Drinking = erasing progress?
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Originally Posted by mfanch 
I have been called "harsh". Want to know why? Alcoholism KILLS. As in DEAD. I can't afford to sugarcoat that fact so that someone doesn't get butthurt. I tell the truth as I know it to be.
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Originally Posted by Gottalife
It always striked me as odd that other "lifestyle" illnesses like diabetes and heart disease don't bring any shame at all.
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Location: canada
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But I am AWARE I am alcoholic, but am so ashamed of it, I don't feel I can accept it.
acceptance involves consent.
more than a grudging agreement.
i wasn't aware, as such, that i was alcoholic (as defined by AA), but was very aware for years that i had what i called a problem with alcohol.
which i thought i could get on top of. had to be able to get on top of. and it under control.
the lack of control was where my shame sat.
and those i heard about, who said they had no control, those weirdo AA people who admitted they were powerless, ....well, what could i think of those who abdicated power, control, agency, and responsibility over what they put in their mouth, for crying out loud????
acceptance was the turning point. giving consent it was indeed so. accepting my own experience of not being able to do otherwise at times.
and then taking responsibility.
in the taking of responsibility, in the going forward to do what i needed to do, the shame abated.
any of that make sense?
acceptance involves consent.
more than a grudging agreement.
i wasn't aware, as such, that i was alcoholic (as defined by AA), but was very aware for years that i had what i called a problem with alcohol.
which i thought i could get on top of. had to be able to get on top of. and it under control.
the lack of control was where my shame sat.
and those i heard about, who said they had no control, those weirdo AA people who admitted they were powerless, ....well, what could i think of those who abdicated power, control, agency, and responsibility over what they put in their mouth, for crying out loud????
acceptance was the turning point. giving consent it was indeed so. accepting my own experience of not being able to do otherwise at times.
and then taking responsibility.
in the taking of responsibility, in the going forward to do what i needed to do, the shame abated.
any of that make sense?
Giving up is NOT an option.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Western Wisconsin
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"in the taking of responsibility, in the going forward to do what i needed to do, the shame abated."
This was the key for me, too. I felt ashamed that I had a problem with alcohol... but really what I was ashamed of was that I didn't do anything about it for so long and allowed my life to get so out of control. When I admitted out loud to myself and others that I was an alcoholic and started taking ACTION to do something about it, my shame began to lessen.
This was the key for me, too. I felt ashamed that I had a problem with alcohol... but really what I was ashamed of was that I didn't do anything about it for so long and allowed my life to get so out of control. When I admitted out loud to myself and others that I was an alcoholic and started taking ACTION to do something about it, my shame began to lessen.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,308
I also a glad you are back, what you are going through and sharing openly and honestly is really useful in opening a dialog about certain aspects of AA or the program that people may question but reluctant to voice on this forum in fear of getting shot down while in a very vulnerable state.
I really related to Finis post, I hope you can to.
All the very best
CaiHong
I really related to Finis post, I hope you can to.
All the very best
CaiHong
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
Brenda, if you don't want to call yourself an alcoholic then don't. It is a loaded word and shameful to many people. I think you know you can't drink safely. So you might want to find a way to stop. If you want AA then great. Do it like your life depends on it. If you don't want to do AA then pick another program and give it everything. Many people have escaped the alcohol trap and they have left their insights. Use them. You are too valuable to die an alcoholic death. We all are.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
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Going to the original title question, does drinking erase progress, it is easy to get the impression that it does not. This is what you might call misinformation.
By reading a few days worth of posts you can get the idea that it is common for alcoholics to go out and drink for a while, then come back sick and tired and willing to recover, then go out again. It's been called a revolving door. It gives the dangerous impression that you can always come back when the opposite is true.
You can't always get back. There never was a guarantee. No one knows which will be the fatal first drink, the next one maybe?
My friend Zac went out after 10 years continuous sobriety. Nice guy, regular at meetings, friendly but a little distant. Did not sponsor, was a reliable secretary for years. When I heard, I thought his AA experience would help him. I couldn't have been more wrong. It had been totally erased, he was dead in three months.
So yes, a relapse can occur which will totally erase progress, or maybe it would indicate there was never much progress in the first place.
By reading a few days worth of posts you can get the idea that it is common for alcoholics to go out and drink for a while, then come back sick and tired and willing to recover, then go out again. It's been called a revolving door. It gives the dangerous impression that you can always come back when the opposite is true.
You can't always get back. There never was a guarantee. No one knows which will be the fatal first drink, the next one maybe?
My friend Zac went out after 10 years continuous sobriety. Nice guy, regular at meetings, friendly but a little distant. Did not sponsor, was a reliable secretary for years. When I heard, I thought his AA experience would help him. I couldn't have been more wrong. It had been totally erased, he was dead in three months.
So yes, a relapse can occur which will totally erase progress, or maybe it would indicate there was never much progress in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Time2Rise
I suspect they don't bring shame because heart disease and diabetes aren't always lifestyle related, or because lifestyle is only one variable in developing the disease. Although, I do agree that many forms of both disease can be prevented, or at least delayed by living a healthy lifestyle.
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I've had a lot of moments, usually around 3am or so, when the buzz had worn off and my mind was (relatively) clear... where I looked at myself and my whole life and realized I was wasting it... I did a lot of that last night... Sober since Sunday now, I have been having trouble getting to sleep but sleeping better once I do... My mind runs through a lot of things, it dwells on the past a lot, or else it turns to fantasy to protect from that, so it never really stops thinking, it's always trying to protect itself in some way from feeling pain from my past... there's so much, and that's why I drink, because it numbs everything.. It just really baffles me that when I try to sleep sober these things from a lifetime ago come up in my mind.. Smh
To tie in to the original discussion... I think going through the steps requires a lot of emotional energy that I don't have stored up yet... I'm not talking about energy and patience to think, I mean if I make a list of my faults, am I going to be able to do that without it breaking me down to where I go and have a drink... It's beginning to make sense to me now why people say you need to be sober first before you can do the work. I almost caved driving home Wednesday night and I was proud that I didn't. I can't keep giving in every time I have a craving if I want this to get better.
To tie in to the original discussion... I think going through the steps requires a lot of emotional energy that I don't have stored up yet... I'm not talking about energy and patience to think, I mean if I make a list of my faults, am I going to be able to do that without it breaking me down to where I go and have a drink... It's beginning to make sense to me now why people say you need to be sober first before you can do the work. I almost caved driving home Wednesday night and I was proud that I didn't. I can't keep giving in every time I have a craving if I want this to get better.
Giving up is NOT an option.
Join Date: Jan 2015
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I understand your fear about doing step 4. It can be daunting. I was scared. I told myself I didn't have to do it all at once. If I started feeling bad or anxious, I'd put it aside and go for a walk or something - call my sponsor, call another sober friend. Once I got going, though, it was easier than I thought. If it helps - don't think of it as a list of faults. Think of it as a list of defenses. As humans, we all try to defend ourselves from pain - it's only natural. That can come out sideways, hurting ourselves and others as a result.
For example - one of the things I was most ashamed of was that I lied a lot. I lied to protect myself from the reactions of others, and so that I didn't have to admit how much I was drinking and the things I did while drinking. Is that a fault? Sure. But I did it mainly for protection, at the time. I can forgive myself for that, because I really believed it was better to not be honest. I didn't want people to not like me and abandon me. My inner child was just wanting approval, and was afraid people would disapprove if they knew how bad things had gotten. In addition, I knew if I was honest with myself and others, I'd have to quit, and I wasn't ready to do that yet. When I became ready, I realized being honest with myself, and others, was the only way forward. So my lying was mainly a defense. You can apply the word defense to most, if not all, of the faults you believe you have.
Make any sense? As you work through step 4, and then do step 5 with someone trusted, you will feel such a sense of relief.
For example - one of the things I was most ashamed of was that I lied a lot. I lied to protect myself from the reactions of others, and so that I didn't have to admit how much I was drinking and the things I did while drinking. Is that a fault? Sure. But I did it mainly for protection, at the time. I can forgive myself for that, because I really believed it was better to not be honest. I didn't want people to not like me and abandon me. My inner child was just wanting approval, and was afraid people would disapprove if they knew how bad things had gotten. In addition, I knew if I was honest with myself and others, I'd have to quit, and I wasn't ready to do that yet. When I became ready, I realized being honest with myself, and others, was the only way forward. So my lying was mainly a defense. You can apply the word defense to most, if not all, of the faults you believe you have.
Make any sense? As you work through step 4, and then do step 5 with someone trusted, you will feel such a sense of relief.
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My mind runs through a lot of things, it dwells on the past a lot, or else it turns to fantasy to protect from that, so it never really stops thinking,.....
and the thing about that is that it cuts out the present. which is where you/we are.
and the thing about that is that it cuts out the present. which is where you/we are.
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Step One. Step One. Step One.
You can't get to four, you can't even get to two, without it.
AA actually does not require emotional work at the beginning (some would argue, at all - I've heard plenty of people who are satisfied with 1-3 and living their kind of sober life). It requires the desire to stop drinking. Then you start on Step One.
Do you want to stop more than you want to drink? That's the question.
You can't get to four, you can't even get to two, without it.
AA actually does not require emotional work at the beginning (some would argue, at all - I've heard plenty of people who are satisfied with 1-3 and living their kind of sober life). It requires the desire to stop drinking. Then you start on Step One.
Do you want to stop more than you want to drink? That's the question.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,541
No doubt you have had a difficult 5 days. The good news is that the symptoms of physical withdrawal should soon get better (even if they have not already).
"That's why I drink, because it numbs everything.. It just really baffles me that when I try to sleep sober these things from a lifetime ago come up in my mind."
Brenda, I'm not sure what sort of "past pain" you are referring to specifically, but people often use alcohol to deal with things like depression and severe anxiety. It might be a good idea to have an assessment by a mental health professional in order to see if there is some way they might also help. If this pain is from events that were a long time ago there is a very good chance that therapy could help.
I think going through the steps requires a lot of emotional energy that I don't have stored up yet... I'm not talking about energy and patience to think, I mean if I make a list of my faults, am I going to be able to do that without it breaking me down to where I go and have a drink
You have less than a week sober. Do not worry about step 4.
The steps are meant to be done IN ORDER and you have some work to do before you get to that step. That work should make step 4 much easier once you eventually get there. Step four can also be made much easier if you are working on a possible mental health issue at the same time (and you have support for that also).
Take care
"That's why I drink, because it numbs everything.. It just really baffles me that when I try to sleep sober these things from a lifetime ago come up in my mind."
Brenda, I'm not sure what sort of "past pain" you are referring to specifically, but people often use alcohol to deal with things like depression and severe anxiety. It might be a good idea to have an assessment by a mental health professional in order to see if there is some way they might also help. If this pain is from events that were a long time ago there is a very good chance that therapy could help.
I think going through the steps requires a lot of emotional energy that I don't have stored up yet... I'm not talking about energy and patience to think, I mean if I make a list of my faults, am I going to be able to do that without it breaking me down to where I go and have a drink
You have less than a week sober. Do not worry about step 4.
The steps are meant to be done IN ORDER and you have some work to do before you get to that step. That work should make step 4 much easier once you eventually get there. Step four can also be made much easier if you are working on a possible mental health issue at the same time (and you have support for that also).Take care
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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the 4th step, where we do a resentment,fear,and sex inventory, comes after the first 3 steps, which prepare us for them4th. each step prepares us for the next.
"Imean if I make a list of my faults, am I going to be able to do that without it breaking me down to where I go and have a drink."
whether you drink or not will be a choice, and i think past experience shows stuffing everything and drinking brought more mental and emotional pain than facing it all.
"Imean if I make a list of my faults, am I going to be able to do that without it breaking me down to where I go and have a drink."
whether you drink or not will be a choice, and i think past experience shows stuffing everything and drinking brought more mental and emotional pain than facing it all.
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Join Date: May 2014
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Originally Posted by August252015
Step One. Step One. Step One.
You can't get to four, you can't even get to two, without it.
AA actually does not require emotional work at the beginning (some would argue, at all - I've heard plenty of people who are satisfied with 1-3 and living their kind of sober life). It requires the desire to stop drinking. Then you start on Step One.
Do you want to stop more than you want to drink? That's the question.
You can't get to four, you can't even get to two, without it.
AA actually does not require emotional work at the beginning (some would argue, at all - I've heard plenty of people who are satisfied with 1-3 and living their kind of sober life). It requires the desire to stop drinking. Then you start on Step One.
Do you want to stop more than you want to drink? That's the question.
The next person who asks me if I want to stop
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Join Date: May 2014
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Guys, I know you have to do the steps in order and that I need to get some sober time first. It was just an example, and something that I realized while lying awake. I am not doing step four before doing step one, I'm dim but not a complete idiot.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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no one here thinks youre a complete idiot nor has anyone typed anything to make it sound like you are,brenda. what im reading is people who care and are concerned about your recovery and have read some of your statements, like this one
"I'm not "doing steps", I'm just working on what I need to work on for now and trying to find myself again."
that make us think yer jumpin all around the steps, which doesn't work too good- people helping guide you on how to do the steps and what they mean.
you really don't need to get sober time before starting the steps- at least no more than 24 hours. I did step one before I even went to my first meeting. step 2 and 3 were that night after the meeting.
"I'm not "doing steps", I'm just working on what I need to work on for now and trying to find myself again."
that make us think yer jumpin all around the steps, which doesn't work too good- people helping guide you on how to do the steps and what they mean.
you really don't need to get sober time before starting the steps- at least no more than 24 hours. I did step one before I even went to my first meeting. step 2 and 3 were that night after the meeting.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
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The only reason I addressed step 4 was that you brought it up. It seemed to be a source of anxiety for you. Doing the steps in order really does mean that you need not concern yourself about a step until you have completed the one prior to it. Looking ahead at the steps to anticipate of what it might be like is quite natural, but now that you've done this set aside your concerns until you are ready to actually work on that step. A sponsor can help quite a bit. The more so as they get to know you.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
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yes, doing that work required/took a lot of emotional energy. and, maybe odd-sounding to you, gave me lots of emotional energy at the same time.
i 've never had $ enough to be concerned with knowing about investments, but i know for certain that the energy i invested in doing the stuff has been a tremendous one!
i 've never had $ enough to be concerned with knowing about investments, but i know for certain that the energy i invested in doing the stuff has been a tremendous one!
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