How many here identify as agnostic/atheist and how this impact your recovery?
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17
I feel compelled to defend the Christian teaching here. Just because the Church of X,Y, Z religion decides to fight each other and cause problems for people, doesn't mean these churches/religions accurately reflect the teaching of Jesus in the four gospels. That teaching is explicitly non-violent.
I do not belong to any church or AA, but I find it irritating when people dump on Jesus and ascribe to him the twisted philosophies of any particular church/religion. I think his teaching is a beautiful one and has given me a reason not to pick up a drink on days where I might have otherwise.
I do not belong to any church or AA, but I find it irritating when people dump on Jesus and ascribe to him the twisted philosophies of any particular church/religion. I think his teaching is a beautiful one and has given me a reason not to pick up a drink on days where I might have otherwise.
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by copernicus 
I do not belong to any church or AA, but I find it irritating when people dump on Jesus and ascribe to him the twisted philosophies of any particular church/religion. I think his teaching is a beautiful one and has given me a reason not to pick up a drink on days where I might have otherwise.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 13
I call myself agnostic, which I guess makes me a fence sitter, but if pinned down I don't believe there is any divine being guiding my thoughts and actions. So to some that would make me an atheist. But I can give some credence to Deism, the belief that a divine watchmaker created the Earth and the universe and then left the scene to allow humans to pursue free will.
One thing I question is those who claim to be agnostics or even atheists yet claim to believe in “spiritualism.” I don't know what that means but I wouldn't criticize anyone who finds a path to sobriety no matter what the belief. I believe in science and I have see no evidence of a spirit inside of my brain, only electro-chemical reactions guided by thousands or millions of years of evolution.
I've heard educated rationalists speak of “spiritualism” and I would really like to know what they mean by that term.
I cling to my agnosticism because I just don't know. I've never in my life seen evidence of a deity but my personal lack of evidence or experience does not mean none exists. Obviously if the heavens opened up and God spoke to me I would reevaluate my positions.
In the end, however, if you get sober it doesn't matter what you believe.
One thing I question is those who claim to be agnostics or even atheists yet claim to believe in “spiritualism.” I don't know what that means but I wouldn't criticize anyone who finds a path to sobriety no matter what the belief. I believe in science and I have see no evidence of a spirit inside of my brain, only electro-chemical reactions guided by thousands or millions of years of evolution.
I've heard educated rationalists speak of “spiritualism” and I would really like to know what they mean by that term.
I cling to my agnosticism because I just don't know. I've never in my life seen evidence of a deity but my personal lack of evidence or experience does not mean none exists. Obviously if the heavens opened up and God spoke to me I would reevaluate my positions.
In the end, however, if you get sober it doesn't matter what you believe.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Western ny
Posts: 388
Hey Cow, I'm an atheist too. Was raised Roman Catholic but stopped believing when I was around 12, 13 or so? My parents still forced me to go to church and Sunday school classes until it came time for my confirmation in which case I basically hid and didn't show up. The nun who taught the Subday school class came to my house and tried to drag me there!
Anyway I guess the way it's impacted my recovery is I know it's all on me to stay sober. I don't believe any supernatural being is gonna help me if I pray to him( because God is a white man with a big white beard duh) Yes if there was a supreme deity to help me along every step of the way that would sure make things easier, but I can't be swayed in the slightest to believe in it. I've tried to with an open mind and it just seems like such a man made construct to me.
Still I find that AA meetings and ideas have helped. I just have to ignore the god talk and listen to the rest at meetings and I do use the one day at a time philosophy
Anyway I guess the way it's impacted my recovery is I know it's all on me to stay sober. I don't believe any supernatural being is gonna help me if I pray to him( because God is a white man with a big white beard duh) Yes if there was a supreme deity to help me along every step of the way that would sure make things easier, but I can't be swayed in the slightest to believe in it. I've tried to with an open mind and it just seems like such a man made construct to me.
Still I find that AA meetings and ideas have helped. I just have to ignore the god talk and listen to the rest at meetings and I do use the one day at a time philosophy
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
I never believed in god as I was was taught about God in catholic school. I never believed in any god as described in any other religion I looked into or studied briefly. I wanted to. I tried to. Earnestly and for prolonged periods of time, yet it never came.
What I did always believe was that there was some force that humans would probably never understand, that puts the life, love, and energy in all things - living or not. A creative force, a power, an energy, a life force, a healing force, a good.
When I got into AA I quickly realized that I could call that power "god", for simplicity sake and practical purposes. I also, out of desperation, took the suggestion to pray to that power whether I believed it would work or not. I prayed, and it worked. And it still works. And in 30 sober years of using it, I can't deny that.
I've often thought about the fact that maybe it's a self fulfilling prophecy, I'm tricking myself, it's all simply due to belief and not actually any kind of god... but even in my most faithless moments, the simple (seemingly ridiculous) action of getting on my knees and praying, has pulled me through to the other side of whatever it is was facing. Didn't always eliminate fear or soften the ride, but got me through it. Most importantly, without a drink. And over time, it's healed me in countless ways.
What I've come believe after many experiences applying the 12 steps to my life is this. And this has nothing to do with AA as written, it's my experience, my opinion, and won't be found in any BB quotes. I believe in a powerful and benevolent universe. Seeing the stars night after night, how a tiny seed can grow into a giant Oak, and how all things work beautifully before humans get a hold of them is assurance enough for me. I believe I can release myself to that universe through prayer (or a heartfelt and sincere 3rd step), only because we haven't yet found another way. By doing that, and working all 12 steps I'm able to get out of my own way and let all things flow as they should. I can't do that regularly, in fact, I struggle with it often - yet I find when I am living and functioning in that manner, things go best in my life, and I'm the most content and happy.
Was going to end this by saying it works, so I don't question it, but I do question it. And even when I come up with very logical reasons why it shouldn't work, it keeps on working. So I keep on doing it.
What I did always believe was that there was some force that humans would probably never understand, that puts the life, love, and energy in all things - living or not. A creative force, a power, an energy, a life force, a healing force, a good.
When I got into AA I quickly realized that I could call that power "god", for simplicity sake and practical purposes. I also, out of desperation, took the suggestion to pray to that power whether I believed it would work or not. I prayed, and it worked. And it still works. And in 30 sober years of using it, I can't deny that.
I've often thought about the fact that maybe it's a self fulfilling prophecy, I'm tricking myself, it's all simply due to belief and not actually any kind of god... but even in my most faithless moments, the simple (seemingly ridiculous) action of getting on my knees and praying, has pulled me through to the other side of whatever it is was facing. Didn't always eliminate fear or soften the ride, but got me through it. Most importantly, without a drink. And over time, it's healed me in countless ways.
What I've come believe after many experiences applying the 12 steps to my life is this. And this has nothing to do with AA as written, it's my experience, my opinion, and won't be found in any BB quotes. I believe in a powerful and benevolent universe. Seeing the stars night after night, how a tiny seed can grow into a giant Oak, and how all things work beautifully before humans get a hold of them is assurance enough for me. I believe I can release myself to that universe through prayer (or a heartfelt and sincere 3rd step), only because we haven't yet found another way. By doing that, and working all 12 steps I'm able to get out of my own way and let all things flow as they should. I can't do that regularly, in fact, I struggle with it often - yet I find when I am living and functioning in that manner, things go best in my life, and I'm the most content and happy.
Was going to end this by saying it works, so I don't question it, but I do question it. And even when I come up with very logical reasons why it shouldn't work, it keeps on working. So I keep on doing it.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central America/Florida USA
Posts: 4,064
I'm an atheist - one might even call me an "anti-theist", as I feel that belief in God is actually harmful to the advancement of civilization today. I'm on board with Richard Dawkins, who says that stupid beliefs should not be above ridicule. That said, I've found it's a lot of hot air wasted. I can't "convert" anyone by venting my frustrations. If someone wants to get into it with me, that's fine. But I'm done starting the fights.
In regards to AA, you're right to be wary. I don't like it. That said, in the early goings I had to go to AA to complete my rehab stint, so I went. I said the prayers and all that BS. And you know what? I actually enjoyed some of it. The speakers, the big rooms full of "people like me" - it was comforting. These were healthy, smart, happy people (at least, some of them were).
Being an atheist in recovery has been great. While I don't gravitate to the AA-style support groups, I have found another kind of freedom in remembering that this is my ONE LUCKY CHANCE to be alive. And I want to be here to see everything I can before the lights go out. Our brains are amazing - and yeah, it's a shame they stop functioning after we pass away. That said, it would be even more of a shame not to take advantage of this brief life we have!
Nothing helps me embrace my atheist lifestyle more than travel and exploring. I went by myself down to the jungles of Central America and lived in a tiny wooden shack for 3 months after getting sober. I saw so many interesting things! Did people think I was going off the deep end? Sure. But who gives a rat's arse?
As atheists, we don't live so that we can claim a prize at the finish line. This life IS the prize, Cow.
Atheist and neuroscientist Sam Harris has a wonderful 5-minute video that really puts things into perspective for me as an atheist in recovery. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF8FpPaukDY
In regards to AA, you're right to be wary. I don't like it. That said, in the early goings I had to go to AA to complete my rehab stint, so I went. I said the prayers and all that BS. And you know what? I actually enjoyed some of it. The speakers, the big rooms full of "people like me" - it was comforting. These were healthy, smart, happy people (at least, some of them were).
Being an atheist in recovery has been great. While I don't gravitate to the AA-style support groups, I have found another kind of freedom in remembering that this is my ONE LUCKY CHANCE to be alive. And I want to be here to see everything I can before the lights go out. Our brains are amazing - and yeah, it's a shame they stop functioning after we pass away. That said, it would be even more of a shame not to take advantage of this brief life we have!
Nothing helps me embrace my atheist lifestyle more than travel and exploring. I went by myself down to the jungles of Central America and lived in a tiny wooden shack for 3 months after getting sober. I saw so many interesting things! Did people think I was going off the deep end? Sure. But who gives a rat's arse?
As atheists, we don't live so that we can claim a prize at the finish line. This life IS the prize, Cow.
Atheist and neuroscientist Sam Harris has a wonderful 5-minute video that really puts things into perspective for me as an atheist in recovery. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF8FpPaukDY
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 476
I'm an atheist, and no....... it hasn't affected my sobriety at all.
On the same note, i still haven't even gone to any "meetings" and such........... partly because i feel those places are pro-religion and it will be awkward if i show up and that's the case, but also because i am shy/an introvert and i prefer to keep to myself.
Honestly? I don't see what "religion" has to do with quitting alcohol............ i just stopped drinking.
Other than being difficult in the start and the relative boredom of sobriety, quitting is fairly simple............ not EASY, but simple.
On the same note, i still haven't even gone to any "meetings" and such........... partly because i feel those places are pro-religion and it will be awkward if i show up and that's the case, but also because i am shy/an introvert and i prefer to keep to myself.
Honestly? I don't see what "religion" has to do with quitting alcohol............ i just stopped drinking.
Other than being difficult in the start and the relative boredom of sobriety, quitting is fairly simple............ not EASY, but simple.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,195
Originally Posted by matt4x4
Agnostic is Greek for "Without Knowledge", doesn't mean you do not believe.
As for Athiest, in actual fact, every man, woman and child deep down in their core of cores believes in something. Now it might be blocked by prejudice, or fear, or anger, or resentment, or whatever. But no one is trully an Athiest.
As for Athiest, in actual fact, every man, woman and child deep down in their core of cores believes in something. Now it might be blocked by prejudice, or fear, or anger, or resentment, or whatever. But no one is trully an Athiest.
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
BigS, I loves Richard Dawkins, and commend outspokenness of the late Hitchens, and especially comics Ricky Gervais and Bill Maher, who I know is taking big risk to speak they truth. Is like antheists is in transition period of slowly coming out of closet.
Snarkbunny, point taken. But please keeps in mind I write that piece as performance piece from my "Cow" show and from perspective of animal okay? I not know actual what animals is thinking. But I pretty sure they not believe in god. At least I never sees them praying or segregating into religious faction. ...and god know they fornicates like hell.
Snarkbunny, point taken. But please keeps in mind I write that piece as performance piece from my "Cow" show and from perspective of animal okay? I not know actual what animals is thinking. But I pretty sure they not believe in god. At least I never sees them praying or segregating into religious faction. ...and god know they fornicates like hell.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 39
I consider myself agnostic, and I am doing AA, but ending meetings with the Lord's Prayer when the fellowship supposedly allows members to define a HP of their own choosing definitely bugs me a bit, as that is unquestionably a Christian prayer. Not that I don't know it by heart, having grown up Catholic, and I do go through the motions of saying it. However, relating it to my chosen HP is difficult because for years I associated 'The Lord' with an almighty, all-powerful, all-seeing, just/loving, jealous/vengeful, humanoid Holy Trinity called God, and that is not what my HP is.
Woe is Moo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,746
I remember listening to some pastor sermon on CD, I not remember who it is. (But I always open to explore anything.) Now, I not relate to most anything this guy saying. But he say one thing. He say, if you was to wake up tomorrow with total amnesia, not know who you is or what you has experience, first simple thing you would discover is that: positive thought and kind deed make YOU feel better, and negative thought and unkind deed make YOU feel worse. He keep talking, but I remember thinking, woah, sermon over, that not need god or anything else.
PS. Before reader of voluminous, dread soak Cow threads busts me cuz I total negative thinker with severe anhedonia, melancholia and frequent depressions, we talking about a clean slate scenario in this example, okay?
PS. Before reader of voluminous, dread soak Cow threads busts me cuz I total negative thinker with severe anhedonia, melancholia and frequent depressions, we talking about a clean slate scenario in this example, okay?
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
well, i dealt with it by going to secular peer support, both online and face-to-face. i found LifeRing online and was lucky enough to have a meeting here in Vancouver, too.
and since i wasn't powerless nowaynohow and not a god-believer and even if i were i'd never understand or accept that god or a higher power was needed to get and stay sober...off i went on my secular route.
that was seven years ago.
along the way, hm, after two or three years, i finally grasped, after much torturous examining of my own experience drinking when i had decided not to (over and over) and examining with the help of others on my secular forum concepts of power, agency, choice, control....well, i grasped that i had indeed been powerless in regards to alcohol.
later along that route, i started checking out AA, something i'm still doping. a 'spiritual solution' started making sense to me as i had more years of sobriety and could see better what the drinking had been for/about, so to speak. for me.
i don't know where you are that being an atheist is not accepted, but there are other places to go. sr is a reasonable example
and, hm, it's an option to practice NOT pushing back, yes? waste of energy to argue and defend against personal beliefsystems of that sort, i find. hard to resist, though, at times, for me. gets easier with longer term sobriety. for me.
to answer more specifically to your question/thread title, i'd say that my beliefs or lack thereof impacted my recovery by steering me to the place that was right for me at that time and away from where i couldn't have gone at all, and then later my recovery impacted me in such a way that my view changed.
these are vast generalizations, Cow.
and since i wasn't powerless nowaynohow and not a god-believer and even if i were i'd never understand or accept that god or a higher power was needed to get and stay sober...off i went on my secular route.
that was seven years ago.
along the way, hm, after two or three years, i finally grasped, after much torturous examining of my own experience drinking when i had decided not to (over and over) and examining with the help of others on my secular forum concepts of power, agency, choice, control....well, i grasped that i had indeed been powerless in regards to alcohol.
later along that route, i started checking out AA, something i'm still doping. a 'spiritual solution' started making sense to me as i had more years of sobriety and could see better what the drinking had been for/about, so to speak. for me.
i don't know where you are that being an atheist is not accepted, but there are other places to go. sr is a reasonable example
and, hm, it's an option to practice NOT pushing back, yes? waste of energy to argue and defend against personal beliefsystems of that sort, i find. hard to resist, though, at times, for me. gets easier with longer term sobriety. for me.
to answer more specifically to your question/thread title, i'd say that my beliefs or lack thereof impacted my recovery by steering me to the place that was right for me at that time and away from where i couldn't have gone at all, and then later my recovery impacted me in such a way that my view changed.
these are vast generalizations, Cow.
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