Cow

FT, I know Randi offer million dollar to anyone who can demonstrates extra-sensory phenomenon, but does you know, is he put proof of 'gods' in this category?

I can no prove anything not exist. Reality may be subjective. Is more thing in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in my philosophy. Is just, to me, pretty obvious, with quite lot of evidence, that human make up god.

FT

Yes, Cow, the existence of one or more deities and relationship between science and religion has been debated for thousands of years.

Some claims about the existence of gods or about their actions may be shown false - such as the claim that Helios pulls the sun across the sky.

Who is to say the ancients were not right? Maybe "modern day" theists are wrong!

I am happy for those who have "faith" if it makes them better human beings. Instead of imagining a supernatural manipulator of the universe, I am more inclined to believe that if such a being exists, our human brains do not have the capacity to grasp it.

Looking at life on a molecular level with an electron microscope, one can see nanoparticles and other infinitesimally small matter. Atomic structure appears to be infinitesimally small universes, no? Expanding outward into the macro universe, you see much of the same thing. Pretty awesome. Pretty awesome there are people much smarter than I am who figured out how to actually look at those things.

CousinA

Yes, I'm an agnostic or atheist or apatheist or whatever. I also know that I'm not the center of the universe. Whatever anyone else believes or believes about me is none of my business. I'm happiest and of most use when I live in that space.

-allan

Cow

Me too, Little Piggie, I just wish everybody have same tolerances. I never sure if is up to me to be tolerant of they intolerance, or if is up to me to speaks up against intolerances. I would certainly speak up if I encounters anybody talk to gay person or minority in ways I has been spoken to for being atheist. But then, I think, well, they doing it cuz is 'part' of they belief, they is actual try to save me. Argh, so difficult.

FT, yeah, everything is just arrangement of atoms. And some day, you arrangement gonna dissipate and go do other thing, maybe become coffee table or new star. Who know why energy arrange itself the way it does. To me, universe is giant Mandelbrot set. And little speck like me, pffff. But, as long as I part of it, is kind of awesome.

desypete

i can not argue with the atoms theory as its been proved unless of course we are not proving it but merely seeing it the way we wish to see it

how to prove a negative comes down to how a person thinks and feels what a negative is

for example killing someone is a negative as its proved that the person now is minus there life

no argument its negative to kill someone
but then doesnt that prove its a negative ?

also who is going to be willing to put it to the test by agreeing to be killed to prove its negativity ?

i guess we all accept its negative ; )

dollpart

Interesting thread. I'm still working out my own beliefs so have little more to add, but I'm really enjoying eavesdropping here.

Cow

^Oh great! Now I have to sweep up bunch of eaves!

dSober

You had to know I'd be dropping in here Cow

Cool, sounds like you moved from atheist to agnostic.

Cow already knows this but for the benefit of others, perhaps, I was agnostic all my life until recently. To make a long story short, I now believe God does exist, inside me, and inside everyone. My God is my conscience. I now just try (real hard) to listen to it and DO what it tells me is right. EZ PZ.

Cow

Kaaaaahhhhnn!

PhaseTwo

By listening to your conscience you are proving we don't need religion to provide us with a moral structure because most humans are born with an inherent set of good moral values

dSober

dSober

I agree! I'm not sure if we're born with it or it's learned, or both, but somehow we all seem to have it.

Doesn't make Jesus Christ, who clearly lived and taught, any more, or less human and a good teacher of how we should live. He never wrote it down but people he taught did. Perhaps the telephone game over the years exaggerated things a bit. I believe he was resurrected though, in their hearts.

I've previously posted: God is not about religion... and vice versa. God is about your conscience.

Notimetoloose

Atheist here...I also was raised in catholicism, the dogma and constant indoctrination can leave it scars..

However, I am ok with a higher power, I feel it in my ancestry, in all those who came before me in not only the evolutionary process but also in their legacy in doing and trying to do the right thing for the future generations.

You mentioned this wondrous world. Millions of galaxies, Galaxies we now have images of that are believed to be 10 million years old..Time and space, quantum mechanics...et cetera...these are things that I don't understand but I am part of for a very short time, literally equivalent to less than a nanosecond timeline of the evolution of earth's life.

I feel it when I am walking in nature, any creative process or listening to music or marveling at a spider spinning a web
Ludovico Einaudi - I Giorni
Ludovico Einaudi - I Giorni - YouTube

I have attended AA and even though I am not AA ( not a good fit for me) I can not say enough good things about it how great it was to have F2F contact with others struggling and others succeeding when I felt so powerless. That in itself has a HP effect on me.


I feel uncomfortable when people impose their beliefs on me and I try not to do it.

However, I can get on my soapbox when powerful religions here in Australia have so much influence on our politics and yet they are exempt from paying tax.

Interesting fact, a study was done of people deep in prayer and under a series of medical scans it showed the part of the brain that is activated and lights up is identical as those who are deep in an engaged conversation.

RevivingOphelia

I just wanted to pipe in to add myself as another member who was raised (all four kids reciting the Rosary in a circle on our knees every week during Lent strict!) Catholic turned agnostic or atheist.

Cow

Doh! Pope better get busy fixing up the Catholics.

NTTL, you really think humans is try to do right thing for next generations? Cuz I seeing lot of overpopulations, poisoning of own habitat, destruction of natural environments, annihilation of necessary cooperative species, polluting of atmosphere and ocean, usurping of too much natural resource no matter cost, and many war, corruptions, greed and child abuses. Oh, but also, they start with re-usable bag at Trader Joe. (See I tries to be positive )

mercurial me

I don't know if God is a man, woman, or a palm tree. I've just seen enough in this world and been through events that have me believe there is someone/something watching over my destiny. I pray at night (and floss my teeth), I pray in the morning, and I pray every time I get that horrific twinge of pain in my liver area from all the years I've spent destroying my body from the inside-out

dSober

My daughter, a very active alcoholic right now, was also raised Catholic; by my wife and her Irish/Spanish family. I had difficulty finding a God I could relate to because I was agnostic. I'm beginning to see this as a blessing because I was at least open minded. I believe a good part of my daughter's difficulty finding a God she can relate to is due to her preconceived notion of what God is. I don't think she's alone in this. Not to pick on Catholics... I suspect this is true of many/all religeons, some more than others perhaps. I think believing in God is separable from being religious.

Notimetoloose

I do Cow,...I believe we human beings are for the most part compassionate people.
Compassion has intricately evolved for our very survival, we can see and feel outside ourselves...Ironically our survival instincts, is the same one as e.g. greed and many other reptilian and primitive responses/ behaviours.

dSober

I don't. Not all at least. But some are. I think we all know what it is, but some fail to do it, for lots of reasons/excuses.

Cow

I think we not live in tribe any more and compassion much harder to expand to city and big population. I think we all wish to think we doing right thing for future generation, meanwhile, we drive our SUV, spritz our hairspray, let violent video game entertain our kid, and buy cheap plastic goods from China. I not actual has judgement about this, is just is what it is. I think human over-estimate their "goodness" and under-estimates their selfishness. But, again, I not have judgement, I think is ...to be expected.