Statistics AA 97% Failure Rate?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 471
I know that when I went to meetings and just came in at the last minute, left right away, didn't connect with anyone, didn't work the steps or have a sponsor, it made very little difference in my drinking. I would 'white knuckle' it for a few days, sometimes even a couple of weeks, but I was doomed to drink again because I was suffering from untreated alcoholism.
It started working when I started talking to people in the program about the program, got a sponsor, started going to lots of meetings, started working the steps and praying.
I think a lot of new people don't know that, and that AA's with some time could do a better job of helping them learn that. When I first came in, years ago in another town, they had greeters, phone number lists, strongly encouraged sponsorship,working the steps, big book study. And people interacted outside of the meetings, going out for coffee and having functions, calling one another. It wasn't left up to the new person to figure it out.
I'm lucky because I had a long stretch of sobriety in AA back when those things were going on, so when I cam back, deep down I knew I wasn't going to get sober just listening in on a couple of meetings. Most active alcoholics can't put together their own program without help, but they don't know how to ask for help, either.
I'd love to see AA in my area go back to offering real assistance to the new person.
It started working when I started talking to people in the program about the program, got a sponsor, started going to lots of meetings, started working the steps and praying.
I think a lot of new people don't know that, and that AA's with some time could do a better job of helping them learn that. When I first came in, years ago in another town, they had greeters, phone number lists, strongly encouraged sponsorship,working the steps, big book study. And people interacted outside of the meetings, going out for coffee and having functions, calling one another. It wasn't left up to the new person to figure it out.
I'm lucky because I had a long stretch of sobriety in AA back when those things were going on, so when I cam back, deep down I knew I wasn't going to get sober just listening in on a couple of meetings. Most active alcoholics can't put together their own program without help, but they don't know how to ask for help, either.
I'd love to see AA in my area go back to offering real assistance to the new person.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Huntington Woods, Michigan
Posts: 465
Originally Posted by KarenOskie 
I know that when I went to meetings and just came in at the last minute, left right away, didn't connect with anyone, didn't work the steps or have a sponsor, it made very little difference in my drinking. I would 'white knuckle' it for a few days, sometimes even a couple of weeks, but I was doomed to drink again because I was suffering from untreated alcoholism. It started working when I started talking to people in the program about the program, got a sponsor, started going to lots of meetings, started working the steps and praying. I think a lot of new people don't know that, and that AA's with some time could do a better job of helping them learn that. When I first came in, years ago in another town, they had greeters, phone number lists, strongly encouraged sponsorship,working the steps, big book study. And people interacted outside of the meetings, going out for coffee and having functions, calling one another. It wasn't left up to the new person to figure it out. I'm lucky because I had a long stretch of sobriety in AA back when those things were going on, so when I cam back, deep down I knew I wasn't going to get sober just listening in on a couple of meetings. Most active alcoholics can't put together their own program without help, but they don't know how to ask for help, either. I'd love to see AA in my area go back to offering real assistance to the new person.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Originally Posted by KarenOskie
I know that when I went to meetings and just came in at the last minute, left right away, didn't connect with anyone, didn't work the steps or have a sponsor, it made very little difference in my drinking. I would 'white knuckle' it for a few days, sometimes even a couple of weeks, but I was doomed to drink again because I was suffering from untreated alcoholism.
It started working when I started talking to people in the program about the program, got a sponsor, started going to lots of meetings, started working the steps and praying.
I think a lot of new people don't know that, and that AA's with some time could do a better job of helping them learn that. When I first came in, years ago in another town, they had greeters, phone number lists, strongly encouraged sponsorship,working the steps, big book study. And people interacted outside of the meetings, going out for coffee and having functions, calling one another. It wasn't left up to the new person to figure it out.
I'm lucky because I had a long stretch of sobriety in AA back when those things were going on, so when I cam back, deep down I knew I wasn't going to get sober just listening in on a couple of meetings. Most active alcoholics can't put together their own program without help, but they don't know how to ask for help, either.
I'd love to see AA in my area go back to offering real assistance to the new person.
It started working when I started talking to people in the program about the program, got a sponsor, started going to lots of meetings, started working the steps and praying.
I think a lot of new people don't know that, and that AA's with some time could do a better job of helping them learn that. When I first came in, years ago in another town, they had greeters, phone number lists, strongly encouraged sponsorship,working the steps, big book study. And people interacted outside of the meetings, going out for coffee and having functions, calling one another. It wasn't left up to the new person to figure it out.
I'm lucky because I had a long stretch of sobriety in AA back when those things were going on, so when I cam back, deep down I knew I wasn't going to get sober just listening in on a couple of meetings. Most active alcoholics can't put together their own program without help, but they don't know how to ask for help, either.
I'd love to see AA in my area go back to offering real assistance to the new person.
Sadly,
We don't have someone greet people at the door. There are people that will introduce themselves to a new face before the meeting starts.
Should it be someone new to the program or that meeting, someone needs to make them feel welcomed.
Our Saturday hospital group will go out for coffee etc. after a meeting. Having social get togethers with other members made me feel a part of AA and the people attending.
The most important thing for us to remember
When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of A.A. always to be there. And for that: I am responsible
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Hi there C Z , we have greeters at the door at the two meetings I am a member of , it is a position we change about at group meeting every month., and it has been said that an important fact of sobriety is carrying the message and getting involved in sponsorship that is where all the benefits are. It pisses me off when people who do not get involved in carrying the message offer opinions of what is missing or wrong with AA.
No disrespect to Redmayne but Joe and Charlie 's primary purpose was to ''make money '' out of AA they interpret the steps quite well , I do not see them as an ''in house ''sponsor you cannot sit down and have a chat with them for a start , same with any other motivational books or whatever, all they have is information. In Alcoholics Anonymous we need to ''experience'' personal growth not someone else's interpretations , its OK to have ''personal preferences'' in maintaining sobriety but as far as I am concerned the first 164 pages of the Big Book are the program along with the 12 Steps of recovery , problems start when some bring other outside preferences and try and put it over as part of the AA program . As has been said ''AA works if you work it '' simple as that , take care.
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
No disrespect to Redmayne but Joe and Charlie 's primary purpose was to ''make money '' out of AA they interpret the steps quite well , I do not see them as an ''in house ''sponsor you cannot sit down and have a chat with them for a start , same with any other motivational books or whatever, all they have is information. In Alcoholics Anonymous we need to ''experience'' personal growth not someone else's interpretations , its OK to have ''personal preferences'' in maintaining sobriety but as far as I am concerned the first 164 pages of the Big Book are the program along with the 12 Steps of recovery , problems start when some bring other outside preferences and try and put it over as part of the AA program . As has been said ''AA works if you work it '' simple as that , take care.
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Back home there is an amazing group. They do a lot of work carrying the message, they have sponsorship, they teach traditions, train people in service, and you cannot get into that meeting without someone greeting you and making you welcome. They also subtly qualify you as an alcoholic because they know who they are supposed to be carrying the message to.
The group is made up of fairly even numbers men and women, is a safe place for both, and th meetings they run, big book study and steps, stay on topic without drama. The people who go to that group get opportunities for service and they seem to stick around.. The drama queens stay away.
The greatest thing is their members seem to get quite a kick out of being a part of it all. Brotherly and harmonious is what it might be called.
My home group is following their lead but we have a little more to do yet. We still have a safe place for the women, and it really makes the group to have women a part of it.
The group is made up of fairly even numbers men and women, is a safe place for both, and th meetings they run, big book study and steps, stay on topic without drama. The people who go to that group get opportunities for service and they seem to stick around.. The drama queens stay away.
The greatest thing is their members seem to get quite a kick out of being a part of it all. Brotherly and harmonious is what it might be called.
My home group is following their lead but we have a little more to do yet. We still have a safe place for the women, and it really makes the group to have women a part of it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
i might have posted in here before. idk, the success/failure rate doesnt lie on the hands of the program.
why not blame the car rather than the drunk driver for killin someome?
why not blame the car rather than the drunk driver for killin someome?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,945
Yesterday I sat at a table with over 250 years sobriety out of eleven people. There's no such thing as 123 if ya did 3 you would launch out on a course of vigerous action. 4-9 then you get to ten were on 85 it talks about the Miracle the problem doesn't exist. So what is the success rate of people who made all there amends and freely forgive anyone or anything that ever happenend to them thoughs are the success rate numbers I want to see I'd say its 97% success.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
Gottalife, that's amazing!!!!! I've never been to a meeting like the one you described. Now that's the kind of meeting I'd look forward to going to. Nice to know they do exist. Gives me hope. John
The 4 groups hold a meeting for an hour each week, while the other "groups" exist only for an hour each week.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: northern california
Posts: 740
Bill W in 1965 said AA had failed over 60 percent of the people who entered the rooms of AA.
It is not AA that fails the alcoholic it is the power of addiction.
any recovery program works if someone wants to get sober whether it is Smart Recovery, LifeRing, Church or AA or even no program at all,it all works for the person who really wants sobriety.
One reason AA could have such a high failure rate is judges and rehabs centers force people into AA and maybe they do not want to be in recovery in the first place.
It is not AA that fails the alcoholic it is the power of addiction.
any recovery program works if someone wants to get sober whether it is Smart Recovery, LifeRing, Church or AA or even no program at all,it all works for the person who really wants sobriety.
One reason AA could have such a high failure rate is judges and rehabs centers force people into AA and maybe they do not want to be in recovery in the first place.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
I get your point Fred except that my experience is that there are many alcoholics who really want stop but have been unable. It is in the big book, something like unable to stop "no matter how great the wish". That was my experience.
What Bill suggested was that perhaps the people that AA "failed" did not get the kind of sponsorship they should have. Maybe we let them down.
How would that look? Well I guess each newcomer ought to receive the full facts on the AA program and then make his own mind up about what he wants to do. An informed decision.
Instead, he may turn up at a meeting under his own steam, could be any kind of meeting from AA oriented to drama oriented, it may or may not even have a big book, and it may be very difficult to find a recovered alcoholic to explain the deal, it may even be difficult to get any attention at all.
Never mind, he will be told to look for a sponsor, and when he finds one, he will likely be told to go away and write a fourth - if he is very lucky, or he may be told don't drink and go to meetings and don't worry about the steps etc.
There are an awful lot of groups/meetings/members that do not follow the suggestions on the book about working with newcomers. I think we would be pretty arrogant to say that the newcomer is at fault. There is so much suggested that we could be doing, but we don't. Perhaps Bill had a point, how does our side of the street look?
What Bill suggested was that perhaps the people that AA "failed" did not get the kind of sponsorship they should have. Maybe we let them down.
How would that look? Well I guess each newcomer ought to receive the full facts on the AA program and then make his own mind up about what he wants to do. An informed decision.
Instead, he may turn up at a meeting under his own steam, could be any kind of meeting from AA oriented to drama oriented, it may or may not even have a big book, and it may be very difficult to find a recovered alcoholic to explain the deal, it may even be difficult to get any attention at all.
Never mind, he will be told to look for a sponsor, and when he finds one, he will likely be told to go away and write a fourth - if he is very lucky, or he may be told don't drink and go to meetings and don't worry about the steps etc.
There are an awful lot of groups/meetings/members that do not follow the suggestions on the book about working with newcomers. I think we would be pretty arrogant to say that the newcomer is at fault. There is so much suggested that we could be doing, but we don't. Perhaps Bill had a point, how does our side of the street look?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
I believe the passage Gottalife is referring to is.......................:
"...There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish..." (Big Book of AA, page 34)
(o:
"...There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish..." (Big Book of AA, page 34)
(o:
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by fred59
It is not AA that fails the alcoholic it is the power of addiction.
any recovery program works if someone wants to get sober whether it is Smart Recovery, LifeRing, Church or AA or even no program at all,it all works for the person who really wants sobriety.
any recovery program works if someone wants to get sober whether it is Smart Recovery, LifeRing, Church or AA or even no program at all,it all works for the person who really wants sobriety.
Perhaps you're speaking from your experience and you don't know the dilemma the real alcoholic faces when they truly to their soul want to stop drinking but can't no matter what they do. Desire is of little to no avail to a real alcoholic. It helps.......sure........but it's not sufficient.
If I want to get smarter or learn a new trade or skill I would go to school right? What if I go to school, even sit down in the class, but don't take notes, don't study, don't do the homework and don't pass the tests. Will I have learned? Who failed......the school or me?
"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path." -- Rarely was the the only word in the BB Bill admitted he wanted to change. And change it to what? - to NEVER. So far, I've found the same thing to be true. I've yet to see anyone who is thoroughly following the spiritual path the 12 steps and their principles lay out who's failed.
97% failure rate......sounds about right. About 97% of the ppl I see at AA meetings are doing part of the program, their own program or no program at all.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: northern california
Posts: 740
DayTrader I do know the difference between a real alcoholic and a heavy drinker so do not be condescending I am 57 and I know what an alcoholic is, and most definitely one does not need God to get sober if that is what you mean by one who has all power
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,049
This thread is ASTOUNDING !
Full of love, knowledge, intelligence-lots, experience- thousands of yrs according to the sober time ( kudos to those ).
So what's the REAL truth???
I'm 45 yrs old, USMC vet 1991-95, job bouncing, father of 3 boys, two young still at home, uneducated, work 2 jobs ,(dump truck driver/EMT on weekends).
3 months ago( give/take a few days) , wife gone, house going, crazy, been trying to stop for 2yrs prior.
I'm reading all the comments on here still... Apologies.
3 months ago- walking around with a pistol in my mouth, because I can't live sober- it was bad.
"Rarely have we seen a person fail, who has thoroughly followed our path"
3 percent. Hell, I'll take it, people. I'm glad to be here!
So are my creditors, I'm SURE. Lol
3 months ago, My 59 yr old brother died moderately wealthy, totally alone , with me and my sister at his side, while he drowned in blood and fluids, morphine sedated , half gallon of vodka on the counter, 1/3 empty.
2 days later I got a 30 day chip.
Argue away folks, I love it.
No way in blazes I see it possible to improve on a higher power inspired book or program. Only my ego would suggest otherwise.
Just a newcomer sharing. I've burned up wejoy, and recoveryaudio, so I know what Clancy I thinks of a newcomers judgement, based upon his own experience ! Lol
Full of love, knowledge, intelligence-lots, experience- thousands of yrs according to the sober time ( kudos to those ).
So what's the REAL truth???
I'm 45 yrs old, USMC vet 1991-95, job bouncing, father of 3 boys, two young still at home, uneducated, work 2 jobs ,(dump truck driver/EMT on weekends).
3 months ago( give/take a few days) , wife gone, house going, crazy, been trying to stop for 2yrs prior.
I'm reading all the comments on here still... Apologies.
3 months ago- walking around with a pistol in my mouth, because I can't live sober- it was bad.
"Rarely have we seen a person fail, who has thoroughly followed our path"
3 percent. Hell, I'll take it, people. I'm glad to be here!
So are my creditors, I'm SURE. Lol
3 months ago, My 59 yr old brother died moderately wealthy, totally alone , with me and my sister at his side, while he drowned in blood and fluids, morphine sedated , half gallon of vodka on the counter, 1/3 empty.
2 days later I got a 30 day chip.
Argue away folks, I love it.
No way in blazes I see it possible to improve on a higher power inspired book or program. Only my ego would suggest otherwise.
Just a newcomer sharing. I've burned up wejoy, and recoveryaudio, so I know what Clancy I thinks of a newcomers judgement, based upon his own experience ! Lol
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by fred59
DayTrader I do know the difference between a real alcoholic and a heavy drinker so do not be condescending I am 57 and I know what an alcoholic is, and most definitely one does not need God to get sober if that is what you mean by one who has all power
Or is it possible you're here to not support 12 steps but something else?
And honestly, I'm not being condescending, several of the posts I've seen that you've written are exactly the opposite of what the 12-step program is all about. There's no sense of superiority here, I promise.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Welcome J L 2014.
Your attitude is absolutely in line with the introduction to the 5th Chapter , well done hope to hear more from you on your journey , take care.
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Your attitude is absolutely in line with the introduction to the 5th Chapter , well done hope to hear more from you on your journey , take care.
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
