BabyJane

Thank you all for your replies and I'm sorry if this was in the wrong area of the forums. I realize I used some pretty impassioned words and maybe came off as judgemental or accusatory, which is not what I should have done to express my frustration perhaps... To answer the questions a few people asked; I'm on step 5 and 6 and I am switching up my meetings I just feel like I want to either scream or burst into tears every time I walk in the rooms. The other thing I didn't mention was a few situations that occurred involving myself and other friends as newcomers (i.e. predatory behavior) and also my dismay at being told more than once that I was not "sober" because I take depression medication. Without the medication I am basically suicidally depressed and / or can't function normally at ALL. I had depression long before I was an alcoholic or anorexic so obviously it's at the root of the problem for me. Then there's the whole BBA / Pacific Group thing and people telling me "that's not AA" or "only these meetings are real meetings" - COME ON! So confusing! Anyway, like I said... With a lump in my throat I will do my 2 per week and I'm trying so hard not to be closed off or carry animosity. It's hard. I said I would do my steps to the end and I will but I just want to get out so badly lately. I feel REALLY unsafe and uncomfortable at some of the meetings. Final note : I will look into SMART and other things more in depth. I think that's a good idea too! Appreciate it very much everyone.

2granddaughters

What does your sponsor say about how you feel?

Fandy

Please don't listen to anyone who will try to tell you that you are "not sober" because you take doctor prescribed meds for your depression.

That is ridicules..You do NOT need to justify your medication to anyone. That is between you and your physician.

tomsteve

welp, if taking anti depressants means i aint sober, then i aint sober.
i had a time when i got really screwed up in recovery. i was atten=ding the same meetings for a long time. my sponsr siad to get out to differet meetings and meet ohters in recovery. what a difference just doin that made! there are meetings i will not attend. IMO, there is absolutley no sobriety t them

i am sorry you have run into predators. they are there. i pesonally do my best to caution newcomes about them when they enter the rooms. please do the next sick and suffering alcoholic a huge favor and warn them about them sickos.

bigsombrero

You asked: "honestly have any of you who attend these meetings ever developed serious animosity toward the entire cultish dogmatic approach to the whole thing? "

Yes. I got sick of it and I left, and it did not take long. Scared the wheels off my cart, really. I did not enjoy the spooky cultish-ness of my primary AA group in Chicago at all. And while every "classroom" can be different, the subject matter is going to be the same no matter where you go. As you mentioned, alcoholics tend to skip scheduled meetings and appointments, so it fits the bill for an addict to avoid meetings. You can either worry about that stigma, or not. I choose not to worry about it. For the record, I last went a few months ago on my birthday - just because I wanted to honor my commitment to sobriety. I plan to go to an AA meeting on my birthday every year.

And hey - taking a break doesn't mean you can't go back! I always know when and where I can find a meeting - heck, the 2nd day here in Guatemala I found a sober ally and he told me where the meetings are. I like knowing where and when these activities take place, it feels like a security blanket for me.

Zencat

Varriety in recovery methods have been the spice of life sans alcohol/drugs for me.
Programs like:I no longer go to AA meeting regularly, its more of a once and a good wile thing now. AA meetings do vary, there even atheist/agnostic meetings. The meetings I do attend are very open minded with very few AA zealots.

I also take depression meds. I provide that information on a "need to know" basis. There is no need for my fellows in recovery to know my psychiatric history.

Nattythreads

BJ you are so totally in the wrong meets! Get out of there immediately! If you've been around the rooms long enough, that sort of behavior does occur unfortunately. I've seen it all and worse here in LA - especially the whole meds thing which is a nonsense, tbh. It's none of their business.

But don't tar the vast majority of decent people who are just trying to stay clean with the actions of a few arseholes. You come across them in all walks of life. My sponsor always says "God gave you legs so use them" if ever a meeting bothers me, people bother me or I just can't be bothered that day.

Don't stand on ceremony, just get up and leave. It's your recovery, not anyone elses.

Elisabeth888

I am sorry it is that way for you. People can be bafoons.

AA is not the only way, for sure. I hate that your group has soured it for you though. I ignore the set that makes their own "AA Rules" and plays doctor.

Grungehead

I agree that there is no "right way" to stay sober AS LONG AS IT WORKS. All I can share is my experience.

1990: Sober for 5 years attending AA. Stopped going to meetings and went back out 2 years later for a year.

1997: Sober for 5 years attending AA. Stopped going to meetings and went back out 2 years later for 7 years.

Looking back at my history something kept happening between years 5 and 7 that led me to start drinking again. In both cases I stopped going to meetings. I'm sure it can get more complicated for others but in my case it is pretty clear cut lol.

Grungehead

To follow up, I think one of the most important things I get from going to meetings, especially ones where I know the people well, is that they have great BS detectors and are willing to let me know when it has gone off. Left on my own I am free to BS myself and others and that is a slippery slope.

Mirage74

There are alot of things I'm not crazy about with AA. For one, I'm not crazy about the idea of working the steps. I've read some of the big book and it a lot of it seems old-fashioned and it frustrates me when people demand that you follow it to a T. But, it has helped a lot of people, so I'm not completely giving up on it. It's really the only thing in my hometown. I guess you have to take the good with the bad. I've heard you should seek out people who you want to be like in the program.

As for AVRT, I've read the website and found some of it useful, especially when my cravings kick in. But simply telling my beast to be quiet somehow leaves me lacking.

Anyway, I guess you have to try different things and figure you what works best for you. I don't think there's one end-all-be-all solution for everyone.

Nattythreads

I never really found I had to seek them out. It's just like any other walk of life where you naturally gravitate towards kindred spirits.

Fallow

Glad you posted this. I feel the same way totally. I have all but left AA at this point. They say 'if you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it you are ready to take certain steps'. Ok.

I too promised myself I would complete the steps this time. Still working on it but I have decided I do not want what most in AA have. They always have an answer for everything. I do not want to be a know it all. The medication thing is a perfect example.

I do not want to spend much more time sitting in meetings. Hearing the same old same old. Sifting through another drunkalogue. Listening to the same people say the same thing for the 500th time. I got the message already.

The steps establish a relationship with God, self, and others. I finished steps 1-3 and I have a relationship with my HP that I find amazing. I am doing 4-5 Frankenstein style because I fired my sponsor. He basically said what yours said, that if I did not make a certain meeting he wanted me to go to that I would probably relapse. I do not need that type of 'encouragement' in my life. Good riddance!

Step 6-7 is pretty simple and I can do on my own. 8-9 are important to me. I have a few amends especially to my wife that I will definitely be making. I am willing.

10 and 11 I already practice daily. 12 is up in the air. I will give back however I can. It is tough to navigate through people who want to tell you what your quality of sobriety is though... Do I need to do all this to be sober? No. I actually enjoy the self searching and the leveling of my pride though. I take what I want.

Anyway just know that you are not alone. You can forge your own path

I heard someone say at a meeting that sometimes they stayed sober out of spite. It cracks me up and I use it sometimes. In spite of AA and a lot of the BS that goes on in meetings I stay sober. I am down to a meeting every other week and love just living life sober. Spending that time I used to be in meetings with family.

I still listen to tons of AA speaker tapes on XA. I love those! And they are drama free.

AA has been a great help for me and I am grateful they are there but I am on my own journey.

Threshold

baby, what everyone said above and I'll share my own experience as well.

I like to think I'm pretty intelligent, but high IQ aside, the language of the BB...constantly doing the translation in my head to something that didn't set my teeth on edge got to be exhausting.

Same with AA meetings. I kept wanting to scream. I KNOW that it's archaic language and in the time and culture...etc etc. but still. I wanted to scream. I found NA much more palatable because the langage wasn't a constant grate.

I also found NA much more accepting of people being on meds. Not everyone, but there was much less static in that regard.

If you can attend a BB or 12 step study meeting as opposed to a sit and bitch meeting, you would hear more of the program and less of people's personal interpretation and bias of the program. That might help. Same with NA or any other 12 step group, if there is a study meeting the tone is going to be very different than most discussion meetings.

I use many alternate 12 step literature and versions that I find online. I have found this to be extrememly helpful because I am not constantly arguing in my head with the language and wording. I am moving forward with the steps, using a variety of resources and discussion questions etc to keep me going.

I truly feel the steps are the way through for me. And this approach helps me use the principles that the steps point out (but are NOT exclusive to 12 step or any other spiritual path or philosophical wisdom, it's age old stuff repackaged) without wading through stuff I find mind numbing.

I have only gotten and stayed sober for any length of time since I stopped going to meetings, found 12 step versions and programs that did not make me cringe and really got down to my step work.

I found it SO hard to stick with the principles not personalities thing amid the drama and dogma of the small town meetings I was attending. That was MY issue, not their issue. Lots of people got and stayed clean using that resource, but in the end it's MY recovery I have to put first, not theirs. If the meetings are working for them, then there is no reason for them to do a darned this different. If the meetings weren't working for me, then it's up to me to find resources that do.

No judgment or condemnation actual or implied. It's that simple. I found 12 steps I could work and I work the heck out of them. SR is the resource I use most often to discuss recovery with others who are in recovery. If AA worked for everyone there wouldn't be so many other 12 step versions and groups and so many other recovery programs out there.

AA is awesome, so are many other programs. Keep up the good work.

sugarbear1

I work one step at a time. It works better that way.

There are other options available, why not try rational recovery or one of those other methods for staying stopped?

Sally1009

Maybe it's time to check out other meetings? Not all meetings are the same. I stay away from toxic meetings with a majority of people who are MICA, know it all and wars story. Each day of the week, I have a meeting I can go to which is positive and solution oriented. I work the steps but I also use AVRT.
As a rule of thumb, I stay away from fanatics and hang out with people who are content and well adjusted not people whose take on life is that they are broken pieces of garbage who cannot function or think normally in society unless they run everything through others.
You might want to check out this paper http://dbhids.org/assets/Forms--Docu...OfRecovery.pdf
__________________
Thank you so much for the link to this essay. It's brilliant, and has reassured me a lot. S

fantail

Sorry for a silly question but I've been reading this with interest... what does MICA stand for?

bemyself

Fantail, glad you asked that question - I was trying to work it out too :-)

LadyinBC

I also go to SMART and WFS meetings as well as AA.

One of the problems I had with AA was the word "powerless". The way I try to look at it now is that I have the power to not take that first drink. Once I take that first drink I know I'm not going to stop and that is where I use the word "powerless" . I think it can be all in how you look at it. That is what works for me.

I like WFS because I'm a woman and the program teaches us to empower ourselves and to not be defined by our addiction.

I like SMART because it makes me realize that when it comes to taking that first drink, I do have control and I can do it. I'm am the one who is responsible for my behaviour and my choices. No one can force me to drink, except me.

I go to AA because it keeps me humble and yes I am an alcoholic and will always be one. There are some things I can control and somethings I can't. AA helps me cope with the things I can't control.

I take what I need from each program and leave the rest behind.

The important thing is finding something that works for you and what makes you feel positive.

Newem

I don't go to AA. My help from my psychiatrist and husband is working for me at this point. When I looked at the 12 steps I initially recoiled and thought that's crazy religious bs but when you take the God part out, it makes sense. An article by atheist guide to AA put it into perspective for me.
For the non religous those twelve steps on the wall and in the book represent four things in essence:

A recognition that you haven’t been able get loaded in anything approaching moderation and without consistently creating havoc.
A surrender to the fact that this is a kind of law of nature for you, and that fighting it has been insane.
A willingness to let reality be the guide of your actions henceforth in this and in everything else.
A commitment to try and stop hurting yourself or others, and to help where you can.

This helped and resonated with me completely. The article was written by Frank. M