bob_sapp

I get pretty sick of new comers bitching about how hard it is right off the bat in sobriety. I have 3 and a half years sober, and I don't know but some days it feels like hell. I wake up in the morning feeling fine, then I basically just step on the wrong tile and I'm mentally trapped in hell again, and I spend however long I'm forced to in there. One day, days, whatever. Then I pass out and wake up one day not caring and I have some good days again.

I did everything they told me in AA. I am very productive work/school wise, I've been going to the gym faithfully for 4+ years, I try to go to AA twice a week or more, I hang out with other AA's, I'm seeing a counselor, I even go to church now. It feels like no matter what, I'm still alone and single, wishing I could drink so I could be part of the world. I'm 25, and don't know how many years I have to do this. Some days I've just had it. I'm oscillating between burning anger, the urge to drink, or feeling like I'm paralyzed and looking up from a deep pit of despair. This is one of those days.

I still want to drink most of the time. I don't see anyone doing anything but drinking. I feel like I've tried everything, and AA people don't know what to tell me. Or they just aren't there.

I've been seeing a counselor and he wonders if I might have serotonin deficiency. I wonder if I'm brain-damaged from cocaine and morphine, and now I can't feel good except momentarily through binge drinking, drugs, the rush of physical violence, money, or empty, soul-destroying sex that leaves me feeling more alone than ever.

If I go back, I'm on death row. This feels like life in prison, a lifetime to think about how I messed up and it's all my fault. As bad as I feel somedays, I feel a worse impending doom. Like I'm just waiting to get crushed by a crane or get cancer, then I'll really know what hell is.

I realize you probably have zero advice, but I thought I'd share what's really going through my head instead of BSing you or staying silent.

SelfSeeking

Damn, bob.... You're right, I don't have any advice atm and I'm on my way to work, but I still wanted to say I'm so sorry you're in pain. I'm sure more people will be along tonight. *hugs*

AW2486

Bob, Is this how you have always felt? In the years growing up before alcohol and drugs?

I've been thinking lately how far back this thing has affected me. I hear from nearly every podium speaker about they grew up not fitting in, not being apart of. Chuck C called us people who could not connect with society, and ultra sensitive. I felt like a loser with a huge ego growing up. Always had to put on an act so nobody would find out who I really was. Fearful - lonely, and the cure ... alcohol. It instantly removed all that crap. And then sobriety. I spent 5 years in AA feeling the same way I did when I was growing up. A sober loser with a big ego. What gave me the same answer that alcohol did was when I removed the barrier between me and my HP. That happened after the 5th step.

Hang in there and keep posting.

Praying for you.

FightingIrish

Thanks for being honest. I sometimes feel like that too. I had depression my first year and took medication. We tried a few things, they worked for a bit, and then I stopped my medication because it was causing me sleep disturbances. But I never became very depressed after that. At that particular point I was too busy to think about it.

I was interested when you said you're alone and single. I am 37, and every relationship I had from the age of 26 until I got sober about 18 months ago was fueled by drugs, booze, or at the very least a vision of myself that doesn't exist anymore and that may never have existed. So I feel like a broken toy in need of an island sometimes.

But here's the thing, somehow, along the way, I came to realize that, if I did actually believe that a higher power could restore me to sanity, I couldn't possibly know all the details of the plan. That's a fancy way of saying, I can't predict the future and can't know for sure that anything will or won't happen. Today I am capable of being surprised by life, by who comes along, by what happens, etc.

I still think I have depression, that is, I can see the shape of it in just about everything I do. But somehow, I have managed to let it go. It doesn't rule me. When these moods set in lately, it's like I can see it, feel it, experience it, but it's at a distance. I'm separate from it and do not identify myself with it. I don't know how this happened, but I can tell you that I once felt like you describe all the time. The only thing that would break through that mood was hypermania or alcohol.

Step Six and Seven are crucial for letting go of these defects and faulty narratives that keep me self-centered and from being useful. I have also been meditating a lot more and have been capable of sitting still for long periods of time. Yesterday a two hour train ride went by in a flash...I used to have to get wasted in order to make it through stuff like that.

I'm babbling, but it was good to hear some honest reporting here, and I hope things get better for you.

24hrsAday

honesty.. that is the key. for me i feel better now than i have in many years.. but.. i know that i must continue to work the program.. go to meetings.. stay focused on doing the next right thing.. and never forget that i am still a sick alcoholic..

Mark75

Perhaps with the alcohol and drugs you were actually, on some level, self medicating... depression (serotonin deficiency...)? Dopamine "burn out" from cocaine? Bipolar?...

Just thinking out loud... keep working with your doc... maybe what your feeling is not simply a sobriety/grief thing... I don't know...

Sorry your feeling so bad... glad your trying to do all the right things and looking for relief.

Mark

desertdonna

I'd go back and talk to your doctor. Your brain chemicals may not be firing correctly, and no amount of "doing all the right things" may be helping at this point. And it's not necessarily drinking that caused it.

There is nothing wrong with this and is not your fault. I believe it's much more common than many let on.

So talk to your doctor. There might be the right med that can help you out here that might make all the difference in how you feel.

Good luck, and hang in there.

Big hug,

Donna

bob_sapp

Thanks... I feel better now... I went to work and now I'm tired and feel better. I just get scared that one day I'll snap and drink. I talk about how I feel so now I feel crazy after I get it out. I used to just numb it or hide it. Dunno what to say now.

I'm very wary about meds. It's such a long process to find a decent doctor who can even just give helpful words. I'm a complex person, and the addiction and other things bounce off each other. Maybe I should look into it again.

aasharon90

Ahhhh the growing pains in recovery. I use to
think 30 was too young to be in AA especially
when id sit in meetings surrounded by older
men and women.

As time went on and the more meetings i
went to i eventually began to feel a part
of the fellowship and that age didnt matter.

It's good that u come here to share ur
thoughts and feelings because now u
know that ur not alone.

Im very grateful that the desire to drink
was lifted from me from the very beginning.

Going to rehab back in 1990 and picking
up the tools and knowledge of my disease
helped me learn to live one day at a time
with the 12 steps and principles set down
before us in AA.

I learned that alcohol was poison to me and
as it did try to kill me then, it would surely
get me again if i drink.

It's not an option for me to drink. I tried so
many times to control my drinking and it always
failed. I dont have to think about what if
one day i can drink sucessfully. Or maybe
one day i will.....

Cause it aint gonna happen.

To drink today, tomorrow, 10 yrs from now,
ill surely die.

I live on a one day at a time schedule and
have been for some 18 yrs. Its a matter
of living the steps in my everyday affairs.

Before u know it it becomes a part of u.

No friends, loner, isolater.....i am happy today.
Newly married, no fuss no muss.....I enjoy
the beauty of my life with clearer vision. No
fog, no hanngover, no worry.

I rode on a motorcycle maybe once in the
past and little did i know how much i would
really enjoy the freedom of riding. Well, learning
to ride solo....right now im just a passanger.

At 50 im in a new chapter of my life. Happier
than i ever been all because i live the steps
in my life and i share my experiences, strengths
and hopes with others.

That my friend is my soul purpose in life today.

I cant keep my sobriety if i dont give what was
so freely passed on to me over the yrs.

It's what u call being responsible.

I Am Responsible. And that is why I am where
I am today living happy joyous and free
from alcohol.

Dime

Hi Bob,
I am a heck of a lot older than you are and I can relate to a lot of what you are going through. The one thing that concerns me is that you feel like you are missing something by not drinking. That is a very dangerous thought indeed.

If I may pass on to you what I think really helps me from not having that thought is that I work with other alcoholics. Getting those calls and hearing every day about all the associated problems with alcohol I believe really has had an impact on my perception of alcohol. Today I wouldn't want to drink the dang stuff if I could. I just hear so often what it does to wonderful people and their families it just is not worth the grief that it can cause.

Congrats on your sobriety, fantastic job! I hope you are feeling better soon.

JJB

[QUOTE=FightingIrish;2213044]
I'm babbling, but it was good to hear some honest reporting here,

I don't think you're babbling at all and i found what you said really interesting and helpful. Thanks for this thread

Tommyh

Bob,a guy I sponsor is going thru the same thing.He is 27,5 yrs sober.We have talked and about the only thing we can do is to get back on the steps in a deeper way that we did the first time.After we get done,if he stills feel that way,he is going to the Doctor.As a alcoholic,thats about all I can suggest to him within the scope of AA.

Mark75

Probably...

YES!! Look into it... meds may scare you, and I think everyone should maintain a healthy skepticism when it comes to pharmaceuticals... But it's not just about feeling better when you are sober... it's about STAYING sober... and you may feel that your sobriety is at risk...., maybe if the doc suggests medication...... consider this:

whatever risk you may assume from the medication might be less than the risk of losing your sobriety.

Just a thought...

Mark

keithj

Bob,

It is a pretty common experience. Some around here call it the 5 year crisis, but it can happen at anytime in sobriety. It's just that thing where you bottom out in sobriety. From some of your other posts, it sounded like maybe you've never had that 4th dimension experience talked about in the book. Either way, you're not having it now, and I bet you can change it.

A number of people I know have gotten through this to something much better by working all of the steps again. Just like a newcomer. A handful of us are starting a new go around this weekend, with sobriety ranging from 1 month to 19 years. Just a small group comitted to going through the steps and having a new experience. Not because anyone is desperate, but just because the new experience is so rewarding.

At the very least, doing some searching and fearless inventory is always good for me. I make it a rule that if anything is bugging me, and hangs on for more than a couple of days, I write inventory on it, take it to my sponsor, go through 6,7,8,9 with it.

Others have found a new experience with a new meeting. A guy I know with 14 years quality (I mean he does the deal and is happy) joined our book study group a couple years ago, and the program just came alive for him all over again. He is truly walking in the sunshine of the spirit because of this meeting. He had grown weary of the common open discussion meetings with a lot of problem sharing and little solution.

Are you working with new guys? That is vital to my continued sobriety. And suggested over and over in our Big Book. I've found much joy in working with others, and it keeps me in the steps. It doesn't substitute for my own step work, but it sure is rewarding.

Don't be satisfied with that gray limbo of sobriety. Sure, sometimes you just have to walk through the dark times, and working your way out is counter productive. But shake something up. Get real serious about writing 10th step every night. Change your prayer and meditation routine. Get to know that higher power of yours. Recently I've been focused on more meditation. Just quiet time listening and being comfortable with a higher power.

Hope some of that helped. I know that saying out loud that this isn't working is a move in the right direction.

Music

I guess I was just lucky. I had sponsors early on who planted the idea in my head that gratitude was the attitude to have in order to make it in AA. Just a simple "thank you" to God each night, and a request to help me to stay sober the next morning, just for that day helped me to be grateful. Of course, I had to do some footwork in the process. For over two years, my sponsor and I met on Mondays to drive 45 miles to Chicago to attend a meeting at Catholic Charities with the guys off the street. I joined a volunteer group at Lutheran General Hospital so that once or twice a month I was able to visit inpatients who were undergoing treatment for alcohol and drugs. Walking into and out of locked wards and seeing people yellow with liver problems helped me to be grateful and come to know the meaning of "there but for the grace of God go I."

Maybe two meetings a week isn't enough. Maybe they're not the right kind. There are jail meetings, meetings at detox centers and halfway houses that can help us get grateful so that when we wake up sober, if nothing else goes right that day, at least we have that to hold on to.

Sobriety comes with a pricetag. Sobriety has to come first before school, jobs, family and friends and virtually everything else, otherwise it doesn't get the attention and respect needed to be happily sober. Not drinking is the eastiest part of being sober.

PaulN

Sobriety vs. recovery.

Sobriety AND recovery

I got here at 24 Bob, so I was young too. Didn't take me years to hit the bottom. I looked around and had the same thoughts you described. Only until I changed. I ended up following a lead of an alcoholic who took the steps. He made it clear I didn't have to understand it all as I took one, but after doing so, I'd better understand why I did.

I hang with AA's too. Today I choose it to be the ones who live the program, not just attend it. No accusations behind that, just my experience with what I went through.

You didn't get sober to miserable. More importantly, you don't have to miserable to be sober. Being sober though, isn't the goal, is it? Recover my friend, recover. It doesn't have to be the way it is.

I admire your honesty ... now do something about it ... take some action. I promise you, it'll get better once you do.

Puddy

Respectfully disagree - that is exactly the road I went down starting in 2003 - with serotonin boosting antidepressants and sleep aids. Fast forward to 2008, I was more strung out than I've ever been in my life, and those meds had STOPPED WORKING, AND BEGAN KILLING ME. I've never known a hell like that and I hope I never do again.

Found out that what was missing from my life was - more meetings than twice a week (I also was only going to two a week) - full on fellowship involvement, rigorous work on the twelve steps, long, serotonin and dopamine boosting walks around the lake, and gentle Kundalini Yoga, which is very gentle. I highly recommend the DVD "Kundalini Yoga to Detox and De-Stress" by Maya Fiennes, it's very gentle and works on the brain and nervous system. Anyone can do it.

Take long walks, go through the 12 steps with a sponsor, get more involved in the fellowship, and try that Yoga - and you may find that not only do you not need dangerous pharmaceuticals, but you may have an experience like mine - all the missing pieces in my mind, body and spirit now in place.

sugErspun

Bob,
I think a lot of good stuff has been shared here. What you describe, how you feel, view life...that's alcoholism. You might not be drinking but I think Restless, Irritable, Discontent fits the bill.

Working the steps again straight out of the book might be a really good idea. I mean, you are sober, sponsoring guys, going to meetings...but you haven't been released from the bondage of self.

There is a part in the book that says "Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well?". I find that kind of fitting after reading your post, and a few others as of late. Being away from alcohol (or drugs), doesn't make it better. At the third step we make a decision that God either is or he isn't. If you decided that God is ~ none of this cr@p matters, right? There was a point right around the 3rd step where I felt safer than I ever had in my life, and I was sober...I was moving into the unknown and letting go of my plans/designs (to losely qoute the book).

I don't know if you have a seratonin deficiency or not, or if meds will help. If you want my personal experience with these sorts of things ~ please PM me, my opinion of their use isn't important here.

Either God is, or he isn't. What is your choice? If he is..what in the world do you have to worry about?

Take care Bob, PM me, or whatever. You can be happy and free (and understand what that whole 4th dimension BS is all about)..the answer has been in your hands the whole time.

~a

(edit: I don't have any specific advice for you Bob..but if you feel hopeless, it may turn out to be the best thing for you. I don't think there is anything YOU can do, other than letting go)

Puddy

[QUOTE=sugErspun;2213752]
I don't know if you have a seratonin deficiency or not, or if meds will help. If you want my personal experience with these sorts of things ~ please PM me, my opinion of their use isn't important here.[QUOTE]

I like everything you said, also, this is not an AA meeting, talk of meds or anything else is fair game. My near-death experience with the introduction of pharmaceuticals into the sober life may save someone else's.

kwigers

Wow, there was another post similiar this morning, and oh how I can relate!
I was twelve years in the program and became suicidal, believe me I have love for this program, it got me sober and clean, and that is what it promised to do-to keep me clean for twenty four hours.
I finally sought out a life coach and my life has never been better! I don't think people are familiar with coaching as a tool for recovery. If you google addiction recovery coach, you will find approximately 35 life coaches certified in working exclusively with people in recovery! I still attend aa a few times a month, and reach out to others, and work the program in my life. But for me, and many folks I have been friends with, we needed something more to thrust us into JOY and experience the freedom of living life to the fullest! Coaching offers to challenge old thoughts and patterns that keep us from growing and expanding and experiencing the life we would love to live!
Much love and light!~Cheryl