Alcoholic Interrupted
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by Sapling 
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplaced the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.
This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.
BB first edition
True alcoholic. Behaviours vary. Not a comprehensive picture. Simply enough offered as a description to roughly identify the alcoholic.
Plain and simple. A description.
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I believe that the thing that will keep me sober long term is the unexpected joy of it.
I quit smoking cigarettes 17 years ago and the experience gave me some of the tools to physically quit alcohol once I set my mind to it. I was a badass smoker and it was a part of my personality I guess. Quitting was unimaginable but inevitable. I tried unsuccessfully a few times before I finally got that monkey off my back. I was 29 and wanted to quit before 30. It was horrible for two weeks then it got progressively better. Like alcohol, the physical side of it is instantly great in that you have stopped ingesting a poison. Unfortunately I didn't get to enjoy it that much because I was in the agony of nicotine withdrawal. After a year I finally felt truly free. I won't lie to you, I would still love a smoke right now but I won't. I will never mess with nicotine again. It has no place in my life. I feel sorry for people who smoke.
I quit drinking five months ago, which makes me pretty new but I am at the point where I feel comfortable in my own skin and the idea that I will never take another drink in my life. I don't miss it and I don't regret it. I accept my drinking life as evidence that I should not drink anything anymore. Life has little problems but none of them will be solved or eased by drinking and they never were. I resolve has been rock solid since day one.
That said, I wasn't ready for the emotional chaos in my mind when I first quit. I felt very fragile and disoriented. It was uncomfortable but I was able to lean on my family and routine to get through it with all my marbles. I am blessed with great friends and a great life and so gratitude was another easy tool at hand. Things have really settled down in my mind and I am starting to really appreciate my sober life. I feel joy on a new level and I can't imagine going back.
I quit smoking cigarettes 17 years ago and the experience gave me some of the tools to physically quit alcohol once I set my mind to it. I was a badass smoker and it was a part of my personality I guess. Quitting was unimaginable but inevitable. I tried unsuccessfully a few times before I finally got that monkey off my back. I was 29 and wanted to quit before 30. It was horrible for two weeks then it got progressively better. Like alcohol, the physical side of it is instantly great in that you have stopped ingesting a poison. Unfortunately I didn't get to enjoy it that much because I was in the agony of nicotine withdrawal. After a year I finally felt truly free. I won't lie to you, I would still love a smoke right now but I won't. I will never mess with nicotine again. It has no place in my life. I feel sorry for people who smoke.
I quit drinking five months ago, which makes me pretty new but I am at the point where I feel comfortable in my own skin and the idea that I will never take another drink in my life. I don't miss it and I don't regret it. I accept my drinking life as evidence that I should not drink anything anymore. Life has little problems but none of them will be solved or eased by drinking and they never were. I resolve has been rock solid since day one.
That said, I wasn't ready for the emotional chaos in my mind when I first quit. I felt very fragile and disoriented. It was uncomfortable but I was able to lean on my family and routine to get through it with all my marbles. I am blessed with great friends and a great life and so gratitude was another easy tool at hand. Things have really settled down in my mind and I am starting to really appreciate my sober life. I feel joy on a new level and I can't imagine going back.
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
I really think its worth being aware of the last paragraph of what is being quoted from the BB. Awesome you included the whole deal, Sapling, in your quote.
True alcoholic. Behaviours vary. Not a comprehensive picture. Simply enough offered as a description to roughly identify the alcoholic.
Plain and simple. A description.
True alcoholic. Behaviours vary. Not a comprehensive picture. Simply enough offered as a description to roughly identify the alcoholic.
Plain and simple. A description.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
However, I can potentially choose to damage my psyche in ways other then what alcoholism has already wrought, and in that additional damage, my alcoholism can become empowered once again. There would be dire conseqences for me of course because i would have the new damage and as well I would have the original alcoholism. In fact, because of the new damage, which I didn't have when I quit, I would be worse off then when I was originally drinking.
Not good.
This understanding of not again fundamentally damaging my psyche in new additional ways is what is really definitively meant as I have come to understand AA recovery by keeping myself healthy and maintaining my spiritual condition. I know this is not a contemporary understanding, but there it is nonetheless.
To continue:
Only my addiction struggles with alcoholism would be worse off, is my ideal meaning. My alcoholism coming back empowered is not a suerty that I would nescesarily run off and get drunk. I would have to surrender again and start from there and all this could be done with out actually drinking alcohol.
I did not mean to suggest that I am toasted if my alcoholism for whatever reason becomes empowered again. There exists a world of preventative options available when being responsible to re-awakened alcoholic minded organised ideations of getting a drunk on.
What worked before will of course work again... oh, yeah.
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However the more general set includes a group that is not included in the smaller set - that of those alcoholics who are truely mentally ill.
Now back in '72 I saw a shrink for a while, whom I was not real honest with when it came to my drinking. I was eventually diagnosed and manic depressive/schizophrenic and was put on some medication that was suppose to help. I chose not to use it and continued to 'self medicate' with alcohol for another 8 1/2 years.
So now then, here I was, 9 years sober, and wanting to find a Doctor that would lock me up in a padded cell. I was aready bouncing off of the walls and in my tortured mind I figured padded walls would be an improvement.
Well this psych Doctor was really really good. She me get a full and complete physical and did a bunch of blood work. After all the reports came back to her she had a better idea what was and was not going on with me. I was NOT chemically out of balance so my condition was not physical but was very definitely 'mental', yep I was mentally ill.
Within a few months I had a diagnosis and it was a matter of finding what particular medications that would work. I was Bi Polar, with my depression side ruling me more than my manic side. It took almost 5 years to find the correct combination that would work for me. She also taught me som 'procedures/tricks' I could do to make the lows and the highs not quite so low and high, so I wasn't on that very bumpy Rollar Coaster ride any more. Yes, for sure, a person that suffers from being Bi Polar does process life differently than a person who does not suffer from Bi Polar We think differently still can come to the same conclusion that someone who is not Bi Polar does, but we get there on a totally different train track than one who is not Bi Polar.
So I had a 'new' bag of 'tricks' to learn, rofl. I actually added a whole bunch of 'new' tools to my tool box. for living life sober and clean. I can tell you that by 14 years or so sober I was much happier, the most serene, and the most peaceful, I had ever been in my life. I was living the 12 steps and I was coping pretty well with my Bi Polar, and life has been great in the long run. Yep in June, June 7th to be exact I will celebrate 31 years of continuouos sobriety.
Everybody's bottom is different. The 'bottom' comes when we finally stop digging the hole deeper, put down the shovel, and ask for help. It is true, what they told me when I first walked through the doors of AA.
"Stick with us and you can be anything you want to or ever wanted to be."
At 43 years of age, I finished college, got my degree in nursing, took the licensing exam and became licensed as a Registered Nurse. I could and can still be whatever I want to be, AS LONG AS I DON'T PICK UP THAT FIRST DRINK.
I am retired now and partially disabled, but my 'condition' does not stop me from working with my dogs and other dogs, of working with 4her's and their 'problem horses, of enjoying great times with my daughter, my s-i-l and my beautiful grand children (ages 6 to 14) lol.
My life is good, actually I have a life, thanks to my early recovery years in AA. It says in the big book (paraphrasing here, lmao) that we know only a little and that 'more will be revealed'. Well with my ongoing seeking and searching, that is very true.
Each of us has to find 'our own way' in recovery and when reach that point, alcohol just does NOT matter anymore and we intuitively KNOW that we will NOT DRINK again. For this alcoholic, alcohol is just NOT AN OPTION.
Sorry for the LONG ramble, rofl but sometimes I just can't seem to get to the 'point' of what I want to say.
J M H O
Hope the above can help someone. There is no shame in finding out that we do have some 'mental' problems after the alcohol is gone. And I/we find a way to enjoy life, both the ups and the downs. Something I/we could never do, all those years of numbing ourselves with alcohol.
So, ENJOY, your life today!!!! Live each day to the fullest, but remember to 'stop and smell the roses' also.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Originally Posted by BullDog777
The Big book often refers to the alcoholic that has "recovered. However, alot of AA's really do not like to ever refer to themselves as such. For most of them, they're still in the "recovery" state. Often, arguments errupt as a result because alot of them don't believe anyone is ever truely "recovered". Do I think it's possible? YES. i do. I think it's rare though... So, imo, after more than 2 decades, i do think it's possible to completely recover.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by laurie6781
At 43 years of age, I finished college, got my degree in nursing, took the licensing exam and became licensed as a Registered Nurse. I could and can still be whatever I want to be, AS LONG AS I DON'T PICK UP THAT FIRST DRINK.
I am retired now and partially disabled, but my 'condition' does not stop me from working with my dogs and other dogs, of working with 4her's and their 'problem horses, of enjoying great times with my daughter, my s-i-l and my beautiful grand children (ages 6 to 14) lol.
My life is good, actually I have a life, thanks to my early recovery years in AA. It says in the big book (paraphrasing here, lmao) that we know only a little and that 'more will be revealed'. Well with my ongoing seeking and searching, that is very true.
Each of us has to find 'our own way' in recovery and when reach that point, alcohol just does NOT matter anymore and we intuitively KNOW that we will NOT DRINK again. For this alcoholic, alcohol is just NOT AN OPTION.
I am retired now and partially disabled, but my 'condition' does not stop me from working with my dogs and other dogs, of working with 4her's and their 'problem horses, of enjoying great times with my daughter, my s-i-l and my beautiful grand children (ages 6 to 14) lol.
My life is good, actually I have a life, thanks to my early recovery years in AA. It says in the big book (paraphrasing here, lmao) that we know only a little and that 'more will be revealed'. Well with my ongoing seeking and searching, that is very true.
Each of us has to find 'our own way' in recovery and when reach that point, alcohol just does NOT matter anymore and we intuitively KNOW that we will NOT DRINK again. For this alcoholic, alcohol is just NOT AN OPTION.
How awesome are you?!! Outstanding!! Absolutely a brillant original share! Totally.
Not just the inspirational quoted selections.
Originally Posted by laurie6781
Hope the above can help someone. There is no shame in finding out that we do have some 'mental' problems after the alcohol is gone. And I/we find a way to enjoy life, both the ups and the downs. Something I/we could never do, all those years of numbing ourselves with alcohol.
So, ENJOY, your life today!!!! Live each day to the fullest, but remember to 'stop and smell the roses' also.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
So, ENJOY, your life today!!!! Live each day to the fullest, but remember to 'stop and smell the roses' also.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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is perfectly capable of doing precisely that
I continue to 'learn. I read a lot about all sorts of different subjects. I will soon be 67 years old, but that does not mean that I sit here and vegetate. To me it means I just move slower (no running marathons, lol) So, I continue to grow and change and you know what? It is FUN!!!!!!
I also continue by my own example try to show others how life can be when one is sober. That alcohol does not rule this person any more, and does not have to rule anyone else anymore either.
Again, J M H O
Love and hugs,
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Yes, it is indeed rare, BullDog, but it doesn't have to be, nor does it require more than two decades, either. While many people do hang out in the purgatory of indecision, or 'suspended in an unnatural state', racking up lots of 'sober time' and hoping for the best, this is purely by choice. Each and every single alcoholic 'in recovery', real or otherwise, whether in AA, on recovery forums, or in any of the secular recovery clubs, is perfectly capable of doing precisely that which they say they are not capable of doing: quitting once and forever.
Obvious alternatives exist.
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My post was for someone who after a week is promising all who may read she will never drink again. It's the usual thing to hear when an alcoholic doesn't drink for a time. It's what the posters in this thread have said about themselves. In any collection of alcoholics hearing that sentiment is as common as dirt. Everyone is going to stay sober forever and no one is ever going to drink again and you can count on that, Jack.
Since I was speaking to a person dry a week with no idea of what to rely on to keep her sober longterm other than her willpower, no answers, no real understanding in depth, and no tools for living I wanted to speak in general of the alcoholic condition as an compelling force apart from what the individual decides or wants. Obviously there is a need for an corresponding equal or greater force that answers that, keeping the alcoholic in a state where no matter what they may think on a given day or what they want or what outside forces may come into play against them, they are able to stay sober, a very special state of being to continue for any alcoholic over time.
The post was to outline in an elementary way some of the reasoning behind why emotional balance is important for an alcoholic, without delving into the subject too deeply, and to call to her attention the need for effective answers to allow that to happen and to highlight how unlikely it is for an alcoholic to go longterm without them.
And, like it or not it is rare that an alcoholic remains continually sober for their lifetime. Even those who will assure you of that after a week, or a few years. If someone gets beyond 24 years and it's important to them that I think they have a lock on lifetime sobriety I'll agree with them that they have an excellent shot, that based on their track record to that point they may actually be one of the very few fortunate ones. But, how it plays out it matters only to them and my agreement or skepticism means nothing important either way.
In other words, it shouldn't be of the least importance what people may think or say about how you view your sobriety and what you do to stay sober, and what you believe your chances are now at this point.
So any efforts spent in trying to solicit the agreement of others to join you in your pov regarding any of that is foolish and a waste of everyone's time.
I'm just relieved every alcoholic everywhere that is sober longer than 20 minutes is absolutely and without a doubt sure to never drink again...just ask them. Makes all our neighborhoods safer.
Since I was speaking to a person dry a week with no idea of what to rely on to keep her sober longterm other than her willpower, no answers, no real understanding in depth, and no tools for living I wanted to speak in general of the alcoholic condition as an compelling force apart from what the individual decides or wants. Obviously there is a need for an corresponding equal or greater force that answers that, keeping the alcoholic in a state where no matter what they may think on a given day or what they want or what outside forces may come into play against them, they are able to stay sober, a very special state of being to continue for any alcoholic over time.
The post was to outline in an elementary way some of the reasoning behind why emotional balance is important for an alcoholic, without delving into the subject too deeply, and to call to her attention the need for effective answers to allow that to happen and to highlight how unlikely it is for an alcoholic to go longterm without them.
And, like it or not it is rare that an alcoholic remains continually sober for their lifetime. Even those who will assure you of that after a week, or a few years. If someone gets beyond 24 years and it's important to them that I think they have a lock on lifetime sobriety I'll agree with them that they have an excellent shot, that based on their track record to that point they may actually be one of the very few fortunate ones. But, how it plays out it matters only to them and my agreement or skepticism means nothing important either way.
In other words, it shouldn't be of the least importance what people may think or say about how you view your sobriety and what you do to stay sober, and what you believe your chances are now at this point.
So any efforts spent in trying to solicit the agreement of others to join you in your pov regarding any of that is foolish and a waste of everyone's time.
I'm just relieved every alcoholic everywhere that is sober longer than 20 minutes is absolutely and without a doubt sure to never drink again...just ask them. Makes all our neighborhoods safer.
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Many people do like living with tentative abstinence, because it allows them to avoid doing the obvious, and because it allows them to look good to others, while still retaining a handy excuse if they should ever drink again. Setting a higher standard for oneself has an upside — freedom — but it also has a downside, in that one has more to lose in case of a 'relapse'.
Likewise, tentative abstinence has a downside, in that the problem is never really resolved, but it also has its benefits. People who like those benefits are unlikely to ever do the obvious and knock it off for good, telling everyone and their brother that they are incapable of doing so. Some of us can nevertheless see right through that pregnant lie, however.
Likewise, tentative abstinence has a downside, in that the problem is never really resolved, but it also has its benefits. People who like those benefits are unlikely to ever do the obvious and knock it off for good, telling everyone and their brother that they are incapable of doing so. Some of us can nevertheless see right through that pregnant lie, however.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by langkah
So any efforts spent in trying to solicit the agreement of others to join you in your pov regarding any of that is foolish and a waste of everyone's time.
Well, langkah, if the thread was about what you're stating then yes it would be a waste of time.
I am thinking you're have missed the points which the thread has illuminated. No matter. As always, live and let live.
Nonetheless, I must comment on this:
Originally Posted by langkah
Since I was speaking to a person dry a week with no idea of what to rely on to keep her sober longterm other than her willpower, no answers, no real understanding in depth, and no tools for living I wanted to speak in general of the alcoholic condition as an compelling force apart from what the individual decides or wants. Obviously there is a need for an corresponding equal or greater force that answers that, keeping the alcoholic in a state where no matter what they may think on a given day or what they want or what outside forces may come into play against them, they are able to stay sober, a very special state of being to continue for any alcoholic over time.
Originally Posted by langkah
In other words, it shouldn't be of the least importance what people may think or say about how you view your sobriety and what you do to stay sober, and what you believe your chances are now at this point.
Hypocrisy in bloom comes to mind.
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Wow Robbie, no idea what this series of digs from you are about over the last week +.
You didn't understand the post, I explained what it was about and you're miffed again.
Let whatever has gotten into you go, as I've no interest in arguing with you.
Figure right now is the alltime best point for you to find someone else to bully and belittle.
I'm going to place you on ignore for a while and let you work through whatever your problem with me is, just to keep the peace.
You didn't understand the post, I explained what it was about and you're miffed again.
Let whatever has gotten into you go, as I've no interest in arguing with you.
Figure right now is the alltime best point for you to find someone else to bully and belittle.
I'm going to place you on ignore for a while and let you work through whatever your problem with me is, just to keep the peace.
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I think threads like these work a whole lot better as abstract discussions of ideas than they do as personal debates.
If you have specific grievances with someone and you simply can't let it go, it really is best to use the PM feature.
D
If you have specific grievances with someone and you simply can't let it go, it really is best to use the PM feature.
D
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by langkah
I'm going to place you on ignore for a while and let you work through whatever your problem with me is, just to keep the peace.
Bully?
No brother. I don't see me bullying you, okay? I do see me holding you responsibile for talking your talk, is all. End of story.
Good to hear after awhile you'll take me off ignore. Later, langkah.
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When I say that I will never drink again, and someone who doesn't know me expresses skepticism, I suspect it says more about their state of mind than it does about mine. I choose to believe in myself and others. I may be proven wrong, but in the meantime, my world is a much happier place to live. Cynicism and judgment are not traits I look for in role models, both inside and outside of recovery.
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Originally Posted by Sapling
I have to go with the definition in the book of a real alcoholic Charon...Because when I read this...It was pretty close to me....
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplaced the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.
BB first edition
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplaced the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.
BB first edition
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Originally Posted by Sapling
I just want to make clear that the way my sponsor told me to work this program...If it's AA...It's in the BB...I have found every answer to every question I've had in that book...I don't know how they did that...I don't want to know...All I know is that it works...
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