What is relapsing?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
What is relapsing?
I'm not trying to rationalize, justify etc... my AH's relapsing...
I am trying to understand if my take on it is too "harsh" (and if it is then it is-- I am not changing my plan to leave him) or if the stuff I've heard him tell me for a while now (that he says he hears in AA) is real or lies?
What I am told is this:
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
True?
I posted this on the al anon family board too but I was interested to hear what those who are living with addiction or recovery themselves think about this... If relapsing is to be expected then I guess I'd like to know so that I can have a bit more compassion for my AH than I do at the moment!
Opinions?
I am trying to understand if my take on it is too "harsh" (and if it is then it is-- I am not changing my plan to leave him) or if the stuff I've heard him tell me for a while now (that he says he hears in AA) is real or lies?
What I am told is this:
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
True?
I posted this on the al anon family board too but I was interested to hear what those who are living with addiction or recovery themselves think about this... If relapsing is to be expected then I guess I'd like to know so that I can have a bit more compassion for my AH than I do at the moment!
Opinions?
Riding Barefoot
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 452
I wouldn't go as far as to say that it is part of recovery and everyone does it, but it is not uncommon. Some like to make a distinction between a "slip" and a "relapse". I think the distinction is that a relapse is more long term whereas a "slip" is maybe just one night? Not sure, and I really don't think it matters...
I don't really agree with those other quotes in your post, either. I don't think there is any way other than cold turkey to quit drinking, and I am not sure that it is common for relapses to lessen in severity... from what I have heard, when someone relapses, they go right back to the level of drinking that they were at before, or more.
I don't really agree with those other quotes in your post, either. I don't think there is any way other than cold turkey to quit drinking, and I am not sure that it is common for relapses to lessen in severity... from what I have heard, when someone relapses, they go right back to the level of drinking that they were at before, or more.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 65
Not knowing your whole situation...my gut tells me he's making excuses and isn't really ready to stop. Yes, people relapse sometimes...but the things he's telling you seem to exhibit a somewhat cavalier attitude for someone who really wants to stop. For those of us who are *done* with booze for good, relapse is a sad, (ultimately) sobering, frightening, shame-inducing, guilt-ridden experience. We understand that it's not like forgetting to put the cap on the toothpaste...it is life or death we're dealing with.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I don't do AA so i don't know what they say to him in his group.
truthfully, I think your bull$**** meter should be on high alert....he is feeding you what he wants to hear about relapsing.
I originally stopped drinking 8-10 glasses of wine a night in Feb. 2010....in July I tried having a couple of glasses of wine with a dinner out in the company of friends. my drinking turned into a nightly pity party and in August I was JUST as ILL from drinking as if I had never stopped....I I decided to put the brakes on while I was sick as i could be physically with a hangover and have not been drinking since August 18, 2010.
I don't consider that progress....but what I feel is progress is LIKING being a non-drinker, changing my patterns and mindset.
to repeat what everyone says here is that if nothing changes, nothing changes.... I have read a lot of your posts in F&F...your husband sounds like a selfish person and i think he is feeding you a line of crapola.
truthfully, I think your bull$**** meter should be on high alert....he is feeding you what he wants to hear about relapsing.
I originally stopped drinking 8-10 glasses of wine a night in Feb. 2010....in July I tried having a couple of glasses of wine with a dinner out in the company of friends. my drinking turned into a nightly pity party and in August I was JUST as ILL from drinking as if I had never stopped....I I decided to put the brakes on while I was sick as i could be physically with a hangover and have not been drinking since August 18, 2010.
I don't consider that progress....but what I feel is progress is LIKING being a non-drinker, changing my patterns and mindset.
to repeat what everyone says here is that if nothing changes, nothing changes.... I have read a lot of your posts in F&F...your husband sounds like a selfish person and i think he is feeding you a line of crapola.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,910
What I am told is this:
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it" No, relapse is part of alcoholism. It is not part of recovery.
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress" No, it is not making progress to relapse. Period.
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses" Stopping cold turkey might be dangerous to some alcoholics, but again, relapse is not part of recovery.
Whether or not he is hearing this in AA or if he just thinks he is hearing this, it is painfully obvious that he is not taking his recovery seriously. I believe he is doing the bare minimum he has to and trying to convince you he is doing all he can. He isn't.
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it" No, relapse is part of alcoholism. It is not part of recovery.
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress" No, it is not making progress to relapse. Period.
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses" Stopping cold turkey might be dangerous to some alcoholics, but again, relapse is not part of recovery.
Whether or not he is hearing this in AA or if he just thinks he is hearing this, it is painfully obvious that he is not taking his recovery seriously. I believe he is doing the bare minimum he has to and trying to convince you he is doing all he can. He isn't.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Fandy 
I don't do AA so i don't know what they say to him in his group.
truthfully, I think your bull$**** meter should be on high alert....he is feeding you what he wants to hear about relapsing.
Oh it is on super duper double dare high alert and this nonsense he told me just made the alarm bells ring louder...
I originally stopped drinking 8-10 glasses of wine a night in Feb. 2010....in July I tried having a couple of glasses of wine with a dinner out in the company of friends. my drinking turned into a nightly pity party and in August I was JUST as ILL from drinking as if I had never stopped....I I decided to put the brakes on while I was sick as i could be physically with a hangover and have not been drinking since August 18, 2010.
I don't consider that progress....but what I feel is progress is LIKING being a non-drinker, changing my patterns and mindset.
That makes sense to me!
to repeat what everyone says here is that if nothing changes, nothing changes.... I have read a lot of your posts in F&F...your husband sounds like a selfish person and i think he is feeding you a line of crapola.
truthfully, I think your bull$**** meter should be on high alert....he is feeding you what he wants to hear about relapsing.
Oh it is on super duper double dare high alert and this nonsense he told me just made the alarm bells ring louder...
I originally stopped drinking 8-10 glasses of wine a night in Feb. 2010....in July I tried having a couple of glasses of wine with a dinner out in the company of friends. my drinking turned into a nightly pity party and in August I was JUST as ILL from drinking as if I had never stopped....I I decided to put the brakes on while I was sick as i could be physically with a hangover and have not been drinking since August 18, 2010.
I don't consider that progress....but what I feel is progress is LIKING being a non-drinker, changing my patterns and mindset.
That makes sense to me!
to repeat what everyone says here is that if nothing changes, nothing changes.... I have read a lot of your posts in F&F...your husband sounds like a selfish person and i think he is feeding you a line of crapola.
I think he is too (feeding me but most of all himself a lot of bs...). Lots is changing. I told him today we are done. I called a lawyer and am filing for divorce. I posted a long thing about it--
Thanks!
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,955
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
False. I think its more accurate to say: relapse can happen in recovery. Recovery would be for me the part where I'm actively working a recovery program. I know of no recovery program that includes relapse as part of the program.
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
False. I know of no research studies that would back up that claim. Some people will experience a relapse, but all the progress stops the moment one starts to drink again. Making progress is just that, progressively building more time living free from alcohol.
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
False. Although there is no hard data on how many people suddenly stop drinking alcohol and remain sober for the rest of their life, many do just that. However, for whatever reason, a good amount of people will have relapsed once or more in their recovery.
What I see is your HA is using rationalization to justify his drinking. It looks to me that he dose not want to stop drinking or at least trying to put it off for as long as he can.
False. I think its more accurate to say: relapse can happen in recovery. Recovery would be for me the part where I'm actively working a recovery program. I know of no recovery program that includes relapse as part of the program.
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
False. I know of no research studies that would back up that claim. Some people will experience a relapse, but all the progress stops the moment one starts to drink again. Making progress is just that, progressively building more time living free from alcohol.
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
False. Although there is no hard data on how many people suddenly stop drinking alcohol and remain sober for the rest of their life, many do just that. However, for whatever reason, a good amount of people will have relapsed once or more in their recovery.
What I see is your HA is using rationalization to justify his drinking. It looks to me that he dose not want to stop drinking or at least trying to put it off for as long as he can.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
What I am told is this:
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
True?
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
if you told him you are ready to quit, no wonder why he is feeding you such balony!! i am betting he is terrified...(of losing his lifestyle)....who will be his maid now? he will have to be an adult and take care of his own children if he gets visitation.
I know you will be happier to have some peace and re-group, return to a normal lifestyle.
I know you will be happier to have some peace and re-group, return to a normal lifestyle.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
I'm not trying to rationalize, justify etc... my AH's relapsing...
Opinions?
Opinions?
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2928230
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
returning to drinking is what he is doing.
or perhaps never has actually stopped.
No need to tack on any different names.
I'm glad you are removing yourself from the destruction.
or perhaps never has actually stopped.
No need to tack on any different names.
I'm glad you are removing yourself from the destruction.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: kansas
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
I'm not trying to rationalize, justify etc... my AH's relapsing...
I am trying to understand if my take on it is too "harsh" (and if it is then it is-- I am not changing my plan to leave him) or if the stuff I've heard him tell me for a while now (that he says he hears in AA) is real or lies?
What I am told is this:
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
This term was created by professionals who do not know how to treat addiction disease and it is their projection of their incompetence and tacit permission for their clients to keep coming back, it pays their bills.
This is not true Relapse is the OPPOSITE of Recovery.
Relapse happens when you stop treating the disease.
The disease starts treating you again.
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
Again, more of the same from the first reply. Some people relapse, but a relapse is not the same as a lapse. A lapse is early in recovery when the "horse that was led to water" is being made thirsty by the professional, and before the "horse that was led to water" begins drinking on their own, with very little coaching from the professional.
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
The most reasonable way to stop is cold turkey.
It is natural.
For instance on your last day of school, did you go back to the school the following day?
If you quit a job or were fired, did you return there the next day?
If you get pissed at the clerk at a certain store, do you go back there the next day?
If you get bitten by a dog, do you go pet him the next day?
Quitting cold turkey is the accepted standard of professionals who ply their trade with skill.
True?
I posted this on the al anon family board too but I was interested to hear what those who are living with addiction or recovery themselves think about this... If relapsing is to be expected then I guess I'd like to know so that I can have a bit more compassion for my AH than I do at the moment!
He is manipulating you into thinking that relapses are expected.
Opinions?
I am trying to understand if my take on it is too "harsh" (and if it is then it is-- I am not changing my plan to leave him) or if the stuff I've heard him tell me for a while now (that he says he hears in AA) is real or lies?
What I am told is this:
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
This term was created by professionals who do not know how to treat addiction disease and it is their projection of their incompetence and tacit permission for their clients to keep coming back, it pays their bills.
This is not true Relapse is the OPPOSITE of Recovery.
Relapse happens when you stop treating the disease.
The disease starts treating you again.
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
Again, more of the same from the first reply. Some people relapse, but a relapse is not the same as a lapse. A lapse is early in recovery when the "horse that was led to water" is being made thirsty by the professional, and before the "horse that was led to water" begins drinking on their own, with very little coaching from the professional.
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
The most reasonable way to stop is cold turkey.
It is natural.
For instance on your last day of school, did you go back to the school the following day?
If you quit a job or were fired, did you return there the next day?
If you get pissed at the clerk at a certain store, do you go back there the next day?
If you get bitten by a dog, do you go pet him the next day?
Quitting cold turkey is the accepted standard of professionals who ply their trade with skill.
True?
I posted this on the al anon family board too but I was interested to hear what those who are living with addiction or recovery themselves think about this... If relapsing is to be expected then I guess I'd like to know so that I can have a bit more compassion for my AH than I do at the moment!
He is manipulating you into thinking that relapses are expected.
Opinions?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Poconos PA
Posts: 1,544
It sounds to me like he has been planning this relapse. In my eyes, relapse is always a mistake in judgment that should be forgiven. If it was calculated and therefore not a mistake than it is an altogether entirely different situation.
I have never justified my relapses as something normal and common but rather a mistake in judgment. As a self admitted Alcoholic I know that I can never drink and when I do there is no rational excuse other than that I was planning to do it all along.
I have never justified my relapses as something normal and common but rather a mistake in judgment. As a self admitted Alcoholic I know that I can never drink and when I do there is no rational excuse other than that I was planning to do it all along.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: God's Grace
Posts: 2,464
Agree w/Fandy's response on the BS meter being on high alert. Although, sometimes it does take a few relapses for one to accept they are an alkie and ready to quit...I know I am one of them and am sober today.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
[QUOTE=wanttobehealthy;2943102]I'm not trying to rationalize, justify etc... my AH's relapsing...
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
Not true, at least not across the board. Sounds like someone trying to justify picking up alcohol.
I've been sober a long time and what I've come to realize is it's all a matter of choice. It was my choice to each day get drunk. It's my choice to not drink one day at a time. I may have a disease but I am always responsible for what I do, think and say. Nobody HAS to drink, they decide to.
"relapse is part of recovery-- everyone does it"
"it's common to have multiple relapses but as long as they lessen in severity that's making progress"
"it's unreasonable to think someone can just stop cold turkey without a few relapses"
Not true, at least not across the board. Sounds like someone trying to justify picking up alcohol.
I've been sober a long time and what I've come to realize is it's all a matter of choice. It was my choice to each day get drunk. It's my choice to not drink one day at a time. I may have a disease but I am always responsible for what I do, think and say. Nobody HAS to drink, they decide to.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Great Outdoors
Posts: 1,992
Some people relapse before actually picking up the drink. They toy with the idea they are in control due to X amount of days sober. It is in their mind long before they carry out the act. They don't change their lifestyle up..still hanging out with drinkers and at bars. Testing themselves with constant exposure to drinking related activities. I know someone like this..they just "can't" understand why they don't stick with sobriety.
Others go thru some self imposed hell with all the turmoil in their mind and don't actually plan on drinking again..they know they are headed to the liquor store but don't play out the whole scenario. They don't stop themselves from picking up that bottle. Then do the internal dialogue that they are suffering..just this one night..then I will get back with the program.
Then...there is one guy I know..got his 2nd DUI and checked himself into rehab. Thing is..he NEVER really wanted to stop drinking. He only went to rehab because it was better on his DUI sentence..This guy is going to kill himself or some innocent bystander... He makes me angry because he has been in several wrecks..not only drives but boats under the influence. And he is a brooder. Some are happy drunks..some are butt ugly mean drunks. This guy goes into a deep dark brood. He is the guy that gives you a heart attack because you are in a deep sleep and the phone rings at 3Am. Drunk and dial.
I was at a birthday party..and bullsh!tted myself into thinking I could just drink this one night (October 3rd) and I did it up. Made myself sick..I was lucky..I got back to sobriety and haven't looked back. I was one of the guys in the first example above..I am lucky in the way that I just can't handle alcohol any more. It makes me violently ill and after watching it kill off a few people around me I realized ANYONE including me could be next. I know I can't drink..it is a slow killer and age and duration don't seem to matter.
I agree with Vesna..anyone serious about sobriety knows it is life or death. Relapses are not taken lightly..I think your AH is blowing smoke !!!
Others go thru some self imposed hell with all the turmoil in their mind and don't actually plan on drinking again..they know they are headed to the liquor store but don't play out the whole scenario. They don't stop themselves from picking up that bottle. Then do the internal dialogue that they are suffering..just this one night..then I will get back with the program.
Then...there is one guy I know..got his 2nd DUI and checked himself into rehab. Thing is..he NEVER really wanted to stop drinking. He only went to rehab because it was better on his DUI sentence..This guy is going to kill himself or some innocent bystander... He makes me angry because he has been in several wrecks..not only drives but boats under the influence. And he is a brooder. Some are happy drunks..some are butt ugly mean drunks. This guy goes into a deep dark brood. He is the guy that gives you a heart attack because you are in a deep sleep and the phone rings at 3Am. Drunk and dial.
I was at a birthday party..and bullsh!tted myself into thinking I could just drink this one night (October 3rd) and I did it up. Made myself sick..I was lucky..I got back to sobriety and haven't looked back. I was one of the guys in the first example above..I am lucky in the way that I just can't handle alcohol any more. It makes me violently ill and after watching it kill off a few people around me I realized ANYONE including me could be next. I know I can't drink..it is a slow killer and age and duration don't seem to matter.
I agree with Vesna..anyone serious about sobriety knows it is life or death. Relapses are not taken lightly..I think your AH is blowing smoke !!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 426
I'm not a stranger to relapsing, especially of late, so you might want to take my words with a grain of salt. The first time I relapsed, it happened because I was caught off guard and made a snap decision to allow the wrong reflex - in the aftermath, I was completely shocked and ashamed. Each subsequent time tho, there was at least a notion, if not an expectation, of picking up before I actually did. It had been framed in my mind as bound to happen, so I didn't put forth a worthy effort to resist, and just sort of rolled with it as the path of least resistance. And the severity was just where I left it, not lessened a bit. The point I am trying to make is that operating with the belief that relapsing is expected seems to me to ensure that relapsing will occur. Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy type deal with justification upfront.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
