Bradley004

Patsy, thanks for sharing. I have never been offered an anti -depressent but am sure if I went to a doctor today they would suggest this...basically just like you said. Because they can.

I have no doubt they make one feel better. Don W. ...you said you were angry and short tempered...wow..it sounds great to take a pill during these times and get happy. That is what I did with that herb. It took the edge off hunger, gave me energy..looking back it is the same as cocaine. Yet it was completely natural.

I was a mess on that pill. From what I read you do have withdrwawals...that is WHY there was anger, frustration. I feel the same way coming off alchohol.

I respect everyone that has gone years and years and believe the anti-depressents work. No doubt. But for me personally I want to challenge myself more through those periods of irritabiltiy..I hate withdrawals of any kind which to me is a result of a pill or whatever.

So I guess it is personal. My conscience with God says rely on Him. This is what I have learned through alchohol and is exactly what this board is about...dealing with the negative feelings. Hense why a pill is not an option.

I am not a doctor but still need more info on the concept of chemical inbalance. Food, stress, your spiritual walk with God to me are a direct impact to my "well being". God says to come to Him in these times. He also says that we WILL experience trials/errors..that is when we hold true to faith. I think AA is a way of putting your faith to action. May not be Christian based but certainly Christian blue print. Love, give, share, comfort, keep you mind on good...SEEK GOD.

phoenix

Anti depressants have come a long way.Most that are now in use are not instant feel good pills.It takes anywhere from a few days to a few weeks to reach an effective level in the system.


It's great to rely on God.But lets not single out people with depression and say that they alone should deny themselves medical treatment.If it were a heart condition, not many would tell you to stay away from doctors and trust God to cure it.



phoenix

Bradley004

Phoenix, thanks for your notes. I have to be careful how I type..lol. I did not mean to come across singling out anybody or telling anyone what they should or should not do. I am simply opening up the concept of using anti-depressents, even the concept of "physical" needs vs. "mental" needs to the board in terms of overcoming. As stated, I agree many on this board believe in depression as a physical disease that requires medication. I believe in some cases it is but not in all. In fact, I am still struggling "personally"..and again "personally" on the whole concept of depression being a physical unbalance requiring a drug. I challenge this for myself and am not convinced..not that you or anyone using drug therapy prescribed by an MD is wrong but that I (for now) am not convinced depression is a disease in the sense of PHYSICAL inbalance like an allergy.

Now, for me alchohol is a disease of the MIND in terms of filling a void,,,getting by, quick fix...and for many, many people just a "feel good" that becomes a focus for life. To live is to FEEL GOOD.

Depression and/or anxiousness drove me to alchohol not being happy w/myself, social intimidations, blah, blah.....but again..to me my depression is a state of my mind (for me) and (for me) requires retraining of my thinking......Or better stated MY FOCUS/PURPOSE IN LIFE which ultimately defines how I live and handle life.

This is what happened for food with me therefore I can only rely on my own experiences and learn from it. But alas, I still question.. challenge...I ask God too. Reading this board I wonder if anti-depressents is not a tool I could benefit from to help my pain. But I am not against life, I have joy, hope, love my life. So maybe I am just not depressed "clinicallly" like others. But I also know that certain conditions trigger depression so simply challenge our addictions.....to question and try out our trust in God when we go through tough feelings times..to give it time in him w/our mind. Like Patsy did. I agree, sometimes we just either can't or don't want too therefore help is req'd. In many ways I used Alchohol to help me and it did. Got me through eating situations where I was centered on food and alchohol took my focus off food to feeling comfortable (feeling fulfilled, not hungary), un-inhibited in social situations which ultimately helped me in eating situations. I guess you can say it helped me focus....lol. Kinda like what anti-depressents do...correct????

But in the end it just diverted another issue...me wanting a quick fix. But looking back..don't see how I could have done it differently. My mind was consumed. Perhaps that is the difference here. I have grown...not w/out painful processes...to accept my choices, experiences. I have given up the obsession with food and can honestly say I am now in a position to give up the alchhol. Anti-depressents could help even more now..but how is that different than when I chose alchohol as my "anti-depressent". It too is a drug. For me..it would be just another reason to have another withdrawal to have to come to terms with. That's all. But isn't that a HUGE "tha't's all"?

If I get to the point with coming to God..and still struggling,...I may just reach out for that medical "gift". For now..just not sure it's the right thing.

I can't escape alchohol. It is accepted by society, practically everywhere I go..restaraunts, sport events, social, even work. I find training my mind not to focus on that and on what really is my issue is to WHY I think I need it..ususally that discovery is my healing. Diverting my focus to God and His purpose takes my focus off alchohol and even myself. Kind of like AA's philospophy of working the 12 steps. Taking your focus off yourself ..walla, you are working sobriety. Have you ever been consumed with a news program and realized later..wow...I didn't think about alchohol all day. How wonderful to just keep our focus on other things. wE need a purpose. Working the 12 steps..to me is the same way God tells us to work for Him. It benefits us by loving HIm and helping others. ....Still remaining open to not make this harder for me than I have too....lol...hense my questions on drug therapy.

phoenix

So what you are actually questioning is whether or not clinical depression exists as a disease? But you have not been diagnosed with it,nor offered any sort of treatment for it?I guess I am not clear then on why you are challenging it for yourself.If you don't have depression it's unlikely that you would benefit from treatment for it.

I truly hope you never experience depression as I have.As I said before,it has nothing to do with events or issues.It simply is a result of the fact that apparently using drugs such as cocaine damaged my brain chemistry.I had hoped that at some point I would recover from this damage,but so far this has not been the case.

And so I work my program,rely on God,and follow my doctor's instructions.I have learned to think of it as no different than managing blood pressure,blood sugar,or any other medical condition.The fact that it is my brain rather than another organ that is being treated is just part of my medical history.

phoenix

PianoGirl

IMHO Bradley, why try to challenge something we have absolutely no training in? I think it's best to just leave questioning the nature of science and medicine to the people that know how to do it: MEDICAL DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS.

I have taken herbs myself, but, I would much rather take a drug approved by the FDA, than to take an off the wall herbal remedy found at the local drug store. Doctors have not done nearly as much research into herbs and the like, and therefore you are more likely to get a reaction from them, than from a prescribed antidepressant that's been put through drug trial.

I have a strong religious core, and rely on God for strength to make it through each day, but God expects us to take care of our health matters too. He doesn't always just send miraculous answers from heaven to fall in our laps. And the fact we take a medicine for depression doesn't mean we're not relying on God enough. Biblically speaking, I mean, look at how much Job went through, and even though he put faith in god and God was with him throughout the whole tyring ordeal, he still suffered from lots of depression, so much so that he said he wanted to die. It wasn't just a matter of him changing his thinking on life. It's like that with us sometimes, we get that far down, and so there is nothing wrong with getting help for it.

Let's face it, we can sit around and second guess every disease and disorder known to mankind, but in the end, it's not gonna do any good. All we can do is to find something that works. I don't know many people that suffer from major depression or anxiety that can get by without taking something, but if you can, then I say GREAT. Whatever works!



PG

panadolsandwich

Hey Bradley, anti-depressants definitaly help ppl. My own brother has no desire to drink alcohol or take drugs, but suffers depression.

I was extremely worried, for a while. The only time he wasn't suicidal was when I was able to accompany him. I had to take time off work, and after about two months he was ok - when the anti-depressants started to kick in.

Please without them a lot of people wouldn't be around today. I'm sure of that.

Please ppl don't be scared of anti-depressants - they do help if you need it.

Mark.

Patsyd1

"She also told me that one of the other women she asked to sponsor her told her, "You CAN't claim to be sober and still take those, so go back to your doctor and tell him you are a recovering alcoholic" WHAATTT???????"


Hi all,

I didn't begin reading from the beginning of this thread when I posted my share.

The above is so frightening to read. To think that anyone would tell anyone here in the halls that if they take medication, then they can't be sober....... that is a frightening thing.

I am not sure where this came from with one alcoholic telling another anything about their meds, but yes I have seen it and heard it in the halls of AA. We are alcoholics, and telling another drunk that they are not sober if they continue to take a medication is dangerous at minimum, and absolutely deadly at its worst.

In our home group we had someone who was relatively new (6 months sober) listening to some who thought they had the right, the knowledge or qualifications to be "telling" others that if they were taking anything at all by way of medication.....then they couldn't claim sobriety.

This one person took this very seriously......and he stopped his anti-depressant medication on his own, without notifying his Doctor, or notifying anyone at all........... except for the person who was telling him to "get off the med" if he wanted to claim sobriety.

This person killed himself within 2 weeks of stopping his medication. Many AA members went to this persons wake and funeral...... the one who gave out the deadly advice, was nowhere to be seen.

Who is taking medication and why is NONE of our business here in the halls of AA..... why? Because that ISN'T what we DO here in the halls of AA. After this gentleman took his life, we at our home group decided to step in whenever someone was handing out medical advice, or any kind of advice such as marriage counseling, social work, or legal advice.

When I hear someone giving out medical advice, I simply state the truth....... That is NOT what we do here in the halls of AA, if you need medical advice or any other kind of advice.... then call the professional in that field. WE are alcoholics, and we have a solution for alcoholism....... and its one alcoholic helping another to stay sober for one day.

That is the saddest thing to witness is someone who actually listened to and took another AA members unqualified, and medically unlicensed personal opinion, thinking that this person who was sober a few years KNEW, when the reality is that this person knew nothing, and was passing that false information on to others.........and someone believed them enough and it resulted in his death.

Today, I simply state the truth when I hear this kind of dangerous and deadly advice being given out to anyone by anyone here in the halls of AA. This is NOT what we do here in the halls of AA.
There are many many things today that are none of my business for sure.......but listening to unqualified, unlicensed medical advice being given out at an AA meeting...... is not one of them.

Bradley, this is what I would suggest. Call your own doctor, or call any doctor, make an appointment to be seen by a medically qualified, licensed Doctor who has the ability to answer any of your questions regarding any kind of medication. Everyone is different, and being seen by a professional Doctor is the only safe and rational thing to do when it comes to one's health.....whether its mental health, or physical health. That is the responsible, sane, and rational thing to do in one's own life when it comes to one's own medical care.

We wouldn't go to a plumber and ask him for advice about a toothache........ why would we think that its ok to go to an AA member or a recovering drunk.... and ask for advice about mental or physical health medications?

We do one thing here in the halls of AA......and thats to share our own experience, strength and hope with another alcoholic so that we may stay sober, and help others to achieve sobriety.

Love
Patsy

AvieG

This topic is getting better and better, what brilliant responses we have had. I am learning all the time!!! Thanx again Brad, for starting this one off.

Patsy, it IS something heard over and over in AA rooms, and something which REALLY rattles MY cage, hearing someone tell a newcomer 'Get off the tablets'

I also experienced a VERY tragic death of a new member, who was a paranoid schizophrenic, psychotic, diagnosed as bi-polar (on quite a few meds) AND alcoholic, who listened to an AA member telling him to quit the meds or he couldn't get sober!!!!

He quit his meds, then we got word that the poor guy had spray-painted his house and car, stripped off his clothes, then thrown himself off a high-rise tower block to his death!!!! The poor sod only came to AA to get help to stop DRINKING!!! NOT to be diagnosed by another member who knows Jack Schitt about mental illness!!!

Like you, it really makes MY blood boil when I hear this happening again and again in AA.

The AA 12-step programme will NOT work on true mental illness!!!

Bradley004

Pianogirl and Phx., what I ment by challenging myself is determining FOR MYSELF if the option of using an MD's prescription is best for me OR am I running to another "quick fix"....I do look to the medical field to determine this as well as people such as yourself (lay people) that have been using the stuff. Some doctors have never taken the stuff. It is wise to contact the "references"...LOL!

I never said I did not have depression but who doesn't? What I said was that I am not sure if my depression justified another drug? What defines "clinically" depressed?

Challenging is a good thing and yes I do question the medical field as I want to understand how one comes up with brain inbalance? Unless you have a brain tumor, severe defiencieny that comes up in a blood test and/or some other test I just don't buy the neurostrasmitter stuff.

Kinda like all those products on the shoppers channel claiming izone, neuro anti-oxident, chemical hoopla which in all honesty is a large can of hot air - !

The concept and approach to not turn to a drug when one is emotionally in turmoil is my point. Period. If you are one that truly believes you have a physical ailment than by all means do what ya got to do.

The purpose of this thread was that I found a lot of posts from prior threads alittle disturbing that they have no problem sharing at length the battles of the mind, conscience, spirit of learing to not relieve their issues with alchohol but have no problem trading off one anti-depreseent for another, sleeping pills and the what not? Just seemed counter productive.

I never accused and/or referred or even insinuated that someone on these should stop? But what is wrong with challenging yourself for the reason you take them, etc. I read the side effects of dry mouth, sexual side effects, sleepnessness and that concerns me... why have more to withdrawal from? However I agree, I run to that advil bottle when I have a headache...so I see the point of it it helps. However I take seriously anything I use on a regular basis to handle "emotions".

The net/net is I don't agree depression is a chemical anything and was reaching out for someone to convince me from their experience. Still have not recieved anything but what was told to them. I agree a medical person needs to explain but as of right now..haven't found one that can. I think it is our state of how we approach life. And nowhere in the Bible that I read is life withouth depression.

I just read this morning Paul (New Testament) went hungary, was exposed to the elements, put in prison, SLEEPLESS nights, had enemies all around him..even other Christians were letting him down...if that wasn't bad enough he prayed to God three times for God to remove the "thorn" from his side? Noone knows what this was but it is believed to be some sort of humbling issue...physical problem, mental or whatever that Paul went on to discribe kept him "humble". So I truly believe he was depressed at times. But in 2 Corinitions Paul states that through all of this He learned that God's strength was perfected in his weakness.

Now I know not everyone is a Christian...and even being Christian we can hear these wonderful promises (that ya don't have to freak if you have problems...)..still if we are not at that point of truly accepting God's word..can still be hard.

Just saying that we should all not be too quick to "feel good". And for what it is worth it is encouraging for those of you that do believe and testify the anti-depressents work...therefore, if I ever get bad enough I'll be the first in line..LOL

panadolsandwich

Hi Bradley, Depression is a very serious medical problem. It's not a case of taking a pill and 'feeling good'. And is completely different from drug addiction. No offence, but you wouldn't post what you have if you had actually experienced depression.

In fact it's a huge problem in society. Many people think they should just 'snap out of it'. They don't understand what the person is experiencing, and 'project' their own feelings of what I feel is contempt.

Someone who doesn't suffer it says 'Why does so and so feel so sorry for themself? Why don't they get a grip - I've got problems too you know'.

And that is agonising for someone who suffers depression hearing that. If anything I think ppl with alcohol problems are better catered for - you can share your experiences and knowledge with other ppl. But for someone who suffers depression, a lot of the time society and ppl in general just don't understand what it is like. Believe me it's not about feeling good. Their holy grail is to feel NORMAL.

Please I'm worried someone might read this thread and feel it's wrong to take medication to help with depression. Again, talk to a doctor you trust.

Sorry but I feel so strongly about this because I nearly lost my brother to depression, and medical help saved him - as well as me. Let this thread mean something. Do NOT take medical advise from anyone but a qualified doctor. And please don't give medical advise to anyone. I think it's okay to suggest, but perhaps we should always carry the disclaimer that we are not qualified.

Patsyd1

Hi Bradley,

"I never said I did not have depression but who doesn't? What I said was that I am not sure if my depression justified another drug? What defines "clinically" depressed?

Challenging is a good thing and yes I do question the medical field as I want to understand how one comes up with brain inbalance? Unless you have a brain tumor, severe defiencieny that comes up in a blood test and/or some other test I just don't buy the neurostrasmitter stuff."


Bradley.... allow me to clarify something..... WE are not here to prove or disprove anything to you.

What defines "Clinically" depressed? Call your local mental health services...... they will explain it in detail to you.

You just do not buy the neurotransmitter stuff? Well Bradley it happens to be a scientific proven fact. Now whether you buy it or not is not of interest to me. Do you know why? Because I am a grateful recovering alcoholic, and I can share my own experience, strength and hope with you......... but please, do not believe for one minute that we are here to do research for YOU.

If you want answers, if you want research....... that would be a responsibility that belongs to you.

There are many people who NEED to take medications of all kind in this life, and I am not here to find out from them, if its something that I might need based on how the medication is effecting them. See, its a scientific proven fact also that everyone's bodily system reacts differently with different medications. So if you have questions regarding clinical depression, or if you have questions regarding how a particular medication will effect you? Then lets keep this real real simple........... Make a phone call for an appt. to be evaluated. While you are there ask the Doctor to explain to you about neurotransmitters, clinical depression, whether anti-depressants put someone in a happy mood, or any other questions that you have.

See I am not interested in whether you believe or disbelieve, or what your opinion is about neurotransmitters...... because WE are not here to educate you in what is best for your mental or physical health. WE are here to help one another to stay sober one day at a time.

If the tone of this reply sounds alittle harsh.......well that would be because WE have all shared as much as WE are qualified to.......our own experience, strength and hope.

There are some wonderful people who have taken the time to share their own experience with you regarding anti-depressants. Its THEIR experience and I can't speak for them, but I can share with you that I am not interested in whether you BUY what they are sharing with you about their own experience or what clinical depression is, or how neurotransmitters are involved. Because we are not here to SELL YOU anything at all.

Bradley......... the best place to get information and become educated regarding clinical depression, neurotransmitters or how any medication will effect you..... is at your Doctors Office.


Love to you Bradley,
Patsy

phoenix

I do think you need to educate yourself before you go any further.Alcohol is NOT an antidepressant...quite the opposite.

You say you are only challenging yourself,but that doesn't seem to be the case.By your tone and many of your comments,you are challenging the medical experts and the people who have experience with depression as an illness.And to what purpose? To continue the stigma connected with mental disorders? That's kind of ironic coming from an alcoholic..

The purpose of this forum is to share experience,strength and hope with each other.Lets stick to that...k?

FYI...taking medication for depression does NOT prevent me from experiencing the full range of human emotion.I feel pain,I feel sorrow,I feel loss,and anger and all the rest.When my friend and sponsor died recently it broke my heart.My medication did not dull that pain in the slightest.I cried at her funeral like anyone else.

What an antidepressant does is to restore the balance so that I am not consumed by black despair for no reason at all.It does not solve problems or deal with emotions for me.I am able to do those things myself,as long as I take care of my condition.

I am honest with my doctor and careful about what I take.I gave birth to a child with not so much as a Tylenol to ease the pain.Most every alcoholic in recovery knows that we have to be honest and careful.But we also know that we don't have to endure needless suffering from untreated illness.

If you choose not to believe that depression exists as an illness,by all means go ahead.Many people still believe the world is flat,but it doesn't change reality

phoenix

Bradley004

Patsy, I am not posting to a committee but to whoever feels like posting - non-predjudice. AA or not. No harshness intended but if your not into the discussion, don't post.

Pandal, I guess any thread could inspire someone to drink especially since newbies in trouble post about there slips trials/errors. Should we have a disclaimer for that? But I hear what you are saying. I think this thread is done.. sorry Patsy for ruffling your feathers.

Pandal, ..you are so right about the point of those that don't truly understand can act in contempt and if I am doing that I apologize. Kinda like a person without a problem drinking trying to tell some one like me to just "drink responsibly". But truthfully the net is that is what it takes..for me its abstinence. Ok,,,I'm done.

Thank you everyone...it is a personal thing. Whatever works!!!!!!

YOU ALL ROCK!

Bradley004

Phx.. for what it is worth I have drove everyone today crazy on this topic (my boyfriend just went upstairs)...hahahahaha.. I have an open mind...just when I am confused I beat a dead horse until I understand. Thanks for your patience. I believe depression to me is like alcholism to a non-alchohlic. I believe you..and thank you for enlightening me.

panadolsandwich

With all respect, reading posts about slips and trials with giving alcohol up, to me any how is inspiring. It gives me faith I'm not alone, and friends that can help each other through our problems. I know what you mean; one time I tried giving up and it only took an alcohol advertisment on a bus to inspire me to drink again. But looking back on that experience - I wasn't ready to give up.

I'm ready now. I've looked back on my life and regretted a lot of things. I look back and see glimmers of what is good about myself, something I've been slowly suffocating over these years. I know I'll be OK. But it has to be NOW.

Patsyd1

Hi ya Bradley,

My feathers weren't ruffled

What I was sharing I believe is pretty simple.

This is not about Bradley's opinion, its about getting the correct information regarding what questions you have. That information will not come to you from this discussion, except through those who can share their experience.

With all due respect Bradley, if you are truely looking for information about depression, medications, the side effects, or anything else regarding meds.... clinical or otherwise, well for the sake of repeating myself.......... Call your Doctor

That is what you are looking for correct? Information that only your own Doctor can provide for you, in your particular case, because we are all alcoholics for sure, but we are quite different when it comes to our individual medical needs.

Love
Patsy

Bradley004

Received. Thanks.

docdave

Bradley...I was going to respond to your post on saturday but thought I'd wait and see others post first...so this AM I printed out the replies and got 17 pages of wonderful thoughts on your questions...PianoGirl is right when she states, "there are always organic reasons for psychiatric diseases." Yet I've seen so many cases of psychiatric diseases created by the effects that drugs and alcohol have on brain neurotransmitter production and function...we cannot assume that somehow, after years of abusing these substances, that what we have now is a sign of a true psychiatric disease...true psychiatric diseases typically come on early in life and are genetically based...In the book--Search for Serenity (by Presnall, or Presnell) he states, "we are all mentally ill when we are using and for sometime after"...Depression is a symptom just as chest pain may be a symptom of heart disease...the disease maybe centered in the genetics of the individual, the emotional state or the spiritual disconnection we all feel when we start this journey...yet the depression is real and the depression is organic...what happens to the person in the emotional recovery and the overwhelming nature of starting to feel again--seeing one's truth--is a very depressing event for most of us...these emotions...guilt, stress, anxiety, etc EFFECT brain neurochemistry also...after all how do we deal with stress and anxiety depends on neurochemistry and other hormones in the human system. That being said, I will say that for at least alcoholism there have been some interesting studies done...In one the compared the sons of alcoholics (sons were non-drinkers at the date of the study) versus sons of non-alcoholics and found that a high percentage of the sons of alcoholics had depressed brain waves in certains parts of the brain...I suspect that this true for most drug addicts also although I've never seen another study that confirms this...anyway the son of an alcoholic is meandering through life--takes a drink--and whoa--feels "normal"...because small amounts of alcohol increase the production of dopamine and other neurotranmitters...mind altering substances then become the panacea--the fix--the perfect medicine...although most of us don't think of it in these terms...unfortunatly, the more we do...the longer we do it...the more we change--profoundly--the way our neurons function...in fact studies now show that depending on what we do, how long we do it, and how much we do...are dependent factors on how dramatically these changes are..."drugs and alcohol profoundly change brain neurochemistry at the DNA level"...Dna is the blueprint on how things work in the body...It is the master plan...when the environment changes (intake of drugs and alcohol) it starts changing to maintain some sense of equilibrium...you have no Mental control over this...studies have shown that it typically takes 6 months to 2 years for your system to come back to normal--what ever that is for you...You may have started with abnormal function at the brain neurochemistry level--but in the ensuing years of doing mind-altering chemicals we make the situation worse...profound depression and anxiety are normal parts of recovery...whether you chose to utilize anti-depressants or other drugs to cope with these changes is an individual choice...but it is wise to do research and ask questions about these chemical choices before you start...I have cancer patients that come to me and want to do "naturopathic-holistic approaches only"...the question I first ask is--have you researched what standard medicine has to offer...I insist that they do so before they make their final decision on treatment...why would it be any different for us?...go look up Prozac, celexa, paxil in the Physician desk reference...what is the mechanism of action of these drugs...I can tell you now that for most Psychiatric drugs you will commonly see this statement---the mechanism of action is unknown--but thought to be--or suspected to be--Why is this?...because one cannot sacrifice (kill) a human being like a rat...disect the brain and see where the serotonin is...This dosn't mean that Prozac may not be the drug of choice and work wonderfully in some of us...another study done just recently--some 4-5000people studied over time that were on psychotropics---conclusion--85% probably didn't need them--remember it's much cheaper to give someone a drug then to furnish them with good quality counseling three times a week...Read the book Toxic Psychiatry--by Peter Breggin--he is a psychiatrist...educate your self...it is sad that we live in a culture that willing accepts anything doctors throw at us...but in defense when was the last time they ever spent anytime explaining things like healing...antidepressents work on the symptom of the disease--not the disease...The general rule is this...if you feel like you are definitely in danger of hurting self or others go get what it takes to stabilize...if anti-depressants, or other psychotropics are the best thing that happened to you and you can maintain your sobriety off other drugs and alcohol...do em...but if you are like many that I see...they complain of flat emotions...after all what do these drugs do...antidepressants don't increase the amount of neurotransmitters...they keep them out in areas where they stay active longer...if we want to increase production of neurotransmitters than we have to do something different...good quality nutrition, excercise, and even journaling on a daily basis have been shown to increase neurotransmitter production...and while alcoholism has been included in what is now called part of the "low serotonin syndrome"...then increased production seems to be part of the key to increased mental health...if you're not excercising, eating crappy, smoking, drinking to much coffee, eating to much sugar...there is little hope to increase these neurotransmitters...Bill W...often asked his medical doctor friends to address the mental fuzziness most of us suffer from even after a year of sobriety...we invented prozac...Biochemical balance is only restored by addressing the body-mind-spirit level of our addiction...that balance may be skewed to begin with...but how the heck would we know for the first 3-6 months...Pychotropics do not restore balance--they treat symptoms of diseases so that we can gather up enough energy to maintain the road to recovery...If the signs and symptoms of our normal functioning process continues to push us into chronic depression and suicidal thoughts and psychotropics give us some quality of life then thank god they are available...It is often hard in the first few months of recovery to even remember what our normal functioning process was--or even if we knew--When we first start everything is overwhelming...depression and anxiety are normal events...I remember talking to an old timer when I started the program...I was out of my mind with depression, lack of sleep, anger...etc...he told me this statement," when I was on the drugs and alcohol...I was diagnosed with major recurrent depression..treated for a while, the rediagnosed with schizophrenia...treated for a while and rediagnosed with bipolar disease...treated for a while...tried to get sober and was rediagnosed with major depression...but when I stuck around the program for a couple of years all that went away"....educate yourself...dr dave

Bradley004

Quote...."If the signs and symptoms of our normal functioning process continues to push us into chronic depression and suicidal thoughts and psychotropics give us some quality of life then thank god they are available.." Unquote

Correct. All I was stating from the get go is educate yourself before running to Prozac.

I think one thing is clear that there is a fine line here with recovery to addictions. Alchoholics tend to spend their lives avoiding their feelings so we all need to be educated and way the risks before using things to help with our emotions no different than those who choose Meds way the risks going off them.

Patsyd1

Woooooo Wooooooo
Now thats some fine educating

Thank you Dr. Dave