KateL

Is their a smiley with a giant hot dog on it?

foolsgold66

This thread has gone pretty well, considering. Needs moar cowbell, tho.

neferkamichael

Jdooner, you are FANTASTIC, making decisions for yourself is what it's all about. Sounds like to me you're gonna stay sober, rootin for ya.

jaynie04

Another reason I love SR. As well as being an amazing support system in and of itself, it also allows people a venue in which to bounce ideas, frustrations and questions off of each other about recovery methods we are seeking in the real world. We get to go out there and experience and then come back here and fine tune…it's like therapy for therapy.

I believe that recovery is changing…for the better. There was nothing like SR around 20 years ago…at least not that I am aware of. I am hopeful that the fact someone can google "binge drinking, etc" and end up here means a lot more people get off the elevator a floor earlier. I can sit securely in a space that is comfortable to me and be exposed to such an incredible variety of people, experiences, opinions, methodology. I love to have my preconceptions challenged, and often I leave here with a seed planted that I didn't even realize had started to germinate.

And I have immense respect for people who are willing to share their personal experiences with things that are or are not working. I believe my recovery will always be somewhat fluid.

I would never have wished to be born an alcoholic/addict, but I take great pride in being part of a group of people who have been forced to get real and examine their lives so scrupulously. It takes courage. It has been strange to me so far, how little of sobriety is actually about not drinking, and how so much of it is about living honestly.

I have always been pretty self reliant, but here it is the shared experience that i find truly empowering.

I see ego as the center of my psyche, it is how I define myself. The trouble I get into is when I begin to place value on myself relative to someone else. This is usually fear based. And to me stating that there is only one way to do anything is a rigid concept that is fear based as well.

Being on this board has really affected me as far as my reactions to things, I now am keenly aware of feeling agitated by a post, almost always a good time to pause and look at myself. What I am thrilled about is that that reflex has now started to translate to my life in the outside world. That is priceless. It is like muscle memory, similar to CBT, how many other avenues in our lives are we given the freedom to luxuriate in thread like this that allow us all the opportunity to explore our own heads, and bounce our thought processes off of peers we respect

I would do the little popcorn guy if I could..! Great thread JD!

EndGameNYC

Ha! Made me laugh!

jdooner

I trusted my mentor who shepherded me into this program. He helped guide me from the tennis courts to the church cellars. I thought I wanted what he had, success, intensity, drive. Yet, after his party on NYE it was like seeing the end of the Wizard of Oz...he was not the almighty Oz I had thought he was and this was a major disappointment. So I closed up, blamed AA, the program and the people. Ran to Rational Recovery - black and white coming out again. If not one the salvation must be in the other.

In this process of mental pinball, I am pouring the gasoline on myself and lighting the match to show others - classic alcoholic mind. There have been several other recent examples but sufficed to say, I have been in a bit of a tailspin. A sober tailspin but tailspin none the less. Perhaps this is my life being unmanageable without alcohol now?

Feeling a bit lost in the Ocean on my own, I have reached out to my sponsor whom I like and trust. He is flawed too but he has taken me back inspire of my criticisms. I have tried finding a new sponsor but AA is a bit hit or miss for me. I get so turned off by some of the meetings (no need to go into details), yet I see the value in the lifestyle. While RR tends to teach about the disease, I don’t relate to my id being a beast. If fact, I see my AV as a protection mechanism. My mind calls out for a drink to help me cope, so I don’t need to face reality. In essence, I believe my AV is a misguided protection mechanism. Whereas, with AA I see the steps as a lifestyle choice. Yes religion is part of this but I am learning to take what I need and live in my gray a little. I think this is why I find serenity with the steps and I have begun working them again. When I stop, I tend to fallback on the dream of being able to drink again. Yet, I know this is an illusion bc I have no desire to moderate - moderation is for losers.

I felt a responsibility to provide an update, given my open opinions that I have voiced here. In short I seem to be creating some circular references in my recovery.

readerbaby71

We are all flawed. It's very easy to put someone on a pedestal, especially if they have helped you and you look up to them. I think one of the best things about AA is the sense of community and fellowship it gives people. Some meetings are great, some are very very negative and it's good to stay away from those. I used to be very anti AA but I've seen how it's helped my boyfriend and I realized I was being extremely judgmental when I didn't even know a lot about it. Now that I know more and have experienced alanon as well, I am able to take what I need and leave the rest.

If you do feel like you want to go to meetings find the ones that uplift you and make you feel good about yourself. It's tough sometimes to find a balance, especially in early recovery. Tonight we are going to a meeting that is based on the principles of Buddhism. What I like about it is that it welcomes ANYONE who is in recovery, not just members of AA. That is more my thing.

Kudos to you for examining your motives for wanting to run and not letting the disappointment with your mentor derail your recovery. You're doing great! I wish you the best in all you do.

RobbyRobot

Awesome stuff, JD.

You know, nothing beats being all we can be in our own best ways, and so its difficult to just take what works for others, even if its millions of others, and just make it work for ourselves. I take what I best need and leave the rest alone out of both AVRT and AA - not because I have any axe to grind, but because as we apply these methods we change, and these changes bring us new awareness in the "new now present moments" of our sobriety efforts, and we no way had this advantage before our changes. Live and learn. Experience is the BEST teacher. Since I didn't become sober to be enslaved yet again to my alcoholism, even if sober, I keep my options open 24/7. No way I'll simply sign on to whatever, fit myself in somehow, and then hope for the best anymore. Been there done that. Now I purposely do what I do because I'm successful with my efforts. Sustained success is my yardstick, and quality of live is my reward. I'm not unique with this strategy, lol. Lot's of us make lemonade with whatever lemons we have to work with. Yeah, we can all make something work for any of us. Its in the doing and taking stock of our experiences that makes all the difference in our respective successes.

Threshold

jdooner,

Your "update" is a real treasure. I experienced, in my process that I had to have the experience of resistence, anger, blaming, inner struggle, trial and error...all of it...to come to a place where I was ready to own MY OWN recovery. Not pawn it off on this or that program, sponsor, mentor, book or website.

I actually thought that was what I was doing, but in the process I realized I was still projecting, and it wasn't until my own actions and words echoed back at me that I heard what I was saying and saw what I was doing with enough perspective to evaluate it.

I wasn't working a program because someone told me to, I was working it for me. I wasn't confessing to anyone...I was taking advantage of an opportunity to look at myself and evaluate my choices and behavior, I wasn't looking for a perfect person to model myself after, I was seeking someone who would honestly share their own journey with me.

I didn't understand any of that at first. I thought I was submitting to the discipline of others, then I realized I was taking advantage of an opportunity to learn to discipline myself and to learn things that would give me freedom.

Addiction was a short leash. Sobriety was the whole wide world, but with the wisdom to no longer go to places that were deadly for me.

Addiction was tunnel vision for me. I really lived in a world of limitation because I didn't know how to see. In early sobriety I was still seeing everything through my tunnel, including recovery. It was not a comfortable experience that finally brought that tunnel crashing down, but it was paradoxically a life saving one.

For each of us, it takes what it takes.

reggiewayne

Kevin Griffin

If you're interested in Buddism and 12 steps, check this guy out above. I've read one of his books. Very interesting..

As for leaving AA and doing it a different way - it's your decision. AA is there if you ever need it again. Best of luck man.

reggiewayne

The thing I was alway told was to compare results. I understand you have a plan for living and I'm sure it sounds awesome. BUT, focus on the resluts of the plan. Compare it to people in the rooms. Are there people that have been sober a while there who have what you want? If so, ask one of them to sponsor you.

AA is about results. Not theory. RR and AVRT are appealing because it's kind of doing it on your own. But isn't doing it on your own the problem? It was for me. My way, my will, my wants, my needs, etc... Me, me, me. It's by forgetting ourselves and focusing on others that we forget to "not drink". In AA their is some re-programming but Jesus... did I need re-programmed.

At 4 months sober I was not qualified to even know what I needed.

RobbyRobot

The difficulty with making comparisons is there is eventually no upside in doing so. As we change, we naturally re-visit our previous comparisons and re-compare. As well, if a sponsor is chosen on the basis of shopping around using comparisons, then what do you do when the next week somebody is at a meeting who even more floats your boat? Settle with what you already have, or drop one sponsor for a better fit?

Comparisons with others as a model to be where we want to be rarely gives back what was originally wanted. We do best to be ourselves and focus on our own results, rather than hitch a ride on someone else's version of sobriety by being their sponsee simply because they have what one wants for themselves.

Nothing wrong with getting as much help as possible from as many resources as possible, and all this can be accomplished without making comparisons. I know this to be true, speaking from my own experiences.

EndGameNYC

My sponsor has nothing I want, nothing I'd like to be, and nothing I'd aspire to. Except for his sobriety, which he's maintained for over six years. He has several obvious idiosyncrasies and limitations that I don't need to describe here. But he is excellent in at least one thing: Teaching me how he got sober through the AA Big Book Twelve Steps, and how I can apply the twelve step principles in my own life. After working through the steps with him, I was then able to help him through some of his difficulties in life, though this is neither mandatory nor recommended in the AA literature. It's just the way things worked out.

When I've needed surgery, I've never cared what my surgeon does in his personal life, nor did I care about his personal limitations. Same is true when I've needed to consult with a mechanic, a PCP, a computer tech, a veterinarian, a dentist, a financial adviser, palliative care professionals, and then hospice care workers when my father was dying, or a therapist, all of whom at different times have contributed greatly to my living a better, less stressful life. In my field, some of the best therapists have chaotic personal lives, with little indication that things will get better. An older novel, August by Judith Rossner, beautifully describes this very common reality.

Not every doctor is compassionate, or at least not as compassionate as we may like them to be, but I'd rather have House on my case than someone who gives out lollipops after telling me I have a potentially fatal disease.

dwtbd

Jd
For whatever it's worth, to me you are regular meaning you have been posting for about as long as I have been here.
I didn't like the attitude of your initial posts. Since this(reading each other's posts) is really all we know each other, it's all we have so it may not be the best way to get to know someone. But I like the tenor , honesty, attitude or your more recent posts. Something has changed, maybe I did , though I doubt that, being as stubborn as I am.
Stay honest to yourself and keep doing whatever you think is best, from my albeit limited perspective it is serving you well.
Wish you well