my aa problem
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
my aa problem
ok here goes with my problem i am facing each day.
i have been a very active and grateful recovering alcoholic, aa is the love of my life and i mean that
i have worked at intergroup level of aa for many years and gaining there prison liaison officers job a job i really loved, i ran aa meetings in prison for inmates each week and it was the most rewarding job i have ever done, my sobriety was a happy one each day i would be just so grateful and work hard to help others etc
so life was good for me and i had a real meaning in my life to help others somthing this selfish person who only thought of himself always had to work hard at each day
then my 16 years old son ended up with stomach cancer just 3 weeks before xmas in 2011 i had to give up my work and a lot of aa meetings while i was looking after my son as also i am a single parent dad with no other family around me other than my other kids
so i carried on looking after my son and everyone i know all were praying my son would get better etc
well the first chemo worked well and my son could eat again without being sick it was like a miracle had happened t was wonderful seeing him eat a plate of food again and i honestly thought he was going to be ok
then a month after this he started to get worse we were promised he would have a stomach removal to make sure the cancer didnt spread and we were full of hope with this that at least he would live but then things got even worse and my poor son had all his hopes dashed when they said there was nothing more they can do and that there was no chance of a stomach ops for him
he quickly deteriorated at home he couldnt even drink a cold drink and i had to nurse him through all this and his little heart was so broke as he just wanted to live he was just 16 and never hurt a fly in his life
he died on the 13th of may 2012 just a mere 6 months from when it all started
so now i couldn't face the world anymore and least of all aa that i loved with all my heart as i couldn't stand to be near anyone who thinks god has saved them from a drink
so the best option for me was to stay at home and in bed mostly as i just didn't want to live anymore with the horror of what my son went through
thats 2 years ago now and i am just starting to attend meetings again although i had gone to the odd one over the last 2 years as everyone knows me aa around my area and i have lots of good friends there
but the problem now when i go i have to let people go on about how much they love god and all the god storys that go with them and its hurting me as i dont believe in a god and never will, i shore this openly in meetings and some people really take offense at me one bloke who was young in sober years wanted to be beat me up as he was so fanatical over god saving him. like i said he was to young in years around aa to know how to handle me not like the older members who have been just brilliant with me as they know i love aa with all my heart and i wouldn't want to hurt it in anyway but i can not and will not accept a god so i am now looking for other types of meetings to attand that dont support the god part and there are a few around but not in my area so it would mean i would have to start one up i know there are a lot of people in aa who would support the meeting as they to feel spiritual rather than a god in there recovery
and in the aa traditions there is no ban on a group forming there are no rules to say you must obey the 12 steps or have a god in your life and yet the problem is i love the other members in aa and i know it would hurt them as they would be scared of this type of meeting . but if i dont do something about it as i love everything about aa i need it in my life but i dont want the god side of things anymore also i think i might need outside counseling for my bereavement my life is empty is how it is i am trying to get back to the helpful guy i was in aa but now this god issue is really causeing me pain as i dont ever want to leave aa
its like your in love with somone but you know its never going to work so you have to walk away but you really dont want to
so help needed here please
i have been a very active and grateful recovering alcoholic, aa is the love of my life and i mean that
i have worked at intergroup level of aa for many years and gaining there prison liaison officers job a job i really loved, i ran aa meetings in prison for inmates each week and it was the most rewarding job i have ever done, my sobriety was a happy one each day i would be just so grateful and work hard to help others etc
so life was good for me and i had a real meaning in my life to help others somthing this selfish person who only thought of himself always had to work hard at each day
then my 16 years old son ended up with stomach cancer just 3 weeks before xmas in 2011 i had to give up my work and a lot of aa meetings while i was looking after my son as also i am a single parent dad with no other family around me other than my other kids
so i carried on looking after my son and everyone i know all were praying my son would get better etc
well the first chemo worked well and my son could eat again without being sick it was like a miracle had happened t was wonderful seeing him eat a plate of food again and i honestly thought he was going to be ok
then a month after this he started to get worse we were promised he would have a stomach removal to make sure the cancer didnt spread and we were full of hope with this that at least he would live but then things got even worse and my poor son had all his hopes dashed when they said there was nothing more they can do and that there was no chance of a stomach ops for him
he quickly deteriorated at home he couldnt even drink a cold drink and i had to nurse him through all this and his little heart was so broke as he just wanted to live he was just 16 and never hurt a fly in his life
he died on the 13th of may 2012 just a mere 6 months from when it all started
so now i couldn't face the world anymore and least of all aa that i loved with all my heart as i couldn't stand to be near anyone who thinks god has saved them from a drink
so the best option for me was to stay at home and in bed mostly as i just didn't want to live anymore with the horror of what my son went through
thats 2 years ago now and i am just starting to attend meetings again although i had gone to the odd one over the last 2 years as everyone knows me aa around my area and i have lots of good friends there
but the problem now when i go i have to let people go on about how much they love god and all the god storys that go with them and its hurting me as i dont believe in a god and never will, i shore this openly in meetings and some people really take offense at me one bloke who was young in sober years wanted to be beat me up as he was so fanatical over god saving him. like i said he was to young in years around aa to know how to handle me not like the older members who have been just brilliant with me as they know i love aa with all my heart and i wouldn't want to hurt it in anyway but i can not and will not accept a god so i am now looking for other types of meetings to attand that dont support the god part and there are a few around but not in my area so it would mean i would have to start one up i know there are a lot of people in aa who would support the meeting as they to feel spiritual rather than a god in there recovery
and in the aa traditions there is no ban on a group forming there are no rules to say you must obey the 12 steps or have a god in your life and yet the problem is i love the other members in aa and i know it would hurt them as they would be scared of this type of meeting . but if i dont do something about it as i love everything about aa i need it in my life but i dont want the god side of things anymore also i think i might need outside counseling for my bereavement my life is empty is how it is i am trying to get back to the helpful guy i was in aa but now this god issue is really causeing me pain as i dont ever want to leave aa
its like your in love with somone but you know its never going to work so you have to walk away but you really dont want to
so help needed here please
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
I'm sorry for your loss desy - and I can certainly understand why you have the position you do on God - that's your right to have that belief 
but why does it matter to you so much if other people have contrary positions? isn't that their right too?
D
but why does it matter to you so much if other people have contrary positions? isn't that their right too?
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
yes it is dee i totally agree, i have no right and nor would i try to take away anyones belief from them but at the end of the day i have to sit in the meeting and hear peoples storys and i just think of my son suffering as some sort of proof in my head that there is no god so then i am not having peace of mind and having a battle inside of me. it never bothered me before my son got ill people could share and believe in whatever they wanted i would be happy for them and enjoy seeing them happy and i really wish i could be that way again hence i am trying to return to aa but it does feel so different a bit like going back to an ex partner who you have loved and got back with only to find its just not the same
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
I am so sorry for your loss 
I don't see why you could not start an AA agnostic group. All it takes to start a meeting is a coffee pot and a resentment: don't worry what others are saying, you d be providing a good service for others.
Check out this website, it has good resources for atheists and agnostics.
A History of Agnostic Groups in AA | AA Agnostica
I don't see why you could not start an AA agnostic group. All it takes to start a meeting is a coffee pot and a resentment: don't worry what others are saying, you d be providing a good service for others.
Check out this website, it has good resources for atheists and agnostics.
A History of Agnostic Groups in AA | AA Agnostica
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Have you thought of going to a grief counselor or support group for parents who have lost their children? My nephew died at the age of four and my sister found a group that helped her a lot. I can't imagine what you must be going through.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
I am so very sorry for your loss. My daughter is dieing so I understand some of your pain but I never claimed to understand God. My conception of a higher power is more vast than my daughter's healing or death. I do know my God has given me strength I did not know I had. When my daughter passes I certainly will not blame anything because I don't know that what is next is not a whole lot better than the life she would have had on earth
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Hi Desypete,
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I went through something similar with the loss of my wife about 7 years ago. She had an asbestos related cancer and was really sick for two years before she died. Yet I was able to play my part as a loving husband and father without the thought of drinking.
After she died, I was angry, almost incandescent with rage, about the whole thing. I talked to an AA friend about this, a very spiritual guy, but he could not help. I realised that what is was going through was grief, not alcoholism, and as such I wouldn't find the solution in AA.
I went to a grief counsellor. The problem for me was that the grief had brought on some really powerful emotions which I could not control. I wondered if I was going nuts. My AA friends did not have an answer. What was happening to me. I remember something similar when my father died. It seemed to tip my world upside down. I became confused over my values and beliefs. Everything seemed different.
I discovered through my grief counsellor, that this was all a normal part of grief and in fact I was "reacting sanely and normally" it helped hugely just to know that.
During the time of my wife's illness, I was active in AA, helping others, sponsoring one or two, which we are told is the recipe for staying in fit spiritual condition. On p 14 Ebby tells bill this is essential if we are to survive the certain low spots ahead. I'm pretty sure that is why drinking did not occur to me, and I have a feeling that the terrible ordeal you went through was survived because you were in fit spiritual condition having invested all that time in selflessly helping others.
I know of others who haven't put in that work and when the bad thing happened immediately turned to the bottle.
I lost the power of choice in drink and I never got it back. Instead the problem was removed by a power greater than me, and all through my wife's illness, and in the years after as I looked after my children, that Power never deserted me. It kept me sober so I could be of maximum use to my wife and children. My wife, non alcoholic, had her own faith and was absolutely solid in that right up to her death. She was an amazing example of what faith can do, always concerns about us, never about herself.
I am grateful that the Power did not desert me. Imagine my children's situation, my daughter was 12 my son 14, if having lost their mother, their father became a drunk.
Life has its tragedies and I know it's very difficult to understand how a loving God, if he exists, could let these things happen. I can't explain it. But I know He was a great comfort to my wife and children, and though I did not share their specific Christian belief, the God of my understanding helped me through in so many ways.
My suggestion for what it worth, is to go to grief counselling. It helped me so much in finding my feet and dealing with what happened, and it helped me understand how the pain can bring about some strong feelings and undermine beliefs that were part of my make up before my loss.
I feel the problem you talk about is much more rooted in your grief than your alcoholism and as such I am not sure AA has that answer for you.
My prayers are with you.
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I went through something similar with the loss of my wife about 7 years ago. She had an asbestos related cancer and was really sick for two years before she died. Yet I was able to play my part as a loving husband and father without the thought of drinking.
After she died, I was angry, almost incandescent with rage, about the whole thing. I talked to an AA friend about this, a very spiritual guy, but he could not help. I realised that what is was going through was grief, not alcoholism, and as such I wouldn't find the solution in AA.
I went to a grief counsellor. The problem for me was that the grief had brought on some really powerful emotions which I could not control. I wondered if I was going nuts. My AA friends did not have an answer. What was happening to me. I remember something similar when my father died. It seemed to tip my world upside down. I became confused over my values and beliefs. Everything seemed different.
I discovered through my grief counsellor, that this was all a normal part of grief and in fact I was "reacting sanely and normally" it helped hugely just to know that.
During the time of my wife's illness, I was active in AA, helping others, sponsoring one or two, which we are told is the recipe for staying in fit spiritual condition. On p 14 Ebby tells bill this is essential if we are to survive the certain low spots ahead. I'm pretty sure that is why drinking did not occur to me, and I have a feeling that the terrible ordeal you went through was survived because you were in fit spiritual condition having invested all that time in selflessly helping others.
I know of others who haven't put in that work and when the bad thing happened immediately turned to the bottle.
I lost the power of choice in drink and I never got it back. Instead the problem was removed by a power greater than me, and all through my wife's illness, and in the years after as I looked after my children, that Power never deserted me. It kept me sober so I could be of maximum use to my wife and children. My wife, non alcoholic, had her own faith and was absolutely solid in that right up to her death. She was an amazing example of what faith can do, always concerns about us, never about herself.
I am grateful that the Power did not desert me. Imagine my children's situation, my daughter was 12 my son 14, if having lost their mother, their father became a drunk.
Life has its tragedies and I know it's very difficult to understand how a loving God, if he exists, could let these things happen. I can't explain it. But I know He was a great comfort to my wife and children, and though I did not share their specific Christian belief, the God of my understanding helped me through in so many ways.
My suggestion for what it worth, is to go to grief counselling. It helped me so much in finding my feet and dealing with what happened, and it helped me understand how the pain can bring about some strong feelings and undermine beliefs that were part of my make up before my loss.
I feel the problem you talk about is much more rooted in your grief than your alcoholism and as such I am not sure AA has that answer for you.
My prayers are with you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
Originally Posted by Gottalife 
Hi Desypete,
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I went through something similar with the loss of my wife about 7 years ago. She had an asbestos related cancer and was really sick for two years before she died. Yet I was able to play my part as a loving husband and father without the thought of drinking.
After she died, I was angry, almost incandescent with rage, about the whole thing. I talked to an AA friend about this, a very spiritual guy, but he could not help. I realised that what is was going through was grief, not alcoholism, and as such I wouldn't find the solution in AA.
I went to a grief counsellor. The problem for me was that the grief had brought on some really powerful emotions which I could not control. I wondered if I was going nuts. My AA friends did not have an answer. What was happening to me. I remember something similar when my father died. It seemed to tip my world upside down. I became confused over my values and beliefs. Everything seemed different.
I discovered through my grief counsellor, that this was all a normal part of grief and in fact I was "reacting sanely and normally" it helped hugely just to know that.
During the time of my wife's illness, I was active in AA, helping others, sponsoring one or two, which we are told is the recipe for staying in fit spiritual condition. On p 14 Ebby tells bill this is essential if we are to survive the certain low spots ahead. I'm pretty sure that is why drinking did not occur to me, and I have a feeling that the terrible ordeal you went through was survived because you were in fit spiritual condition having invested all that time in selflessly helping others.
I know of others who haven't put in that work and when the bad thing happened immediately turned to the bottle.
I lost the power of choice in drink and I never got it back. Instead the problem was removed by a power greater than me, and all through my wife's illness, and in the years after as I looked after my children, that Power never deserted me. It kept me sober so I could be of maximum use to my wife and children. My wife, non alcoholic, had her own faith and was absolutely solid in that right up to her death. She was an amazing example of what faith can do, always concerns about us, never about herself.
I am grateful that the Power did not desert me. Imagine my children's situation, my daughter was 12 my son 14, if having lost their mother, their father became a drunk.
Life has its tragedies and I know it's very difficult to understand how a loving God, if he exists, could let these things happen. I can't explain it. But I know He was a great comfort to my wife and children, and though I did not share their specific Christian belief, the God of my understanding helped me through in so many ways.
My suggestion for what it worth, is to go to grief counselling. It helped me so much in finding my feet and dealing with what happened, and it helped me understand how the pain can bring about some strong feelings and undermine beliefs that were part of my make up before my loss.
I feel the problem you talk about is much more rooted in your grief than your alcoholism and as such I am not sure AA has that answer for you.
My prayers are with you.
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I went through something similar with the loss of my wife about 7 years ago. She had an asbestos related cancer and was really sick for two years before she died. Yet I was able to play my part as a loving husband and father without the thought of drinking.
After she died, I was angry, almost incandescent with rage, about the whole thing. I talked to an AA friend about this, a very spiritual guy, but he could not help. I realised that what is was going through was grief, not alcoholism, and as such I wouldn't find the solution in AA.
I went to a grief counsellor. The problem for me was that the grief had brought on some really powerful emotions which I could not control. I wondered if I was going nuts. My AA friends did not have an answer. What was happening to me. I remember something similar when my father died. It seemed to tip my world upside down. I became confused over my values and beliefs. Everything seemed different.
I discovered through my grief counsellor, that this was all a normal part of grief and in fact I was "reacting sanely and normally" it helped hugely just to know that.
During the time of my wife's illness, I was active in AA, helping others, sponsoring one or two, which we are told is the recipe for staying in fit spiritual condition. On p 14 Ebby tells bill this is essential if we are to survive the certain low spots ahead. I'm pretty sure that is why drinking did not occur to me, and I have a feeling that the terrible ordeal you went through was survived because you were in fit spiritual condition having invested all that time in selflessly helping others.
I know of others who haven't put in that work and when the bad thing happened immediately turned to the bottle.
I lost the power of choice in drink and I never got it back. Instead the problem was removed by a power greater than me, and all through my wife's illness, and in the years after as I looked after my children, that Power never deserted me. It kept me sober so I could be of maximum use to my wife and children. My wife, non alcoholic, had her own faith and was absolutely solid in that right up to her death. She was an amazing example of what faith can do, always concerns about us, never about herself.
I am grateful that the Power did not desert me. Imagine my children's situation, my daughter was 12 my son 14, if having lost their mother, their father became a drunk.
Life has its tragedies and I know it's very difficult to understand how a loving God, if he exists, could let these things happen. I can't explain it. But I know He was a great comfort to my wife and children, and though I did not share their specific Christian belief, the God of my understanding helped me through in so many ways.
My suggestion for what it worth, is to go to grief counselling. It helped me so much in finding my feet and dealing with what happened, and it helped me understand how the pain can bring about some strong feelings and undermine beliefs that were part of my make up before my loss.
I feel the problem you talk about is much more rooted in your grief than your alcoholism and as such I am not sure AA has that answer for you.
My prayers are with you.
so yes thats worked no question about it as far as coping with life without the need for a drink it does work if we work for it etc
i have been scared of going to see grief councilors as i dont want to bring up the dark pain there is no escape in my mind if i do that and just as i typed that the saying face fear kicked in
so it looks like i am going to have to face this thing as i am a coward when it comes to facing things that will hurt me,
my kids mums is still a drinking alcoholic she has been in a right mess over my son and sadly my other kids have turned there back on there mum and i do try to get them to try to contact there mum but there is so much hurt and anger they have towards her its going to take some time, but my oldest daughter on the day of my sons furneral came into the kitchen and gave me a hug and kiss as a thanks dad for not being that drunk anymore, she told me never once did she or any of my other kids think i would run off and drink again and thats just amazing wheni think of how my kids went through hell living with both parents drunk
but anyway thanks again for all the posts
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 861
That is cool that your kids know you will be sober. That is huge! My mom started to get sober when I was 18 and it made a huge difference in my life.
I can see why it would be hard to hear people talking about god when it triggers grief.
EMDR therapy helped me work through grief and guilt around miscarriages and grief when my dad died. I was still sad but it was a bearable sadness after EMDR. EMDR does not require talking a lot. EMDR International Association
Around me, NA meetings seem much less god-oriented than AA. But you might not have NA near you. (alcohol was my DOC.)
Maybe if you found a SMART or LifeRing meeting (whatever is around you), then the god part of AA would not be as difficult? I'm not sure if it would help or not.
I can see why it would be hard to hear people talking about god when it triggers grief.
EMDR therapy helped me work through grief and guilt around miscarriages and grief when my dad died. I was still sad but it was a bearable sadness after EMDR. EMDR does not require talking a lot. EMDR International Association
Around me, NA meetings seem much less god-oriented than AA. But you might not have NA near you. (alcohol was my DOC.)
Maybe if you found a SMART or LifeRing meeting (whatever is around you), then the god part of AA would not be as difficult? I'm not sure if it would help or not.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
Is it right that I understand that you did not believe in God prior to your son's illness?
Do you think it is more of a resentment now when you hear others speak of what they believe is God's healing?
Is it more of a "He didn't help my son."? Like a comparison to others? Is this somehow creating feelings of unworthiness or isolation? Rejection and abandonment?
I cannot imagine how much it must hurt to imagine that God could have helped but chose not to.
I am sure this is how it could feel.
To hear people proclaim how God healed them from drink, but not your precious boy...must be too much to bear.
I believe this would create quite a resentment.
This resentment now has the power to separate you from your love of the AA program.
Or not.
I have learned that so many people believe so many different things in AA, but the one thing we have in common is if we were to take one drink, we would soon be looking for another... *thank you Joe and Charlie...aa speaker talk.
I am very sorry to read of your son. I am very sorry that this happened.
I hope all things get better for you.
Do you think it is more of a resentment now when you hear others speak of what they believe is God's healing?
Is it more of a "He didn't help my son."? Like a comparison to others? Is this somehow creating feelings of unworthiness or isolation? Rejection and abandonment?
I cannot imagine how much it must hurt to imagine that God could have helped but chose not to.
I am sure this is how it could feel.
To hear people proclaim how God healed them from drink, but not your precious boy...must be too much to bear.
I believe this would create quite a resentment.
This resentment now has the power to separate you from your love of the AA program.
Or not.
I have learned that so many people believe so many different things in AA, but the one thing we have in common is if we were to take one drink, we would soon be looking for another... *thank you Joe and Charlie...aa speaker talk.
I am very sorry to read of your son. I am very sorry that this happened.
I hope all things get better for you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 75
I am sorry to hear about your son. My heart goes out to you.
As an agnostic I always feel a bit uncomfortable in meetings. I have my own understanding of what a higher power is. I am spiritual.
I would welcome meetings for Agnostics. There are Al-Anon tailored to Children of Alcoholics and tailored to just women, just men, double winners, closed meetings, open meetings. Can you contact your district AA leadership and find out if they would support an AA meeting taylor meetings to Agnostics - there is a chapter in the AA big book directed to the Agnostic.
AA Agnostics
I completely understand it is not about not wanting others to have their believes and their higher power - it is wanting to be able to discuss openly and honestly with out the need to explain your stance or filter yourself in order to recieve maximum benifit from the program.
I do not doubt if you started a group for the Agnostic you would be reaching others who may have felt alienated and were unable to recieve the program because they were unaware that a belief in god was not required.
As an agnostic I always feel a bit uncomfortable in meetings. I have my own understanding of what a higher power is. I am spiritual.
I would welcome meetings for Agnostics. There are Al-Anon tailored to Children of Alcoholics and tailored to just women, just men, double winners, closed meetings, open meetings. Can you contact your district AA leadership and find out if they would support an AA meeting taylor meetings to Agnostics - there is a chapter in the AA big book directed to the Agnostic.
AA Agnostics
I completely understand it is not about not wanting others to have their believes and their higher power - it is wanting to be able to discuss openly and honestly with out the need to explain your stance or filter yourself in order to recieve maximum benifit from the program.
I do not doubt if you started a group for the Agnostic you would be reaching others who may have felt alienated and were unable to recieve the program because they were unaware that a belief in god was not required.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 891
Desy
I think the sort of pain you are feeling is your true-inner self telling you to stay.
I won't profess to know why everything happens the way it does or why bad things happen to good people. I believe in my heart that death does not really exist. Our bodies fail us and returns to dust but the spirit, love, never dies.
I do know that your story was deeply touching and the fact that you are here, writing this and still sober tells me that you have an inner strength that you do not realize.
Whether you believe in God or not is irrelevant in my opinion. You have a higher power in you already. That much is clear.
Listen to what your heart tells you. You will know the answer.
Best
John
I think the sort of pain you are feeling is your true-inner self telling you to stay.
I won't profess to know why everything happens the way it does or why bad things happen to good people. I believe in my heart that death does not really exist. Our bodies fail us and returns to dust but the spirit, love, never dies.
I do know that your story was deeply touching and the fact that you are here, writing this and still sober tells me that you have an inner strength that you do not realize.
Whether you believe in God or not is irrelevant in my opinion. You have a higher power in you already. That much is clear.
Listen to what your heart tells you. You will know the answer.
Best
John
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
If people belittle you for not being a follower of God ,I think they need to work on their own program a little bit .
As I understand it it is a god of your own understanding .
Everyone has to develop their faith in their own timeframe .
As I understand it it is a god of your own understanding .
Everyone has to develop their faith in their own timeframe .
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Central Massachusetts
Posts: 2,051
I can't see how an agnostic, let alone an atheist, can reconcile with AA over the long haul. The 3rd tradition is all fine and well, but the odds of being accepted by most groups are stacked against the member who vocalizes their lack of belief.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out in the Sticks
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by Johnston
I can't see how an agnostic, let alone an atheist, can reconcile with AA over the long haul. The 3rd tradition is all fine and well, but the odds of being accepted by most groups are stacked against the member who vocalizes their lack of belief.
If someone is not drinking though .
Does it matter how they arrived there .
Im a man of faith ,and don't understand people that don't have faith .
But I do my best not to condemn them also .
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: illinois
Posts: 907
way back when i was a little guy, it was my observations of many of the fervent that started the questions in my mind. they had an inflexibility of mind. they had no use for other beliefs. i thought to myself that blind faith was easy.-no questioning the nature of humankind or the universe, no searching, and then everlasting life! my loving god would send all non-believers to burn eternally, thus vindicating my heaven-sent self.
head on over to the secular forums, desypete. all the fellowship, none of the persecution. hope to see ya soon, buddy.
head on over to the secular forums, desypete. all the fellowship, none of the persecution. hope to see ya soon, buddy.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
thanks leviathan and thanks everyone else for there comments,
i will check out the secular sites i didnt know there was one on here : )
i really want to try a meeting the only one near to me in my area is around about 200 miles round trip so i am going to make that trip as i need to see how these meetings are run, there listed in aa meetings list so have aa approval as recognized groups.
see its very important to me that i never damage aa in anyway as without them i wouldn't be here today is my feeling and i owe them everything in my life and i do continually grow with members help and my sponsors help so these things are very important to me. if there are groups out there who just want to try to bash aa then i wouldn't be interested as i will defend aa as a way of life but without the god part of course
so the best thing i can do is try something out and then see not sit and make my mind up on somthing i have never tried or go with a feeling that it might be bad as thats what i have done all my life but try not to do anymore each day
anyway thanks again all for your kindness and i am sorry if my post upset anyone who does have a strong belief in god as its not my intention to do so i just have to be honest with me as a person and with you people to show you were my problem is in my life today
funny enough i went to a meeting last night and there was a long time member doing the chair a lovely man who has been my friend in aa for many years he is a strong big book man and god man and me and him had cross words one day in a meeting not long after my son had died he couldnt accept how i was feeling and couldnt listen to me bashing god as he seen it.
anyway after this particular meeting he did a brilliant share by the way it was just so simple and he didn't preach in fact it was like a new man
we hugged each other after the meeting and had a little cry to both of us as he knew he hadn't been my friend when i needed him most and i knew i had hurt him when i didn't mean to
also sadly for him he experienced his own niece who was dying from cancer and witnessed her helpless plea that she didn't want to die and believe me when you hear someone you love beg you to help them live or scream there heart out that they dont want to die like my son did then you will really know what being powerless really is
and worse how them things stay with you in your heart were there is no answer for it
so back to the point of me and him meeting again that to me is how it should be alcoholics helping each other out and putting all there prejudices away that's all aa should be about as i love that man and i know he loves me he believes in god i dont but we both believe in aa saving us and that we need each other
sorry for the long winded speech
thanks again all
i will check out the secular sites i didnt know there was one on here : )
i really want to try a meeting the only one near to me in my area is around about 200 miles round trip so i am going to make that trip as i need to see how these meetings are run, there listed in aa meetings list so have aa approval as recognized groups.
see its very important to me that i never damage aa in anyway as without them i wouldn't be here today is my feeling and i owe them everything in my life and i do continually grow with members help and my sponsors help so these things are very important to me. if there are groups out there who just want to try to bash aa then i wouldn't be interested as i will defend aa as a way of life but without the god part of course
so the best thing i can do is try something out and then see not sit and make my mind up on somthing i have never tried or go with a feeling that it might be bad as thats what i have done all my life but try not to do anymore each day
anyway thanks again all for your kindness and i am sorry if my post upset anyone who does have a strong belief in god as its not my intention to do so i just have to be honest with me as a person and with you people to show you were my problem is in my life today
funny enough i went to a meeting last night and there was a long time member doing the chair a lovely man who has been my friend in aa for many years he is a strong big book man and god man and me and him had cross words one day in a meeting not long after my son had died he couldnt accept how i was feeling and couldnt listen to me bashing god as he seen it.
anyway after this particular meeting he did a brilliant share by the way it was just so simple and he didn't preach in fact it was like a new man
we hugged each other after the meeting and had a little cry to both of us as he knew he hadn't been my friend when i needed him most and i knew i had hurt him when i didn't mean to
also sadly for him he experienced his own niece who was dying from cancer and witnessed her helpless plea that she didn't want to die and believe me when you hear someone you love beg you to help them live or scream there heart out that they dont want to die like my son did then you will really know what being powerless really is
and worse how them things stay with you in your heart were there is no answer for it
so back to the point of me and him meeting again that to me is how it should be alcoholics helping each other out and putting all there prejudices away that's all aa should be about as i love that man and i know he loves me he believes in god i dont but we both believe in aa saving us and that we need each other
sorry for the long winded speech
thanks again all
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Originally Posted by Johnston
I can't see how an agnostic, let alone an atheist, can reconcile with AA over the long haul. The 3rd tradition is all fine and well, but the odds of being accepted by most groups are stacked against the member who vocalizes their lack of belief.
http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt4.pdf
The atheist is as firm in their belief that there is no God as the new member who is firm in the belief that their version of God is the right and only one. Both are full of pride and need to just become a little willing to start to question whether their beliefs and values have been useful to them thus far.
I hated God when i came into AA and found out that what i believed to be God was what i thought was taught to me at school and unbelievably in hindsight just stuck with that version my entire adult life until sobriety. Im surprised i didn't still believe in Father Christmas or hadn't made a campaign of telling people how he didn't exist and belittling those that believed he did, i was quite nuts!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
