Alcoholic Interrupted
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Alcoholic Interrupted
I started this thread to have a decent and honest dialogue examining 'being alcoholic' without hijacking Noble's excellent thread. Let's please contribute to this thread, if you choose, by working the ideas shared here, and not working over the guy or gal of the respective share. 
I think the topic is important -- being sober for good and all. The share by Langkah I've quoted interests me because I see built in failure or at least a requirement to struggle with alcoholic thinking as presented in his share. Seems to me a tough hard way to keep sober without any added benefits for the added efforts, imo. I think it's not real helpful for newcomers to the recovery scene but would (possibly) be helpful for old hands or experienced alcoholics who have a history of returning to drinking. I'll be joining in the discussion too. Okay?
The other thing that is fortunate is both Langkah an I have decades of sobriety and it looks like we have polar opposite experiences of how we arrived to wherever we are. So if we can have this open discussion without needing a referee to hold our hands and admonish us, then we have a rare opportunity to come to a better understanding of how two differing experiences both realize a lasting sobriety. There is wisdom in our differences to be discovered, you know? and I would enjoy the experiences of those discoveries too. Yeah.
'consider me sober for good this time.'
Here's a different view that's served me well to this point. Being an alcoholic means i'm likely to drink again as alcoholics normally and customarily do. If failing to maintain sobriety is common in this group of people who have this thing, then by being one it follows that it's probably the way it will also be for me. Choosing not to do what alcoholics naturally do alters nothing for them and since we match condition-wise it alters nothing for me that i don't want to ever drink again.
I've lived suspended in an unnatural state for a long time and i do hope it continues. My avatar is a visual of that. Existing mid way between the two lifes alcoholics can experience. If you are poolside and jump in there's a point where you're suspended in air and not tied to land and not in the water.
Remaining there for the rest of my life will take something highly special, and since people like me go one way or another eventually it's almost inevitable that i will too. Doing the aa stuff allows me to remain in this highly unusual condition. It's demanding but it's enough, fortunately. Should i believe i've achieved permanent stasis and disconnect from this magic then i'm certain of what i can expect. I'll return to the state of existence that is natural for myself, the state you stepped away from a week ago.
So i consider myself likely to drink again and because i think you're also the real thing i consider you also very likely to drink again, given the reality of alcoholism. For now you won't and i won't. But we probably will given that our condition will never change as long as we breathe.
Out of ignorance people sometimes make a big deal out of bill w begging for whiskey on his deathbed after many years. To me that's only an indication that the understanding i described is correct. What we've got is what we've got. Living as well as we can as long as we can supported well and effectively in this different and unnatural condition is as good as it gets.
I think the topic is important -- being sober for good and all. The share by Langkah I've quoted interests me because I see built in failure or at least a requirement to struggle with alcoholic thinking as presented in his share. Seems to me a tough hard way to keep sober without any added benefits for the added efforts, imo. I think it's not real helpful for newcomers to the recovery scene but would (possibly) be helpful for old hands or experienced alcoholics who have a history of returning to drinking. I'll be joining in the discussion too. Okay?
The other thing that is fortunate is both Langkah an I have decades of sobriety and it looks like we have polar opposite experiences of how we arrived to wherever we are. So if we can have this open discussion without needing a referee to hold our hands and admonish us, then we have a rare opportunity to come to a better understanding of how two differing experiences both realize a lasting sobriety. There is wisdom in our differences to be discovered, you know? and I would enjoy the experiences of those discoveries too. Yeah.
Originally Posted by langkah 
'consider me sober for good this time.'
Here's a different view that's served me well to this point. Being an alcoholic means i'm likely to drink again as alcoholics normally and customarily do. If failing to maintain sobriety is common in this group of people who have this thing, then by being one it follows that it's probably the way it will also be for me. Choosing not to do what alcoholics naturally do alters nothing for them and since we match condition-wise it alters nothing for me that i don't want to ever drink again.
I've lived suspended in an unnatural state for a long time and i do hope it continues. My avatar is a visual of that. Existing mid way between the two lifes alcoholics can experience. If you are poolside and jump in there's a point where you're suspended in air and not tied to land and not in the water.
Remaining there for the rest of my life will take something highly special, and since people like me go one way or another eventually it's almost inevitable that i will too. Doing the aa stuff allows me to remain in this highly unusual condition. It's demanding but it's enough, fortunately. Should i believe i've achieved permanent stasis and disconnect from this magic then i'm certain of what i can expect. I'll return to the state of existence that is natural for myself, the state you stepped away from a week ago.
So i consider myself likely to drink again and because i think you're also the real thing i consider you also very likely to drink again, given the reality of alcoholism. For now you won't and i won't. But we probably will given that our condition will never change as long as we breathe.
Out of ignorance people sometimes make a big deal out of bill w begging for whiskey on his deathbed after many years. To me that's only an indication that the understanding i described is correct. What we've got is what we've got. Living as well as we can as long as we can supported well and effectively in this different and unnatural condition is as good as it gets.
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My alcoholism illness is unempowered (arrested) and so my alcoholic mind is very weak and for all purposes dead in the water. So as an alcoholic I have the freedom to choose this, that, or the other thing as I may please, without worry or concerns of returning to drinking because of a wrong choice. None of my sober choices can lead me back to drinking. To return to drinking I would needs be thinking with my alcoholic mind, which is so offline as to be really just a collection of unorganised thoughts floating around in the junkyard abyss of my unempowered alcoholism.
I will never drink again. I am absolutely not likely to drink again. I am in a new natural state as a recovered alcoholic. I am remade and yet I am still with my arrested alcoholic illness. I have had a revolutionary psychic change. I am a recovered alcoholic.
Keeping my spiritual state in healthy awareness is not difficult at all and in fact I can do it in my sleep too.
I will never drink again. I am absolutely not likely to drink again. I am in a new natural state as a recovered alcoholic. I am remade and yet I am still with my arrested alcoholic illness. I have had a revolutionary psychic change. I am a recovered alcoholic.
Keeping my spiritual state in healthy awareness is not difficult at all and in fact I can do it in my sleep too.
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For me so far...It's been a matter of learning the principles of the program of AA and practicing them daily. I posted this when Langkah first posted the post above...
The way I look at it..Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of those 12 steps...I simply have to practice them daily until they become a working part of the mind...Living the steps without numbers I guess...If I start my day and end it as outlined in the book...I'll maintain fit spiritual condition....And I have enough faith in my God as I understand him...If I pray for knowledge of His will for me and strength to carry that out...I won't drink today...That wouldn't be his will for me...If I continue to follow this design for living...One day at a time...I'll never have to drink again. I haven't returned to drinking since I walked into AA. But I think one of the most impotant lines in the book for me is this...
The spiritual life is not a theory. We have to live it.
If I can do that today...I won't drink. At least that's the way I look at it.
Originally Posted by Sapling
We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition.
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The spiritual life is not a theory. We have to live it.
If I can do that today...I won't drink. At least that's the way I look at it.
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When I drank my HP was my alcoholic illness, as defined by AA. My chronic alcoholism called the shots (pun intended) and I was nothing more then a slave to my addictions. All my struggles against my alcoholism were useless because all my struggles were really efforts to control my drinking. The control efforts were engineered by my alcoholic mind so as to more enjoy my drunkeness. Even my alcoholic self had no use for blackouts, dramas, ER visits, hospitals, jails, drunk driving, broken relationships, hard times.
I'll say it again: my alcoholism itself had no use for my being all fukked up. Nada. None. Zip. So controlled drinking was an effort to get me back on track and still drink alcoholically. There was a purpose to controlled drinking directed by my alcoholic thinking which originated in my alcoholic mind which has its orgins in my alcoholism illness.
Of course, we all know from experience that controlled drinking fails. Big time. Epic fail. My alcoholic mind still had no choice but to fight for its survival by controlling my alcohol intake. The alternative was drink myself to death without pause -- or -- stop drinking.
Eventually stopping (not quitting) drinking became the prefered madness of my alcoholic thinkings and actions. So for me, controlled drinking was really just stopping between drinks. I was likely to drink again. My natural state at this juncture was to be both drinking and not drinking. Simply taking turns at swinging the alcoholic bat looking for that sweet spot and hoping for scoring a decent drunk to get out of my misery of controlled drinking. It was all a just a sick matter of competing trade-offs ad nauseum.
I'll say it again: my alcoholism itself had no use for my being all fukked up. Nada. None. Zip. So controlled drinking was an effort to get me back on track and still drink alcoholically. There was a purpose to controlled drinking directed by my alcoholic thinking which originated in my alcoholic mind which has its orgins in my alcoholism illness.
Of course, we all know from experience that controlled drinking fails. Big time. Epic fail. My alcoholic mind still had no choice but to fight for its survival by controlling my alcohol intake. The alternative was drink myself to death without pause -- or -- stop drinking.
Eventually stopping (not quitting) drinking became the prefered madness of my alcoholic thinkings and actions. So for me, controlled drinking was really just stopping between drinks. I was likely to drink again. My natural state at this juncture was to be both drinking and not drinking. Simply taking turns at swinging the alcoholic bat looking for that sweet spot and hoping for scoring a decent drunk to get out of my misery of controlled drinking. It was all a just a sick matter of competing trade-offs ad nauseum.
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Robby & Sapling,
I find the post that you quoted by Langkah to be more encompassing. I think Langkah is referring to the entire set of alcoholics while you are drawing from a smaller subset. I find both views correct. However the more general set includes a group that is not included in the smaller set - that of those alcoholics who are truely mentally ill. Only someone with an irresistable obsessive/compulsive disorder can understand. It is a monumental, ongoing battle won minute by minute by working A program with discipline.
For an OCD there is always the possibility (probability) that we will, at some point, be overwhelmed by the compulsion. It is always there lurking and cannot be escaped permenantly. At least not by any psychiatric trick or medical procedure or perscription I have found. I asked (seriously) several times for an elective lobotomy. Don't laugh. I believe that's the only complete relief I will find short of death. Unfortunately, that's not an option so the battle rages. Riight now I'm winning. That may not always be the case.
I find the post that you quoted by Langkah to be more encompassing. I think Langkah is referring to the entire set of alcoholics while you are drawing from a smaller subset. I find both views correct. However the more general set includes a group that is not included in the smaller set - that of those alcoholics who are truely mentally ill. Only someone with an irresistable obsessive/compulsive disorder can understand. It is a monumental, ongoing battle won minute by minute by working A program with discipline.
For an OCD there is always the possibility (probability) that we will, at some point, be overwhelmed by the compulsion. It is always there lurking and cannot be escaped permenantly. At least not by any psychiatric trick or medical procedure or perscription I have found. I asked (seriously) several times for an elective lobotomy. Don't laugh. I believe that's the only complete relief I will find short of death. Unfortunately, that's not an option so the battle rages. Riight now I'm winning. That may not always be the case.
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What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition.
What that means to me is alcoholism in it's active state is a death sentence. Recovery gives us a means to live normally as long as we do the things we need to in order to stay sober. Above all else that means don't drink.
The Big book often refers to the alcoholic that has "recovered. However, alot of AA's really do not like to ever refer to themselves as such. For most of them, they're still in the "recovery" state. Often, arguments errupt as a result because alot of them don't believe anyone is ever truely "recovered". Do I think it's possible? YES. i do. I think it's rare though.
Robby has alot of time and is someone who I look to as an example because of his level of scerenity. He no longer struggles with this. It's very plain to me.
he, in my opinion is at total peace that his alcoholic life is completely behind him and that part of his life will never ever be revisited. I believe him. I'd like to get there one day. I'm not there yet.
However, I rarely think about alcohol anymore. When you first get sober, it's all you think about...then day by day, it starts to subside and you wake up again. Most of us, to a life that is productive and not riddled with urges to drink. i know for me, the longer i stayed sober, the less i wanted to drink. the thoughts of destroying my life by drinking to oblivion get less and less as time goes by. So, imo, after more than 2 decades, i do think it's possible to completely recover.
Thursday, i think i had an urge to drink...or maybe it was just being angry. sometimes i have a hard time differentiating the 2 because i only ever drank when i was angry. Alot of times when i see gross injustices happen in this world, i get those old feelings back.
one day i hope i will be able to work the last part of the "promises" of AA in my life so i don't get these knee jerk reactions...
We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
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Originally Posted by Charon
For an OCD there is always the possibility (probability) that we will, at some point, be overwhelmed by the compulsion. It is always there lurking and cannot be escaped permenantly. At least not by any psychiatric trick or medical procedure or perscription I have found. I asked (seriously) several times for an elective lobotomy. Don't laugh. I believe that's the only complete relief I will find short of death. Unfortunately, that's not an option so the battle rages. Riight now I'm winning. That may not always be the case.
I'm not laughing, believe me. When I did my three days confined at the mental hospital I too asked them to just cut me open and take out me out of my misery. "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" (1975) comes to mind, okay?
Well, that little stay got me tagged with chronic undifferentiated schizophrenia-- on top of my alcoholism, which they said had little to do with my mental problems. They agreed I should not drink so much, but they absolutely saw my mental ills as schizo and not alcoholic.
And with all respect Charon, I am alcoholic as described in the AA big book. I had obsessional thinkings. I had the cravings. I have the chronic alcoholism has described by AA. OCD as an illness in itself I do not have, so I'm earnestly interested in understanding how your unending alcoholic struggles and your OCD can't be seperated. I of course think the illness of alcoholism can be arrested so that your OCD dosen't drive you to drink, you know?
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Interesting topic Robby, obviously there are many who quit for good using many different methods. When you shut down the active alcoholic program in your brain for good you become a non-drinker. Is it still there locked up in a cage in your brains memory bank? Maybe, but you would have to get the latest updates (by drinking again), to reboot the program and therein lies the essence of it all. No one but you can restart the program which is now dysfunctional.
The notion that there is an overwhelming desire to drink lurking around every corner if you don't do this, that and the other thing for the rest of your life doesn't make any sense to me. In my mind it's an addiction like any other which needs to be fed to stay active. Starve the thing, let it stay in hybernation and never wake it up again and it's not a problem.
Then you get into the notion of the dry drunk, that is to say having an alcoholic mind in the absence of alcohol. Is this even possible and if it is just exactly what is it we are talking about here. Is this a manifestation of OCD, lack of spirituality or whatever. As I have no direct experience with this I have no point of reference.
In my mind alcoholism is the addiction itself which can be arrested in many different ways. It can't be restarted tho unless we make the conscious decision to do so. Just my POV.
The notion that there is an overwhelming desire to drink lurking around every corner if you don't do this, that and the other thing for the rest of your life doesn't make any sense to me. In my mind it's an addiction like any other which needs to be fed to stay active. Starve the thing, let it stay in hybernation and never wake it up again and it's not a problem.
Then you get into the notion of the dry drunk, that is to say having an alcoholic mind in the absence of alcohol. Is this even possible and if it is just exactly what is it we are talking about here. Is this a manifestation of OCD, lack of spirituality or whatever. As I have no direct experience with this I have no point of reference.
In my mind alcoholism is the addiction itself which can be arrested in many different ways. It can't be restarted tho unless we make the conscious decision to do so. Just my POV.
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Originally Posted by BullDog777
The Big book often refers to the alcoholic that has "recovered. However, alot of AA's really do not like to ever refer to themselves as such. For most of them, they're still in the "recovery" state. Often, arguments errupt as a result because alot of them don't believe anyone is ever truely "recovered". Do I think it's possible? YES. i do. I think it's rare though.
We, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE RECOVERED is the main purpose of this book.
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Originally Posted by Charon
I find the post that you quoted by Langkah to be more encompassing. I think Langkah is referring to the entire set of alcoholics while you are drawing from a smaller subset.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplaced the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.
This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.
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Originally Posted by BullDog777
The Big book often refers to the alcoholic that has "recovered. However, alot of AA's really do not like to ever refer to themselves as such. For most of them, they're still in the "recovery" state. Often, arguments errupt as a result because alot of them don't believe anyone is ever truely "recovered". Do I think it's possible? YES. i do. I think it's rare though.
Robby has alot of time and is someone who I look to as an example because of his level of scerenity. He no longer struggles with this. It's very plain to me.
he, in my opinion is at total peace that his alcoholic life is completely behind him and that part of his life will never ever be revisited. I believe him. I'd like to get there one day. I'm not there yet.
However, I rarely think about alcohol anymore.
Robby has alot of time and is someone who I look to as an example because of his level of scerenity. He no longer struggles with this. It's very plain to me.
he, in my opinion is at total peace that his alcoholic life is completely behind him and that part of his life will never ever be revisited. I believe him. I'd like to get there one day. I'm not there yet.
However, I rarely think about alcohol anymore.
Originally Posted by BullDog
When you first get sober, it's all you think about...then day by day, it starts to subside and you wake up again. Most of us, to a life that is productive and not riddled with urges to drink. i know for me, the longer i stayed sober, the less i wanted to drink. the thoughts of destroying my life by drinking to oblivion get less and less as time goes by. So, imo, after more than 2 decades, i do think it's possible to completely recover.
Originally Posted by BullDog
Thursday, i think i had an urge to drink...or maybe it was just being angry. sometimes i have a hard time differentiating the 2 because i only ever drank when i was angry. Alot of times when i see gross injustices happen in this world, i get those old feelings back.
one day i hope i will be able to work the last part of the "promises" of AA in my life so i don't get these knee jerk reactions... For me, I think that's what my constant journey is searching for. i no longer want to find those answers in the bottom of a bottle. Does that mean i've recovered? i dunno.
one day i hope i will be able to work the last part of the "promises" of AA in my life so i don't get these knee jerk reactions... For me, I think that's what my constant journey is searching for. i no longer want to find those answers in the bottom of a bottle. Does that mean i've recovered? i dunno.
I'm sorry. Words are not enough. Mine eyes are full of tears as I write this post. You're so recovered, BullDog. It's why you can understand my alcoholism and sobriety so well. Think on that please. Unorganised thoughts or feelings is not of enough consequence to disqualify one from being recovered.
Being recovered has unlimited room for making mistakes and learning from those mistakes. We don't have to be perfect to be recovered. Being recovered means none of those opportunities for learning from our mistakes will lead us back to alcoholic drinking and abusing whatever. We *can* live in safety and comfort everlasting.
Being recovered is a humane state of being without alcoholic fears of living a life sans alcohol.
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Originally Posted by BullDog777
arguments erupt as a result because alot of them don't believe anyone is ever...
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I just want to make clear that the way my sponsor told me to work this program...If it's AA...It's in the BB...I have found every answer to every question I've had in that book...I don't know how they did that...I don't want to know...All I know is that it works...
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This is a really interesting topic.
I struggled for a very long time with being an alcoholic and not being able to stay stopped, no matter what the consequences of my drinking were, both internally and externally. I thought there was no hope for me.
But with time, lots of honesty, talking with my sponsor and other alcoholics, the steps, meetings, something clicked, the psychic change did finally take hold.
I have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. I really thought I was going to die a drunk and that has been fully removed. I have hope for the future now.
I've only been sober two years, but I know I don't ever have to pick up a drink again and that is liberating. Does that mean I don't want to pick up a drink sometimes? No. To be honest, I do feel the old pull sometimes and the hallucination does threaten to reappear but the difference is that now I can see it. I can see the alcoholic insanity for what it was and not be pulled back into it.
You know those optical illusions that show two pictures in one? Like the old woman and the young girl? When you first try to look at them, it's almost impossible to see the other. But once you see that the picture is composed of two images, it's impossible not to see both.
I feel like that way with my alcoholism. I spent years as a hopeless alcoholic, but now that I have experienced a 180 change, I can't not see that I don't have the ability to stay sober for the rest of my life. Other people have done it and so can I. Relapse rates are meaningless to me because I know the change I have gone through and I am committed to following this life no matter what until the day I die.
Which I hope to be at a healthy old age and not the miserable death of an end stage alcoholic.
I do find other people's approaches and viewpoints interesting. I'm just sharing mine.
Thanks for this topic.
I struggled for a very long time with being an alcoholic and not being able to stay stopped, no matter what the consequences of my drinking were, both internally and externally. I thought there was no hope for me.
But with time, lots of honesty, talking with my sponsor and other alcoholics, the steps, meetings, something clicked, the psychic change did finally take hold.
I have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. I really thought I was going to die a drunk and that has been fully removed. I have hope for the future now.
I've only been sober two years, but I know I don't ever have to pick up a drink again and that is liberating. Does that mean I don't want to pick up a drink sometimes? No. To be honest, I do feel the old pull sometimes and the hallucination does threaten to reappear but the difference is that now I can see it. I can see the alcoholic insanity for what it was and not be pulled back into it.
You know those optical illusions that show two pictures in one? Like the old woman and the young girl? When you first try to look at them, it's almost impossible to see the other. But once you see that the picture is composed of two images, it's impossible not to see both.
I feel like that way with my alcoholism. I spent years as a hopeless alcoholic, but now that I have experienced a 180 change, I can't not see that I don't have the ability to stay sober for the rest of my life. Other people have done it and so can I. Relapse rates are meaningless to me because I know the change I have gone through and I am committed to following this life no matter what until the day I die.
Which I hope to be at a healthy old age and not the miserable death of an end stage alcoholic.
I do find other people's approaches and viewpoints interesting. I'm just sharing mine.
Thanks for this topic.
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Thanks for sharing CupofJoe...I only have nine months and I'd say your post is spot on for how I feel....Especially this...
I have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. I really thought I was going to die a drunk and that has been fully removed. I have hope for the future now.
For me...That's priceless....
I have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. I really thought I was going to die a drunk and that has been fully removed. I have hope for the future now.
For me...That's priceless....
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Interesting topic Robby, obviously there are many who quit for good using many different methods. When you shut down the active alcoholic program in your brain for good you become a non-drinker. Is it still there locked up in a cage in your brains memory bank? Maybe, but you would have to get the latest updates (by drinking again), to reboot the program and therein lies the essence of it all. No one but you can restart the program which is now dysfunctional.
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
The notion that there is an overwhelming desire to drink lurking around every corner if you don't do this, that and the other thing for the rest of your life doesn't make any sense to me. In my mind it's an addiction like any other which needs to be fed to stay active. Starve the thing, let it stay in hybernation and never wake it up again and it's not a problem.
Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Then you get into the notion of the dry drunk, that is to say having an alcoholic mind in the absence of alcohol. Is this even possible and if it is just exactly what is it we are talking about here. Is this a manifestation of OCD, lack of spirituality or whatever. As I have no direct experience with this I have no point of reference.
In my mind alcoholism is the addiction itself which can be arrested in many different ways. It can't be restarted tho unless we make the conscious decision to do so. Just my POV.
In my mind alcoholism is the addiction itself which can be arrested in many different ways. It can't be restarted tho unless we make the conscious decision to do so. Just my POV.
The knowing of the awareness of the co-existing of the two competing states of mind is the key to the unlocking of the dry drunk experience and successfully moving past all that misery.
My alcoholism can be brought back with consequences for me without my needing to drink alcohol to bring it back. I don't see it as a simple conscious decision because if i did there would be no safety in making decisions, and of course i would therefore eventually be in misery just from thinking about whatever.
However, I can potentially choose to damage my psyche in ways other then what alcoholism has already wrought, and in that additional damage, my alcoholism can become empowered once again. There would be dire conseqences for me of course because i would have the new damage and as well I would have the original alcoholism. In fact, because of the new damage, which I didn't have when I quit, I would be worse off then when I was originally drinking.
Not good.
This understanding of not again fundamentally damaging my psyche in new additional ways is what is really definitively meant as I have come to understand AA recovery by keeping myself healthy and maintaining my spiritual condition. I know this is not a contemporary understanding, but there it is nonetheless.
Awesome Stuff, BTSO.
Thanks.
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Location: Bethlehem, PA.
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These discussions are interesting, kind of like looking at one of those rorschach ink blots. Many of us are looking at the same ink blot, just seeing it in a different way. The extreme obsession, compulsion and cravings are universal but can be ascribed to individual points of view. They "fit" many different interpretations.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by CupofJoe
This is a really interesting topic.
I struggled for a very long time with being an alcoholic and not being able to stay stopped, no matter what the consequences of my drinking were, both internally and externally. I thought there was no hope for me.
But with time, lots of honesty, talking with my sponsor and other alcoholics, the steps, meetings, something clicked, the psychic change did finally take hold.
I have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. I really thought I was going to die a drunk and that has been fully removed. I have hope for the future now.
I've only been sober two years, but I know I don't ever have to pick up a drink again and that is liberating. Does that mean I don't want to pick up a drink sometimes? No. To be honest, I do feel the old pull sometimes and the hallucination does threaten to reappear but the difference is that now I can see it. I can see the alcoholic insanity for what it was and not be pulled back into it.
You know those optical illusions that show two pictures in one? Like the old woman and the young girl? When you first try to look at them, it's almost impossible to see the other. But once you see that the picture is composed of two images, it's impossible not to see both.
I feel like that way with my alcoholism. I spent years as a hopeless alcoholic, but now that I have experienced a 180 change, I can't not see that I don't have the ability to stay sober for the rest of my life. Other people have done it and so can I. Relapse rates are meaningless to me because I know the change I have gone through and I am committed to following this life no matter what until the day I die.
Which I hope to be at a healthy old age and not the miserable death of an end stage alcoholic.
I do find other people's approaches and viewpoints interesting. I'm just sharing mine.
Thanks for this topic.
I struggled for a very long time with being an alcoholic and not being able to stay stopped, no matter what the consequences of my drinking were, both internally and externally. I thought there was no hope for me.
But with time, lots of honesty, talking with my sponsor and other alcoholics, the steps, meetings, something clicked, the psychic change did finally take hold.
I have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. I really thought I was going to die a drunk and that has been fully removed. I have hope for the future now.
I've only been sober two years, but I know I don't ever have to pick up a drink again and that is liberating. Does that mean I don't want to pick up a drink sometimes? No. To be honest, I do feel the old pull sometimes and the hallucination does threaten to reappear but the difference is that now I can see it. I can see the alcoholic insanity for what it was and not be pulled back into it.
You know those optical illusions that show two pictures in one? Like the old woman and the young girl? When you first try to look at them, it's almost impossible to see the other. But once you see that the picture is composed of two images, it's impossible not to see both.
I feel like that way with my alcoholism. I spent years as a hopeless alcoholic, but now that I have experienced a 180 change, I can't not see that I don't have the ability to stay sober for the rest of my life. Other people have done it and so can I. Relapse rates are meaningless to me because I know the change I have gone through and I am committed to following this life no matter what until the day I die.
Which I hope to be at a healthy old age and not the miserable death of an end stage alcoholic.
I do find other people's approaches and viewpoints interesting. I'm just sharing mine.
Thanks for this topic.
Yeah.
You got it going on. Absolutely.
Awesome share. Thanks, CupofJoe.
lillyknitting
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Loughton, Essex, England
Posts: 638
I feel the only way I will never drink again is because the negative effects of the action of drinking far outweighs the positive. This feeling has been brought about by constantly keep going back to drinking with the same negative effects. Now everything that is involved and evolves around drinking is unappealing to me totally unlike it used to, because I desired the drink so much I sought undesirable places and people to drink with in order to get my fix. It has taken. Long time to get to this stage though and I'm not sure why it took so long, I think that our society and culture avidly propels us to continue drinking even though it has disastrous and catastrophic results to our society as a whole.
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