Terminally Unique

Don't argue, INH. The addictive mentality will play both sides of all arguments, and always land on its feet, so to speak, no matter what you argue. I don't know how far you've gotten in the RR book, but try this:

Firstly, name that addictive mentality. (RR recommends 'Beast')

Secondly, realize that you are not your Beast, you are INH.

Thirdly, when you hear "I want a drink," think to yourself "IT -- my Beast -- wants to drink, but I don't drink. Since addictive desire is not me, but the Beast, I don't even want to drink."

Mean it. You're still relatively early on, but if you mean what you say, the thoughts should fall silent.

InsertNameHere

Obviously that didn't end well, I lost the fight last night. I can't wait for that feeling to return again this evening (sarcasm). I am calm enough right now but honestly it is because there is probably still beer in my system. I really need to just stay at work. Just stay in the building, order pizza, read a book, anything but leave the building. I know that if I leave I will get beer and drink to my hearts content. I have clothes and a place to sleep (whenever I actually can). Jesus I am sure I will get bad this evening. How did I do this for years and not notice where it was going? That is a good question.

Anyhow thank you all for your advice and especially TU for the information you sent me. I am trying to take your (TU's) initial advice and lay off beer for a full 24 hours get a good nights sleep (yeah right) and read rational recovery. So far I have been a mixture of sucessfull and not.

Once again thank you to everyone and sorry.

Just stay in the building.

INH

InsertNameHere

And it starts. Just within the last few minutes the withdrawls start to take effect. I am just going to close my door and turn off the lights and try to take a nap. I know that I won't sleep tonight anyway so I might as well get what I can and try to sleep through as much of this crazyness as I can.

INH

naive

hang in there.

one minute at a time, one hour at a time.

keep posting if you are desperate.

this too will pass....

InsertNameHere

Thinking about getting a cup of coffee but I am willing to bet that will just make what I am going through worse. I just need to concentrate on one thing at a time and get stuff done just keep doing that till I get tired and then DO NOT make the decision to go home! I will not go home!

INH

keithj

I appreciate your sharing your experience, vichloe. It differs from mine, but that's OK.

My experience with making a choice that I was finished led me to many years of disappointed, progressively worse alcoholic drinking. There are a couple million recovered alcoholics that found the same futility with making a choice to be done with booze.

I bring this up only in case there are others out there reading who have found that same futility I did in making a choice to stop drinking. If you find yourself failing over and over at not drinking, maybe it's worth exploring what others like you have done to recover.

InsertNameHere

I think that is what is happening to me. I know that when I first started thinking I might have a problem and tried to quit I made it like two or three days and then went ballistic. And now that seems to be a reacuring problem. I go for a couple of days misserably sober ridiculiously tired and freaking out, then I go back to the beer to make that stop, or "the urge" will hit me and I won't say no. I will not be drinking tonight I have made that decision firmly, but I don't know how long this will last.

And yes I know that I need to make the firm decision to never drink again, I am just haveing problems getting myself to actually belive that.

INH

vichloe

How did you quit drinking then, Keithj if it wasn't by choice? I'm not trying to be snarky! It's hard to communicate sometimes on message boards because there is no emotion so don't take me wrong please..

I feel everything in life is a choice.. You chose what you'll eat, whom you sleep with, when you'll brush your teeth and if you'll pick up a drink.

It got to the point in my life, I realized I wanted to choose life instead of drinking myself to death. I think sometimes we overcomplicate things.

vichloe

I think you keep going back to alcohol because you are not getting past the withdrawals. If you could make it 1 week without a drink, you'd feel better. Could you see a doctor and see if they can help you through the detox period? Or set a goal of not drinking for one week and if you don't feel any better than go back at it..

DayTrader

I'll let Keith answer your question even though I want to answer it for him.....

I pulled this off Merriam-Webster.com:

choose
verb \ˈchüz\
chose cho·sen choos·ing
Definition of CHOOSE
transitive verb
1
a : to select freely and after consideration <choose a career> b : to decide on especially by vote : elect <chose her as captain>
2
a : to have a preference for <choose one car over another> b : decide <chose to go by train>
intransitive verb
1
: to make a selection <finding it hard to choose>
2
: to take an alternative —used after cannot and usually followed by but <when earth is so kind, men cannot choose but be happy — J. A. Froude>
— choos·er noun
See choose defined for English-language learners »
See choose defined for kids »


driven
adj
Definition of DRIVEN
1
: having a compulsive or urgent quality <a driven sense of obligation>
2
: propelled or motivated by something —used in combination <results-driven>
— driv·en·ness noun
See driven defined for English-language learners »
Examples of DRIVEN

They are driven, successful people.
<a man with a driven need to be loved or liked by everyone>


When I look back at my drinking history, I see a lot of times where I CHOSE not to drink (I'd do it on my way home from work almost every Friday - "You're NOT gonna get loaded today Michael....just this ONE time.....no drinking when you get home.") that were followed by, guess what? ....me drinking. It was the most frustrating thing ever. I'd choose to stay sober, I'd choose to not drink.....then....it was like I'd be so compelled to drink that I'd drink....

The Big Book in AA makes a distinction between "choice" and "driven" (that's why I put the definitions above). Looking back at my drinking, I see a whole lot less "choice" and a whole lot more "driven."

It's that distinction Vichloe, that you'll see a lot of AA ppl referring to when they say "If you can CHOOSE to not drink, that's great........but it didn't work for us - we needed something more (or "different" if you prefer)."

vichloe

Not feeling up to par today and don't want to feel like I'm arguring or a total biatch..

When you lose the power of choice and say you were "driven", it seems like you are not taking personal responsibility for your actions..

Could you explain what you mean by "but didn't work for us- we needed something more."? What is the "more"? Maybe it will help others that are struggling..

REJAG22

hey man my name is jesse i just read your message.its a good thing that you really want to quit .i do too but i was up to 2 pints a day. and in tryin to wean my self down cuz theres a high chance ill siexe up . im lookin for someone to talk or chat with to help me stay straight. how old are you ? if youd like to get to know me more indepth jus let me know there is strength in numbers!

InsertNameHere

@vichloe; The longest I have made it was 14 days if I remember right anyway. I am pretty sure that I made it through the withdrawls that time but man oh man one evening that urge hit me and I drowned myself in beer again. I haven't come anywhere near that amount of time latley though.

@REJAG22; I am 29 and don't know how much a pint is precisley but I think I drink a lot more than two of them. I am usually about 15-20 12oz beers a day. I can't do the chat thing right now as I am on my work computer and don't have internet at the house right now. I can post here obviously.

@DAYTRADER; thanks for the thoughts I haven't decided which I think more if it is a compulsion or a choice as it seems like a little of both. there is the drive to drink that is for certain, especially last night when that was all I could think about. But there is I think the actual choice involved as well, just because I want to drink and am thinking about drinking, am driven to drink, dosent actually mean that I will. At least that is what I am thinking now anyway, I am by no means sure of that as I am still kicking it around in my head.

INH

Terminally Unique

INH,

You gotta change your attitude here. You say you've never gotten past three days, but you're probably going to have to get to a week to clear this hump. The point of 'detox' is not to run away from pain. You are choosing short-term pain in order to get off the merry go round and stop the long-term pain. I say white knuckle it for a week, but if you can't do it, talk to a local doctor.

I think you said you're in a third world country? That may actually be a good thing, because they don't have quite the same hang-ups about home detox in the rest of the world that they do in the USA. They also don't have the spare hospital space to waste on drunks, so you won't get any objections to a detox script.

DayTrader

I'd respectfully disagree..... (I'm not saying you're wrong, just that INH's experience may be different from yours - I know mine is) I've known ppl who've gone weeks, months, even years without drinking who absolutely got past the physical part of alcoholism.........but drank again.

Getting past the physical attachment to alcohol is part of the deal for some ppl but it's not the end of the game. Physical sobriety, for me, is not enough to keep me sober for good. Maintaining my mental sobriety is a big help. Maintaining my SPIRITUAL sobriety.....that's the biggie for me. When I'm walking the spiritual path (ie, living my life in accordance with my understanding of how my HP desires me to be living), I find that alcohol doesn't come to my mind. "The problem has been removed" ...it doesn't exist.

When I worked on my drinking problem.....I kept drinking. When I work on my spirituality, the drinking gets taken care of as a by-product.

.....and it's ok if that's confusing or doesn't make sense. It's one of the many paradoxes in AA

InsertNameHere

@TU; Thank you and that is what I keep planning to do, I just end up giving in eventually. Like yesterday, yesterdy was bad. I think I will be alright tonight, and I tried to do the I do not want a drink it/he wants a drink, I do not drink. But it just ended up occupying my mind just as much as before. I will continue to work on this though I haven't given up yet just feel like I keep getting my ass kicked by this damn beer, or as you would say by I keep giving in to my AV and "the Beast" and haven't figured out yet how to seperate me from it in my mind.

INH

DayTrader

It may seem like that but it's not......I absolutely was and am responsible for my past, my drinking, and my sobriety going forward.

Pretty much, it means what it says.... choosing to stay sober wasn't enough for me to stay sober. It would work for a little while but continuing to choose to not drink didn't KEEP me sober. (It's like that Seinfeld episode about "taking a reservation vs hoooolding the reservation". Getting sober is well and good.....but keeeeeeeping sober is what matters.) I needed to do more than just choose... I needed to change - I needed a complete re-build......because choosing to not drink didn't result in me not drinking.

***I won't further derail this thread INH....sorry about that. If anyone wants to discuss my views on choice, driven, AA or whatever, shoot me a pm or let's start a new thread.

2granddaughters

In my case, when all else failed, AA was there for me.

Wishing everyone the best in their recovery.

Bob R

Terminally Unique

I'm usually up for a good discussion, but is this the best thread to discuss the power of choice? At this point, INH hasn't even gotten the damn booze out of his system. Let him get through the withdrawal and then he can start reading the Big Book or whatever may float his boat.

vichloe

The last fight left in this dog today. Maybe we can agree to disagree.

For me, becoming sober meant a choice to change.