August252015

[I was first going to post - Wow, there is a lot of misinformation and misuse of AA going on in this thread, with some posters!! Then I read the above - so...]

OK, here's "real talk from a real person:"
Step 1 - in my own words: "I simply couldn't stop drinking on my own. None of the rehabs or drs had gotten through to me and I flat out rebelled against every kind of program. I literally could not get started with my day without drinking to stop the shakes." Translation: powerless.

Step 1, b: "My life was completely out of control. I was drinking pretty much all day, every day, roughly a handle of vodka every two days. I was so sick and so exhausted I was barreling towards some kind of end point. My parents were sad, furious and frustrated beyond words, I had pushed away nearly all of my friends, and I was miserable." Translation: unmanageable.

Step 2: "I had always believed in (a Christian) God but I had run so far away from His will and plans for my life ("plans to prosper you and not to harm you," paraphrase) that I almost couldn't see straight. Nothing I did was based on how I was brought up. I was functioning on my own and my life was a disaster." Translation: I needed a HP to get my sh*t together, in all ways.

Step 3: "I thought I understood God but I wasn't actively working on that. I prayed and it was empty and I prayed for myself, mostly; I asked for things that I simply was not deserving of nor contributing to (health, self-sufficiency, etc) and certainly wasn't letting Him take care of me. " Translation: I had to give up and give in to letting my God take charge, and do the work to participate in his plan.

Step 4: "I had to face all the horrible, terrible, ghastly, disgusting things I had done. I had to admit how afraid I was, how mad I was, how slutty I was (emotionally and physically), ..... I stole wallets! I had an affair with a married man. I lied ALL the time- especially about money. God, I had long lists. And I had my mom at the top of my resentments, at the age of 40." Translation: fearless moral inventory.

Step 5: "God already knew all that crap but I had to sit and talk to Him about it. That part was also me admitting to myself- and well before I wrote step 4 out, it was all bouncing around in my recovering brain and heart. And I've been telling my sponsor about it for the last week. We are gonna keep talking about this stuff til I get it out and compartmentalize it - and I know some of it will surprise me when it hits me like it did last weekend after a meeting on grief." Translation: confession and admission, publicly and private.

That's all I got "officially" since I just did step 5.

I truly hope no one misuses the tenets and steps of AA, and has someone to guide them through the BB to see ALL the very real words written and spoken. Final note- each of the "characters" in the stories were actual people, not made up characters. The stories are very real.

skg

If someone has not done the steps, how can the steps be evaluated--and those who successfully recovered as a result of them? Boggles my mind what passes for recovery on these forums sometimes, and I am an advocate of more being revealed.
Call it programming, call it brain washing, call it whatever. My brain NEEDED washing when I came to the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous--not just because I had all the answers, but just because all the answers I had did not keep me from getting hammered every day and night.
This Spiritual Awakening as "the result of these steps," is as alarming to me as anyone, but I can say with surety that there is far more to not drinking than just not drinking.
Programming? How about a design for living that has taken me from near death experiences to reliance on God where all things are truly possible?
I truly came to the end of Self and wished for death. AA saved me from the finality of that choice. Go on with trial and error. I found the solution that is vastly inclusive for everyone. The only requirement? Trust in God and clean house.

sg1970

Brenda,

I hope you are still here reading. It works. It really does. It has worked for me for a couple of years now. But in the beginning you have to do whatever it takes to stay sober while you work the steps. I ate a lot of friggin ice cream, avoided places that sold alcohol, changed the music I listened to. There were several nights I just laid down and tried to go to sleep extra early just to make my head stop. That lasted about 3 months and it was miserable but after my fifth step it went away. You just have to do whatever it takes and it's rough but it's possible. Just hang in there.

Gottalife

This was a conclusion I eventually reached, but it was not immediately my start in AA. In fact, I knew I was dying and my doctor had reinforced that fact, and I needed a drink to help me get my head around that.

Admission of the problem, complete defeat sends people off in search of a solution. They might sign themselves into an asylum, join a gym, hit the church, move towns, etc. The realisation of the problem brings action, but it might be the wrong action.

A further example, something that happened when I was just new to AA. A man I never met, Neil M had battled to get sober for a considerable time, a number of years. After each failure he tried again. He tried and tried, kept coming back. It seems he was very popular, the other AA's prayed for him, tried to help, and there was no shortage of effort on his part.

For someone to make this kind of effort, they must have had a good reason. He obviously knew what the problem was, he had step one down pat, and he was going to any lengths, but still he did not recover. In the end he found his solution. Sober, he took his own life. He could see no hope, he felt a hopeless defeated alcoholic and he just gave up.

Step one provides the impetus to do the work, and total defeat is a prerequisite for spiritual experience, but it can also lead to other solutions and is not a solution in itself.

mick3580

Mike, that is powerful stuff. I love it.

Time2Rise

Hi Brenda, I hope you're still reading the responses here.

If you're not physically addicted and instead, you're struggling with the psychological addiction (the mental obsession) of drinking, there are tools available that can help you stay sober long enough for your Step-work to remove your obsession to drink.

These could include:

Urge surfing
Playing the tape through

In addition, the SMART Recovery website has many exercises and tools that can help you deal with cravings and urges while you do your Step-Work. Just google SMART Recovery tools for some great techniques to keep you sober in the short-term.

And as I'm sure you know, you can call other AA members when you have a desire to drink. And of course, you can always post here on SR and there will be members who can help you get through those periods when your desire to drink seems overwhelming.

Gottalife

A characteristic of people who stay sober is that they call their sponsor when they feel like drinking. Nearly everyone who calls, does not pick up. That is because some kind of defense is working at that moment.

What about those that pick up without calling? Why do they do that? Why not call. I was one such. The answer is it never occurred to me to call. My human defenses, of which calling was one, we're not operative. The almost certain consequences of taking the first drink did not flood into my mind to deter me.

There was a complete failure of the kind of defense that prevents one from putting their hand on a hot stove. At certain times the alcoholic is without defense against the first drink. Neither he nor any other human power can provide such a defense. It must come from a higher power. This is a point we wish to smash home to our alcoholic readers.

Such thoughts, if they occur at all, are usually hazy and easily supplanted with the idea that this time we will handle it.

These are the facts of my alcoholism as described in the big book of AA.

Brenda, I get the feeling you are like I was. There was never any thought around the first drink, I just found myself drinking and then filled with despair as I realized the cycle had started again. Why couldn't I stay stopped? The needed power wasn't there (YET).

dsmaxis10

I'd call my sponsor and tell him I want to drink he would talk to me and I would get in my car while talking to him go to the store and by alcohol. The big book says you have no mental defense from the first drink your defense must come from God, Yes God a higher power won't work for the real alcoholic it has to be the one God the big book says one God and exactly who it is.

BrendaChenowyth

There seems to be a misunderstanding... A perfect example of it is two posts up
"Brenda, I get the feeling you are like I was. There was never any thought around the first drink, I just found myself drinking"
I know we can only base our opinions and form advice based on what we've read so far. That is not the case for me. I am not the person that gives no thought to drinking and just does it and whines about the feelings of shame afterwards.

I find myself no more understood among other self-proclaimed alcoholics as I am around folks who can drink or not drink as they choose and can't figure out why it's a problem for me.

I did receive a couple PMs telling me to revisit my thread because some good advice was shared, and I hesitated to come back in here...

dsmaxis I am working on rebuilding a relationship with God, because I know I need that... since I let that back in to my life, I have felt better, sometimes.. and then something would happen where I would just become exhausted and feel like crap again and not care at all... After ten years of having completely shut out God and anything having to do with religion, it's going to take me a minute to feel this out... I'm learning to place my trust in something that's no longer familiar to me. I can't trust people and things that have been a daily part of my life. I can't trust myself.

I'm not "doing steps", I'm just working on what I need to work on for now and trying to find myself again... And I need to do it away from people who have their own ideas of what an alcoholic MUST do or CAN NOT do in recovery, because it just makes me feel discouraged and weak, as I run a mental tally of all the things I'm doing wrong.

Gottalife

"I'm not "doing steps", I'm just working on what I need to work on for now and trying to find myself again.."

There is a certain inconsitency here. You are either following the AA program as best you can and have not yet found a defence against the first drink, which is what I took your initial post to mean, or you are off doing your own thing and whining about members who respond on the basis of your first post.

Many relpies suggested areas where folks have run into problems before, including first step reservations. I am beginning to think those posters were on the right track.

awuh1

Brenda I'm very pleased you decided to return. I would encourage you to do whatever you feel you need to do. You are just beginning to grapel with staying sober and I know that it's a very difficult time for you.

I have noticed a tone in this thread that is at times, well, a bit harsh. I'm very sorry to see that. IMO you will currently benefit much more from support than from confrontation. Please try to take a tolerant view of those who have been (in my opinion) a bit harsh. I have read other things from many of them and I generally trust that these folks have their hearts in the right place. People sometimes give out what THEY needed in early sobriety, but that's not always what is needed by a person they are responding to.

One suggestion. Have you worked with a physician around detoxing? If not this might be something that could help enormously and help you get a good start on the steps.

In any case, the path you take is yours. I wish you all the best.

Berrybean

Okay. So, you're not "doing steps". I'm presuming from you saying that you're staying away from people with ideas of what alcoholics must or can do in their recovery that you're not working with a sponsor, or taking suggestions either. And probably not reaching out and contacting people in the fellowship outside of meetings.

So, yes. I'm experiencing confusion here. AA has the steps, fellowship and service. I'm just not sure what part of AA you're referring to, as service would be further down the line and you seem to be resisting everything else.

Making a mental tally of things I was doing wrong wouldn't have helped me either. What did help was accepting that some of the ways I was doing things or thinking about things was, while not 'Wrong', certainly not condusive to a serene and sustainable recovery. So, one thing at a time, I listened to the poeple who seemed like they had the kind of sobriety that I'd want for myself, and did some of the things that they did, instead of carrying on with my old faulty ways. Because I realised that if nothing changes, then nothing can change. And I was miserable and hated being me and doing the kind of things I did and saying the kinds of things I said. And as I stopped beating myself up about the things I did wrong and focussed instead on the different way of doing things, I realised things were, slowly, getting better. I was getting better.

We are not bad people. We are not the things we have done, or those old defensive and hurt behaviours. When we stop doing the things we don't like, like chipping away at our old selves, then we start to find out what is underneath it. That is scary at first, but mostly, as we catch those first glimpses of what is underneath then we want to speed the process up, and we find more willingness as we learn to trust the process.

The thing is. I wanted to change. And whether that was through AA or not, I would have had to stop doing and being what I was if that was going to happen. Some people manage to do it alone, but I didn't know where to start. I didn't really understand where I was going wrong. And the beauty of AA for me, was that I could learn where I was going wrong. Not so I could keep score of what a rotter I was, but so that I could act on it, and learn how to avoid keeping making the same mistakes over and over.
I did try going to counselling, but was not able to be honest enough for her to be of much help to me. I just couldn't bring myself to say anything about myself that would make her think badly of me. My defenses were up, and although I could hear myself adapting the truth - sanitising things as it were - I just couldn't be honest with her. That's when I realised that the steps could help me (I'd been sober a while at that point but didn't want to live and hated myself and my life - how much longer I'd have stayed sober is questionable ). Up til then I thought that the steps and sponsorship was for the more hard-core alcoholics, and that I wasn't as bad as 'them'. It took a long while for me to understand that my alcoholic thinking is what made me like 'them'. And in fact I was and AM them. Lol.

Anyway. I'm glad that you're still around, even if not posting so much. I did wonder and have said a few prayers that you were okay when I read the thread before.

I know you're adverse to suggestions, but just on the lines of coming closer to God, I hope you won't mind me recommending a book to you. It is called Accidental Saints, and is written by an alcohol in recovery who is now a Lutheran priest. Her name is Nadia Bolz-Weber, and she writes so beautifully, with strength and conviction, about God's grace, and coming to terms with our own imperfections that it made beautiful reading for me. There is quite a lot of swear words in it, but the message is pure and clear. You might find it heart warming and encouraging as well.

Wishing you all the best for your recovery. BB

mfanch

I have been called "harsh". Want to know why? Alcoholism KILLS. As in DEAD. I can't afford to sugarcoat that fact so that someone doesn't get butthurt. I tell the truth as I know it to be.

I am so grateful that people were REAL with me instead of making sure I "felt" good. All hail the programmed robots!!! Last time I checked, AA IS a PROGRAM. It's purpose is PROGRAMMING. It is how we rewire our brains.

We are a program of attraction, not promotion. I was called out on my crap early on and it made me so angry. BUT they were RIGHT. Right all along. It was *I* who needed to change. One of two things was going to change in my life: my attitude or my sobriety date. I had a choice. Half measures failed me.

I have a 3 part illness. I have a physical allergy (I CANNOT drink), but I have a mental obsession (that tells me I CAN)....this is conundrum is caused by a SPIRITUAL MALADY. When I was READY, I came into AA and went to ANY LENGTHS to get sober.....the biggest ones were quitting the debating society and to cease fighting.

Glad you are here.

BrendaChenowyth

I've never gotten help with detoxing. Just try to white-knuckle it. As my mother dismissively explains to me "So, you feel like you have the flu for a couple of days, whoop-de-do, get over it". Other times asks me to hold out my hands to see if I have a tremor and proceeds to cry and go on a tirade about "where did I go wrong as a parent". I digress.

And yes, I know as a nursing student (currently not in classes) it's a serious health risk to quit habitual alcohol use cold turkey. She knows it, with decades as a nurse, as well. But that's still the kind of "support" I am used to. "Get over it." Just don't drink. Just don't do it.

48 hours, no tremors, no headaches... I don't know if detoxing has been the big problem for me, even after periods of around the clock drinking.. maybe those periods didn't last all that long...

I think I do have a lot of trouble with the acceptance that I am an alcoholic... There's so much shame attached to it, for me. I guess not everyone feels that way. But I am AWARE I am alcoholic, but am so ashamed of it, I don't feel I can accept it.

BrendaChenowyth

I have a Twelve and Twelve. As I said starting this thread, I've been working on those first couple steps (I know, it doesn't count because I still drank eventually!)

mfanch

It does count. Now you know how NOT to do it. I once tried to do the 12 steps with just a big book and a bong. Didn't work. I drank. Just like all the other times I tried to do things my way.

***WE*** admitted WE were powerless. Do you have a sponsor? If not, I would get a temporary one TODAY. Are you going to daily meetings? If not I recommend them. If your town doesn't have that many, then a commitment to get to however many per week so that you can hear the solution to the drink problem and begin to offer service (even if it is giving your number to a person who has one less day than you or making coffee or setting up chairs). Get a Big Book and read it.

If you need some drying-out time, perhaps a detox first. Get the alcohol out of your body and THEN jump into the program with both feet.

Feel free to PM me anytime. :-)

mfanch

mfanch

I was here for a long time. I came to an end point eventually: alcoholic death or help.

I will tell you, I chose alcoholic death and was headed there as I knew at least it would be on MY terms and that I was convinced that I would never REALLY be able to quit drinking....(much less ever be happy not drinking).

You are not alone.

awuh1

My comments are not directed at anyone except BC. There is a tone that is sometimes adopted with new folks that I believe has the oposite effect from what is intended. I mention this only because it might be true. Only BC (in the long run) will have the best perspective on what was most helpful.

Brenda, Your mother was (is?) able to put alcohol behind her with the use of her will power alone. Some people can do this and some cannot. When those that can tell those who can't that all they need is a decision to leave it alone, it can make the person struggling feel inadequate, weak or somehow less than.

You're not any of these things. You may simply have a different sort of problem than your mother understands. Some of us had a complete inability (long term) to leave it alone, and I have a feeling you may be one of us. That does not make you weak or somehow less than anyone else. It just means you need more help than you can muster all by yourself. You have started to ask for that help by coming here, and beginning to work the steps. That's a good start. Next I would suggest you admit your mother is wrong about the nature of your problem. IMO this makes her shaming you completely inappropriate. Perhaps she will understand this one day, and perhaps so will you.

August252015

BC - what is it that you DO want? Lots of stuff going on in this thread and I am unsure what your bottom line truly is.

Gottalife

[QUOTE=
I think I do have a lot of trouble with the acceptance that I am an alcoholic... There's so much shame attached to it, for me. I guess not everyone feels that way. But I am AWARE I am alcoholic, but am so ashamed of it, I don't feel I can accept it.[/QUOTE]

It always striked me as odd that other "lifestyle" illnesses like diabetes and heart disease don't bring any shame at all.

Acceptance was something I struggled with. I hear it said "acceptance is the answer" but how does it work? If you go to enough meetings will it come through the rafters and hit you in the head?

I have had a bit of time to think about this. I knew I was alcoholic at least a year before I stopped drinking. I would tell my friends, such as they were, that I would have to stop one day. But I still held on to a hope that one day I would get on top of it, or that my problems would turn out to be from some other cause. So I had admitted I was alcoholic, but still thought I had options.

Its a progressive disease. Like a man standing on the railway track could admit there is a train coming that will flatten him if he doesn't get out of the way, I stayed on the railway line hoping against hope that the train would miss me. It had to get real close before I took any action.

That simple choice, face an alcholic death or live life on a spiritual basis. So I took some action and got off the line.

I think when I had both admission of the problem, and some action on a solution, I was demonstrating real acceptance of the reality of my situation.

I also have come to belive that admission without action is bordering on denial. That train might be coming but it won't get me.