Anti-Depressent?
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"Attraction Rather than Promotion" meant that I was to carry the message of AA only to those that expressed a desire to want what I have
Last edited by PianoGirl; 11-15-2003 at 07:43 PM.
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
"Attraction Rather than Promotion" meant that I was to carry the message of AA only to those that expressed a desire to want what I have
I am not sure where anyone got the idea that anyone was giving advice about what program that anyone "should" use or which one is the right program for anyone. Sharing my own experience, strength and hope with anyone, is just that, my ES&H and doesn't include telling anyone what program they should or shouldn't use.
Yes there are many programs out there, and the choice is an individual one..... but the program being quoted above, regarding carrying the message of AA......is Alcoholics Anonymous.
Love
Patsy
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Location: A van...down by the river!
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Thanks Patsy
Yes, I knew where that quote came from.
I wasn't talking about anyone on this board reccomending anything regarding AA or anything else. I was just stating that IN GENERAL I have found it easier for myself, to not reccomend programs of sobriety to others unless they ask. I wasn't stating that anyone had done this. This was just in relation to what Jon said about being preachy about AA to others, and how that can be a turnoff sometimes.
Nothing meant towards you, or anyone else.
Yes, I knew where that quote came from.
I wasn't talking about anyone on this board reccomending anything regarding AA or anything else. I was just stating that IN GENERAL I have found it easier for myself, to not reccomend programs of sobriety to others unless they ask. I wasn't stating that anyone had done this. This was just in relation to what Jon said about being preachy about AA to others, and how that can be a turnoff sometimes.
Nothing meant towards you, or anyone else.
Last edited by PianoGirl; 11-15-2003 at 10:10 PM.
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Hi Pianogirl,
Yup, you are correct. Perhaps I took this one personal.
I apologize if my attitude in my post seemed alittle off....... the reason it sounded that way is because I was off lol
Thanks for your post Pianogirl,
Love
Patsy
Yup, you are correct. Perhaps I took this one personal.
I apologize if my attitude in my post seemed alittle off....... the reason it sounded that way is because I was off
lolThanks for your post Pianogirl,
Love
Patsy
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
Originally posted by Patsyd1
Attraction rather than promotion, can take many forms.....And at the risk of sounding preachy.... "carrying the message of AA ONLY to those who express a desire to want what I have".... is just not one of them.
Attraction rather than promotion, can take many forms.....And at the risk of sounding preachy.... "carrying the message of AA ONLY to those who express a desire to want what I have".... is just not one of them.
It is simply not in our job description to push the message onto ANYONE that has not expressed a desire to hear it
They do not have to have a desire to want what I have or what you have Jon, we are just not that important.
A desire to stop drinking is the only requirement for membership here in the halls of AA.
Many come through those doors of AA not wanting what WE have....
I Am Responsible...
When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of A.A. always to be there. And for that: I am responsible.
Declaration of 30th Anniversary
International Convention, 1965
When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of A.A. always to be there. And for that: I am responsible.
Declaration of 30th Anniversary
International Convention, 1965
But when I assume that someone reaching out for help on a message board automatically needs to be told to go to a meeting when many don't even know what a meeting IS, is presumptuous at best, self-serving and egotistical at worst.
"Hi, I'm new here and I think I need to quit drinking"
"Great! Go to a meeting, get a sponsor, and work the steps..."
"But I tried AA and it didn't work for me."
"Well, you must not be done yet."
"But I am done!"
"Then try it again"
"But I dont want too!!!!"
"Then I guess you don't really want to be sober"
"But I do!!!!!"
"Great, go to another meeting...Hello? Hello? You still there? Hello? Hmmmm...guess they just weren't ready yet."
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Hey Jon........ in light of the circumstances that I personally witnessed......... I find your reply........humorous.
Just because you seem to believe its ok to accuse someone of pushing AA on people, just doesn't make it so.
If you read, I am sharing my own experience, strength and hope with others. The chat room is for that purpose. We share what we have to give away........ whether the big cahuna STOPS the entire chat to being it back to what they "think" it should be about.
I find it funny that you didn't seem to mind my sharing my own ES&H before you pm'd me with a vulgar accusation of those in the room. Now, it could be just me, but there is nothing in AA, therapy, or group counseling that I am aware of that allows us to believe that we can run the show anywhere with vulgarity, and accusations of newcomers.
Now, correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that controlling the chat room so that others DO NOT GET to share what it is that they are looking for, because the chat "controller" STOPPED the entire chat to get his own way....... well, thats not about recovery where I come from. Perhaps being owner gives you certain preferences over the chat room, if one is inclined........and that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to control newcomers so that they hear only what YOU want them to hear.
So...... yes I share my own ES&H when it comes to my recovery in AA. If that is not good enough for you or what you want to control.........well that would be your problem and not mine.
Just please remove my name from the chairing position here, I have never been to any meeting in which I was TOLD what I could share and what I couldn't...... regarding my own ES&H.
Take care Jon,
Patsy
Just because you seem to believe its ok to accuse someone of pushing AA on people, just doesn't make it so.
If you read, I am sharing my own experience, strength and hope with others. The chat room is for that purpose. We share what we have to give away........ whether the big cahuna STOPS the entire chat to being it back to what they "think" it should be about.
I find it funny that you didn't seem to mind my sharing my own ES&H before you pm'd me with a vulgar accusation of those in the room. Now, it could be just me, but there is nothing in AA, therapy, or group counseling that I am aware of that allows us to believe that we can run the show anywhere with vulgarity, and accusations of newcomers.
Now, correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that controlling the chat room so that others DO NOT GET to share what it is that they are looking for, because the chat "controller" STOPPED the entire chat to get his own way....... well, thats not about recovery where I come from. Perhaps being owner gives you certain preferences over the chat room, if one is inclined........and that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to control newcomers so that they hear only what YOU want them to hear.
So...... yes I share my own ES&H when it comes to my recovery in AA. If that is not good enough for you or what you want to control.........well that would be your problem and not mine.
Just please remove my name from the chairing position here, I have never been to any meeting in which I was TOLD what I could share and what I couldn't...... regarding my own ES&H.
Take care Jon,
Patsy
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 1
Hi All,
My name is Emma and I am new to this web site, I found it a gift that I found this area on anti depressants. I for the past 10 years I have been on anti depressants (I am 25 y.o now) for "panic attacks".
Ironically I never saw the connection - or should I say didn't wish to see the connection between my alcholism and my anxiety or panic attacks. You see, my panic attacks started about the same time as I started binge drinking as a teenager.
After taking the medication for about 3 months I told my doctor that if I had a drink with the tablets I would black out and not remember what I did - his response was "Well you are a cheap date then". I wish I could have seen what alcohol was doing to me from the start.
In the weeks before I had my last drink I started cutting back my dose of anti depressants - I have tried to go cold turkey before -DO NOT DO THIS!!! Now, at 4 weeks sober I am off the medication and feeling okay. I still get headache and slight mood swings, I am very emotional - but I know with my AA fellowship I can get through all these lifestyle changes - one day at a time!!
Love to you all,
Emmaq
My name is Emma and I am new to this web site, I found it a gift that I found this area on anti depressants. I for the past 10 years I have been on anti depressants (I am 25 y.o now) for "panic attacks".
Ironically I never saw the connection - or should I say didn't wish to see the connection between my alcholism and my anxiety or panic attacks. You see, my panic attacks started about the same time as I started binge drinking as a teenager.
After taking the medication for about 3 months I told my doctor that if I had a drink with the tablets I would black out and not remember what I did - his response was "Well you are a cheap date then". I wish I could have seen what alcohol was doing to me from the start.
In the weeks before I had my last drink I started cutting back my dose of anti depressants - I have tried to go cold turkey before -DO NOT DO THIS!!! Now, at 4 weeks sober I am off the medication and feeling okay. I still get headache and slight mood swings, I am very emotional - but I know with my AA fellowship I can get through all these lifestyle changes - one day at a time!!
Love to you all,
Emmaq
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florham Park, nj
Posts: 85
Hi Emma, I am glad you found good in this thread. I was beginning to wonder towards the end...lol. Truth is there are several that have posted that have found strength in this thread..me included.
Jon, well said regarding belief in God all method(s) have His hand.
The 12 steps to me is no different than working Gods steps w/out acknowledging who "God" is (higher power is too general for me)....however admitting the need for God, honesty, sharing... it's still good as it is pointing people in the right direction and helping them see first hand how living openly, honestly..giving to others helps you. To me God is personal, living and does have a name.. and is there for more than "alchohol". But regardless, AA is a good approach..hense why it works for so many.
Patsy, in all honesty I truly appreciate your "sharing" but your posts can come across as "robot" (ie. Repeating "verbatum" the "ESH" approach as if we didn't get it the first time). Isn't that what we all are doing?
Now, I know I ramble and can be a "turn off" to some (lol) so not attacking you. **Just an observation. I personally find it counter productive to refer oneself as a "drunk". That to me is not healing in the least to me. But to each his own I guess.
W/regard to meds...I disagree with you on you shouldn't question and/or seek advice to lay people on their experiences on meds prescribed by doctors. IMHO It is not a negative or irresponsible. "Prescription" drugs are issued through doctors so ultimately I need to go through a doctor should I choose to go that route. But seeing how certain drugs effect others can bring up GOOD, SANE questions for my doctor and can help me understand by reviewing others responses if it is something I want to pursue. I have read many, many success stories of children of cancer and/or some "mis-diagnosed, mis-understood" illness was treated successfully by parents/indv's who dared to challenge a given doctors responde and REACHED OUT to other LAY PEOPLE over the internet to seek out new information/experiences of HOPE. Turns out in doing this they discovered they did have the power to help themselves and/or create enough support to ultimately get the medical fields' attns.
And my whole position is open so I am not recommending anything to anyone. But I think it is very good for EVERYONE to think for themselves...that is why our insurance programs encourage SECOND/THIRD opinions.
PS> ironically it was YOUR DECISION to not run get that prescription your doctor recommended? That is all I am saying..USE YOUR HEAD and heart..before taking ANYONE'S advice. But that doesn't mean to not seek advice.
SORRY FOR THE LONG WINDED POST. Have a great week everyone.
I
Jon, well said regarding belief in God all method(s) have His hand.
The 12 steps to me is no different than working Gods steps w/out acknowledging who "God" is (higher power is too general for me)....however admitting the need for God, honesty, sharing... it's still good as it is pointing people in the right direction and helping them see first hand how living openly, honestly..giving to others helps you. To me God is personal, living and does have a name.. and is there for more than "alchohol". But regardless, AA is a good approach..hense why it works for so many.
Patsy, in all honesty I truly appreciate your "sharing" but your posts can come across as "robot" (ie. Repeating "verbatum" the "ESH" approach as if we didn't get it the first time). Isn't that what we all are doing?
Now, I know I ramble and can be a "turn off" to some (lol) so not attacking you. **Just an observation. I personally find it counter productive to refer oneself as a "drunk". That to me is not healing in the least to me. But to each his own I guess.
W/regard to meds...I disagree with you on you shouldn't question and/or seek advice to lay people on their experiences on meds prescribed by doctors. IMHO It is not a negative or irresponsible. "Prescription" drugs are issued through doctors so ultimately I need to go through a doctor should I choose to go that route. But seeing how certain drugs effect others can bring up GOOD, SANE questions for my doctor and can help me understand by reviewing others responses if it is something I want to pursue. I have read many, many success stories of children of cancer and/or some "mis-diagnosed, mis-understood" illness was treated successfully by parents/indv's who dared to challenge a given doctors responde and REACHED OUT to other LAY PEOPLE over the internet to seek out new information/experiences of HOPE. Turns out in doing this they discovered they did have the power to help themselves and/or create enough support to ultimately get the medical fields' attns.
And my whole position is open so I am not recommending anything to anyone. But I think it is very good for EVERYONE to think for themselves...that is why our insurance programs encourage SECOND/THIRD opinions.
PS> ironically it was YOUR DECISION to not run get that prescription your doctor recommended? That is all I am saying..USE YOUR HEAD and heart..before taking ANYONE'S advice. But that doesn't mean to not seek advice.
SORRY FOR THE LONG WINDED POST. Have a great week everyone.
I
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 710
Hi Bradley,
Thanks for letting me know, and I will keep an eye on the repeating. LOL
It was my decision to not take the meds, thats true. I made that decision because I never went there for that reason in the first place.
Love
Patsy
Thanks for letting me know, and I will keep an eye on the repeating. LOL
It was my decision to not take the meds, thats true. I made that decision because I never went there for that reason in the first place.
Love
Patsy
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Hi all,
Is it any wonder why people come to AA depressed and anxious?? Makes perfectly good sense to me. We've all done things we're ashamed of and feel guilty about. Then, the first thing we're told is to go to a meeting and share. HELLO!! This does not mean that we should run to the doctor and get a pill to take care of the problem.
I went to meeting after meeting and shared what I dared and not once did anyone condemn me or criticize me. My sponsor had a few words but that was his job. I learned to accept "me" and that I was a bad person trying to get good, but a sick person trying to get well.
It doesn't surprise me though that the tendency today is to get a pill. Geez, there's pills to lose weight for the fatties that can't say no to a piece of cheesecake and are too lazy to exercise. Easier to take a pill. Problem is, it doesn't work! The only result of pill taking is to avoid taking responsibility because taking responsibility means there's work ahead. Furthermore, so the pill helps avoid drinking; all I've succeeded in doing is transferring my reliance on alcohol to a pill.
AA is about admitting responsibility and doing something about it. Going to meetings, getting a sponsor, and working the steps will reduce the depressioin and anxiety; it just takes a little longer and takes effort. "I don't have time to make meetings because of work." "I have kids at home and don't have a babysitter." "I live 25 miles from the nearest meeting, it's too far to drive....BLAH, BLAH, BLAH." The only question is: "How important is it to get sober and stay sober?"
I know there are exceptions. Some folks need medical help but they're in the minority. Most just want the quick fix to sobriety just like so many other quick fixes that exist in our society today.
So, again I ask: "How important is it to get sober and stay sober?" Am I willing to do whatever it takes, even if it means going to a meeting and letting people know who I really am? Or, am I content with just sitting in front of a computer where I can be anonymous and BS my way along and whiteknuckle it?
Is it any wonder why people come to AA depressed and anxious?? Makes perfectly good sense to me. We've all done things we're ashamed of and feel guilty about. Then, the first thing we're told is to go to a meeting and share. HELLO!! This does not mean that we should run to the doctor and get a pill to take care of the problem.
I went to meeting after meeting and shared what I dared and not once did anyone condemn me or criticize me. My sponsor had a few words but that was his job. I learned to accept "me" and that I was a bad person trying to get good, but a sick person trying to get well.
It doesn't surprise me though that the tendency today is to get a pill. Geez, there's pills to lose weight for the fatties that can't say no to a piece of cheesecake and are too lazy to exercise. Easier to take a pill. Problem is, it doesn't work! The only result of pill taking is to avoid taking responsibility because taking responsibility means there's work ahead. Furthermore, so the pill helps avoid drinking; all I've succeeded in doing is transferring my reliance on alcohol to a pill.
AA is about admitting responsibility and doing something about it. Going to meetings, getting a sponsor, and working the steps will reduce the depressioin and anxiety; it just takes a little longer and takes effort. "I don't have time to make meetings because of work." "I have kids at home and don't have a babysitter." "I live 25 miles from the nearest meeting, it's too far to drive....BLAH, BLAH, BLAH." The only question is: "How important is it to get sober and stay sober?"
I know there are exceptions. Some folks need medical help but they're in the minority. Most just want the quick fix to sobriety just like so many other quick fixes that exist in our society today.
So, again I ask: "How important is it to get sober and stay sober?" Am I willing to do whatever it takes, even if it means going to a meeting and letting people know who I really am? Or, am I content with just sitting in front of a computer where I can be anonymous and BS my way along and whiteknuckle it?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: at the computer
Posts: 121
Respectfully,
There is a difference between taking an antidepressant for clinical depression and taking a "pill" for anxiety and depression caused by alcoholism.
Yes - alcoholism can cause symptoms of depression, but not necessarily the "real thing" i.e. clinical depression- chemical imbalance, what have you. Alcoholism does cause a change in your brain chemistry - yes - but to solve that you have to abstain from alcohol.
Clinical depression is caused by - Who knows? There *is* a proven genetic link, and happens to all kinds of people, alcoholic or not. There is a proven chemical imbalance involving neurotransmitters (Each person can decide for themselves whether or not they agree with that). Abstaining from alcohol will not necessarily make the depression and anxiety go away. These are the people- the clinically depressed ones - that antidepressants most likely work for in the long run. Not every antidepressant works the same for everybody - we are all different physiologically, but the medication will help us have a more realistic view of reality so that we *can* come to terms and deal with things/problems, or whatever. Therapy definitely should not be left out of the mix.
For those who experience depression and anxiety from alcohol use, medication may or may not be helpful. Counseling, therapy, groups, support, talking, etc. all that will be more helpful in the long run.
To summarize - Clinical Depression is very different than depression caused by alcoholism.
And, I agree with most here that each person must make their own choice by 1) seeking out and listening to other people's stories and experiences; and more importantly and necessary - 2) talking to a medical professional.
Jayhay
Yes - alcoholism can cause symptoms of depression, but not necessarily the "real thing" i.e. clinical depression- chemical imbalance, what have you. Alcoholism does cause a change in your brain chemistry - yes - but to solve that you have to abstain from alcohol.
Clinical depression is caused by - Who knows? There *is* a proven genetic link, and happens to all kinds of people, alcoholic or not. There is a proven chemical imbalance involving neurotransmitters (Each person can decide for themselves whether or not they agree with that). Abstaining from alcohol will not necessarily make the depression and anxiety go away. These are the people- the clinically depressed ones - that antidepressants most likely work for in the long run. Not every antidepressant works the same for everybody - we are all different physiologically, but the medication will help us have a more realistic view of reality so that we *can* come to terms and deal with things/problems, or whatever. Therapy definitely should not be left out of the mix.
For those who experience depression and anxiety from alcohol use, medication may or may not be helpful. Counseling, therapy, groups, support, talking, etc. all that will be more helpful in the long run.
To summarize - Clinical Depression is very different than depression caused by alcoholism.
And, I agree with most here that each person must make their own choice by 1) seeking out and listening to other people's stories and experiences; and more importantly and necessary - 2) talking to a medical professional.
Jayhay
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It doesn't surprise me though that the tendency today is to get a pill. Geez, there's pills to lose weight for the fatties that can't say no to a piece of cheesecake and are too lazy to exercise. Easier to take a pill
That's true Music. Medicine can help people with all sorts of problems in this day and time. Even got meds for us alcoholics who are too stupid and lazy to quit drinking (or maybe that wasn't ever you?). My only regret is that they don't have a pill for people with fat heads. But, then, you probably wouldn't take that one either....
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally posted by PianoGirl
That's true Music. Medicine can help people with all sorts of problems in this day and time. Even got meds for us alcoholics who are too stupid and lazy to quit drinking (or maybe that wasn't ever you?). My only regret is that they don't have a pill for people with fat heads. But, then, you probably wouldn't take that one either....
That's true Music. Medicine can help people with all sorts of problems in this day and time. Even got meds for us alcoholics who are too stupid and lazy to quit drinking (or maybe that wasn't ever you?). My only regret is that they don't have a pill for people with fat heads. But, then, you probably wouldn't take that one either....
Must have struck a nerve...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florham Park, nj
Posts: 85
Music...HOW THE HECK ARE YA??? LOL, LOL, LOL on your post.
For the record, I am all for AA! No excuses on why I haven't attended a meeting..it most definitly would be a huge help and very positive. But I am doing great working the steps outside a meeting.. admitting I am helpless to God, reaching out, honesty, and I have a God that makes me accountable and not w/out people like you to keep me in check! YOUR THE BEST!!!
Piano girl...LOL!!!
For the record, I am all for AA! No excuses on why I haven't attended a meeting..it most definitly would be a huge help and very positive. But I am doing great working the steps outside a meeting.. admitting I am helpless to God, reaching out, honesty, and I have a God that makes me accountable and not w/out people like you to keep me in check! YOUR THE BEST!!!
Piano girl...LOL!!!
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Awwww, ya can dish out, but ya can't take it, huh Mus??? he he :p
Just kidding, You remind me of my Dad - he just talks trash all the time too. But, like him, I just have to get a dig in here and there.
Besides, a recovering alcoholic with PMS will always stand up for the right thing!!!! lol So, don't mess with me today!
This thread has just been hysterical Bradley!
Just kidding, You remind me of my Dad - he just talks trash all the time too. But, like him, I just have to get a dig in here and there.
Besides, a recovering alcoholic with PMS will always stand up for the right thing!!!! lol So, don't mess with me today!
This thread has just been hysterical Bradley!
Last edited by PianoGirl; 11-17-2003 at 01:49 PM.
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Y'all hold on a minute...I feel a piece of cheesecake coming on. Let's see here.....strawberrys or blueberrys???:p
Screw it....I'll have chocolate!
Hey Bradley...MT your darn mailbox. I can't PM you.
Hey Pianogirl.....PMS=Pretty Miserable S***
Screw it....I'll have chocolate!
Hey Bradley...MT your darn mailbox. I can't PM you.
Hey Pianogirl.....PMS=Pretty Miserable S***
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