Goodbye and thank you Mr. Sponsor.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
I've been fired as a sponsor. The poor guy was squirming with teh decision. He was so afraid of hurting my feelings, I swear he was suffering. I told him "God bless you! if you can have your needs met better, then please know that I'm grateful to have been a part of your recovery, and I want whats best for you. I'm comfortable enough in my own skin that I'll sleep just fine tonight as long as I know your as dedicated to staying clean and working the steps as you seem."
I get a thrill at meetings when I hear this guy share. He's engrossed in the literature, and does evrything he can to carry the message and help the newcomer. And every once in a while, I hear something that I tried to pass on to him. Thats what really matters.
The kewlest part about my sponsor is that we've been friends long enough for him to really know me. He can call me on my ******** and we both know that I have to be responsible for my own decisions. He doesn't tell me what I should or shouldn't do. He offers an ear and helps me by asking me questions that open up alternatives to my single track thought patterns. Then no matter what the outcome he loves me unconditionally. Theres been a time or two where he couldn't resist a little "I thought maybe or remember what we talked about? were you really paying attention ?" All in all though, I want the spiritual things he has... love and joy, and a desire to learn a little more every day.
I get a thrill at meetings when I hear this guy share. He's engrossed in the literature, and does evrything he can to carry the message and help the newcomer. And every once in a while, I hear something that I tried to pass on to him. Thats what really matters.
The kewlest part about my sponsor is that we've been friends long enough for him to really know me. He can call me on my ******** and we both know that I have to be responsible for my own decisions. He doesn't tell me what I should or shouldn't do. He offers an ear and helps me by asking me questions that open up alternatives to my single track thought patterns. Then no matter what the outcome he loves me unconditionally. Theres been a time or two where he couldn't resist a little "I thought maybe or remember what we talked about? were you really paying attention ?" All in all though, I want the spiritual things he has... love and joy, and a desire to learn a little more every day.
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
Dan has asked us to share our ESH about Step Five.
We hold Step meetings in my home town so other people can get a chance to hear how other members worked a particular Step.
My sponsor is NOT THE SOLE PROVIDER OF FEEDBACK ON HOW THE STEPS ARE WORKED.
Neither am I expected to rely entirely on the 12 x 12 to be my guide.
Dan has shown interest in hearing about our own experiences with Step Five and I think those of us who have officially worked this Step may have something to offer.
The first time I worked Step Five I was a nervous wreck.I had trouble falling asleep the night before the morning I was to work this Step with my sponsor.
I was afraid that the man whom I had grown to call my friend and sponsor would judge me and use the information against me when I told him all the things I had done and why I had done them.
There is power in the spoken word and I had to find the courage to keep believing that by saying out loud the exact nature of my wrongs I was finally beginning to free myself of the character defects that had held sway over my life for so long.
I am no better or worse than anyman, and Step Five helped me to remember that.
We hold Step meetings in my home town so other people can get a chance to hear how other members worked a particular Step.
My sponsor is NOT THE SOLE PROVIDER OF FEEDBACK ON HOW THE STEPS ARE WORKED.
Neither am I expected to rely entirely on the 12 x 12 to be my guide.
Dan has shown interest in hearing about our own experiences with Step Five and I think those of us who have officially worked this Step may have something to offer.
The first time I worked Step Five I was a nervous wreck.I had trouble falling asleep the night before the morning I was to work this Step with my sponsor.
I was afraid that the man whom I had grown to call my friend and sponsor would judge me and use the information against me when I told him all the things I had done and why I had done them.
There is power in the spoken word and I had to find the courage to keep believing that by saying out loud the exact nature of my wrongs I was finally beginning to free myself of the character defects that had held sway over my life for so long.
I am no better or worse than anyman, and Step Five helped me to remember that.
Paused
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 175
Hi
Originally Posted by Ninerfan
Well, look who showed up? A little controversy gets started and Steve is right on it. Very predictable Steve. To answer you, I will not back off a thing unless I choose to. Dan is a big boy and can handle this. There is nothing wrong with 'arguing' specific points of program. I am fighting nothing and no one. Just what expertise do you bring to the table Steve? Dont answer that, we already know. Answer this, have you ever worked the steps or had a sponsor? You talk an awful lot about how cool the steps are but have you actually worked them? If not, kindly be quiet. And that is the end of that. I will not participate in a verbal contest with you Steve. You dont know what you are talking about.
I have a sponser and His name is Jesus Christ.....I dont need to work the steps anymore...for to me they are like breathing....they arent something I work...they are something I am....steve
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Peter
There is power in the spoken word and I had to find the courage to keep believing that by saying out loud the exact nature of my wrongs I was finally beginning to free myself of the character defects that had held sway over my life for so long.
I am no better or worse than anyman, and Step Five helped me to remember that.
I am no better or worse than anyman, and Step Five helped me to remember that.
Thanks Peter.
Paused
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by DangerousDan
Me2, Niner, I ask, no, I beg.
Take it somewhere else.
Take it somewhere else.
No problem here friend....it wont be an issue......Ive made enough waves...Im just trying to fit in...Im learning...I just went through some major spiritual bondage about 20 years ago and when I feel someone isnt giving someone room ..I get a little touchy...my apologies to you both....I think I do much better as an encourager and confidant ....it will be forgotten and not returned to....steve
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Thanks Steve.
There's room in this thread for great discovery for everyone. If we can all remain individuals in the service of the community, we all win.
Otherwise, our presence here is a farce of the highest proportions.
There's room in this thread for great discovery for everyone. If we can all remain individuals in the service of the community, we all win.
Otherwise, our presence here is a farce of the highest proportions.
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
Yeah, Step 5 is not just the reading of step 4. I have shared my step 5 with a sponsor when I did step 5, like you Dan my date is only of mere surrender, I've been clean a couple of times, I share my good and not so good and hope and fears, and I got the same in return. Hell some even do thier 5 th step together, its an indavidual thing, what you are comfortable with. By the experience strength and hope of someone else that had gone through this before myself encouraged me to move on, and I have. I'm in the proccess of writing step 4 again and will be sharing my step 5 again, most of mine is on Recovery and relapse.
Paused
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by DangerousDan
Thanks Steve.
There's room in this thread for great discovery for everyone. If we can all remain individuals in the service of the community, we all win.
Otherwise, our presence here is a farce of the highest proportions.
There's room in this thread for great discovery for everyone. If we can all remain individuals in the service of the community, we all win.
Otherwise, our presence here is a farce of the highest proportions.
amen bro................steve
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
This feeling of being at one with God and man, this emerging from isolation through the open and honest sharing of our terrible burden of guilt, brings us to a resting place where we may prepare ourselves for the following Steps toward a full and meaningful sobriety.
I've heard many men and women share in meetings how the fifth brought them a sense of liberation. I've seen it in their faces and in their actions. So my question to all of you who cared to reply to this thread previously is this: How could it possibly matter if my sponsor or not hears what I have to say? As long as this person and I have a relationship of trust, and that both our hearts are touched by our HP's, isn't the result inevitable?
This pigeon would like to know what you think!
Extremity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
It is important to remember that the word 'sponsor' is not in the first 164 pages of the "Big Book".
It has aslo been my experience that people often balk at the Fourth Step by sudden needs of changing sponsors, meetings or even doing 'geographics'.
Since taking these vital Steps cannot be done perfectly, we have to just try to do our best with whoever we can at the time. Trust in that God of your understanding to take your will and your life through them.
IMO: The only wrong way to take these next two steps is to not take them at all.
Some quotes from the "Big Book" (Note the highlights!):
It has aslo been my experience that people often balk at the Fourth Step by sudden needs of changing sponsors, meetings or even doing 'geographics'.
Since taking these vital Steps cannot be done perfectly, we have to just try to do our best with whoever we can at the time. Trust in that God of your understanding to take your will and your life through them.
IMO: The only wrong way to take these next two steps is to not take them at all.
Some quotes from the "Big Book" (Note the highlights!):
In actual practice, we usually find a solitary self-appraisal insufficient. Many of us thought it necessary to go much further.
But they had not learned enough of humility, fearlessness and honesty, in the sense we find it necessary, until they told someone else all their life story.
Psychologists are inclined to agree with us. We have spent thousands of dollars for examinations. We know but few instances where we have given these doctors a fair break. We have seldom told them the whole truth nor have we followed their advice. Unwilling to be honest with these sympathetic men, we were honest with no one else.
We must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world. Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step.
If we cannot or would rather not do this, we search our acquaintance for a close-mouthed, understanding friend. Perhaps our doctor or psychologist will be the person. It may be one of our own family, but we cannot disclose anything to our wives or our parents which will hurt them and make them unhappy.
Such parts of our story we tell to someone who will understand, yet be unaffected.
Notwithstanding the great necessity for discussing ourselves with someone, it may be one is so situated that there is no suitable person available. If that is so, this step may be postponed, only, however, if we hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through with it at the first opportunity. We say this because we are very anxious that we talk to the right person. It is important that he be able to keep a confidence; that he fully understand and approve what we are driving at; that he will not try to change our plan. But we must not use this as a mere excuse to postpone.
But they had not learned enough of humility, fearlessness and honesty, in the sense we find it necessary, until they told someone else all their life story.
Psychologists are inclined to agree with us. We have spent thousands of dollars for examinations. We know but few instances where we have given these doctors a fair break. We have seldom told them the whole truth nor have we followed their advice. Unwilling to be honest with these sympathetic men, we were honest with no one else.
We must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world. Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step.
If we cannot or would rather not do this, we search our acquaintance for a close-mouthed, understanding friend. Perhaps our doctor or psychologist will be the person. It may be one of our own family, but we cannot disclose anything to our wives or our parents which will hurt them and make them unhappy.
Such parts of our story we tell to someone who will understand, yet be unaffected.
Notwithstanding the great necessity for discussing ourselves with someone, it may be one is so situated that there is no suitable person available. If that is so, this step may be postponed, only, however, if we hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through with it at the first opportunity. We say this because we are very anxious that we talk to the right person. It is important that he be able to keep a confidence; that he fully understand and approve what we are driving at; that he will not try to change our plan. But we must not use this as a mere excuse to postpone.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: California
Posts: 233
Dan, I dont know that anything is inevitable except we all die. My main concern with your actions re your sponsor is that you may have fired him because you are afraid of telling him your fourth step. If that is the case then you are not pouring a solid foundation of sobriety. This is not an indictment of what you are doing, only a headsup. If on the other hand, your sponsor was not the right person to reveal yourself to and you have found someone else qualified(fifth step 12 X 12) to hear you 'confession' then you are working within the spirit of step five as I understand it.
I think the main thing, for me, was to do the fifth with someone who I had to see afterwards. That way I couldn't ******** myself or you as easily. That way I would be assured that my housecleaning was not theoretcal. If I left something out of my fifth step because I was afraid to reveal it, then my sponsor would be a constant reminkder that I had unfinished business. The fifth step talks about developing the quality of humility and nothing does that better than talking to my sponsor abut those things that I would rather not. But having sucked it up once to do the fifth step does that mean that I will be humble from then on? Some might think yes. I don't. I need to rub elbows with people who 'know' me. One dose of humility does not innoculate me from my ego. It is important to me to know that there is at least one person in this world who I have frequent contact with who knows everything abut me and still accepts me. It also forces me to stay as honest as I can. That gives me permission to be me, the new humbler me with everyone. It is also a reminder of what I can turn back into if I dont practice the principles. Which happens with regularity unfortuneatly.
FEAR= Face Everything And Recover
or
FEAR= **** Everything And Run
I think the main thing, for me, was to do the fifth with someone who I had to see afterwards. That way I couldn't ******** myself or you as easily. That way I would be assured that my housecleaning was not theoretcal. If I left something out of my fifth step because I was afraid to reveal it, then my sponsor would be a constant reminkder that I had unfinished business. The fifth step talks about developing the quality of humility and nothing does that better than talking to my sponsor abut those things that I would rather not. But having sucked it up once to do the fifth step does that mean that I will be humble from then on? Some might think yes. I don't. I need to rub elbows with people who 'know' me. One dose of humility does not innoculate me from my ego. It is important to me to know that there is at least one person in this world who I have frequent contact with who knows everything abut me and still accepts me. It also forces me to stay as honest as I can. That gives me permission to be me, the new humbler me with everyone. It is also a reminder of what I can turn back into if I dont practice the principles. Which happens with regularity unfortuneatly.
FEAR= Face Everything And Recover
or
FEAR= **** Everything And Run
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Ninerfan
...snip. I think the main thing, for me, was to do the fifth with someone who I had to see afterwards. That way I couldn't ******** myself or you as easily.snip...
Turns out we need eachother he says.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: California
Posts: 233
Dan I can read just fine thank you. You said that you fired your sponsor when it came to doing the fifth step. You gave a vague reason for the firing and some of us felt it was someting else we have seen before. That is the impression you have left me with. If the reasons behind the firing were other than the fifth step then you should have said so at the time. For instance, I dont think you said that your ex sponsor had seen your fourth step. If that is the case then you have in effect already done the fifth step. Maybe not formally but in practice.
FYI it is very common for people to balk at the fourth and fifth steps. It is very common for people to do any number of things to postpone taking those steps. If this doesn't apply to you then dont worry about it. Someone will need to read these posts.
What I don't understand is if he saw your fourth step and you were totally cool about that, then why fire him? Seems like you guys get along so whats up? If nothing is up then forget it Dan. It is time to move past this.
FYI it is very common for people to balk at the fourth and fifth steps. It is very common for people to do any number of things to postpone taking those steps. If this doesn't apply to you then dont worry about it. Someone will need to read these posts.
What I don't understand is if he saw your fourth step and you were totally cool about that, then why fire him? Seems like you guys get along so whats up? If nothing is up then forget it Dan. It is time to move past this.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Ninerfan
For instance, I dont think you said that your ex sponsor had seen your fourth step. If that is the case then you have in effect already done the fifth step. Maybe not formally but in practice.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...1&postcount=17
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Dan;
"Turns out we need each other he says."
From my understanding, that is exactly as it should be.
Glad you found someone. I wish you lots of luck, sending prayers and love your way....
Shalom!
"Turns out we need each other he says."
From my understanding, that is exactly as it should be.
Glad you found someone. I wish you lots of luck, sending prayers and love your way....
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
the greatest gift of the 5th step is the awareness of "exact nature" Doing the 5th not only develops a deeper sense of trust with another human being in the site of our higher power, but at the same time shows us the singularity of the contributing pattern of destruction, the careless squandering of our faith.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florham Park, nj
Posts: 85
Hey Music,,,great post!
Question, I am not an AA attendee so why all the reference to step 5 withough explainin what the heck it is? And question...what happens when the 12 steps (whatever they are) are done? You become a sponsor and work them the rest of your life?
I personally believe God is in control. It is to Him we answer too. People, sponsors may help..12 step programs but just like all things in life..even the best of us let us down...IMHO its not the end to Dan's sobriety to not jive with this man he calls his sponsor. Like someone said...its what he sought not what he found. The finding is personal and what I believe between us and God. Noone else.
Otherwise everyone that has a bad relationship will fall.
That probably made no sense, but did to me. lol
Please define the steps ..for us non aa people. thanks.
Question, I am not an AA attendee so why all the reference to step 5 withough explainin what the heck it is? And question...what happens when the 12 steps (whatever they are) are done? You become a sponsor and work them the rest of your life?
I personally believe God is in control. It is to Him we answer too. People, sponsors may help..12 step programs but just like all things in life..even the best of us let us down...IMHO its not the end to Dan's sobriety to not jive with this man he calls his sponsor. Like someone said...its what he sought not what he found. The finding is personal and what I believe between us and God. Noone else.
Otherwise everyone that has a bad relationship will fall.
That probably made no sense, but did to me. lol
Please define the steps ..for us non aa people. thanks.
Hopefully Healing Up
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sober, Forever
Posts: 511
Dan The Man
Dan,
It does not sound like he was having a doubt with you or your recovery. It sounds to me like he was having a problem with his own and doubting the steps. Been there and done that, it is called rationalizing your disease. You know what I am talking about, I am normal, hold a job and take care of my family and am a nice person so........yada yada until you pick it up. I think you made a good decision and keep with the steps, they work as does this site. Hang in there man. As a very wise person said to me once....
I stand in awe of your brass.....knuckles.
Peace and you know I am there for and with ya man,
Roy
It does not sound like he was having a doubt with you or your recovery. It sounds to me like he was having a problem with his own and doubting the steps. Been there and done that, it is called rationalizing your disease. You know what I am talking about, I am normal, hold a job and take care of my family and am a nice person so........yada yada until you pick it up. I think you made a good decision and keep with the steps, they work as does this site. Hang in there man. As a very wise person said to me once....
I stand in awe of your brass.....knuckles.
Peace and you know I am there for and with ya man,
Roy
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