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How many here identify as agnostic/atheist and how this impact your recovery?



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How many here identify as agnostic/atheist and how this impact your recovery?

Old 06-13-2014, 01:37 PM
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Cow
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Question How many here identify as agnostic/atheist and how this impact your recovery?

I curious of you experiences. As atheist, I has experience lot of pressures both in rehab and AA. Is not outright dismissal, but is attitude of like, "Well, you just not seen light yet." or "You never gonna make it till you surrender to some higher powers." (Both of which I finds insulting.) I simple have no interest in higher power. My personal views is that universe is fantastic and wondrous enough all on it own and not need any gods or higher powers. I not think is any special meaning or purpose to human life, moreso than any other creature. (Is just our little extra glob of neocortex make us hella lot more narcissistic and complicated.)

Lot of time I finds myself pushing back to defend my right to be atheist, cuz is not accepted. (I always say: atheist in the new gay.) Sometime it make me sad/frustrate cuz otherwise I very much like and respects those in recovery settings and only wish to also be respected in turn.

I wonder how other deal with this.

PS. SR Friends, I know this super sensitive topic and I not wishing to offend any believer of anything, so please no throw tomato at Cow, excepting if it organic heirloom tomato, cuz those is really very tasty, okay?
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:45 PM
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I would say that I am not agnostic or atheist, but I also don't consider myself to be of any particular belief. Perhaps it's because I'm not all that involved with religion one way or the other, but my beliefs ( or lack thereof ) really have no impact on my recovery one way or the other. I also don't regularly attend meetings or follow a recovery plan that involves a higher power or religion, so my view might be skewed there as well.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:53 PM
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My views align with yours, Cow.

I don't attend AA meetings, as I cannot deal with the religious/spiritual framework of that program.

I didn't surrender (or believe) in a HP. I guess I rely mostly on myself and and this site to aid my recovery. I had to change my patterns of behaviour and thoughts. From avoiding certain events, places, and people, to riding out a craving, to learning how to cope with stress without alcohol.

Canada's different I think in that we seem to really DO practice a separation of church with government and people are (on the whole) very private with their religious beliefs. (However, the ending of the AA meetings with The Lord's Prayer drove me nuts). I don't blame you for being frustrated with having to defend your right to be an atheist. I wish there was more respect for others who do not hold the same (usually Christian in North America) beliefs and not force their dogma on people's lives on all levels -- whether it is recovery related, proselytizing, or in public policy making.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:56 PM
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Hi Cow,
I don't have any religion. I am probably atheist or agnostic, but I never really sat down to figure out which.
I went to a lot of meetings when I first got sober and I still go to meetings every once in a while. In fact, found a weekly meeting right around the corner from my house that is delightful to attend.
The rehab I went to was twelve step, but they only made us do the first step.
I never got past step one and nobody seems to care.
I am always welcome.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:56 PM
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I probably fit into one of those two categories, I grew up in a religious family, but now don't know what I believe, or if there is something to believe in, agnostic/atheist is probably about right as to where I am from a spiritual perspective.

How this has affected my Sobriety? not in any way, I don't attend AA and didn't attend rehab, so the question of a higher power didn't come into play, the only question for me was am I going to drink today? no I am going to stay Sober until bedtime!! Great, job well done, move onto the next day and repeat.

Sobriety in my mind doesn't have to do with anything to do with faith, Sobriety is about not putting an alcoholic drink to my lips today, I keep it simple, don't drink and my life continues to look up!!
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:00 PM
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I'm not anything and I do go to meetings... And I'm not sure if it is because I attend gay meetings generally, but there are a smattering of atheists in them and they speak openly about it. I'm also a universe person and when I go to meetings that aren't my norm and they are more g focused, I take what I need and leave the rest. I do love the program and how it changed my thinking.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:04 PM
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I consider myself agnostic, but I've always been interested in exploring spiritual systems, on and off, since my teens. Out of metaphysical curiosity, really. Never felt the need to stop and commit to any one of these systems or beliefs.

For me, all this has not gotten in the way of my recovery in my short 4.5 months. It would not even be inconsistent with a formal 12-step approach, if I chose to work it in the traditional way. It would be easy for me to conceptualize it for myself if I wanted to... Just read those many threads here on SR where people discuss their HP concepts - I always find those so interesting, so diverse! And I actually have the impression, that on SR in these threads, there are probably more people who do not identify the HP with God or a religious concept. It does not even need to be a subjective esoteric something, I read and hear many people having very practical ideas about it also.

As I said I do not work the steps formally, but I do like a few aspects of the program, and try to apply it for myself. I mostly just discuss these things with people if I happen to go to AA, informally, most often outside of the actual meeting. Not one person only (like a sponsor) but a variety. I like the varied views. Can't you do something similar? I think simply just the moral inventory and making amends part of the program is cool by itself.

This is my current view, more or less.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:06 PM
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"please no throw tomato at Cow"

Ok I won't throw tomato. I don't even know why I am commenting. I am a true believer in our King and Savior Jesus Christ.

Guess I just dropped in to say, no tomatoes at Cow
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:10 PM
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I don't define it as anything anymore. Last I did was atheist. It all just seems like a religious debate to me now and not a spiritual one. You might really enjoy some of the links on aaagnostica Cow. I'm not in AA so it's not an AA thing. There is one article talking about spirituality:
To begin her talk, Dr. Tarman offered a “catchword” definition of spirituality: “Anything that pertains to a definition of self, mission or purpose.” She distinguished it from religion, which is more about dogma or specific belief systems.

The biology of spirituality begins with an understanding of the divided brain.
The Biology of Spirituality | AA Agnostica

Give that brain some time to heal Cow. Spirituality will come in whatever form it is supposed to. However you are supposed to define your self, mission or purpose you will be able to do that.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Cow View Post
I simple have no interest in higher power. My personal views is that universe is fantastic and wondrous enough all on it own and not need any gods or higher powers. I not think is any special meaning or purpose to human life, moreso than any other creature. (Is just our little extra glob of neocortex make us hella lot more narcissistic and complicated.)
I'm with you on this, Cow. I'm an agnostic atheist. I'm working through AA's 12 Steps as well, but have been doing it a little differently than most, probably. I currently do not attend AA meetings, but do plan to work on finding some more meetings in my area than the Clubhouse I previously attended. I like the idea of a fellowship, and the unity within AA. It's odd that I do, because I'm so not a joiner. Never have been. I think being in a group of other alcoholics is something I need at times, but I also see the program as one of suggestion. And I work it in my way. And that's a good thing. Because this is my recovery. It's not a one-size-fits-all.

So, to answer your question... my worldview of course colors my recovery, but my recovery is also independent of my worldview. I'm a recovering alcoholic just as any believer is a recovering alcoholic, and finding similarities there helps me.

Edited: Wanted to add that I do think there's meaning to be found in this life, and it's on each of us to search for and find that meaning. Thinking Viktor Frankl here.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:13 PM
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Being Atheist in the UK is far more acceptable to the public than is being Alcoholic. Our politicians are shuffled out the back door as soon as they admit to having a drink problem and we have no problem whatsoever putting Atheists in positions of power or trust which I know isn't the case in other parts of the world.

I'm sure many people do find that a faith makes them feel better - but a bottle of scotch used to make me feel better too. What makes you feel good, isn't necessarily good. Religion causes cognitive dissonance - stress between what you observe with your own eyes and ears and what the writings of some old book of outdated, badly-translated, superstitious claptrap says.

Stress of any kind isn't good for us. Better just to admit to ourselves that we have a problem and know that we also have the power within us to fix it. No Higher Power is necessary, just a grip on reality and a ton of hard work.

If it was the case that Atheists were unable or less likely to quit than 12-steppers or Shinto-soberists or Koranic-quitters then there might be some argument for religion when it comes to sobriety...

...but there ain't.

May the FSM strengthen your resolve with the lightest touches of his noodly appendages.

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Old 06-13-2014, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by silentrun View Post
You might really enjoy some of the links on aaagnostica Cow.
I can vouch for AAAgnostica as being an excellent site for this particular niche. I read articles there nearly every day. Great site. And check out the recommended books. I have nearly all of them.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:35 PM
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Thank you all very much for interesting reply.

I should has say, although my 'spiritual philosophy' now very simple, as like Joseph Campbell: "It not the meaning OF life, it the meaning IS life." I has, in fact, after being raise and reject Catholicism, has read almost all prominent spiritual texts, including Bible, Quran, Vedas, Tao Te Ching, Bhagavad Vita, Tibetan Book of Dead, Confucius, Rumi, and lot of spiritual theoretical physicists like David Bohm. And plus more "out there" stuff. I was seeker for long time, but at end of day, I find self in simple Walt Whitman place, where natural world not really need any kind of man-made spiritual paradigm.

Now, I still think is many great philosophical teachings to be had, and I take many lesson from all those text I read. But I also take lesson from Whitman and Eliot and Oscar Wilde and Anais Nin and you SR peoples, and, well, even my own self and own thoughts.

I think in recovery setting is no real point to debate spirituality. Is has come up for me many time, and while I never shy away from stating I atheist, nor does I usual shy away from good debate, is just that I know spiritual debate not gonna go anywhere productive and most likely gonna lead to tensions.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:38 PM
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Godless here...
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:59 PM
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... ... I has to admit Tumbles, sometime I wish to stay sober just so I can say, SEE, I DID IT WITHOUT GOD! But then, I sure believer would say, "No Cow, even though you see only one set of footprint in sand, it was then that God was try to carry you, but collapse under you enormous weight and have to be medivac from beach."
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:02 PM
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I used to drink

now I don't

so either it had no effect or a positive effect
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:07 PM
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I'm an atheist and said so outright (but not dogmatically) recently when I was the "qualifying" speaker at an AA meeting. I think NYC AA has a reputation for being more tolerant of atheism than most other AA LOL!

I attend AA meetings regularly, do service, have a home group, and I talk to someone in the program every day, but I don't currently have a sponsor. I've been told by people in the program with a lot of years of sobriety that the program won't work for me unless I believe in a god, and I've also been told by people in the program with a lot of years of sobriety exactly the opposite.

I think it's obvious that the "full program" of AA has belief in god as its core. I find I benefit from AA a lot, even without that dimension, because I benefit from being around other people who are trying to get honest and are open about their toxic relationship with alcohol. Another kind of sobriety group might work just as well for me, but I need some amount of face-to-face and AA by now feels familiar.

For me, I learn something from listening to the way other people deal with their alcoholism. Some of the ways they deal may not appeal to me now, but it's all food for thought. I've thought a lot about other people's belief in god/gods, and that has encouraged me to look in new ways for sources of sustenance in my own life.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:08 PM
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Agnostic is Greek for "Without Knowledge", doesn't mean you do not believe.

As for Athiest, in actual fact, every man, woman and child deep down in their core of cores believes in something. Now it might be blocked by prejudice, or fear, or anger, or resentment, or whatever. But no one is trully an Athiest.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cow View Post

I think in recovery setting is no real point to debate spirituality. Is has come up for me many time, and while I never shy away from stating I atheist, nor does I usual shy away from good debate, is just that I know spiritual debate not gonna go anywhere productive and most likely gonna lead to tensions.
I agree with that. And I also think the nature of spirituality is subjective. It's just never going to be easily defined. So while our spirituality can be unique, we are not unique as addicts and alcoholics. I mean, yes, there are differences there but we all have addiction in some form going on in the brain, right? Humans are arguably spiritual beings, but we (here on SR) are inarguably addicted to alcohol (or drugs, or X). That's how I see it anyway.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
As for Athiest, in actual fact, every man, woman and child deep down in their core of cores believes in something.
well, matt, if you mean that everyone believes that putting their hand in a flame might burn them, sure, but that's pretty trivial. That's not theism, belief in a deity. Otherwise, gotta ask, how do YOU know what everyone believes?
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