Dan

Feeling pretty sad about our decision. But at the same time, I'm glad it was our decision. Something in our relationship just had not been right for over a month. Our daily conversations were still there, but I could feel the shadow slowly coming over us. I started wanting to ease up a bit on the heavy load of writing we had both agreed to when we started my steps. I simply told him I wanted a little more of my spare time to be just that, spare time.
The first inkling that something was not right was two weeks ago when I told him my fourth step was done and that I was looking at a couple people in particular to do my fifth with. He simply said something like... cool then, go for it... and left it at that. That surprised me a bit, but I chose to interpret it as him giving me some leeway. Then last week, he asked me in a particularly nasty way I felt if I was still "doing imaginary step work" on that "so called recovery site of yours". That sent me for the proverbial loop. I wondered what could possibly be the rationale for such a statement. And this was at the end of a couple of hours at his house, talking about PAWS and dissecting some articles and trying to apply the science of them to the goings on in my life. I left quickly after that, and only saw him again this morning, when we decided it would be best to sever our relationship. I'm still a little bit shock I guess. In the end though, he was my sponsor, not my keeper. I heard that from a member here today. And it's true. And the more I toss it all around in my head, I come to the same conclusions. He felt I was straying from a healthy path. I believed him for a time and it made me sick with sadness and contempt. If there's one thing I have learned in recovery, it's to be honest. And to be true in all of my affairs. Including those of my heart.
So goodbye Mr. Sponsor. Thanks for what you've given me so freely.
I will never forget it.

Chy

(((Dan))) sometimes we do know what's best for us!

1Marty

Dan the honesty definately shines through in the words you write. Sounds like the right thing.

Don S

Hi, Dan,
I definitely don't want to start any debate or cause you distress, but I really wonder what the rationale for it would be, also.
Don S

mackat

heh mister
1- principles before personalities
2- powerlessness over other's BS
3- seek what they sought, not what they found
4- if you meet the buddha on th road- [you know th rest]

glad you are ok
lessons as gifts, rarely easy
mackat

Bonni

Hi (((Dan)))
I'm glad your back. And like Chy says sometimes we DO know whats best for us. I had a similar situation as yours about a year ago, where my sponsor and I didnt agree when it came to me going online to recovery sites for help and support with my recovery. She also didnt agree with my taking my prescribed medication for my bipolar/depression disorder. I now have a different sponsor who agrees that I have gotten a lot of help, support and ESH by coming to Sober Recovery and other recovery sites for the past year and a half, and that it has helped me in my soberity. I still go to AA meetings and I believe they are very important in my recovery program. But there are times (most of the time now) I get more ESH by coming here to SR.
I dont know but the way I see it a lot of the oldtimers have not caught on to the online recovery sites. Anyway thats the way it is in my case. My first sponsor had 30 years of soberity and had basically been a member of the same home groups all of that time. Which that is ok! It worked for her, but it didnt for me......So Dan I think you made the right decision for YOU!
Welcome back my friend! Love you, Bonni ((big sisterly hugs))

Rudiger

Mackat- If I were only half as cool as you I'd have it made.

Well Dan. You may just have gotton the most valuable lesson ever from your old sponsor. The writing on our chips say, "To thine own self be true". For me this was a tough lesson to learn. You have been fortunate to learn this, grasshopper. Nice, how with the right perspective, we can find some positive value in almost any trouble. Sorry about the rough time you have had with it, but I am sure you will be all the better for it.

Glad you are here with all of us so called "alchies" on this so called "support board". I may just be a figment of my own imagination. Let me check. S'ok. I think some people just don't get what we do here on these boards. Your posting here may just be more helpful to the recovery of others like me than for yourself Dan. I'm glad you are here. You are here, aren't you?

Rudiger

mackat

Rudiger:
a legend in my mind- a figment of all our imaginations??!!!
And there were waaay too many years where i guess i really wasn't here.
glad you are here. glad i'm here
hugs
mackat

NotThatThirsty

Sounds like you did the right thing for you, Dan. Find another that maybe'll just stick with the step work and "call me every day" thing and very little judging, etc. That's how my sponsor works for me and I love him!
-Josh

Hadenuff

Hello Dan,
First off I just want to say I think the way you have handled this situation totally appropriately, for what it's worth. I believe for me I needed a sponsor who could guide me through the steps, not be my boss. When I had under 90 days sober I was a mess ( 1st year was rough ) so I am very grateful my sponsor was totally supportive even when I made some wrong decisions ( contrary to his suggestions ).
This just in my own experience....I did my 4th and 5th steps and all the others with my sponsor. I think maybe it hurt this guys feelings when you said you were looking for other people to do your 5th step with. His reaction--totally dosn't sound like a sponsor I would want but whatever, just my own feeling from you post.
Just do what you need to for yourself, If SR website is a problem you will know in your heart it is and you have the strength to make the changes. You help a lot of people with your support.
H

Ninerfan

Dan, if you're smart you will call your sponsor and apologize right now. You bet you hurt his feelings. He may never admit it but that is what is going on. It should not matter who you choose to do the fifth with but in the real world the guy you choose to take you through the steps is the guy you use to do the fifth. At least that is how I was raised. Your sponsor should be a big enough man to say, 'Oh sure Dan I completely understand, I've worked with you for 2 or 3 months now and its perfectly ok to do the fifth with someone else.' And the truth is, it is ok, because it is your recovery. But you hurt the mans feelings anyway. His feelings about the internet may or may not mean anything. He may just be pissed about being dissed.

If this guy was good enough for you to ask him to be your sponsor then he must have had what you wanted. And if he has what you want then trust him with your fifth step.

A word about the fifth step. I was going to take the really nasty parts to a priest when it came time to do it. I didn't. I took it all to my sponsor. The guy who befriended me and listened to all my stupid ******** and pretended to be interested so that I wouldn't be embarrassed. The guy who had what I wanted. The guy who guided me not only through the steps, but through the ups and downs of life. That guy. Dan, who is better qualified to hear your deepest, darkest secrets?

I don't know..........Maybe you just haven't built up enough of a rapore with the man or maybe you just think you are supposed to take your fifth to someone else. Is that the case? Or is it fear? Fear that someone who knows you will think badly of you. If thats the case well join the club. Fear is a wonderful thing when it is finally faced down.
But I'm probably all wrong here. And I'm doing a lot of guessing. KCB Dan. The right sponsor just seems to appear when we are ready to let go.

Dan

Had it been him Niner, it would have been self evident.
I appreciate your thoughts, but once again, your tone smacks of long term sobriety addressing a newcomer. 'S cool though. You're probably just guessing. No hard feelings at all.

Kathi

Hi Dan,

I'm sorry you had to go through this but it really sounds like you have handled everything so well! I don't think you have anything to be sorry for.

I don't mean this to offend anyone, so please don't take it that way, but I am in a same sex partner relationship, and I don't have many male friends so I don't normally see any emotions out of men. I grew up with a very reserved dad (who I loved so much) and I had some heterosexual relationships and the one thing I did not see was emotions. It wasn't until I came into my recovery and started going to meetings and posting on line that I saw men who truly don't hide from their feelings.

I know it's a stereotype about men and emotions but I haven't really experienced anything other than that my whole life. It is so enlightening to me to see men who can face their most intimate feelings and share so openly about them. It truly is a gift for me to see.

You know I was just going to go and erase all this because I truly hope no one is offended by it because no harm is meant.

Thanks for sharing this today it gives me more insight into some of the misconceptions I have in my life.

-Kathi

Music

I was asked by a guy once to be his sponsor. Of course, I said yes. Things were going well until we discussed doing his fifth step. He told me he wanted to do his fifth with a priest. I said, "fine, but when you're finished with him, I want you to do it again with me." He fired me. Hey, no problem. Like someone said earlier here, "it's his sobriety." Haven't seen him since.
My Dad told me once, "A good friend is one who knows all about you and likes you anyway." There's a very fine line between being a sponsor and a friend. If my friendship with a guy interferes with me being a good sponsor to him, the friendship has to be set aside, or I'll be his friend and he can find another sponsor.
I have no problem with any of my pigeons going on line. Hell I do. But, when I tell one of my pigeons something and he comes on line to get other opinions, that's where I draw the line. We talk about honesty! What about being honest enough with a sponsor to tell him when something he says pisses me off? I've been sober a long time and have never been without a sponsor. I tried living my life on my own, my way and it didn't work. When I get into my own head, I'm in bad company. I need someone who knows me; everything about me who I can bounce things off of and who won't be afraid to tell me I'm full of crap. What good is it to have a sponsor who doesn't know who he's dealing with? What better way for a sponsor to get to know who he's dealing with than by doing a fifth step with him?
Most of you weren't around when there weren't any treatment centers and we had to rely on other people, face to face to help us stay sober long enough to start believing sobriety was a good idea. I've only had a computer for five years but I've been sober considerably longer than that. I come here to share and for entertainment, not to get sober or stay sober, although reading some of these posts makes me say to myself, "There but for the Grace of God go I."

Patsyd1

Thats a healthy sponsor


Hi Dan,

When I was new in the halls of AA, it was shared with me to get a sponsor who was working the program and had a sponosor of her own. When I was new, I didn't have a clue what was correct or incorrect, and I definitely had some ideas of my own, and it was that sick "thinking" that kept me wanting to do things MY way. My Way got me here.

Dan, it sounds to me as if you had a great sponsor. Doing the work, the writing is what helps us to get better one day at a time. When we make the decision to back off or cut down on our writing, we are also making the decision to remain sick, and its a good sponsor who will be honest enough to share with a sponsee that if they have the all the time in the world to be visiting an on line site, then they have the time to continue with their writing.

Now I am not saying that you shouldn't be here at this site, recovery is everywhere and especially at this site. Dan, there is the real world where we go to face to face meetings, we get a sponsor, we take the suggestions, and we do the foot work, this is where real recovery is, this is where the real 12 Steps are, and the real world is where we have to LIVE comfortable in our own skin, staying sober... and we can not do that in the real world, until we are ready to do the work that is so necessary for our own recovery. We do this work with a real live sponsor, one day at a time. Physical sobriety is the first step........ emotional sobriety comes from a result of doing, apply and practicing the 12 Steps in our own life, and passing it on.

Recovery is an inside job, one that involves doing the work, the inside work with a good sponsor. A sponsor who will be honest with us when they see we are beginning to rest on our laurels and/or put our own recovery on the back burner so that we can do what we want to do OUR WAY.

Dan, I don't know if this sponsor was right for you or you right for him, but I am fully aware that when I was new in the halls of AA, that I didn't have a clue what was good for me, if I had........I wouldn't be a drunk, in the halls of AA or needing the guidance of a good sponsor.

I had no idea that my sponsor was coming from a place of love when she shared with me to do my 5th step with someone who had experience in hearing 5th Steps. I took it like she was upset that I wasn't choosing her. She wasn't upset that i wasn't choosing her, that was me stuck in my own head with my own "thinking". What she was doing in effect was telling me that she loved me enough to let go and let God, and that she wasn't here to control me or my choices, she was here to help guide me to sobriety......emotional sobriety, through the 12 Steps worked, applied and practiced in my own life so that I could make healthy decisions.

Perhaps this sponsor wanted to help guide you to make healthy decisions, like taking the time that you do have and doing the writing for you and your own recovery.

Coming here to this site is good, and one thing that I have learned is that recovery sites are wonderful as an addition to face to face meetings and the real work in the real world with a real live sponsor.......not as a replacement for AA meetings and the real work in the real world with a real live sponsor.

Just my thoughts Dan, perhaps this sponsor had your best interests at heart and was simply passing on to you, what was passed to him. That WE have a wonderful recovery site here in cyberspace, and that it is imperative that WE live in the real world, in reality, doing the real work that it takes to stay sober...........happy and free

Lest we forget.

Love
Patsy

Anna

Dan,

You're the one who knows yourself and what is best for you. There's no question about that.

Love, Anna

Dan

Music, as I understand the honesty requirement in AA, it's a two way street. Complete and rigorous means just that to me. So following the advice of my former sponsor, when came time to start the fourth step, I set out in a way that transformed me forever. A complete honest self examination of the good and the not so good, and of the events that unfolded in my life of active addiction. He was with me at every turn of a new page, at every attempt to skip a painful episode. This man knows what will be revealed in my fifth. So I'm frankly puzzled by you and Niner this morning. I have valued this man's friendship and honesty from the start. Nothing between us was left to chance or innuendo. If we were pissed off at eachother, we were immediate and absolute about it. I chose my sponsor well. We came to a crossroads of sorts. Simple as that.

Dan

Patsy, thanks for your post.
You will understand I hope that when I say I wanted to cut back on my writing, it didn't imply cutting back on the work of recovery. I fully understand what you are saying, especially about making a choice to remain sick, but it simply is not the case so far. And again, I see in a lot of the posts in this thread a concern about online support vis a vis f2f meetings. I do both AA and NA meetings daily. I have the good fortune of being able to attend a f2f meeting everyday. I have a home group in both fellowships. I still don't know intellectually what came to pass between my sponsor and I. But viscerally, I am at so much peace with our decision that it's a done deal so to speak. We looked in eachother's eyes and simply said "It's time...".

By the way Music, I have read your post again. And I'd like to ask you a question if I may. You state that you don't come online to get sober or stay sober. Pretty self evident stuff, to me at least. But I wonder what you mean by entertainment . This pigeon would like to know...

mackat

hi all
chime in here w/ my ESH,,,this deal is all about humans, being humans, helping other humans.
I have had a full range of sponsors- those who relapsed, one who , while married, made a pass at my SO, the guy who had incredibly bad domestic scene, the man who insisted on personalities over program: but each of these guys gave me something of value to take with me and to pass on to my sponsees.
And i remember that this is a two way street.
One of my sponsors , a real good step work guy who taught me so much, could not see the value in all the inner child stuff i wanted to do as well- he wanted nothing to do with all that 'emotional huggy stuff' as he put it. A few years later, he spoke at my birthday meeting. Said i had opened up a door for him that he would never have opened by himself. spoke movingly of realizing his own 'emotional huggy stuff'...BTW, his sponsor is now calling himself my sponsee- and you can guess the stuff we're working on...
and i have dallied too long here- time to go out and do life!
mackat

spring comes and the grass grows all by itself

Don W

Hi Dan, I understand it might have been a difficult decision, but I think you made it for the correct reasons. Not everything works all the time. You and your x-sponsor will be better off. The chance of a large resentment could have chanded you focus on your recovery. You also handled it correctly. There is no need to be mean. After all, we are all sick, and have different views of recovery. Keep up the good work. Don W