Weaver

Unfortunately each person interprets the "Big Book" differently.

Personally I feel once you get past the physical dependency of alcohol it defiantly becomes a choice. A very HARD choice at times,but a choice nonetheless.

fini

getting back to the OP:

JTBIV, i don't hate it anymore when people say it's a choice, but i sure used to!
now, i think it's ignorant. lack of understanding what they're talking about. or at the very least not talking about anything that resembles MY experience.

here's why i used to hate i when people said it: because i thought it was true.
i spent seemingly forever battling what i believed to be my free choice to keep returning to the **** i swore i wanted to leave behind.
i was absolutely convinced i had total and free choice about that.
there was no way it could be otherwise. anyone who said they had no free choice was playing the weak irresponsible victim card.
but....butbutbut...finally, then, if i believed that, i had to, uh, well then, it would make me insane or really really sick somehow to freely choose to go back to the place i so desperately tried to escape from...
so, no matter which way i looked at it, i was screwed: either my choice wasn't really "choice" in the way we understand it in other areas, or, if it was, i was entirely nuts.
but i got sober before i really worked that one out for myself (not BY myself)
addiction and/or alcoholism impairs choice. impedes control.
i had been impaired :-) in that different way.

now, after some sober years, nothing to hate when others say it's a choice.
we're in different places.

none of this means that you can't find a way to get and stay sober, JTBIV. you're not doomed.

fini

Unfortunately each person interprets the "Big Book" differently.

i think of that as rather fortunate. mostly.

dSober

I agree. We're not in the army. The Big Book is a guide, not a strict instruction manual. Take what you need and leave the rest.

dSober

P.S.

Step 1) Take what you need and leave the rest.
Step 2) As time goes by, you may find you need more... or less. Repeat Step 1.

RobbyRobot

The Alcoholics Anonymous big book is specifically meant to be taken subjectively as food for thought for those who may or otherwise do make use of the AA 12 step program. Being a spiritual program lived with and based on our own understanding is the entire point of being recovered from alcoholism in AA. Each persons experiences are paramount.

I think its always a choice to drink or not, since drinking is an act of behavior. Its irresponsible not to own our behaviors. As an active alcoholic I chose to have had drank driven by the addiction forces of my alcoholism. Today, I could choose to drink too, but could do so only as an active alcoholic, and nothing but an alcoholic. The instant that alcohol got into my guts, I would of course again be an active alcoholic. I cannot choose to drink as a non-alcoholic. I cannot be a social drinker. I cannot be a hard drinker. I cannot drink for pleasure effect anymore either. All the fun times are long gone, lol... the elevator only goes down now.



Today my alcoholism is in complete remission. Awesome. The choice for my drinking would absolutely require me to first bring my alcoholic-mind back to empowerment. And from such alcoholic-minded ideations (crazy train insanity), I could once again make the surreal choice to reach for that drink and jump back into oblivion... and with that done... it would be bye-bye Robby.

Do I need alcohol the drug itself to end or disrupt my remission?

No, I can end it swiftly enough by de-constructing my spiritual lifestyle and revoking my responsibilities and obligations to same. My spiritual mindfulness sustains my sobriety by keeping my alcoholism illness in remission. The good health of my spirituality is essential and paramount to the quality of my remission. Its a distinct balance dynamically inter-dependent with my lifestyle choices.

Our real life choices dictate our responsibilities and obligations on either side of the drinking question. So naturally, if I couldn't have such subjective interpretations, AA would be less then useless for me, speaking for myself.

soberlicious

The use of alcohol or drugs is the only thing that would disrupt my sobriety, or abstinence. Others may answer differently because of differing definitions of sobriety. That's what's challenging in discussions like this. We aren't starting with one standard definition, so much of what follows is like chalk and cheese.

thisisme

Sorry you hate to hear it but it is a choice. Everything else is just an excuse.
The only thing stopping you from that first sip is your choosing to open your mouth and lift your hand.

Sulu1

I agree with some others that once the physical dependency goes, it becomes a solid choice. I'd still even argue that for those actively physically dependent, it's still a choice.

I'm the one putting the drink to my lips ultimately. Very interesting views, it's good to see all the different viewpoints, if there were one right easy approach none of us would be here!

robgt350

i agree

i work in the medical field also. i seen many patients that are addicits and have dependency issues.

i hear all the time that addiction is viewed as a "disease" and cannot be controlled

i so disagree. i do not view addiction as a disease no more than the orginial post of it is "it's not a choice"

all my days of drinking involved a decision i made to gather the money to buy alcohol, go to the store to buy alcohol, and put it to my lips and drink until i was drunk. i made all 3 choices by my self.
no one made me drink alcohol. i made the choice. just like it is not a disease like high blood pressure, diabetes, or cancer.

dSober

I feel "disease" and "allergy" both have good points to back them up but lately, I'm leaning towards "spiritual malady".

dSober

I must confess, I haven't read all of this yet and I can't right now because I'm off to a meeting in a few minutes. But it looks interesting and I'm going to read it carefully when I get back.

A.A. Recovery - The Missing Piece: The Spiritual Malady

GracieLou

I just call it alcoholism and that I am an alcoholic. I try not to get wrapped up in all the whys, if’s, and buts.

In the end it does not matter. I can’t drink, ever. I have accepted it and moved on. I spend my energy learning how to live sober rather than on what made me this way.

jdooner

I believe disease and allergy have always been meant as metaphors but that is simply my interpretation. I think there is sufficient evidence to support the null hypothesis for both definitions.

BackToSquareOne

In all my decades of drinking I always saw it as a choice. The choice was really a no brainer tho, I could be sober, depressed and miserable or choose alcohol and drugs and instantly feel much better. I honestly couldn't understand why anyone would want to be sober all the time, that type of thinking was very hard to get past. You have to look way beyond the guestion of choice and figure out what's driving the bad decisions. Much easier said than done.

ru12

Until I learned how to be content and sober, my choice was to drink. For a long time drinking was the only real way I had to quiet my mind and let me live in my skin. I am so lucky to have better options today. If I ever pick up again... that will be my choice as well.

dSober

Good thinking GracieLou. Crap by another other name still stinks. Opposite for a rose.

Pipefish

Thanks for taking the time to post this Dsober. It is excellent

Cow

If alcoholism is not choice, you is dependent on drinking life destroying poison and in big trouble and needs whatever help it take to quit.

If alcoholism is choice, you is choosing to drink life destroying poison and in big trouble and need whatever help it take to quit.

I not think it any less "real" or difficult of issue if one is choosing to poison them self.

Pipefish

Go Cow!!! That is profound. Love it