NewBeginnings1598

Hi, I am new to this and hoping that I can get some help through this. I have been reading the forums and I am so happy to have finally found people to talk to that have been in my position. It's very hard to talk about certain emotions I have with my friends and husband because they have been fortunate to not have to deal with an A at all.

My problem right now is anger. My mother has been an A for at least 15 years now. She lost her FT job a little over a year ago due to drinking and just has progressively gotten worse. We have talked, begged, pleaded, left with contact for a couple of months, and just recently had her involunatilry commited. They kept her one day before they let her go home. We have tried everything for the past 15 years and nothing works. I have to say that (I think) she has been sober for a week and half now and while I am glad that she is doing good now I know that it will not last. She is still not admitting that she drinks more than one a day and that the problems we have are our own and of course, that me, my brother, and my father are her problems. I think she is sober now becuase her brothers and sisters have gotten involved and she is trying to "be good" until they move on. My immediate family has been trough this before and that is why we are not getting our hopes up.

My father was diagnosed with cancer 10 years ago for the first time and thankfully he had the surgery and went into remission. He was diagnosed again a couple of years ago and while he is doing very good now, we know that it can act up at any time. My father lives in the house with my AM and this has beaten him down. I want him to leave the very next time my AM messes up because I do not think that his last years should be spent in a house where my AM drinks and falls in the floor in front of him and constantly tries to control him and put him down. My father agrees and has wanted to leave for a long time now but there is a part of him that feels he should "take care of her". Whenever she sobers up for a few days, he starts to feel sorry for her once again. Thankfully, he does agree that this is it now and that he cannot change her. He gave her the final ultimatum when she got home from the rehab center.

I have talked with my husband and other friends about this move and our finally throwing our hands up and they seem to think that we would be horrible people to turn our backs on her when she "obviously needs help". We have done everything we know how to do and we are tired of being in this situation. My AM was very controlling before the drinking started and has just gotten worse over that last 15 years. Why are we the bad people when we are only trying to help ourselves? She is killing herself and was in very bad shape when we had her comitted. There is nothing we can do to make her stop. She has spent all the money they saved and has gotten them into financial trouble. I know that if (or when) she messes up, we will be deeply hurt because she will have no resort but to either get help or live on the streets. I hate to sound negative, but I know she would rather do the latter. I don't know how I will be able to deal with that, but I also don't know how to keep going through what we have been through for the past 15 years. My childhood sucked and I sill feel resentment everytime I see a mother and daugher shopping together or just getting along. I know I have to get over these emotions and I plan to start attending al anon meetings to help me.

My husband and friends will support me and my family no matter what, but why are we the bad people for wanting to leave and take care of ourselves when only she can help herself? I just dont' understand. I know that it is a desease that she cannot help, but at the same time, she is the only one who can help herself. I dont' want to think of my mother on the streets, but I can't stand to see her killing herself any more and I won't allow my dad's last years on this earth to be miserable. She has beaten him down so much that it's like I am the adult in this family now and I have to do everything to keep this family running. I am not that strong of a person and it tears me up inside everytime I have to step in. My dad, brother, and I are wanting to "leave her" when she messes up again and I know that I will be the one moving my dad's stuff and getting everything arranged. Not to mention, being the scapegoat once again!

Please help me understand why we are bad people for wanting this and trying to let her hit "rock bottom" so maybe she will finally get help. There are a lot of things that she has done to us mentally and emotionally that I do not even want to get into yet, but I am hoping that someone can help me see why we are wrong.

Sorry if I have jumped around but trying to keep this from being too long.

Prozac

Let me be the first to say that you are NOT a bad person. You do not make your mother drink. And just as you have no power over if your mother drinks, you have no power if she decides not to drink. It is her decision.

Well meaning friends, who have not been through this roller-coaster, do not know. Good deeds do not end addiction.

You are in the right place to learn tools to deal with guilt, I'm still learning them so will wait for the rest to take the stage, but stick with it, read the books, attend the meetings, and learn.

EDIT: Also, from a substance abuse/mental health provider side, let all be aware that in the US, at least you can not commit someone for being a drug addict. At times (as sounds like was the case of your mom) you can rationalize that they are an immediate danger to self/others, but this does not hold over long as they sober up quickly and are discharged. Commitment orders clearly ask "because of thier mental illness they are likely to..." not because of their substance abuse disorders. It's heart breaking, but true.

suki44883

There is nothing we can do to make her stop.

It's good that you realize this. Until she decides to get help, there is nothing you or anyone else can do. At the same time, there is nothing you can do for your father if he refuses to leave her. That doesn't make you a bad person, regardless of what anyone says.

Don't listen to people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. If they're so concerned, let them take care of it. It won't be long before they realize that no matter what you want, or hope, or pray for, nothing will change until that person wants help more than anything. Don't let ignorant people make you feel bad.

All we can control in this world is ourselves. We cannot save another person who does not want to be saved. Take care of you, let your father take care of himself and let your mother be responsible for herself.

coffeedrinker

I think when you ask "am I wrong" you already know that you are not, but seeking validation. You'll get it here, honey.

Some people feel that the best thing we can do - for the alcoholic - is to "leave" them

barb dwyer

Welcome to SR!

There is a difference between
loving someone

and letting them destroy you.

You have a right to protect your own well being.

Children of alcoholics (and abusers, it turns out)
are raised
to give and give and give
to bleed and bleed and bleed
until there's nothing left.

And when there's nothing left -
it's still our fault.
We're selfish.
We're weak.

Trouble is -
all of it is a lie.

You don't require anyone's permission
no one's acceptance,
there is no Authority allowed to grant its approval
to save yourself.

You are alive -
therefore it is your birthright.

It is not a privilidge... it is your RIGHT.

NewBeginnings1598

Thanks everyone. I don't know that leaving and turning our backs on her will be the "right" thing for her, but I don't know what is. Nothing else has worked and this is my last resort. I am glad that my dad has finally seen that he needs to take care of himself and leave, but I know it will be harder for him than me. I don't know why I seem to need validation for this, but it does help me that not everyone thinks it wrong.

suki44883

You are not turning your back on her; you are allowing her to live her life the way she wants while taking steps to protect yourself. That is all you can do, unless you want to spend however many more years dealing with it. If nothing changes, nothing changes. My hope is that you will make the changes that will save yourself.

NewBeginnings1598

Last night I posted that I "thought" my mom had been sober for a week and a half. Well I just went to my parents and searched her old hiding places while she was gone and found a trash can full of empty cans that were not there last week. I also found new beer that was not there last week. I know that this was not there before because I personally took everything out of the room when we sent her to rehab. I am so mad and hurt right now, that I am shaking. I knew in the back of my mind that she could not quit that way and be fine and still say there was not a problem. I am so confused right now becuase everytime we have checked on her she has been fine so I don't know when she was able to drink without anyone knowing.

I know that I have to take myself out of this situation now because I can't keep going into mini panic attacks everytime this happens. I have already called my dad and told him that I needed to speak to him when he got off work to tell him what I found. I hope that he leaves, but I do know that is his call to make, but at least I now know that I am 100% done. I know this will be hard because my sober mom is really a great person and I love her with all my heart, but I absolutely hate my AM. I don't want to think of a life without my mom, but I don't want to continue with what I have. So hard.

coffeedrinker

You are absolutely right. No way she has it as bad as she does, and can just put down the beer can, go through life like everything's okie-dokie.

I would like to point out the flaw in the statement that when you've checked on her she's been "fine". I know what you mean by "fine" but really, of course she is not. She's just drinking to maintain at those times.

Please don't burden yourself with guilt over "leaving" her. You tell her what you are doing (leaving) and why and then you let the chips fall where they may. It's part of the process of her either getting better, and believing that she cannot.

Also, IMO, any possible mental illness takes a back seat to alcoholism. It cannot be properly treated while she is drinking.

tromboneliness

They'll hide it anywhere they can. A garden hose, shampoo bottles hidden in the toilet tank, etc. W.C. Fields used to hide booze in a hollow cane that he walked around with. If they want to hide it, there is no way you can stop them. And it's very common for an alkie to say, "OK, OK, I know I drink too much -- I'll stop; I won't drink anymore; that's it, no more." They're just saying that to get you off their back -- it usually doesn't last long. Unless (and this is a big "unless") they want to get better.

Before my first Al-Anon meeting, I looked through a couple of pamphlets they had set out on the table. One of them was called, "So You Love An Alcoholic." Among other things, it had a list of "Some Important Don'ts." Don't pour out the bottles, don't argue with them when they're drunk, don't try to keep track of how much they drink, don't treat them like a child, etc. Basically, the pamphlet was telling me "don't" do everything I was doing! Well, I had to admit, none of the stuff I was doing was working -- the alcoholic was still pounding down booze like there was no tomorrow. It wasn't until some months later that things changed.

Unless the A wants to get better, we can't do anything about it. Sometimes, we have to make a choice -- live without the A, or put up with the way things are.

T

NewBeginnings1598

Thanks. I am still waiting for my dad to meet with me to talk about this. I called my AM's sister who helped us get her commited the other week and am waiting for her to call me back. I am hoping that she does not tell my AM what I found because I want it to be there when I tell her I am done. I don't want her to lie again because I saw the truth. (and saw it all along). I just hope that I keep the courage I have at this moment to go through with this tonight. She has destroyed most of my childhood and I do not want my adulthood to be the same.

I have no problem taking care of my parents for sickness and know that is a way of life. I take care of my father for the most part and don't mind doing it. What I can't do is take care of my AM when she is doing it to herself. I don't have her mind so I have no clue as to why she fights so hard against help. It's like beating my head into a wall to keep telling her she has a problem and she saying no I don't, my problem is you not listening to me. I am so sick of that excuse and yes I know that is an excuse. My whole family knows it is an excuse. How a person could put alcohol before their family is beyond me and I guess it is a good thing that I don't understand it since you have to have the problem to know how it affects you. I have made a vow that when I have kids they will never go through a minute of what I have gone through growing up.

Still hurt, angry, and confused, but I know that I will at least remove myself from the situation today. I will start getting help for myself this week at Al anon and by talking to you guys. You are all wonderful and I really appreciate all the advice and support.

Shelbjo

i am very intrested in reading this blogg im in the same situation kinda i kno what u feel like n its nott ur fault ur not wrong my gma pays my alcholic moms bills n i tell her all the time let the light get shut off just once let the electricty go out let her realize. i really thought there was no one out there with the same problems as me could u give me advice i feel like im lifelesss dont care about anything cry all the time if anyone has any answers foer me plz lett me kno im dying inside n no one will listen!

NewBeginnings1598

Shelbjo,

I truly feel for you. This is so hard and it feels like there is no way out. I urge you to talk to someone and attend al anon meetings. I am attending my first one this week. The decision to leave my AM has not come easy. It has been years in the making and I finally just asked myself why I was putting up with everything a couple of weeks ago. Your gma sounds like my F, and I am telling him tonight that he can stay and help her if he wants, but I will not be there to carry the burden on my shoulders anymore. I can't make my father stop trying to help her no matter how bad I want to. At some point, I have come to realize that we can only do so much and when the problem is bigger than we are, you have to find another way around it. My way of leaving may not be the "best" way for everyone involved, but it is the only way I know to make things easier for me personally. I think one of the traits of an ACOA is trying to solve everyone else's problems and not taking care of yourself. I have finally just gotten "selfish" and said that's it, I have to look after me because nobody else is going to take care of me the way I can.

Please seek help to get through this and if your gma keeps bailing her out, then you have to let that become her problem and take yourself out of the equation. I know it is sad to see the A take advantage of people, but we are powerless to stop it until the A or the individual (my F, or your gma) gets fed up.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

NewBeginnings1598

Ok, so we are making the move today or tomorrow to cut off contact with my AM. My F is finding a place to stay today. Any ideas on how we tell her that we are done? It's hard to talk to her to tell her that we are not happy anymore. She always cuts us off and says there is no problem or she gets mad and won't talk. I am thinking of writing a letter and giving that to her. Is this ok or do I owe her an actual spoken explanation? I know I want out but I don't know how to tell her. I do need to talk to her some to get my dad's doctor and hospital bills from her, but I know I should probably make my dad take care of that. Please help and give me advice. This is going to be so hard to actually leave her with nothing. She will lose the house and everything my parents have worked for.

GingerM

I would start by finding a reason to get the bills and any other items you need from the house before you tell her you're leaving.

Then, and only then, I would explain that it is hurting you too much to watch her hurt herself like this. To protect yourself, you feel you must detach from the situation. You love her, but you need to take care of yourself.

I would then list the things that you will be doing/not doing: I won't be stopping by anymore, I won't be calling, I won't pay your bills... whatever it is that you're changing in your behavior.

I would NOT tell her "if you get clean, I'll come back" (that will keep you engaged in the dance, and you'll find yourself right back where you are now). I would not tell her that it's all her fault. Keep the focus on you - you hurt, you need to take care of yourself, this is how you plan to do so. If you give the focus to her, she will use it to manipulate.

Don't fall for the "poor pitiful me, no one loves/understands me" thing either, nor for the "you're a horrible child to leave your mother like this". Remember that any statement she makes about either how badly off she is or how horrible you are is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate the situation so that nothing changes and she can just go on in the same manner.

Try your best to not argue - she will want to suck you into an argument. This is very difficult to do when you've been actively engaged for so long.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I wish you much strength and self-possession. It's not at all an easy thing to do.

NewBeginnings1598

Thanks Ginger M. I will try to get the bills out of the house today while she is gone. My heart is truly breaking along with my father's and brother. I thought that it would be somewhat easy to tell her we were leaving but it is tearing me apart. I am just so upset right now that I can't do anything but focus on not crying. This changes every hour it seems. I am mad, then sad, and back and forth. I know this will be hard but I also know that I HAVE to be strong enough to follow through.

dothi

GingerM has really covered it. Just wanted to reiterate: avoid getting into the "why" of why you're doing this. It is just too easy to start trying to convince your AM of "why" like she is a rational person, when the fact is that as long as she's in addiction she is not a rational person.

Your emotions are all over the board because this is incredibly tough. I can only imagine all the fears and grief you may be experiencing in finally taking action. Your actions are finally saying, "the alcoholism is beyond my control." You have been forced into taking a stand that no child should have to take "against" their parent.

As far as other people go... Unless you've lived with an alcoholic, there's no explaining the craziness that the lifestyle entails. Other people are assuming your AM is a rational person who "just needs some help." They don't understand, so don't let their judgements sit too long with you. I moved across the country to get away from my AF - literally had the shakes and dry heaves when I felt "trapped" by the dysfunctional dynamics. Only my closest friends understood that I had to leave because of what the relationship with my dad was doing to me. Other people accused me of abandoning him and the rest of my family (the last thing I wanted to do). Unless people have walked in your shoes, they are not going to understand what it means to distance yourself from someone you love so that you don't go crazy too.

Hang in there, amiwrong

reverse

Hi,
I hope you have some friends and people you can turn to during this difficult time.
In regards to how to break it to her......I wrote my mom a letter and basically said that I have been thinking about the direction our relationship is going... (b/c all relationships need an inventory from time to time) and I said that I was not happy with the direction it was going. Then I briefly mentioned some of the behaviors that bother me...and various things through the years and said that I can't give anymore to the relationship than I already have. I've reached my maximum--that's pretty much how I put it.
She did write me back several times acting like nothing happened....and then even wrote beligerent things---so i blocked her from my email. It's been a few months now and has been very hard for me...but I think in the end...its harder to stay in a sick relationship like that...and I'm tired of preventing the consequences from falling in her lap where they belong.
So yea...I wrote her a letter vs. talking to her b/c there is no talking to her. If I would be able to talk to her to begin w/...if she was any bit receptive to anything I had to say...I would not be in the current standing w/ her that I am today. So I opted for a letter. Not sure what anyone else has done. And of course she tried to manipulate it and twist it and put it on me...but I did not let her. I kept to the facts--her various behaviors that will not be tolerated...end of story. And if she wants to continue carrying on with those behaviors with no regard and concern of how it affects others..then I just won't be around someone so destructive. If I chose to remain in a relationship like that...I'd have to pretend that it's something its not.

Best wishes and good luck to you.

NewBeginnings1598

Thanks reverse and dothi. The support and advice is greatly appreciated. I have been on the phone with my mom's sisters all day because they want to do one final intervention. I am all for it and told them that as long as they understand that either she leaves or we leave that night then we will do the intervention. It has to come to an end! Our nerves are shot and this is not easy. It would be easy to just say whatever and be quiet while my AM kills herself but what would we be accomplishing? We would not be doing what is best for her or us.

I need to talk to my dad becuase he has to be the one who stands up to her Thursday night. She has beaten him down so bad that he has just let her control him for years. Me, my brother, and my mom's family have to be there as his support only. I know that he has to do this himself, but I know that if he doesn't then I will again take control of the situation becuase I can't stand to sit back and watch our family be destroyed. Someone has to take control of the situation.

I am telling my dad tongiht that he needs to tell me what HE wants. Stop telling me what I want to hear and do what he thinks is right for him. If he decides that it is too hard to leave and face what will happen to her, then I feel like he is abandoing me too by allowing this to happen. I will not tell him that because God knows he can't take much more, but I need him to understand that if he is not willing to finally "put his foot down" then there is no point to the intervention.

Either way, I am done with this and moving on with MY life Thursday night.

GiveLove

No, I wouldn't tell him that either.

Your father is in pain too. He doesn't know the right thing to do, or he does know and doesn't have the strength to do it. He needs support and knowledge, not threats.

Consider - just consider - taking a day away from this situation and clearing your head. It will help you all to plan this last-ditch intervention, should you decide to do it. She won't get any more or less sober, and the world will not end. But you may avoid making some decisions, in your rage, that will alienate your father from you forever, and cut him off from the support that may eventually give him the courage to change.

Speaking from personal experience, unfortunately.

You can move on with your life any time. It is your life - the only one you CAN control.