Croissant

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I am an alcoholic and not part of an AA program but I still feel deep grief and sadness for the pain I caused my ex. We broke up before I got sober, but one of the hardest parts of my journey is that I will never be able to apologise and tell him how desperately sorry I am for all the pain I caused him.

For your husband to have that opportunity and try and pass it off, just blows my mind, Ella.

LadyinBC

I 100% agree with this. Let's face it, we do horrible things and leave behind a tragic mess sometimes. And when we are recovering it really does seem like it is all about us. We do tend to forget the mess we left behind us. Not only do we have to recover, but so do the family members. They do not come out of this without some kind of damage.

I have apologized to my daughter and we have discussed my drinking many times. Of course, I would rather just forget about it and move on, but that just isn't going to work.

I do not think it is unrealistic of you to expect him to say I'm sorry. Your feelings are just as important as his.

GracieLou

I made this statement because he is working the AA program. The steps are in order for a reason.

I am not saying that I did not feel bad for what I had done, I did, but if I jumped to step nine without doing steps 1-8 then I would not have gotten the point of making amends. I did not understand what I was apologizing for. I just wanted to say sorry and move on. I have to understand what I did, what was behind my actions and to comprehend that everything I did was no ones fault but my own.

It would have been another vacant apology like the 100 times before that I said in the past. Did I mean them in the past? Of course I did but I did not have the tools to back them up. Anyone can say I am sorry but if I go drink again after it sort of reverses that does it not? If I am still saying "I am sorry, but" does that not try and remove my accountability. Before steps 4 and 5, I did not see my accountability.

I feel we really have to see all of our resentments and the part we played in them before a honest and true amends can be made. Steps 4 and 5 are vital to the process and it is a process. The AA program is a guide to living a sober life and in many ways just a plain guide to life. Handling life on life's terms which is something many of us alcoholics never learned to do. I know that I had no idea.

I am not saying that other programs or that no program at all will work. To each his own, I am saying this is how the AA program works, at least that is how it has worked for me.

There can be no and's, ifs or buts in an amends. It is a simple I am sorry what I have done and what can I do to make it right and/or continue to make it right.

It is the first step to healing the damage not simply saying I did damage and moving on.

Weaver

I understand, I am glad you were able to work the steps to your advantage and eventually make amends.

I disagree though. That still implies me, me, me . I knew very well what I doing was awful, mean, selfish etc while I was drinking...I just didn't care. I suppose you could say, after I got sober I saw it more CLEARLY than I did before...I just can't imagine waiting months to a year to apologize to my spouse and family for what I did wrong...because I am "working on me" I know what I did wrong, I think most people (alcoholics) know what they did wrong...they don't need steps to tell them when, where and how to show a sincere apology to loved ones. Alcoholism not only hurt US, but majority of the time...hurt those around us.

This is why I think alcoholism is such a selfish disease at times. It gets a grip on you obviously while actively drinking, and the selfish can even carry over into sobriety if you do not make a conscious effort to free yourself of the entire obsession. It takes time and healing for sure, daily recovery tools etc but knowing what you did wrong is not something that needs to be worked on IMO. I do not think its fair to the other party...or that it is fair to suggest THEM to go to AL-anon or whatever counseling they can find, because the person who put them thru the most pain to BEGIN with, "can't apologize yet, because they don't know how"

Idk...maybe I am just rambling.

Different strokes for different folks eh?

ash0710

I understand your side, as well as his. I was not knee deep in my addiction while my husband was at the height of his drinking before rehab. I was angry. Tables turned nd now he is the sober one and I want our life back. Him remaining distant as I am starring recovery hurts and I feel as it will never get to where we enjoy things again. I want to move forward but its not a option if he is stuck in the past. I don't expect to have it like nothing happened or just forget. But try to work on leaving past in past

tomsteve

this is good, but notice the Op states hubby doesn't acknowledge the devastation. I don't think an apology, amends or whatever someone wants to call it would be very effective if the hubby doesn't acknowledge the nature of his wrongs. it doesn't read like hubby accepts he has done anything wrong, so I don't see anything helpful in apologizing/making amends at this time. sure he could say im sorry or I apologize, but if hes anything like I was hes done that a thousand times and if wife is anything like any of my exes, it got old. after a time of hearing the im sorries and I apologize, the response was either,"yeah,sure" or "dam straight yer sorry."

Weaver

Exactly. That is my point. Obviously it needs to be more than just simply saying "I'm sorry" If he cannot do that, or cannot see the error of his ways...then that, to me, is selfish.

mejo

I agree that we get tired of hearing "I'm sorry" while the addiction is active. But once the person is sober, there should be amends. Sounds like her hubby is sober and has no idea, or is trying to ignore the elephant in the room.

LBrain

groan

GracieLou

Sober and not drinking/using are two different animals.

There is the person that stops drinking and nothing. That is all they do. They continue to be the same person, nothing changes.

This persons apology will be meaningless because they still have all the anger and resentments. They may say "I am sorry" but they do not really see their part because in the back of their minds is still all the justification for them doing what they did or did not do. They are not taking sole blame for their actions. Selfish? Of course it is but until they see that everything they have done has truly been of their own making they will not cease being selfish.


An example: A person fights with their spouse and leaves the house mad. They go to a bar, get drunk and then wreck the car.

The person that just stops drinking will say I am sorry for wrecking the car. In the back of their mind......If you had not argued with me, I would not have left. I wrecked the car because I was mad at you for causing the argument that made me leave and drink. I wrecked the car and if you would look at yourself you would see it was really caused by your anger that started the argument.

The person that is sober, working the AA program and has done the 4th and 5th step will say.

I want to make amends for the incident last summer when I wrecked the car. The accident that caused damage to our car was my fault. It was wrong of me to drink and drive. I could have hurt or killed somebody. I have caused us a lot of financial difficulties because of my actions. The insurance has taken care of the physical damages to the car but I want you to know that I am going to do my best from now on to heal the damage I have done. I am going to do my best to rebuild your trust in me. I am taking it one day at a time to repair our relationship. I hope you can forgive me and that we can both move past this. I am going to make sure that I never put us in that position again by working my program. I am truly sorry I frightened and upset you. Is there anything else I can do to make this right between us?

In the back of this persons mind....I hope they forgive me.


Now I am not saying it is like this for everyone, this is what it was like for me. I was able to make a true amends after I completed steps 1-7 and not before. Before I was still thinking like that first apology. I was still selfish and placing blame on everyone but me.

Again, I am not saying that it is like this for everyone or that the AA program or any program at all is going to get someone to make a true amends, I am just saying an apology is empty without the willingness to change behind it. A true amends and a simply apology, IMHO, are not the same.

DoubleDragons

I think we alcoholics have to face, too, that even if our loved ones and friends accept our apologies/amends, the relationships have often times been forever altered. People have to create protective barriers round themselves when loving an addict and those barriers don't automatically, if ever, come down. My in-laws drank destructively through raising their five children. They were wasted picking us up at the airport when our first child (their first grandchild) was born. My f-I-l died of alcoholism at age 59. My m-I-l quit in her sixties because she would have died from cirrhosis otherwise. She seems to think we all should be this big, close family now and it just doesn't work that way. Sometimes we have to face that our actions have caused permanent damage.

Spinach

Al- anon, may help and if he's doing the steps then at some point he'll find the moment that's right for his apology.
It is difficult and I hope for both/all of you that you all feel worthy and free to love you're lives together.
I didn't destroy my marriage but it must have been miserable at times to live with either someone drunk or a selfish drinker. I could not apologies enough in drunken misery but sober my apologies are still not truly formed to the depth I need , Emma is happy to know I'm not drinking and our lives move on happier.
John.

Hawkeye13

Some damage is too big to undo.

You have a changed version of your relationship or you move on.

I am dealing with this now myself as the former drinker, but now I'm sober and husband
has the growing problem with alcohol. He also carries a lot of anger that surfaces in overreaction and raised voice over things that really don't warrant it.
When I question this I get "well, I lived that way for so many years I just have learned to protect myself" and I feel no matter what I do I can't get away from the past.

So does this mean I'm obliged to accept what he's doing since I did it to him as a kind of amends? Is this what I "earned" through my addiction?
Or does my daily living of sobriety, care to the welfare of my family, compassion in the face of his addiction count for little on the alcoholic amends "scoreboard"?

Marriage is a complicated thing no matter what, but this layer really makes it tough.
I hope you both can find your way through it to healing.

ScottFromWI

I"m a big believer in actions. The best way for me to try and regain the trust of those i hurt by drinking was to not drink. And just as I accept that I cannot drink, I have to accept that there is some damage I did that can probably never forgotten by some others others. And I cannot control that - I can only control how I live my life today.

ellaj

I understand the steps, the idea that actions speak louder than words. I understand not wanting to rehash it on a daily basis. But to ignore it or pretend that it didn't happen isn't healthy either. So how does one have a sit down with a RA without creating stress or fear of relapse by saying "I need to talk about this at least once." Or should I do what he suggested and talk to a priest? I don't see how that would help but clearly I'm the one with the issues because he's "just fine". Resentments? He'll yes. Nearly 20 years of them. Am I proud of him for being nearly a year in recovery? With all my heart, I am his biggest cheering section. Is our relationship worth salvaging? I hope so. Thank you all for your advice and opinions I do appreciate it.

nandm

My experience has been that amends is an ongoing process for me that will likely continue for my lifetime. Often as we grow in sobriety and our perspectives change we realize that we have more amends to make.

It took me 13 years to realize that I owed my mother an amends, I just gave that amends this past Mother's Day. I got sober 3/13/01 and it took me until now to understand the damage that my disease caused my mother. I am fortunate that I was able to make that amends while she is alive as others have not had that opportunity.

When we first get sober so much of our energy goes into just not drinking, even with doing the Steps and going to meetings. I know that even though I thought I was very thorough with my first 4th Step that there are a lot of things that I missed simply because I did not see them from the same perspective I see them from today. I am sure 5 years from now as I continue to grow and learn I will likely find more amends I need to make not just from my drinking past but from my present.

Please don't take the lack of a direct apology at this time as an indication that your husband does not care about the damage that he did but rather that he may not be at a place where he can see that damage and be able to make that amends with you. I realize that it has to be painful to not have that apology and recognition of his bad actions at this time and I am sorry that you are going through that. A sincere, well thought out amends is something that he may be better prepared to give if you are able to be patient and wait until he has grown and matured a bit in sobriety. As others have suggested ALANON might be very helpful as there are many people who feel as you do. Alcoholics do a lot of damage and leave a lot of casualties in their lives. I sincerely wish you the best and as a recovering alcoholic who has had time to reflect on those casualties in my past I am truly sorry for the pain that this has caused you.

Weaver

I do not buy it, most alcoholics know what they did wrong and do not need 9 steps and months and months of meetings to realize what they did. If they do, then that is a character defect of themselves.

It is black and white. We caused others to be miserable, we dont need to know WHY, HOW, WHEN, and every other philosophical term , in order to apologize...and MEAN it. It is unfortunate, because the family, spouse, child etc get left behind DURING the drinking, and they continue to get left behind AFTER the drinking...all in favor of who? You guessed it...the alcoholic.

Humility can go a long way. It is unfair that she has to go out of HER way, go to al-anon, post on here etc in order to cope with not getting an apology. Not to say those things couldn't be beneficial in OTHER ways though.

He is focused on him (as he should be) but he is being selfish.

I know we all have different opinions (and that is good!) but I just cannot get on board with this. At all.

I was a deplorable selfish bastard while getting hammered every night. One of the biggest benefits in my sobriety, has been looking past what I NEED, and seeing how I can be more selfless to others. That in itself, helps with my sobriety, and would help others as well I believe (especially those with families)

nandm

Wow! I am glad you were able to get healthy and gain insight so quickly. Not every is that fortunate. I am sorry that you think I am so defective. I personally do not see it that way at all. Not all harm that we do when we drink is black and white which makes it harder to see until we have had time to grow a bit and gain a different perspective on it. I wish you the best in your continued sobriety but the bottom line is my experience is different from yours and I will have to agree to disagree completely with you on this subject.

Weaver

Thank you, same to you.

Also, I didn't "get healthy and gain insight so quickly" I am constantly working and striving to make myself a better person. I accumulated a lot of rust during my drinking, it will not go away overnight. However, I knew how and when to offer a sincere apology for the pure hell I put my family through. THAT, yes, was black and white for me.

It isn't that complicated, at least when the spouse is clearly upset and hurting. In this instance, I think it is ok for the OP's husband to step away from the steps, bite the bullet and apologize to his wife, regardless of what the rooms are telling him.

I hope his wife has time commit to therapy and Al-anon meetings in order to cope with the lack of a sincere apology, for which I am sure, was pure hell on earth for her.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I wish you well OP

GracieLou

For you. I think that is a key point to remember.

I am glad these came to you so quickly. That is not always the case.

Everyone is unique. We do not all fit into the round hole at the same time. I am a square peg and it took a lot of time and work on my part to shave off the sides enough to fit into the hole and at times I still get splinters.

I think we need to remember what works for one does not always work for another or even if it does, we do not always get there at the same time.

I also feel it is important to remember that the only problem is not always drinking. Once the alcohol is removed we are not fixed. There can be a lot of other issues going on that need time and space to identify and work on them.

I am grateful not only to the AA program but to all the people that showed patience and understanding. They give me unconditional love. If someone had told me to go make an apology when they felt it was time, I don't think I would be sober today. I had to get to that point of willingness on my own.