Alcoholism as a disease?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Tazman53 
Everyone can become a drug addict by using addictive drugs. (Scientific fact)
Like I said before it doesn't matter how you classify the problem so long as you learn how to deal with it. If some need the comfort pillow of calling it a disease so be it ... but I prefer to reserve the word disease for other conditions.
Alcoholism is far more closely related to ... say substance abuse, than it is to cancer and you have to be a very blinkered individual not to see that.
Call it a Disease, call it Micky Mouse, it changes nothing !!
Last edited by Budfrog; 10-24-2007 at 06:05 AM. Reason: A disease called bad spelling
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Tazman53
Diabetes is far more closely related to ... say substance abuse (Sugar and the like, than it is to cancer and you have to be a very blinkered individual not to see that.
Addiction to Sugar (if there is such a thing) is not a disease whereas Diabetes is. Liver or Heart disease can be a direct result of alcohol abuse which I believe to be an addiction.
You don't just walk down the street and catch a dose of alcoholism most people inflict it upon themselves over many years. Despite the efforts of the drinks industry most of us knew the risks of alcohol consumption and some of us sadly have become addicted to this drug.
Whatever label you choose to place on it does not undermine the seriousness of this complaint for many people ... what is wrong with the label "Chronic Addiction" ? or is that a little too accurate a label for some.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by Budfrog
Like I said before it doesn't matter how you classify the problem so long as you learn how to deal with it. If some need the comfort pillow of calling it a disease so be it ... but I prefer to reserve the word disease for other conditions.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Wow. I did not expect this thread to grow so long.
I notice that it seems as though there is an agreement that the medical community considers alcoholism a disease by their classifications. Personally I agree that it does fit the definition of a disease.
I also noticed and agree that it is really irrelevant to an alcoholic whether it is a disease or not. To them it is a problem that needs to be resolved.
There does seem to be conflict surrounding whether or not it is comparable to diseases such as cancer or diabetes. I would only compare it to cancer because cancer can kill, it also sometimes can be put into a remission, and it can come back. Alcoholism can also kill, it can also be put into remission by putting down the drink, and it can come out of remission by picking up a drink again. The diabetes concept is a better concept for comparrison in my opinion as there are more similiarities between the two diseases. Anyone can become a diabetic, there is a genetic predisposition to it, the disease is not usually caught early, and the individual has control over some aspects of the disease (they make choices; take their meds, lose weight, eat right, excercise, etc..) that can affect the progression of the disease. Anyone can become an alcoholic. Alcoholism has been shown to have a genetic predisposition to it (even if it is more environmental than genetic, there is usually a family history). The disease of alcholism is usually not caught early. Finally, the alcoholic does have the choice to either get help for the disease or continue to drink.
I do believe that the introduction of the disease concept by the medical community has been beneficial to many people. It has helped bring the problem of alcholism into light, creating less stigma attached to it. Showing that there is a solution to the disease. For me the fact that people have enough understanding of the disease concept of alcoholism makes my life easier. Very rarely have I run into someone who could not grasp the concept that I am unable to drink because I am an alcoholic. At this point in my life I don't try to hide the fact that I am an alcoholic. Nor do I advertise it. To me it is like the color of my hair or my height, it is just a part of who I am. Nothing more, nothing less. The only difference is I do have to work to keep the disease in remission.
Just my $0.20 worth.
I notice that it seems as though there is an agreement that the medical community considers alcoholism a disease by their classifications. Personally I agree that it does fit the definition of a disease.
I also noticed and agree that it is really irrelevant to an alcoholic whether it is a disease or not. To them it is a problem that needs to be resolved.
There does seem to be conflict surrounding whether or not it is comparable to diseases such as cancer or diabetes. I would only compare it to cancer because cancer can kill, it also sometimes can be put into a remission, and it can come back. Alcoholism can also kill, it can also be put into remission by putting down the drink, and it can come out of remission by picking up a drink again. The diabetes concept is a better concept for comparrison in my opinion as there are more similiarities between the two diseases. Anyone can become a diabetic, there is a genetic predisposition to it, the disease is not usually caught early, and the individual has control over some aspects of the disease (they make choices; take their meds, lose weight, eat right, excercise, etc..) that can affect the progression of the disease. Anyone can become an alcoholic. Alcoholism has been shown to have a genetic predisposition to it (even if it is more environmental than genetic, there is usually a family history). The disease of alcholism is usually not caught early. Finally, the alcoholic does have the choice to either get help for the disease or continue to drink.
I do believe that the introduction of the disease concept by the medical community has been beneficial to many people. It has helped bring the problem of alcholism into light, creating less stigma attached to it. Showing that there is a solution to the disease. For me the fact that people have enough understanding of the disease concept of alcoholism makes my life easier. Very rarely have I run into someone who could not grasp the concept that I am unable to drink because I am an alcoholic. At this point in my life I don't try to hide the fact that I am an alcoholic. Nor do I advertise it. To me it is like the color of my hair or my height, it is just a part of who I am. Nothing more, nothing less. The only difference is I do have to work to keep the disease in remission.
Just my $0.20 worth.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire
Posts: 45
Article from Narconon (S.Calif)
For what it's worth ....
Many people call alcoholism a disease. If it is a disease, then it is the only disease without germ or virus, the only one that is bottled and sold over the counter for a profit and brings in tax revenue for the government, state, county and state. If it is a disease, then it is the only disease that turns our boys into criminals and our girls into prostitutes. Why is it that we do not call cocaine or heroin addiction a disease? Because, to do that would be absolutely ridiculous. We know that is not the truth. Why is this same standard not applied to the most dangerous drug manifest in this country, “alcohol”?
Those who have become alcoholics did not become so overnight it all started by taking that one drink, and that put them on the road to drunkenness. Webster defines alcoholism as “the habitual drinking of alcoholic liquor to excess, or a diseased condition caused by this.”
At face value this seems to be an accurate description of someone with alcoholism. Ask most people and they would agree with this definition. However, there are some discrepancies and misinformation in our current use of the term alcoholism that need to be acknowledged. Mainly that alcoholism is not a disease, but a belief. Nowhere has it been proven that the disease exists. Read any literature and the results will not confidently state it is a disease. They will only speculate. The following is a quick and realistic look at "alcoholism". Alcoholism is not a disease, find out how many have already realized that alcoholism and addiction is a choice.
Alcoholism carries with it a stigma that says the person afflicted cannot control their use of alcohol, they are powerless over alcohol, they are spiritually lacking and need to surrender their will to a higher power, and that they have a disease for the rest of their life.
It is unfortunate that we have transformed the term "alcoholism" into a limited definition of a disease. For though it is not a disease, the mere fact that people believe it is a disease, makes it harder for them to escape it's clutches. I believe it does a disservice to those who struggle with alcohol or drugs because it promotes powerlessness and dependency. To look at alcoholism as it truly is (a belief) is to understand and take control of our own individual role in overcoming it. Beliefs can be powerful, but so can the truth. Find out how the majority of those who once struggled with alcohol and drugs changed their lives, and refused to acknowledge alcoholism as a disease.
Many disease model spokespersons are recovered alcoholics and have an emotional investment in viewing themselves as helpless to their own behaviors. A majority of these people are seriously lacking in scientific backgrounds. They say scientific validity ''interferes with the process'' of helping people who need help and claim special qualification to help others. They perceive any challenge to the disease concept as ''a challenge to the validity of their own emotional ordeal and conversion to sobriety.''
The treatment industry also has a substantial economic investment in maintaining the disease concept. As long as alcoholism is considered a disease, medical insurance pays for treating it.
Is the disease model of alcoholism scientific? No. Simply calling behavior a disease process does not make it one, even if doing so assists in creating sobriety. Is the treatment policy based on bad science? Yes. Is there any chance that this attitude will change in the near future? Very unlikely.
And my 15p worth.
Many people call alcoholism a disease. If it is a disease, then it is the only disease without germ or virus, the only one that is bottled and sold over the counter for a profit and brings in tax revenue for the government, state, county and state. If it is a disease, then it is the only disease that turns our boys into criminals and our girls into prostitutes. Why is it that we do not call cocaine or heroin addiction a disease? Because, to do that would be absolutely ridiculous. We know that is not the truth. Why is this same standard not applied to the most dangerous drug manifest in this country, “alcohol”?
Those who have become alcoholics did not become so overnight it all started by taking that one drink, and that put them on the road to drunkenness. Webster defines alcoholism as “the habitual drinking of alcoholic liquor to excess, or a diseased condition caused by this.”
At face value this seems to be an accurate description of someone with alcoholism. Ask most people and they would agree with this definition. However, there are some discrepancies and misinformation in our current use of the term alcoholism that need to be acknowledged. Mainly that alcoholism is not a disease, but a belief. Nowhere has it been proven that the disease exists. Read any literature and the results will not confidently state it is a disease. They will only speculate. The following is a quick and realistic look at "alcoholism". Alcoholism is not a disease, find out how many have already realized that alcoholism and addiction is a choice.
Alcoholism carries with it a stigma that says the person afflicted cannot control their use of alcohol, they are powerless over alcohol, they are spiritually lacking and need to surrender their will to a higher power, and that they have a disease for the rest of their life.
It is unfortunate that we have transformed the term "alcoholism" into a limited definition of a disease. For though it is not a disease, the mere fact that people believe it is a disease, makes it harder for them to escape it's clutches. I believe it does a disservice to those who struggle with alcohol or drugs because it promotes powerlessness and dependency. To look at alcoholism as it truly is (a belief) is to understand and take control of our own individual role in overcoming it. Beliefs can be powerful, but so can the truth. Find out how the majority of those who once struggled with alcohol and drugs changed their lives, and refused to acknowledge alcoholism as a disease.
Many disease model spokespersons are recovered alcoholics and have an emotional investment in viewing themselves as helpless to their own behaviors. A majority of these people are seriously lacking in scientific backgrounds. They say scientific validity ''interferes with the process'' of helping people who need help and claim special qualification to help others. They perceive any challenge to the disease concept as ''a challenge to the validity of their own emotional ordeal and conversion to sobriety.''
The treatment industry also has a substantial economic investment in maintaining the disease concept. As long as alcoholism is considered a disease, medical insurance pays for treating it.
Is the disease model of alcoholism scientific? No. Simply calling behavior a disease process does not make it one, even if doing so assists in creating sobriety. Is the treatment policy based on bad science? Yes. Is there any chance that this attitude will change in the near future? Very unlikely.
And my 15p worth.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Budfrog, although your post poses some interesting thoughts.
There still remains the simple fact that anyone in the medical community; which includes doctors, nurses, etc... know that alcoholism fits the definition of a disease. Here is the definition of disease: . You state that anyone who calls alcoholism a disease has no scientific background. I find that statement a little ridiculous as you have no way of knowing anyone's background on this site. I personally have been a nurse for over 20 years, spent 12 years as a paramedic, and am currently in school working on a biology degree. So to clarify things, I do believe I have a scientific background. Even Dr. Silkworth classified alcoholism as a disease. Read the doctors opinion in the Big Book.
My belief that alcoholism does fit the disease definition does not make me any less sober today. In fact my acceptance of alcoholism as a disease only makes me more vilgilent on treating it. I know that as a disease it is only in remission as long as I am not drinking and continue working on the behaviors that trigger my drinking.
Yes, treatment centers to get paid by insurance need alcoholism to be considered a disease. Why is that a bad thing? How many people have been helped by treatment centers? I know quite a few who are sober today because of the start they got at treatment centers.
The statement that considering alcoholism a disease has done damage is one that I see as having no real legs to stand on. I take full responsibility for treating my disease of alcholism. Knowing that it is a disease does not cause me to feel any less responsible for my actions it only causes me to be more aware that my actions have a direct influence over the disease. The people who choose to use alcoholism as an excuse for poor behavior usually are people who are not ready to stop drinking and are just using the disease concept as a way to run from the responsibility. They would do that anyway even if there was no disease concept to throw in there. An alcoholic is manipulative and will do most anyting to continue drinking until the get to the jumping off place.
I appreciate your response. I personally believe that alcoholism is a disease that kills way to many people and the more we can do to take some of the stigma and shame away from being a recovering alcoholic the more people that would be willing to try recovery. The disease concept helps to alleviate some of the stigma and shame associated with alcoholism.
There still remains the simple fact that anyone in the medical community; which includes doctors, nurses, etc... know that alcoholism fits the definition of a disease. Here is the definition of disease:
A disease is an abnormal condition of an organism that impairs bodily functions. In human beings, "disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes discomfort, dysfunction, distress, social problems, and/or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person
My belief that alcoholism does fit the disease definition does not make me any less sober today. In fact my acceptance of alcoholism as a disease only makes me more vilgilent on treating it. I know that as a disease it is only in remission as long as I am not drinking and continue working on the behaviors that trigger my drinking.
Yes, treatment centers to get paid by insurance need alcoholism to be considered a disease. Why is that a bad thing? How many people have been helped by treatment centers? I know quite a few who are sober today because of the start they got at treatment centers.
The statement that considering alcoholism a disease has done damage is one that I see as having no real legs to stand on. I take full responsibility for treating my disease of alcholism. Knowing that it is a disease does not cause me to feel any less responsible for my actions it only causes me to be more aware that my actions have a direct influence over the disease. The people who choose to use alcoholism as an excuse for poor behavior usually are people who are not ready to stop drinking and are just using the disease concept as a way to run from the responsibility. They would do that anyway even if there was no disease concept to throw in there. An alcoholic is manipulative and will do most anyting to continue drinking until the get to the jumping off place.
I appreciate your response. I personally believe that alcoholism is a disease that kills way to many people and the more we can do to take some of the stigma and shame away from being a recovering alcoholic the more people that would be willing to try recovery. The disease concept helps to alleviate some of the stigma and shame associated with alcoholism.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
....If it is a disease, then it is the only disease without germ or virus, the only one that is bottled and sold over the counter for a profit and brings in tax revenue for the government, state, county and state.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire
Posts: 45
Nandm,
If you noticed this was a C&P of an article from Narconon (South California) which whilst not agreeing with everything written I have submitted in order to illustrate an opposite viewpoint.
There are experts and professional healthcare workers who sit on both sides of this particular debate which I am sure is set to rumble on a while yet.
Chronic Addiction is my preferred term of choice as IMO there is very little to differential Alcoholism from any other form of drug addiction.
If Alcohol were to hit the streets this year it would be either a class A or B drug in the eyes of the law and the medical community it is only it's long history of social acceptance that has allowed it to be treated differantly.
If you noticed this was a C&P of an article from Narconon (South California) which whilst not agreeing with everything written I have submitted in order to illustrate an opposite viewpoint.
There are experts and professional healthcare workers who sit on both sides of this particular debate which I am sure is set to rumble on a while yet.
Chronic Addiction is my preferred term of choice as IMO there is very little to differential Alcoholism from any other form of drug addiction.
If Alcohol were to hit the streets this year it would be either a class A or B drug in the eyes of the law and the medical community it is only it's long history of social acceptance that has allowed it to be treated differantly.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
If it is a disease, then it is the only disease without germ or virus
I am neither a doctor nor a scientist as a result when I have a question or seek advice about something wrong with me I go to those who I trust have the correct answer that they have arrived at through scientific research over many years.
Anyone can reach up their butt and pull out an opinion, and that is all it is, an opinion, it is not backed up by any scientific or medical research that the majority of doctors & scientists agree on.
I am dropping this as well, we all have our opinions, some based on proven facts and some simply ones opinion, I have always liked facts to back up my opinions if possible and have many times changed my opinion when facts prove my opinion wrong, some are unable to do this, this I just need to accept and move on.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,964
Maybe it would be useful to post a pinned topic about the disease model of alcoholism with links and opinions from both sides of the issue.
Last edited by Zencat; 10-25-2007 at 08:15 AM. Reason: ops
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, Chapter 4, We Agnostics, page 44.
As far as I know there is no disease recognized by either the American Medical Association, or the American Psychiatric Association, which "only a spiritual experience will conquer." If anyone has a link that would perhaps support Mr. Wilsons claim I would be appreciative in seeing it.
Most people do not enjoy, especially in the spirit of recovery and support, being told that their opinion was "pulled out of their butt." I would tend to err on the side of compassion when speaking with others regarding their opinions and beliefs. Of course that is just my opinion. LOL
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, Chapter 4, We Agnostics, page 44.
As far as I know there is no disease recognized by either the American Medical Association, or the American Psychiatric Association, which "only a spiritual experience will conquer." If anyone has a link that would perhaps support Mr. Wilsons claim I would be appreciative in seeing it.
Most people do not enjoy, especially in the spirit of recovery and support, being told that their opinion was "pulled out of their butt." I would tend to err on the side of compassion when speaking with others regarding their opinions and beliefs. Of course that is just my opinion. LOL
dum vita est spes est
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: vita secundum nex
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by bugsworth
American Medical Association, or the American Psychiatric Association, which "only a spiritual experience will conquer.
"There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics." - Mark Twain
As an alcoholic, I can tell you that I have done all of my research and it's left me with this - when I drink, bad things happen to me and others.
So is it a choice or a disease? Perhaps both? Who cares, I just want to be sober.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
No disrespect interperted in you repy, no worries!
I never stated that these organizations were the end all and be all on this subject and in the same vein neither is the big book. I am not sure if statistics have anything to do with what I quoted out of the big book, it was a quote from Bill Wilson in the chapter to the agnostic. With the vast amount of knowledge afforded to us via the internet I have yet to come across any disease that "only a spiritual experience can conquer. Not to say that for some it is exactly what they needed and subscribed to as a plan for recovery.
I too love quotes from great minds...
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think, we become.
- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei
It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.
- Giordano Bruno
It is always so refreshing to be able to find a quote that fits our needs and beliefs.
I too, like you, only want to live a sober life, so in reality we are not at odds with each other, rather have found different paths to arrive at the same goal.
I never stated that these organizations were the end all and be all on this subject and in the same vein neither is the big book. I am not sure if statistics have anything to do with what I quoted out of the big book, it was a quote from Bill Wilson in the chapter to the agnostic. With the vast amount of knowledge afforded to us via the internet I have yet to come across any disease that "only a spiritual experience can conquer. Not to say that for some it is exactly what they needed and subscribed to as a plan for recovery.
I too love quotes from great minds...
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think, we become.
- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei
It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.
- Giordano Bruno
It is always so refreshing to be able to find a quote that fits our needs and beliefs.
I too, like you, only want to live a sober life, so in reality we are not at odds with each other, rather have found different paths to arrive at the same goal.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by bugsworth
If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, Chapter 4, We Agnostics, page 44.
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, Chapter 4, We Agnostics, page 44.
Alcoholism deals with the mind, body, and spirit.
The mind has to change as in the behaviors, resentments, anger, that keep us drinking have to be resolved.
The body has to change, that is the disease part, we have to allow the body to heal from the damage done to it by alcohol. We have to allow the brain receptors that are geared toward getting more alcohol, that drive the cravings time to heal.
Yes, I agree there is a spiritual aspect to it. For me it took adding that component to the three to find any success at resolving my alcohol problem for any length of time. I understand there are people who do not address this component to quit drinking but I have not met any that have been successful at any long term recovery.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
nandm, while Dr. Silkworths opinion is duly noted, it is just that another opinion.
I do agree that certain behaviors need to change to support long term sobriety and certainly ones body needs to repair from years of damage.
For many there is a spiritual aspect to recovery, believe it or not, even in mine. However I do not subscribe to alcoholism as being a "spiritual disease".
I do disagree with you in regards to those who do not subscribe to the steps as a plan of recovery. Many people have recovered without the steps....
Professor George E. Vaillant of Harvard University is an enthusiastic advocate of Twelve-Step treatment, and was a member of the Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. (AAWS) Board of Trustees. In 1983 he published his book The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery, where he described the natural healing process associated with individuals addicted to alcohol -- "spontaneous remission" -- where some of the people who are addicted to alcohol will simply quit, and choose to stay abstinent of their own volition, without any Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, or any therapy program, or any other outside intervention at all. He conducted an 8 year study.
Dr. Vaillant's question was: does the A.A. program improve on the percentage of alcoholics who undergo spontaneous remission? His answer was NO....here were his findings, and his remarks....
Table 8.1 shows our treatment results. After initial discharge, only five patients in the Clinic sample never relapsed to alcoholic drinking, and there is compelling evidence that the results of our treatment were no better than the natural history of the disease. Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.
So it is not as black and white as we all like to think. Do what works for you, reach out to the still sick and suffering and love yourself for who you are, as my Mom would say..."warts and all" LOL Not to imply you have warts...lol just an expression.
I do agree that certain behaviors need to change to support long term sobriety and certainly ones body needs to repair from years of damage.
For many there is a spiritual aspect to recovery, believe it or not, even in mine. However I do not subscribe to alcoholism as being a "spiritual disease".
I do disagree with you in regards to those who do not subscribe to the steps as a plan of recovery. Many people have recovered without the steps....
Professor George E. Vaillant of Harvard University is an enthusiastic advocate of Twelve-Step treatment, and was a member of the Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. (AAWS) Board of Trustees. In 1983 he published his book The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery, where he described the natural healing process associated with individuals addicted to alcohol -- "spontaneous remission" -- where some of the people who are addicted to alcohol will simply quit, and choose to stay abstinent of their own volition, without any Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, or any therapy program, or any other outside intervention at all. He conducted an 8 year study.
Dr. Vaillant's question was: does the A.A. program improve on the percentage of alcoholics who undergo spontaneous remission? His answer was NO....here were his findings, and his remarks....
Table 8.1 shows our treatment results. After initial discharge, only five patients in the Clinic sample never relapsed to alcoholic drinking, and there is compelling evidence that the results of our treatment were no better than the natural history of the disease. Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.
So it is not as black and white as we all like to think. Do what works for you, reach out to the still sick and suffering and love yourself for who you are, as my Mom would say..."warts and all" LOL Not to imply you have warts...lol just an expression.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
