOPE, the choice is the individuals alone. Here is the question that I have for those newcomers who think AA meetings are all one needs.
Why would you not take advantage of the one thing that can bring peace of mind and serenity ... to an other wise anxious, irritable and discontent life
There are 2 types of sobriety:
1. Physical sobriety - this is just not drinking. Often the first few days or weeks of not finding it necessary to drink will produce a sort of euphoria.
We call this a “pink cloud”. There is the mistaken idea that we have found “recovery”. After the “pink cloud” period, we become restless, irritable and/or discontented and then we return to drinking. In our basic textbook “Alcoholics Anonymous” there is very little reference to not drinking although to not drink is the only requirement for membership. Not drinking is vital to being physically sober, but just not drinking is certainly not Recovery.
2. Emotional sobriety - this is defined as, “to know peace and comprehend the word serenity”. The emphasis of the AA Program is to be able to enjoy life without drinking. To provide us with a Program to live by. To enable us to live with peace of mind, freedom, happiness, a real purpose and serenity. This is the Program in the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” that gives us the clear-cut directions on how to change the person we bring to those AA meetings. The attainment of Emotional Sobriety through living by the Steps is RECOVERY.
There is a great deal of misunderstanding within the Fellowship of AA today as to what is “Program” and what is not “Program”.
On page 59 of the “Big Book”, you will find the following: “Here are the Steps we took, which are suggested as a Program of recovery”. It does not say: “Here are the meetings we went to”, nor does it say: “Here are The Steps we talked about and discussed”. It says: “took” which implies action (page 63). The clear-cut directions for taking the Steps can be found only in our basic textbook. That is exactly why the founders of our Program went to the trouble of writing and printing the “Big Book”. To keep their message from being garbled.
More often than not, the newcomer is told: “don’t drink and go to meetings” or worse yet “Go to ninety meetings in ninety days”. You will not find either of these suggestions in the “Big Book” nor in the “Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions” (the 12 & 12). If one relies on meetings for “recovery”, one will very likely find only a short term of physical sobriety and because one can't continue to have a case of untreated alcoholism, one will return to drinking. Recovery happens only as the result of taking and living by The 12 Steps.
Its not how much Time we have in AA that matters, its what we DO with that Time that counts, because the Solution is not the meetings we make, its the Steps we Take.
Untreated alcoholism Kills....whether we drink or not.
Its been my experience that one of the misleading thoughts a newcomer might develop is the idea that if she/he is not drinking, they have recovered. That is not so!
Is AA or anyone in AA going to "make" anyone take the 12 Steps...NOPE, the choice is the individuals alone. Here is the question that I have for those newcomers who think AA meetings are all one needs.
Why would you not take advantage of the one thing that can bring peace of mind and serenity ... to an other wise anxious, irritable and discontent life
There are 2 types of sobriety:
1. Physical sobriety - this is just not drinking. Often the first few days or weeks of not finding it necessary to drink will produce a sort of euphoria.
We call this a “pink cloud”. There is the mistaken idea that we have found “recovery”. After the “pink cloud” period, we become restless, irritable and/or discontented and then we return to drinking. In our basic textbook “Alcoholics Anonymous” there is very little reference to not drinking although to not drink is the only requirement for membership. Not drinking is vital to being physically sober, but just not drinking is certainly not Recovery.
2. Emotional sobriety - this is defined as, “to know peace and comprehend the word serenity”. The emphasis of the AA Program is to be able to enjoy life without drinking. To provide us with a Program to live by. To enable us to live with peace of mind, freedom, happiness, a real purpose and serenity. This is the Program in the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” that gives us the clear-cut directions on how to change the person we bring to those AA meetings. The attainment of Emotional Sobriety through living by the Steps is RECOVERY.
There is a great deal of misunderstanding within the Fellowship of AA today as to what is “Program” and what is not “Program”.
On page 59 of the “Big Book”, you will find the following: “Here are the Steps we took, which are suggested as a Program of recovery”. It does not say: “Here are the meetings we went to”, nor does it say: “Here are The Steps we talked about and discussed”. It says: “took” which implies action (page 63). The clear-cut directions for taking the Steps can be found only in our basic textbook. That is exactly why the founders of our Program went to the trouble of writing and printing the “Big Book”. To keep their message from being garbled.
More often than not, the newcomer is told: “don’t drink and go to meetings” or worse yet “Go to ninety meetings in ninety days”. You will not find either of these suggestions in the “Big Book” nor in the “Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions” (the 12 & 12). If one relies on meetings for “recovery”, one will very likely find only a short term of physical sobriety and because one can't continue to have a case of untreated alcoholism, one will return to drinking. Recovery happens only as the result of taking and living by The 12 Steps.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by Patriciae 
Hi Ken,
Its not how much Time we have in AA that matters, its what we DO with that Time that counts, because the Solution is not the meetings we make, its the Steps we Take.
Untreated alcoholism Kills....whether we drink or not.
Its been my experience that one of the misleading thoughts a newcomer might develop is the idea that if she/he is not drinking, they have recovered. That is not so!
Is AA or anyone in AA going to "make" anyone take the 12 Steps...NOPE, the choice is the individuals alone. Here is the question that I have for those newcomers who think AA meetings are all one needs.
Why would you not take advantage of the one thing that can bring peace of mind and serenity ... to an other wise anxious, irritable and discontent life
There are 2 types of sobriety:
1. Physical sobriety - this is just not drinking. Often the first few days or weeks of not finding it necessary to drink will produce a sort of euphoria.
We call this a “pink cloud”. There is the mistaken idea that we have found “recovery”. After the “pink cloud” period, we become restless, irritable and/or discontented and then we return to drinking. In our basic textbook “Alcoholics Anonymous” there is very little reference to not drinking although to not drink is the only requirement for membership. Not drinking is vital to being physically sober, but just not drinking is certainly not Recovery.
2. Emotional sobriety - this is defined as, “to know peace and comprehend the word serenity”. The emphasis of the AA Program is to be able to enjoy life without drinking. To provide us with a Program to live by. To enable us to live with peace of mind, freedom, happiness, a real purpose and serenity. This is the Program in the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” that gives us the clear-cut directions on how to change the person we bring to those AA meetings. The attainment of Emotional Sobriety through living by the Steps is RECOVERY.
There is a great deal of misunderstanding within the Fellowship of AA today as to what is “Program” and what is not “Program”.
On page 59 of the “Big Book”, you will find the following: “Here are the Steps we took, which are suggested as a Program of recovery”. It does not say: “Here are the meetings we went to”, nor does it say: “Here are The Steps we talked about and discussed”. It says: “took” which implies action (page 63). The clear-cut directions for taking the Steps can be found only in our basic textbook. That is exactly why the founders of our Program went to the trouble of writing and printing the “Big Book”. To keep their message from being garbled.
More often than not, the newcomer is told: “don’t drink and go to meetings” or worse yet “Go to ninety meetings in ninety days”. You will not find either of these suggestions in the “Big Book” nor in the “Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions” (the 12 & 12). If one relies on meetings for “recovery”, one will very likely find only a short term of physical sobriety and because one can't continue to have a case of untreated alcoholism, one will return to drinking. Recovery happens only as the result of taking and living by The 12 Steps.
Its not how much Time we have in AA that matters, its what we DO with that Time that counts, because the Solution is not the meetings we make, its the Steps we Take.
Untreated alcoholism Kills....whether we drink or not.
Its been my experience that one of the misleading thoughts a newcomer might develop is the idea that if she/he is not drinking, they have recovered. That is not so!
Is AA or anyone in AA going to "make" anyone take the 12 Steps...NOPE, the choice is the individuals alone. Here is the question that I have for those newcomers who think AA meetings are all one needs.
Why would you not take advantage of the one thing that can bring peace of mind and serenity ... to an other wise anxious, irritable and discontent life
There are 2 types of sobriety:
1. Physical sobriety - this is just not drinking. Often the first few days or weeks of not finding it necessary to drink will produce a sort of euphoria.
We call this a “pink cloud”. There is the mistaken idea that we have found “recovery”. After the “pink cloud” period, we become restless, irritable and/or discontented and then we return to drinking. In our basic textbook “Alcoholics Anonymous” there is very little reference to not drinking although to not drink is the only requirement for membership. Not drinking is vital to being physically sober, but just not drinking is certainly not Recovery.
2. Emotional sobriety - this is defined as, “to know peace and comprehend the word serenity”. The emphasis of the AA Program is to be able to enjoy life without drinking. To provide us with a Program to live by. To enable us to live with peace of mind, freedom, happiness, a real purpose and serenity. This is the Program in the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” that gives us the clear-cut directions on how to change the person we bring to those AA meetings. The attainment of Emotional Sobriety through living by the Steps is RECOVERY.
There is a great deal of misunderstanding within the Fellowship of AA today as to what is “Program” and what is not “Program”.
On page 59 of the “Big Book”, you will find the following: “Here are the Steps we took, which are suggested as a Program of recovery”. It does not say: “Here are the meetings we went to”, nor does it say: “Here are The Steps we talked about and discussed”. It says: “took” which implies action (page 63). The clear-cut directions for taking the Steps can be found only in our basic textbook. That is exactly why the founders of our Program went to the trouble of writing and printing the “Big Book”. To keep their message from being garbled.
More often than not, the newcomer is told: “don’t drink and go to meetings” or worse yet “Go to ninety meetings in ninety days”. You will not find either of these suggestions in the “Big Book” nor in the “Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions” (the 12 & 12). If one relies on meetings for “recovery”, one will very likely find only a short term of physical sobriety and because one can't continue to have a case of untreated alcoholism, one will return to drinking. Recovery happens only as the result of taking and living by The 12 Steps.
Emotional sobriety is subjective. It can't be measured. The only thing we can say for sure is this fellow had long-term sobriety and when he stopped going to meetings things slowly went bad.
Now, there are exceptions of course, and I can think of two members with 30 years plus who rarely go but remain sober. Are they emotionally sober? I wouldn't know.
However, the one constant I often hear from those who went out and then returned is they stopped attending meetings.
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I think it's fair to say that whatever your program or plan is, it won't work if you don't follow it. The exact details of HOW one follows their plan will be different, but the key is to find what works and not only keep doing it, but evolve it as needed.
There will always be stories of each extreme....the old timer at AA who started drinking again after 40 years sober, or the person who stays sober for 40 years completely on their own. But most of us need to simply work a plan of some kind, and do it consistently.
There will always be stories of each extreme....the old timer at AA who started drinking again after 40 years sober, or the person who stays sober for 40 years completely on their own. But most of us need to simply work a plan of some kind, and do it consistently.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Good topic.
Over the years I’ve heard the phrase “ I go to meetings to see what happens to people who don’t go to meetings.” There’s a lot of truth to that.
After many very active years in the program I’ve settled to 3-5 a week if only to show that it works, if we work it and to gain some needed pearls I may have forgotten. At the noon meeting I attend there are usually about 4-8 with +35 years of 30 or so, who attend regularly and that shows that it works.
For me the program as practiced is quite watered down and it seems that those that relapse wear it like a positive badge.
I’m reminded that someone I didn’t like say “we expect the sick to act well!” I need that reminder as well.
BE WELL
Over the years I’ve heard the phrase “ I go to meetings to see what happens to people who don’t go to meetings.” There’s a lot of truth to that.
After many very active years in the program I’ve settled to 3-5 a week if only to show that it works, if we work it and to gain some needed pearls I may have forgotten. At the noon meeting I attend there are usually about 4-8 with +35 years of 30 or so, who attend regularly and that shows that it works.
For me the program as practiced is quite watered down and it seems that those that relapse wear it like a positive badge.
I’m reminded that someone I didn’t like say “we expect the sick to act well!” I need that reminder as well.
BE WELL
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by Ken33xx
However, it does seem when a member (with a good chunk of sobriety) stops going to meetings and then suddenly reappears it's because they've slipped.
I think it's important not to try and predict what others are doing and why they might be doing it. We are all going to do it slightly differently. What works well for me may not work well for someone else... yes, even in the same program.
I understand that you are examining others' behavior within the program in an effort to maybe help yourself and others stay sober... but too much conjecture, mind-reading and presumption is not always going to lead to the best conclusions.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
Posts: 2,306
I drank at meetings (32 oz. Styrofoam cup w/lid and straw) after 8 yrs. of continuous sobriety. Does that mean going to meetings made me drink? No, it just means that I wanted to be drunk more than I wanted to be sober and that is a book that has many pages and chapters. I am grateful for SR and other sites that provide a forum for this very issue to be expressed, examined and dealt with. It's a personal struggle for all that go through it (and yes we ARE by far the rule and not the exception) and the net has opened doors that were never open before. "One-size-fits-all" is a worn out sales pitch and always was.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by gardendiva
Recovery happens many different ways.
Bill W. -- A.A. Grapevine, February, 1958 ... freedom from alcohol--through the teaching and practice of the twelve steps is the sole purpose of an A.A. group.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by KissMyTiara
"Recovery happens only as the result of taking and living by The 12 Steps. "
6+3=9
5+4=9
8+1=9
The way you do things is not the only way to do them.
6+3=9
5+4=9
8+1=9
The way you do things is not the only way to do them.
One doesn't have to do anything in AA, if its one thing that AA has given this alkie...is choices. The choice is always the individuals, as I posted already.
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Originally Posted by SoberJennie
I stopped going to meetings and then suddenly reappeared but I had remained sober.
I think it's important not to try and predict what others are doing and why they might be doing it. We are all going to do it slightly differently. What works well for me may not work well for someone else... yes, even in the same program.
I understand that you are examining others' behavior within the program in an effort to maybe help yourself and others stay sober... but too much conjecture, mind-reading and presumption is not always going to lead to the best conclusions.
I think it's important not to try and predict what others are doing and why they might be doing it. We are all going to do it slightly differently. What works well for me may not work well for someone else... yes, even in the same program.
I understand that you are examining others' behavior within the program in an effort to maybe help yourself and others stay sober... but too much conjecture, mind-reading and presumption is not always going to lead to the best conclusions.
However, the one variable I have noticed when a member with time talk about why they slipped is they mentioned they stopped going to meetings.
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Originally Posted by Ken33xx
However, the one variable I have notices when a member with time talk about why they slipped is they stopped going to meetings.
Is going to meetings important? Sure - but so is working the steps, having a sponsor, reading the big book and doing service work. Finding a balance is the key, and continuing to work on whatever balance is best for you is also key.
This would apply to any recovery method - if you don't follow through with your plan, you aren't going to get the results you desire.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
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Originally Posted by Ken33xx
Oh, I agree 100%. There are no absolutes in AA.
However, the one variable I have noticed when a member with time talk about why they slipped is they mentioned they stopped going to meetings.
However, the one variable I have noticed when a member with time talk about why they slipped is they mentioned they stopped going to meetings.
I have heard people share about their relapses. In fact the topic last night was relapse.
They did stop going to meetings but I heard a lot more then that and a lot more common factors.
The physical act of not going to meetings happened way after the mental tug of war/relapse.
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Originally Posted by Ken33xx
I attend because I don't want to forget I can't drink or do drugs.
and is also
one of the main reasons that I attend often
AA and church have been working for 6 years -- no reason for change
MM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
This is really a chicken before the egg argument Ken. It's just as possible for one to go to meetings every day and not work on their steps and return to drinking as it is for someone to work the steps and not go to meetings and have the same result.
True, but members who just pop in once in a blue moon and share about working an in-house program seem rare except for those living in isolation (re: no meetings available)
It seems you're far more likely to hear a person with time say they stopped going to meetings and slipped.
As opposed to someone saying they had been attending meeting regularly but were negligent in other areas and thus went out.
Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
I think it's fair to say that whatever your program or plan is, it won't work if you don't follow it. The exact details of HOW one follows their plan will be different, but the key is to find what works and not only keep doing it, but evolve it as needed.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: mountains of BC, Canada
Posts: 246
I woman with over 25 years spoke up at a meeting I was at recently and said that after 16 years she had stopped going to meetings. She realized that she had also stopped working on herself as a result and that she wasn't "drinking" but she might as well have been drunk at that time as she started to stagnate and problems festered - she stopped using the tools and reminders to find out what each problem was trying to teach her.
She felt that for anything she is faced with she can find which step they fit into and how to turn over a problem, let it go and/or learn from it. I like that idea - I'm sticking with meetings and always come home confident in the day I got through and the unwavering support of the program.
She felt that for anything she is faced with she can find which step they fit into and how to turn over a problem, let it go and/or learn from it. I like that idea - I'm sticking with meetings and always come home confident in the day I got through and the unwavering support of the program.
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