Mountainmanbob

This happens to me all so often.

We are growing up in sobriety I guess.

Just think how it would be if we were drunk.

We see that there is a much brighter side to all this.

Mountainman

IOAA2

I can’t answer for the complexities of statistics. I live in an area about 65 miles by about 6 miles for an average, with a population of around 215,000. I was speaking of a noon time meeting. The area has around 200 meetings a week. I’d guess there are many reasons people don’t show up at meetings including sickness, private meetings, resentments and on and on. In this area most people are home owners and the average length of ownership is around 5 years.
Just because people stop going to meetings does not mean they are drinking. I stayed away for around 8 years for the most part because I got tired of the same old same old. That was my action not the program and fortunately I had a good foundation and didn’t have a desire to drink, I won’t speak of my insanity reactions to what had been sane for years of no drinking.

BE WELL

Gottalife

My success rate is 100%, and I keep following the simple suggestions, and I stay sober.

My entire line of sponsorship were 100% successful, they followed the same suggestions and never drank again, dieing of natural causes.

A few of the people I have sponsored have followed the suggestions and been 100 percent successful, and some of the people I have met in the fellowship have done the same thing. There are even some who havent followed the suggestions who have been successful, but there are a huge number who dont follow the suggestions and wonder why they fail, after all, the only requirment for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

The definition of the alcoholic is problematic in this context. Research shows that 20% of our population has some form of alcohol use disorder, the vast majority being mild to moderate. These people don't need AA, they will be fine on their own or with a bit of medical help, and we now have doctors GPs with specific training in this.
A lot of them come to AA, stay a while, then go get on with their lives no problem.

Then there is the AA type, "beyond human aid" severe alcohol use disorder alcoholics. Jung talked about rare spontanious recoveries among this group. The professionals tell us that AA is a fantastic organisation for these cases.

Conversion experience is regarded as essential to full recovery and AA have the most effective means of bringing this about. There is still no medication to bring it about even though they have been trying for years. And it only happens if the alcoholic is willing to follow the simple suggestions.

desypete

sorry for not replying to your post so here goes : )

i came to aa when i was just 23, i stayed in aa for 3 years and i was just saying to people in the meeting what they wanted me to say i wasnt honest at all
i had found a new toy or a quick fix for me and it worked well
i got bored of it all and cut down on meetings until i did just 1 a week and then left altogether

my problem with the booze back then was i was a weekend binge drinker who got into trouble all the time and i had had enough

they warned me in aa if i didnt keep coming back one day i would drink again and they also warned me that if i carried on drinking then one day my drinking would progress to drinking daily and i would end up losing everything just like they had

stayed sober on my own for 15 years until i finaly picked up the drink and within 8 years from picking up that first drink
i ended up drinking daily, lost my business my home my wife my kids all my money
i ended up in a hostel run flat and i was lucky to have that
i even remember walking the street looking for money on the floor or cigerette butts as i was skint.

so the point of this thread is to wake people up who might be treating aa as a secondary thing in there life like i once did
the success rate proves to me that many will follow in the path i did when i was first around aa

so i hope people will want to still be around in 20 years time and not be one of the minus numbers

if they cut out aa from there life as they dont need it now as they have god its the biggest mistake they can ever make in my eyes

i see it all over people dont need aa anymore or a lot less, some even believe they can do it one there own with no help at all
just like i did when i went for 15 years then picked up again
i stayed dry and never knew what real sober living was all about

people should be saying right i will go to aa tonight to see if i can help a new comer or an old timer who might need a bit of company working that 12 step not just the first 11 that is all about them

i dont know if i am making sense here or not ?
but the sucess rate i know is a pretty good reflection of aa as people come stay for a while share the most amazing shares and then one day they tire of it all and dont come back
i dont know if they have all gone back drinking again or not or what happens to them but when some return its to tell the same old tale
i thought i had it !!! i thought i didnt need aa !!! i thought i could do this on my own !!!!
many of us will have heard all these storys and the sad part is when they do come back its always worse than it ever was before

so the point of this is i dont want people to leave aa

desypete

lol i know how you feel on that sometimes that need to be right kicks in

i have many times wished i hadnt openend my mouth at times as i am so passionate about aa and how i see that it works
but of course its only how it works for ME !!! and we are all different
thanks for your honesty in this post as you made me have a look at myself to
thats just how aa works in my life some one can say somthing in a meeting and bingo i have an answer to whats troubling me or i can let somthing go that i might be fighting on : )

Boleo

Perhaps we are looking at the definition for "success" all wrong. What I see is a lot of people come into recovery because some authority figure has given them an ultimatum.

They do just enough, just long enough, to meet their objective. Then they go back to living their old life. Long term sobriety my not be on their list of objectives...

Mission accomplished.

2muchpain

I have seen people relapse after working the steps. One guy had something around 22 years of sobriety and relapsed, so it does happen.

jdooner

Impossible. What you are referring to is someone who has worked the steps past tense but moves away from living in steps 10-12. It is impossible to relapse in steps 10-12 in my opinion but its easy to move away from the program for one reason or another.

Its alright that you disagree - you can't see this yet. There are other methods too 2Much and I hope they work for you.

wheresthefun

I don't know if I should keep coming back here for the amusement factor, or head for zee hills!!!!

Really people, really?

PurpleKnight

A few have expressed the point of debating this issue, part of me thinks we could probably go round and round on this question for years!!

But because there may not be an answer to the question, that doesn't necessarily mean there is no purpose or fruit from the thread, these more in depth topics in the "Alcoholism" section take up soo much of my time reading and replying to, but that just means I'm not drinking, another hour Sober.

Sure they drive me insane sometimes, but engaged in debate keeps us all away, a distraction, focused on what our priority is, not to pick up an alcoholic drink today!!

awuh1

A quick aside on this thought for those who suffer from it. I prefer not to think of it as being right. The truth is not something that exists in me. It is something separate from me. My perception of it will never be perfect. All I can hope for is to align myself with it, because in the end truth wins the argument not me.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled argument.

mick3580

My question would be, was he actively working steps 10-12 every day when this relapse happened ? Working the 12 steps and relapsing happens, but I've never seen it with anyone growing spiritually every day in steps 10-12.

2muchpain

Good point. I've never talked to him, so I don't know if he was working on steps 10-12.

Stoogy

No one can guarantee relapse will not happen regardless of 12 steps etc, the only thing certain in life is death- fact.

desypete

on this i would have to agree as i do live 10 - 12 each day

my step 10 i do all day without even knowing i am doing it
the moment i get troubled or feel uneasy i have to think what i have just done ? question myself to see the answer or if i can not see my sponsor will so a quick call to him would be in order if i was stuck
but i dont use my sponsor half as much as i used to simply because i have grown

11 i do deep breathing holding in a deep breath and letting it out slowly i can feel that ease

12 well this is the step that keeps me sober
no other step will in my book
just go and sit with a down and out for 5 mins and tell me what you feel after it : )

fairlyuncertain

Every diet will work--if you stick to it. Question is really what percentage of people can stick to it?

maybe 100% of people who work the steps will remain sober. Then, what people are really wondering is, what percentage of people can faithfully work the steps in order to remain sober for the rest of their lives?

caboblanco

AA gets good press..... end of story

same recovery rate as anything else

gardendiva

And taxes.

Dee74

Members are reminded that Tolerance is one of our guiding principles here

Rule 4 should also be remembered

thanks
Dee
Moderator
SR

desypete

if that was the case and 100% people who work the steps stayed sober then i wouldn't have a leg to stand on with my argument
but its not that way at all. i know countless memebers of aa who worked the steps said all the right things in meetings yet have either died from the drink or relapsed time and again

its not make believe its what i see happening in the fellowship

hence the low success rate