McGowdog

A group can do what it wants how it wants so long as it doesn't affect A.A. as a whole.

In my region, we have open meetings and closed meetings. Closed meetings are for alcoholics. Open meetings are for alcoholics, family of alcoholics, alanon members, etc. But the sharing in that meeting is for the alcoholics and they must stay on topics as they relate to alcoholism.

Intolerence from our past included things of gender, race, creed, socio-economic status, etc. They evolved to remove their intolerence, but it had nothing to do with whether you were an alcoholic or not. Times around intolerence have changed for the better, but we're talking about alcoholism here. This is in fact the 12 Step Support subforum, right?

Music

It isn't about anyone deciding anything separate from the person who comes to AA for help. The steps are there and the traditions are there. Read them, respect them and live by them or don't come around. Just that simple. Most of us came to AA undisciplined and self-centered; not wanting to go by anyone's rules and not wanting to be told what/what not to do. Well, it's time to change that atitude and go with the flow. As far as judging goes, I don't judge good or bad, I judge right and wrong. I don't judge people but I do judge their actions. Like I said in my last post. If you come to a meeting I happen to be at and say or do anything against the steps or traditions, I will call you on it. Don't like it?? Start your own program. That's how AA got started.

brother

I agree with McGowdog “But we are addicted to that state of consciousness, not the drug or the alcohol.”

What I’m addicted to is the feeling, the release into comfort.

I identify first with the Doctor’s Opinion “Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false.”
I do not identify with the phrase “Remember that we deal with alcohol-cunning, baffling, powerful!” - imo, its focus is on the substance.


Now just to stir the pot, I pass on this, from an old-timer & AA guardian; “Nowhere in the Traditions does it state ‘no drug talk’ - drug addiction is mentioned in the Doctor’s Opinion.”


Quotes from Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st Edition.

24hrsAday

My Problem Began With Pot.. And Ended with Alcohol..

navysteve

Because one guy says he asked people in a group ( or thousands of groups) and only one person raised their hand says nothing. That isn't very scientific at all. Now lets get real, under 21, what is easier to get, Weed or whiskey? Ok, I can see that. But please lets not base an argument on this one guy who started ICYYPA because he asked thousands of people. How was the question posed? Where did peer conformity come into play.


Sir,
Just because we do not see things your way does not make us intolerant. We can see the evidence all over of what happens when AA tries to be all things to all people. Everyone suffers. The alcoholic, the addict, AA and NA suffer.

This is an old argument in AA. No member of AA who has any understanding would turn a drug addict away from an open AA meeting. And no one who works any kind of program would not offer real help to an addict who showed up looking for help. But none of that equates to turning an AA meeting into an NA meeting. Once upon a time AA members helped addicts start up a fellowship so they could help each other. Jimmy K and other pioneers of NA started NA for a reason.

If only one alcoholic in a thousand did not use other drugs then that person deserves a place where they can get help. I don't think you understood my statement about not going to church to discuss my taxes.

CStyle

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER

Sober25

In my humble opinion, the fear is that if AA is not preserved, then at some point, it will not be AA. The Big Book promotes and suggests only one program of recovery - the 12 steps. That is opposed to the common belief that if we come to many meetings and get a sponsor/guru to answer all our questions and solve all our problems we might get lucky and stay sober today.

As for the druggies, I personally have no problem with them (since I did many drugs myself) as long as they have a desire to stop drinking. That is the focus for me. I don't care what all they did but if they plan on getting off drugs and still drink then they should not be sharing that at an AA meeting, nor should they be considered AA members.

I think our fears are understandable. I know what saved my life - the 12 steps and those wonderful people who taught me that they could save my life. If it were not for them, and all who truly care about the integrity of our fellowship then it would eventually be just a bunch of confused people trying to help one another - the blind leading the blind.

Let anyone come who truly has a desire to stop drinking, but they must meet that requirement to be and AA member.

queenof7

Just this last week I seen a newcomer straight out of treatment introducing themselves as an addict only. Of course my curious mind wondered why she chose to come to AA instead of NA. I always felt like those blatant addict intros in AA meetings are disrespectful it's kind of an attitude of "I'm an addict NOT an alcoholic and I am go wherever I want, when I want, and how I want" that attitudue is an unhealthy symptom of addiction but then that is just my opinion.

Anyways...Good discussion guys I enjoy this forum and am happy I found SR

Bob23

And drug addicts need to be more tolerant of AA members safeguarding the Message against any and all circumstances that might dilute it.

Recently, I started sponsoring a young man who's a drug addict, and like you it seems, thought he heard about the solution in an AA meeting. I even started a thread about that here, but it was closed shortly thereafter. Although he admitted alcohol was a problem for him, he still identified himself as an addict in meetings. It took a while, but I was able to help him understand the 'singleness of purpose' of AA.

The Third Tradition makes room for anyone with willingness.

CStyle

This is part of the problem....People come out of treatment and they identify themselves as addicts, even if their problem was mainly alcohol. Why, because treatment is teaching people that the term addict included alcoholics. A drug is a drug is a drug. Again I refer to the quote about contempt prior to investigation. These "Addicts" could very well be alcoholics. We have a member of our hg who announces herself as (even though I don't agree with this for other reasons) as "addicted to recovery" she started coming because she had anger issues, depression issues, and liked the spirituality and positiveness of people she met in the group. After about 6 months of this she started sharing about how her main way to cope with all of this was by drowning it out with alcohol. Shocker ....she realized she was an alcoholic.

How simple would it have been for the group to "put the hammer down" on her and squash her chance of recovery, because she was not identifying herself the way we thought she should.

Ribeye

What you seem to be saying here is that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of the traditions is not being led by the spirit of a loving God.
This is an example of self righteousness, which is not a spiritual commodity.


The fact is that there are many true spiritual priciples which seem to be in conflict all the time. How can we overcome our disease by surrender ? How can we gain strength by submiting our own will over the care go God or the group ? Why does God allow us to suffer if he loves us ? And......how can we help more people with singleness of purpose than by being all things to everyone ?

In all honesty, you seem to be projecting your own intolerance, fear and arrogance on everyone you engage with. This debate is as old as AA itself.
Bill and Bob both abused drugs. It says so in their stories. Yet they both understood the need to have singleness of purpose in order to be of maximum usefulness.

Why don't you reflect on that for a while. People in AA get the best results when they conform themselves to the principles of the program (ie. spiritual principles) rather than trying to bend the principles to conform to themselves.

Kjell

I am both. I usually did both on varying levels and varying substances, but alcohol was always present. For the longest time I thought my only problem was all the drugs, but it turned out it was anything I did to bend my mind and sure enough alcohol became my biggest problem.

When I came into AA this last time, my very life (and those in my community) depending on it (and still does).

I got a sponsor and one of the few things he instructed me to do was only introduce myself as an alcoholic.

I came in, sat down, showed up, and shut up. I will continue to do so. Day 22 for me and I ain't rock'n this boat. It's my lifeline and many others before and after me. It's bigger than me, bigger than my sick thoughts, bigger than my selfish wishes. We all depend on this program as it is.

navysteve

Amen- That quote about contempt goes both ways

hendershot

some of the intolerance and ego that some self-professed AAers have in this thread towards even mentioning drugs in an AA meeting is mind-boggling. If AA were really about exclusivity and enforcing strict rules (rules that don't actually exist), I would have drank or drugged myself to death because I wouldn't have made it past the first meeting. Some people like wrap themselves in knots trying to rationalize the third tradition to mean something beyond the desire to stop drinking. In actuality, all you need is a desire, not even an honest desire, you don't have to identify yourself as an alcoholic or anything. If you are an AAer and offended when people start talking about drugging at AA meetings you are the one with the problem, not the person sharing. Drugs exist and there are very few pure alcoholics left. At its core, for me, AA is about helping others. I could care less whether that person thinks of themself as an 'addict' or whatever. Showing up to the meeting is worth the price of admission. Absolutely.

THEGREG101

You see I dont the in past anymore, I have delt with that and put it behind me, what ever it might be, overeating, drinking too much, doing drugs, spending too much money. The thing is that I know I won't get drunk again because I am the only one responsable for those actions, God is not going to fix them becauce I give my free will to him, He expects me to do what is right and to know the difference between right and wroung.

Today I live for today, right now, because now is all we ever have. Because who knows what, or if might happen even an hour from now.

basIam

I re-read my post and realized that this was ambiguous.

Let me rephrase. . .

Does this mean a non-heavy drinker, heavy drug abuser is prohibited from becoming a member? Absolutely not! Again read the pamphlet.

THEGREG101

Hey I am glad it works for you all, but remember to be tolorant of those that it didnt work for and dont call all of us a bunch of dry mean drunks, because we are not, some of us have made the choice in life to try a different way to recover.

Mark75

Greg, Hey... we are not talking about dry drunks... and if you use another way to recover... TERRIFIC... good for you, really... but this is the 12 Step Forum... it's probably the only safe for us AA's to talk openly and freely about AA without getting accused of forcing it down your throat... please introduce yourself over in secular or newcomers or alcoholism if you want to talk about how much AA sucks...

Thanx

nelco

there is lots of good literature to read on the singleness of purpose and its mostly ignorance that keeps people misunderstanding its need. We cannot be all things to all people. I recently listening to a guy speaking on this topic and he explains through the history and our literature. I hope some of you also find it helpful....

XA-Speakers - The lights are on!

john-s-sopgulfshores2009.mp3

Pinkcuda

My opinion is that if anyone that isn't an alcoholic is welcomed into an AA meeting they may want to consider the fact that the meeting is AA in name only. Alcoholics Anonymous meetings are for Alcoholics. Hence the name. Addicts are welcome but you still need to be an alcoholic to be a member. If you're not an alcoholic than you are a "Visitor" regardless of what you call yourself
Open meetings are no less AA meetings. If you're not an alcoholic than you are a "Visitor" regardless of what you wish to call yourself. With that, your dollar should be handed back per tradition #7