tubesk

I'm looking for various opinions & perspectives

I went to an AA meeting last Friday.
It helped confirm some of my beliefs.
1) I'm not an alcoholic (according to AA defs).
2) I don't agree with a lot of things AA teaches.
3) I love the availability & support AA can provide.

I'm willing to agree that the first could be denial, definition wording, own perspective, etc.

I do want to cut back on drinking... in a moderate-to-huge way. I don't want it to become a habit with many consequences. & I'd be willing to simply stop... at least for awhile.

I'm having trouble with this from multiple points...

I feel like if I do go to AA then I'm in some way undermining those who firmly believe 100% of things taught & all. Same feeling I have with going to church... that I could go because I'm questioning my spirituality & find many church buildings beautiful, peaceful, etc... yet it's in some way a slap-in-the-face of those who follow that religion 100%

alcohol & certain things... are so closely meshed.... that although it's all well & good to say "just don't drink"... it's not that simple. not without other consequences. it's more of an "ok, I can just-not-drink... now what do I do with x & y.... what do I do when things come up that I don't know how to deal with yet... how do I prevent older ways of coping from reappearing... etc"

& stuff & things

marius404

Only you know if your an alcoholic or not....but obviously alcohol is causing some problems for ya or you wouldn't go to a AA meeting or find these forums.

So just weigh the pros and cons. Is drinking worth the trouble it is causing you?
Is drinking so important to your life that you can't see yourself giving it up?
People who don't have problems with alcohol don't feel like they have to drink, they can take it or leave it. So why not leave it for a while and see what that is like.

Remember that AA isn't for everyone and its not the only way to get sober. Also not all alcoholics are people who have let alcohol ruin there lives....yet. It is an ongoing proccess, a downward spiral. I used to think that since I have a job and a decent life than surely i am not an alcoholic...which of coarse is not true.

Anyways, hopefully your just some one who parties a little to much and needs to cut back a little. Just keep an open mind about it and keep tabs on how much of your life revolves around a bottle.

Also, you shouldn't feel bad about going to a church as a nonbeliever. Lots of nonbelievers get dragged to church all the time. Mostly the Preacher man doesn't care as long as people aren't being too stingy in his tax free offering plate, lol.

tubesk

Also not all alcoholics are people who have let alcohol ruin there lives....yet. It is an ongoing proccess, a downward spiral. I used to think that since I have a job and a decent life than surely i am not an alcoholic...which of coarse is not true.
--*nods* is one place where I think it's just an AA wording thing that I disagree with.

I'm a "drink only when alone" type so partying is out =)

I've not found a whole lot of non-AA options.... not in the "it's everywhere multiple times a day" sense...

I'm past the "don't drink for a few days" stage. mostly in terms of willingness. definitely in terms of ease.
I can though know how much I'm going to drink & stick with that. granted it's more than one or two.

I guess I just really feel out-of-place yet in-place.... if that makes sense?

chip

Hi Tubsk,
Yes, AA isn't for everyone. Like Marius said, only you know if you're an alcoholic. Have you ever tried abstaining to see what it's like?

I wouldn't worry about undermining what others believe by attending a meeting or a church service. All you need is a desire to stop drinking to attend AA. If you don't have a desire to stop drinking, why go? What is your desire? What drives you to post here, or go to an AA meeting?

I think you're here because you're looking for answers about your drinking. You've probably had some negative experiences from drinking. Like Marius said, you might want to weigh out the pros and cons of your drinking.

If you are honest with yourself, you will find an honest answer. The best way to find out the truth is to try and abstain for a long period of time. The 'ole 30 day test is the classic "am I an alcoholic" test.

We know that alcohol causes problems for society. Most of us here, on SR, have found that it causes problems in our lives. If I were a betting man, and I'm not because I have an addictive personality, I'd bet that alcohol has caused you many problems in your life. One thing about forums like this, we are a self selecting bunch of people ;-)

I think everything is telling you that you should take a couple steps back from the bottle, and take an objective look at what it's done for you in your life. If the bad outweighs the good...why not just give it up? Problems giving it up? AA will always be there if you change your mind, and realize that you need something to stay sober.
peace be with you,
chip

tubesk

All you need is a desire to stop drinking to attend AA. If you don't have a desire to stop drinking, why go? What is your desire? What drives you to post here, or go to an AA meeting?
--because I'm tired of replacing unhealthy ways of coping with other unhealthy ways of coping. So far drinking is to a far less significant extent as other things have become.... & I don't want it to gain ground.
AA meetings... because I want the support.... I crave the support. & they're all over & multiple times.... it's easy to fit into any day.

You've probably had some negative experiences from drinking.
--it's more... that I never intended to replace one thing with another... yet I've done just that... again.
& from so many others in my life I've seen what damage/consequences it can have.

If the bad outweighs the good...why not just give it up? Problems giving it up?
--that's where I think it's just my disagreement with the AA definition & solution. Granted it could well be simply my mindset atm... I have been known to change my mind.
problems giving it up... definitely. that was proven yet again after I did go to the meeting.
the bad outweighing the good... is trickier. although long-term I know better. I know it far outweighs.

chip

Tubsk,
You've put alot of thought into this, and I understand where you are coming from. Who wants to replace a bad thing with another bad thing?

I had to quit drinking, but drinking filled a void in my life. When I quit drinkng the vast, dark void was still present. What do I fill the void with??? I felt so lost when I quit drinking. I felt like I lost my best friend. I felt like my life was over. What could I do next? I felt like nothing.

My whole life, I've felt like something was missing. I always felt "less than" others. I was always full of insecurity and self loathing. Drinking took all that away for me. When I drank, I felt confident, strong, handsome, funny.....you name it. It was like a magicial potion. Later, as my drinking progressed, I'd "work out" all my problems during late night sessions with a keg of beer. I thought of my drinking as sort of a therapy. I was discovering my "inner child".

Isn't this insane? I fully believe that alcohol made me insane.

It turned on me. It filled the void, and made up for all the things that I lacked, but it was really destroying my life. When the bad really choked out the good... I quit.

Here's the part I want to let you know...

AA is teaching me how to live a healthy, decent, moral life.

Even if I wasn't an alcoholic, I'd still find a 12 step program to be useful for my life. Why? Because the program is filling the void in my life. The program is "fixing" me. I am a broken person. AA is rebuilding my life. It's a healthy coping mechanism for me. The support is fantastic, and I feel for the first time in 17 years, I am growing.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to accomplish for you by writing this. I'm sharing mainly because I need to share with someone. Nobody wants to be alone. Before I found AA, I sure felt alone...

It's your choice. Nobody is going to force you to go. If it helps you, why not keep doing it??
chip

c'est la vie

I believe this too most of the time. But I also see that my habits were hurting me physically and emotionally and it's so much better to be sober than drunk.



I looked at AA as "Coping Skills 101". At every meeting I would hear how someone faced a life challenge and what actions they took instead of drinking. I learned a lot in AA and here at SR and I don't drink to cope with stress or lonliness or anger or social anxiety any more.



I tried this and couldn't wait to start drinking again. Unfortunately every drink was laced with guilt and remorse and my depression got very bad. After 5 months of that pain, I quit again for 6 months. I think a body needs a lot longer than 30 days to equalize the chemicals that are so out of balance. I can't even describe fully how much better I feel about myself as a human. I'm finally seeing who I am and I'm realizing that I'm an OK person, faults and all.


Me too. I stopped going to AA, but I feel better than ever. Everyone has different needs, that's why there are so many options of recovery programs, including the "no program" program. I suppose SR is my "program".

tubesk

I don't mean to sound like I'm debating or disagreeing with either of you... yet am afraid I might come across as such.... mainly thinking to myself & using the two of you as part of the conversation

I know how to lead a healthy, decent, moral life.... the "healthy" bit has come from years of therapy. & still is less-than-stable (because of recently brought up stuff & alcohol).. & I'd also agree sober is better than drunk.

I very badly want the support AA can offer. yet it seems underhanded since it's not 100% alcohol related.
I'd not expect anyone from AA to deal with a call about 'yeah want to drink or x. fairly sure i could not drink but really want to x.'
I love... the welcome AA has.
yet I'm not sure it "works" in that I do disagree with a lot of it.

& possibly (although's not been my experience. granted limited.) religion could provide that.

Nobody wants to be alone. Before I found AA, I sure felt alone...
--*nods*
as pathetic as it may seem.... alcohol is one of my maladaptive behaviors that really has support behind it... & hope.... to stop.
which is also one of my hesitations to go to AA as well. as it can seem just a 'hm well x, y & z don't have support really... but gosh alcohol certainly does!'
granted logically I know I'm not doing that. just can seem so.

meep. sorry. I feel like I'm babbling now =/

c'est la vie

Maybe you could attend with an open mind. You don't have to "get it" in order to go. Have coffee with some AA friends afterwards and try to connect. Perhaps if you had the emotional support to rid yourself of alcohol, you might find that x, y, and z aren't so important. Maybe you could find someone who also struggles with x, y, or z and relate to them and how they are managing.

If you truly believe that alcohol is not your problem, then perhaps you will be more interested in joining any other club. Do you have a hobby? Do you play a sport? If x, y or z is really the problem then maybe there is a support group for that. Is it something you care to share here and maybe get some advice?

ay100

AA is one of the ways to help you for recovery. Like others said above You obviously are concerned about your drinking otherwise you wouldn't be here. My wife is a social drinker. She doesn't drink on most of the social occasions. She drişnks once in the blue moon. She is not concerned about her drinking so we will never see her lurking here.

I was so I made a search and found this community and now I am sober.

You have gotto decide whether to give up or continue drinking.

best

You can show up at meetings in my area and even come to my church.
I don't see it as a slap in the face in either case.

I don't get well then visit the DR. I go to the DR so I can find out how to get well. Same thing with meetings and church. If I didn't see a need to stop drinking, I wouldn't need AA. If I was perfect, I wouldn't need church.

mallowcup

Why don't you do what works for you? Why not take what you like and leave the rest. You sound like someone who has a level head, why not write out your own recovery plan. I suppose you'd have to be pretty honest with yourself. I don't think you have to agree 100% with anything, but you can go for your own reasons, like support. Your own recovery plan isn't intended to validate or invalidate anyone. It's easy to go anywhere and find enough reasons not to go, why not consider what you do get out of it. If no where seems quite right, whats wrong with taking all the parts that work for you?

Tazman53

Perfect sense to me, I found out real quick when I quit looking for the differences between myself and everyone in the meeting and started to look at the similarities between myself and the other people there that I felt more and more that I was in the right place.

I find it rather interesting that you said: Give me some time on this, I will come up with a few questions that you can answer to determine if you are an alcoholic per "AA" def.

There are other programs, but you pointed out one thing that AA has hands down over any other program, if you want some individual support pick up the phone, doesn't cost a dime. Want a meeting, no problem unless you are in a rural area there is at a minimum one meeting every night, in some spots there are meetings mornimg. noon and night 7 days a week. As small as where I live is there are at least 40 meetings a week.

Tell us what it does teach? It is a suggested program, nothing is mandantory, but if I want to stay sober and become a better person I follow the suggestions...... funny thing, they are not that hard for me, but then again I really want to stay sober and become a better person.

Tazman53

Tubesk first of all understand that according to AA there is only one person who can determine whether or not you are an alcoholic, you! Not me, or anyone else in AA, only you.

Here are a few questions paraphrased from the BB that you can answer for yourself to where you can determine if you are an alcoholic of the type we are. There are many different types of alcoholics so if one question does not apply to you, that does not mean it disqualifies you as an alcoholic of our type, it really only takes one and you saying "Yes, that is me, I am an alcohlic of that type."

1. Does your drinking bring misunderstanding, fierce resentment, financial insecurity, disgusted friends & employers,warped lives of blameless children, or sad wives & parents?

2. When you have one drink do you lose control of your drinking.

3. Do you do absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking?

4. When drinking do you become disgusting or anti-social?

5. Do you ever get drunk at the worst possible time?

6. When it comes to your drinking are you dishonest and selfish?

7. Do you ever wake up from a vicous drunk looking for another drink?

8. Do you ever hide booze?

9. Have you ever seen a doctor about your drinking or gone through a detox or rehab?

10. Can you just stop drinking when ever you want to?

With me I can answer yes to all but one of those, but even if I only answered yes to 1 or 2 of them I would still meet the definition of an alcoholic according to AA.

tubesk

thanks so much to everyone who's managed to wade through my thoughts so far =)
(if anyone makes it through all this you'll know more about me than you ever wanted....)

I'm working to be a bit more sure myself of what I'm actually looking for/needing in all this. Sometimes my brain jumbles things up & it helps to get other thoughts on things.

Tazman, I'm going to save discussion of what specifically I disagree with in AA for a later time. I hope you don't mind...

the only one on the list that'd fit me would be 10.
one of the things I disagree with would be calling alcoholism a disease. & that forever & always an individual would be alcoholic.
granted I also think it's one of those things... that I'm quite happy to "agree to disagree".... I know seeing it as such works really well for many people & it's not something I'd argue with.

If no where seems quite right, whats wrong with taking all the parts that work for you?
--the only thing "wrong" with it is that I feel highly guilty doing that. which judging from replies is unjustified guilt. to me it's always kind of felt.... hypocritical. like I was sitting at church trying to appear Christian when in reality I just loved the pew... or such. maybe I just need a sign on my forehead.... Just Visiting.... or something *rolls eyes*


You obviously are concerned about your drinking otherwise you wouldn't be here. My wife is a social drinker. She doesn't drink on most of the social occasions.
--*nods* I am concerned. I think one difficulty for me is the lack of a wider variety of people to base my own observations on. my parents & their church believe that alcohol is sinful. pointblank. my brother & his friends drink a lot & often.... besides a variety of drugs.
so for me it becomes more.... "ok, I don't like this in myself. but is it really a problem? is this just "normal?"..." deal.

If you truly believe that alcohol is not your problem, then perhaps you will be more interested in joining any other club. Do you have a hobby? Do you play a sport? If x, y or z is really the problem then maybe there is a support group for that. Is it something you care to share here and maybe get some advice?
--it's not so much that I don't think it's a problem... rather at a loss to explain that more atm though.

to be a bit more specific.... (& hopefully I'll not ramble too much or give too many details)

I got rather slammed with physical stuff several months ago. Adrenal exhaustion, fibromyalgia (hopefully symptoms of are related to adrenal stuff), etc. I've been told firmly that I cannot overdo it. that I *need* to seriously slow down & rest or it'll get worse rather than better.
Which rather eliminates a lot of the stuff I used to do.

Within the past month & a half I've also been slammed with a lot of emotional stuff. I mentioned stuff in therapy that I'd never realized was a Big Deal... I'm very good at figuring 'ahh was in the past. not anything important anyhow... lalala'
So it's been rather a wading through of a lot of abuse/neglect/bullying/life-threatening situations/recurrent nightmares/etc.

(I could swear I'm just collecting new dx's!)

for years... decades... I self-injured (cutting/burning/overdosing/etc) & engaged in other maladaptive &/or weird behaviors. reckless driving, dissociation, quasi-psychotic things, etc.
the past.... 3-4 years has been dealing with changing thought patterns & definitely changing coping mechanisms.

which is why... in a rather... ick (wording skills are failing me) way... drinking started as an ok thing. & in response to a bunch of stuff that in the past would've had me doing harmful things. & because in the later years all the above were done to points that could have (& according to some ought to have) been fatal... it's hard for me to 100% fully say "ok, I'm not going to drink regardless" because at this point it seems safer. (so long as I don't wait & let it progress. I know it can be very harmful & deadly.)

the core bit of me knows for certain that I will not allow myself to go back to past behaviors. I'm done with that. mistakes happen. I'm not perfect.
at the same time though... the past couple weeks have been rough (in giant bold neon letters.) & there's been an on/off urge to burn far more intense than any urge has been for many months. so then there's the "well... drinking is better..."

which is not an excuse or justification. I know full-well that it's not an either/or thing. just seems that way at times.

I do know that it scares me though. It really scares me that so many of my coping methods have been harmful... & many of my healthy ones are more active than I'm supposed to be for now. I feel like I'm dealing with a lot of new stuff & have very limited coping methods.

I do want to stop drinking. I don't want it to progress.
I want support with that... & I want support that understands that it can be scary & that there can be fear that's not limited to only alcohol.
it makes it.... tough for me to fully say "yes, there won't ever be a 'good' time to stop. it might as well be now." & easy to wonder if it'd be better to wait till other parts of life smooth out.

Nuudawn

Wow....you have a fairly chattering head don't you? I think I drank largely for that reason...to shut all that crap up. Do you really think anyone in church or AA cares about what percentage you buy into? If they are healthy, they shouldn't. Besides, I think most of us are too busy worrying about how "we" are coming off to worry about anyone else...sad as that may be. I do know that my grandiose self has humbled quite a bit since joining AA and that I actually do enjoy hearing about other lives and struggles everyday people endure in their everyday lives. Makes me feel connected.

I think the AA way is a good one and there has to be a doctrine. But the more you know about it, the more you realize how flexible the program truly can be. You will always have your Big Book and doctrine nazi's who are fairly black and white.... but AA seems to be the most diverse group of souls I have EVER seen...doesn't really matter who or what or what creed ya go by..as long as you want to quit drinking you can find a seat. Give it enough of a go...you'll find some like minds. You'll also find a few you may deem as total arseholes.

As Mallowcup already noted, Take what you want and leave the rest. There appears to be more restrictions/limitations and rigidity in your own mind than there actually is in AA. Don't be so hard on yourself...allow yourself to go anywhere..church or AA and take what you need.

Tazman53

I can assure you that will come in time.

BTW check out alcholism at NIH & NIAA, science knows that alcoholism is an incurable physical disease.
If you do then do it.

But you don't like AA!

Keep drinking and if you are like me and other folks who are alcoholics the other parts your life you are waiting to smooth out will simply get worse and new problems will surface.

earlybird

There are no 'definitions" of an alcoholic. Alcohol is causing chaos in your life. Why would you want to keep it around? Going to a couple AA meetings isnt NEARLY enough to make up your mind. You must attend many. Alot of times,....people dont attend AA enough times on purpose because they are afraid they will find out what they already know,......that they ARE alcoholic.

GlassPrisoner

I just realized tubesk, you went to one meeting ?!?!?

That's like me forming an opinion on philosophy after I visit a web page about Neitzch.

Earlybird has it right. I would suggest you go to at least 1/2 dozen or more, in rapid succession, before you form an opinion.

Tazman53

You are kidding GP right? My God man if some one were an alcoholic and was afraid to admit it that may lead them to do so which would lead to them not drinking! Are you crazy man, that could lead to a happy and bright future with no new alcohol related issues coming up!