Relationship voids
DOS: 08-16-2012
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth 
See, I got to a really good place with lots of clarity around 3 months, and since Thanksgiving I have been in withdrawal from the man who was a stand-in for my father.. I have been sober in that I have abstained from alcohol, but a lot of addictive behaviors are still wreaking havoc.
I wanted to go back to school with a few months of sobriety under my belt, and last week I did go back, at 140 days sober. And I don't feel the calmness or the clarity that I expected would be even more solidified in me than it was back in November. I feel like the rug was pulled out from under me and I haven't been able to get back on my feet.
I guess I thought that sobriety was the end to suffering somehow. That when I got alcohol out of the way, there'd be nothing left in my way.
I wanted to go back to school with a few months of sobriety under my belt, and last week I did go back, at 140 days sober. And I don't feel the calmness or the clarity that I expected would be even more solidified in me than it was back in November. I feel like the rug was pulled out from under me and I haven't been able to get back on my feet.
I guess I thought that sobriety was the end to suffering somehow. That when I got alcohol out of the way, there'd be nothing left in my way.
Did you ever discuss this with a sponsor while you were in AA? If not I highly suggest you take all of your pent up energy and get invested in AA and find the solution that will save your life and your sanity.
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ive come to appreciate what some refer toas the difference between abstinence and sobriety. my suffering , the real pain, didn't come clear to me until after i hadn't had a drink in a long time. coming to awareness was a very gradula process.
so, my suffering didn't end until i engaged in a process designed to end it, which in my case was the twelve step route. but of course there are other ways.
so, my suffering didn't end until i engaged in a process designed to end it, which in my case was the twelve step route. but of course there are other ways.
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
See, I got to a really good place with lots of clarity around 3 months, and since Thanksgiving I have been in withdrawal from the man who was a stand-in for my father.. I have been sober in that I have abstained from alcohol, but a lot of addictive behaviors are still wreaking havoc.
I wanted to go back to school with a few months of sobriety under my belt, and last week I did go back, at 140 days sober. And I don't feel the calmness or the clarity that I expected would be even more solidified in me than it was back in November. I feel like the rug was pulled out from under me and I haven't been able to get back on my feet.
I guess I thought that sobriety was the end to suffering somehow. That when I got alcohol out of the way, there'd be nothing left in my way.
I wanted to go back to school with a few months of sobriety under my belt, and last week I did go back, at 140 days sober. And I don't feel the calmness or the clarity that I expected would be even more solidified in me than it was back in November. I feel like the rug was pulled out from under me and I haven't been able to get back on my feet.
I guess I thought that sobriety was the end to suffering somehow. That when I got alcohol out of the way, there'd be nothing left in my way.
I also remember feeling much more together at 3 months than I did slightly later. I think I spent a while listening and learning at AA, but that was the extent of my willingness, and it didn't take long for me to think I knew everything about everything. Of course, that is not working a program of recovery! Things went steadily downhill for me mentally and emotionally, and it was around that time or shortly after that my boss send me for counselling because I was a hot mess. As I've probably mentioned, I wasn't ready to get honest with a counsellor and so there was little she could do to help me. Then I read the PAWs article and something clicked, that it was recommending a 12-step program and there was I, sitting in 12 -step meetings every week, but refusing to get a sponsor or do the work. My pride (ego) and fear were still calling the shots, sober or not. So I got a sponsor immediately. And started the step work - and that was when my recovery really kicked off. The first six months were just like standing at the edge of the diving board trying to gather up the courage to take that leap into recovery really .
This is the PAWs article that I refer to.... https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/
Hope you feel better soon. BB
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Originally Posted by Berrybean
Well going back to school in itself is a big move and may well rattle you more than you realise. Fear comes in a lot of guises, and Expectation can be a big fat creep of a thing as well. Both in regard to our expectation of other people, places and things, and the fear around not meeting others (or our own ) expectations of ourselves.
I also remember feeling much more together at 3 months than I did slightly later. I think I spent a while listening and learning at AA, but that was the extent of my willingness, and it didn't take long for me to think I knew everything about everything. Of course, that is not working a program of recovery! Things went steadily downhill for me mentally and emotionally, and it was around that time or shortly after that my boss send me for counselling because I was a hot mess. As I've probably mentioned, I wasn't ready to get honest with a counsellor and so there was little she could do to help me. Then I read the PAWs article and something clicked, that it was recommending a 12-step program and there was I, sitting in 12 -step meetings every week, but refusing to get a sponsor or do the work. My pride (ego) and fear were still calling the shots, sober or not. So I got a sponsor immediately. And started the step work - and that was when my recovery really kicked off. The first six months were just like standing at the edge of the diving board trying to gather up the courage to take that leap into recovery really .
This is the PAWs article that I refer to.... https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/
Hope you feel better soon. BB
I also remember feeling much more together at 3 months than I did slightly later. I think I spent a while listening and learning at AA, but that was the extent of my willingness, and it didn't take long for me to think I knew everything about everything. Of course, that is not working a program of recovery! Things went steadily downhill for me mentally and emotionally, and it was around that time or shortly after that my boss send me for counselling because I was a hot mess. As I've probably mentioned, I wasn't ready to get honest with a counsellor and so there was little she could do to help me. Then I read the PAWs article and something clicked, that it was recommending a 12-step program and there was I, sitting in 12 -step meetings every week, but refusing to get a sponsor or do the work. My pride (ego) and fear were still calling the shots, sober or not. So I got a sponsor immediately. And started the step work - and that was when my recovery really kicked off. The first six months were just like standing at the edge of the diving board trying to gather up the courage to take that leap into recovery really .
This is the PAWs article that I refer to.... https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/
Hope you feel better soon. BB
I have been neglecting self-care and not being very judicial in how I spend my time or what I allow my mind to linger on.. I was surprised because I was excited to go back to school, and had assumed it would an extremely positive transition because I had twenty weeks of sobriety under my belt.. But I have found myself apathetic to the point of withdrawing behaviors.. not wanting to be at school, not wanting to interact with people, especially faculty, having shame over past mistakes and failures, rather than the excitement and hope I expected I would be going in to this with..
I am seeing it's time to start going to AA and working the steps.. because while I have no issue resisting the temptation to drink, I can't keep living this way.. I would say it almost wasn't worth getting sober, except that I have money now and none of the physical symptoms which were getting unbearable.. but if I continue to have the emotional-psychological symptoms, then I have stopped progressing in my recovery, I have actually regressed a lot in emotional maturity..
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Hugs BC. Just remember, you haven't lost what you already worked for. It's just easy to get stuck in the odd vortex or two. One of the things I love about AA and my sponsor / AA friends is that when I'm stuck in a funk, even if I can't figure out what my missing piece is on my own, the people there can help me to figure it out, or sometimes even spot what's changed straight off (my sponsor is scarily astute at times! She says it's because she had the same experiences. I'm often convinced she must have me under surveillance lol ).
Be gentle on yourself. You deserve recovery. You deserve support. Why? Because everyone deserves it, and we are no different. It's hard to figure out at times, and often it all seems a little counterintuitive. But it's def the most valuable learning I've ever done, and it's worth it no matter how tough it seems at times. If i can do it, anyone can.
Praying for you (again) tonight. You've been in my prayers a lot this week - I was worried for you x
Be gentle on yourself. You deserve recovery. You deserve support. Why? Because everyone deserves it, and we are no different. It's hard to figure out at times, and often it all seems a little counterintuitive. But it's def the most valuable learning I've ever done, and it's worth it no matter how tough it seems at times. If i can do it, anyone can.
Praying for you (again) tonight. You've been in my prayers a lot this week - I was worried for you x
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Thank you.
I am starting to see that this feeling of having a void of intimacy to fill, was just me reaching for a person to replace the person who replaced alcohol as my drug of choice. I need to learn how to be fulfilled without chasing after something that is bad for me.
I am starting to see that this feeling of having a void of intimacy to fill, was just me reaching for a person to replace the person who replaced alcohol as my drug of choice. I need to learn how to be fulfilled without chasing after something that is bad for me.
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As has been said learn to be happy in your own skin, some people are addicted to relationships moving from disaster to another you could say like an alcoholic.
I know one person married 6 times by 53 years old with 5 children , a total disaster.
Western society tells you from a young age you must have someone, as many have said I value friends as much , you can have friends forever but husbands and wives come and go.
I know one person married 6 times by 53 years old with 5 children , a total disaster.
Western society tells you from a young age you must have someone, as many have said I value friends as much , you can have friends forever but husbands and wives come and go.
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
Thank you.
I am starting to see that this feeling of having a void of intimacy to fill, was just me reaching for a person to replace the person who replaced alcohol as my drug of choice. I need to learn how to be fulfilled without chasing after something that is bad for me.
I am starting to see that this feeling of having a void of intimacy to fill, was just me reaching for a person to replace the person who replaced alcohol as my drug of choice. I need to learn how to be fulfilled without chasing after something that is bad for me.
There is a big upside and downside to being alone, one persons alone is freedom another's loneliness, on persons relationship is trapped another compromise ... a few a content all the time.
Good luck with it , you seem to have a grasp of it ..
Apologies if the above sounds crass or condescending it's not meant to, I guess I could not word it great.
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Hi Brenda;
From your postings, you truly seem to be looking outside of yourself for fufilment, and I know from personal experience that didn't work for me.
Everyone is different, but it doesn't seem to be working for you either at this point.
Religion, school, relationships don't "work" until we do the (sometimes very difficult) internal work to heal our guilt,
self-loathing, and low self-esteem which we have numbed with booze or ignored through external distractions like romantic attraction and so on.
You said in your other thread that you have relapsed, and I did too, several times--
the first time after more than 13 months sober--because I hadn't been
ready or willing to really get "at" the roots of my unhappiness and pain.
For me, it took a short course of intensive therapy, journaling, and really getting honest with me.
I also had to cultivate kindness and systematically treat myself to loving words, thoughts, and deeds.
Until I did that, I had a big aching empty hole inside myself that nothing could even begin to fill,
much as I tried to distract myself and "get on with life".
From what you posted, beginning a romantic relationship would not be good for you or another person.
You seem well aware of this, and I think you are right.
You need to learn to really love you before you can be the loving partner and self-sustaining support that happy marriages require.
You are fully capable of this, and I see you as a seeker and one who can do the work.
What about using your relapse as catalyst to drop all the facades and really
dig into recovery harder than you ever have before?
You mentioned the AA 12 step program--that works for many many people.
But whatever you choose, don't hold yourself back intellectually
and try to parse it out. Just plunge yourself into the process.
Wishing you every success
From your postings, you truly seem to be looking outside of yourself for fufilment, and I know from personal experience that didn't work for me.
Everyone is different, but it doesn't seem to be working for you either at this point.
Religion, school, relationships don't "work" until we do the (sometimes very difficult) internal work to heal our guilt,
self-loathing, and low self-esteem which we have numbed with booze or ignored through external distractions like romantic attraction and so on.
You said in your other thread that you have relapsed, and I did too, several times--
the first time after more than 13 months sober--because I hadn't been
ready or willing to really get "at" the roots of my unhappiness and pain.
For me, it took a short course of intensive therapy, journaling, and really getting honest with me.
I also had to cultivate kindness and systematically treat myself to loving words, thoughts, and deeds.
Until I did that, I had a big aching empty hole inside myself that nothing could even begin to fill,
much as I tried to distract myself and "get on with life".
From what you posted, beginning a romantic relationship would not be good for you or another person.
You seem well aware of this, and I think you are right.
You need to learn to really love you before you can be the loving partner and self-sustaining support that happy marriages require.
You are fully capable of this, and I see you as a seeker and one who can do the work.
What about using your relapse as catalyst to drop all the facades and really
dig into recovery harder than you ever have before?
You mentioned the AA 12 step program--that works for many many people.
But whatever you choose, don't hold yourself back intellectually
and try to parse it out. Just plunge yourself into the process.
Wishing you every success
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
I was posing a hypothetical question in that other thread, if you are referring to the one I think you are.. I was also being a bit of a s*** and acting like I didn't understand the misunderstanding.
I didn't relapse, I've still been sober since August 21. But if you check out my avatar, that's pretty much how I feel now. Eeyore's pink balloon popped, he is very sad. It's a reference to having had the "pink bubble" of early sobriety burst on me.. now going through that whole PAWS thing people talk about, which I was so sure I was going to skip over..
May go to a 12 step meeting tonight. It's not like I think I'm gonna drink if I don't go, I'm just really tired, and as such might not even be able to focus if I did go. I'm gonna clean, paint and journal tonight probably.
I didn't relapse, I've still been sober since August 21. But if you check out my avatar, that's pretty much how I feel now. Eeyore's pink balloon popped, he is very sad. It's a reference to having had the "pink bubble" of early sobriety burst on me.. now going through that whole PAWS thing people talk about, which I was so sure I was going to skip over..
May go to a 12 step meeting tonight. It's not like I think I'm gonna drink if I don't go, I'm just really tired, and as such might not even be able to focus if I did go. I'm gonna clean, paint and journal tonight probably.
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
I guess I thought that sobriety was the end to suffering somehow. That when I got alcohol out of the way, there'd be nothing left in my way.
I'm also one who thought that sober = happy, healthy, safe. [and I think it's pretty common to feel that way.] I'll admit, it's still a bit of a shock every time something I see as negative happens in my life - or - in a friend's life. It's one of those dreaded "Life isn't fair" things. 
What's been helping me alot is that I've been trying really, really hard to stop labeling things as good or bad and instead look at them as they just are. IDK if that makes sense? But it helps me to not fight so hard against the things that I wish weren't happening.
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Brenda - First, thank you for this thread! I'm kinda going thru the same thing - I'm married but we've been separated for a long time 
I've started realizing that what I thought was just a desire for sex, is actually alot of me missing the physical closeness of another person. I miss snuggling and watching a movie!
I don't work or go to school [or drive!] so my contact with the world is thru AA meetings and friendships I've made there. I have a couple of male friends that I can just hug - [for more than just a split second.]
I have a friend [also male] that I can text in the middle of the night [We're both night-owls] and sometimes we text for hours. [heaven forbid that we ever actually talk on the phone! LOL] We have silly "inside jokes" that no one else would find funny in the least. I've missed THAT connection with someone as well! But I didn't realize that until I found it somewhere else.
I do have to make clear that the couple of very close male friends I have will never be more than that. We have enough in common to be good friends and enough major differences that any other kind of relationship just isn't possible. [Example: one is a hard-core biker. I once walked away from a bike accident that should have killed me. I hate motorcycles!]
All of that said, developing same-sex friendships has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself. Let's face it, another woman will just "get things" that a man never can. Women's meetings rock!
But from the beginning until now, I've surrounded myself with like-minded people. It's like kinda having an inside joke that "normies" will never understand.
No, none of that replaces the skin-to-skin closeness of sex.
Yes, I some times miss that horribly.
If someone had told me 2 years ago that I'd be talking about how satisfying platonic hugs and late-nite texts can be, I'd have told them to ef off.
But it really does help me get thru my weird situation right now and I just wanted to share my 2 cents.
The one suggestion I have is to listen for similarities. One friendship I have is the woman who shared about the same difficulties with organized religion that I have. Another is because a biker shared that he was bipolar. So am I. It's rare that someone shares that - around here any way. Both have become my bestest friends.
darkling
ps. 12-step programs are not just about stopping!
They're about starting to learn how to live a better life than what we have now.
I've started realizing that what I thought was just a desire for sex, is actually alot of me missing the physical closeness of another person. I miss snuggling and watching a movie!
I don't work or go to school [or drive!] so my contact with the world is thru AA meetings and friendships I've made there. I have a couple of male friends that I can just hug - [for more than just a split second.]
I have a friend [also male] that I can text in the middle of the night [We're both night-owls] and sometimes we text for hours. [heaven forbid that we ever actually talk on the phone! LOL] We have silly "inside jokes" that no one else would find funny in the least. I've missed THAT connection with someone as well! But I didn't realize that until I found it somewhere else.
I do have to make clear that the couple of very close male friends I have will never be more than that. We have enough in common to be good friends and enough major differences that any other kind of relationship just isn't possible. [Example: one is a hard-core biker. I once walked away from a bike accident that should have killed me. I hate motorcycles!]
All of that said, developing same-sex friendships has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself. Let's face it, another woman will just "get things" that a man never can. Women's meetings rock!
But from the beginning until now, I've surrounded myself with like-minded people. It's like kinda having an inside joke that "normies" will never understand.
No, none of that replaces the skin-to-skin closeness of sex.
Yes, I some times miss that horribly.
If someone had told me 2 years ago that I'd be talking about how satisfying platonic hugs and late-nite texts can be, I'd have told them to ef off.
But it really does help me get thru my weird situation right now and I just wanted to share my 2 cents.
The one suggestion I have is to listen for similarities. One friendship I have is the woman who shared about the same difficulties with organized religion that I have. Another is because a biker shared that he was bipolar. So am I. It's rare that someone shares that - around here any way. Both have become my bestest friends.
darkling
ps. 12-step programs are not just about stopping!
They're about starting to learn how to live a better life than what we have now.
Last edited by darkling; 01-21-2017 at 02:46 PM. Reason: ps
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Nice post Darkling. I have a very good female friend (from work) that I talk to regularly. We hug often. We've known each other for 5 years bit have probably been closer recently. Like you say...will never be more than that, and that is perfect. I have other close platonic female friendships also. The ones where there is an unambiguous barrier to romantic involvement are the best.
I have also developed male friendships that are very close, people I can talk to whenever, about whatever.
IMO this is incredibly healthy. If I'm ever with someone again, I will continue to nurture and maintain these other friendships. We crave closeness as human beings. One of my issues over the years is looking for that exclusively with one person . Not healthy for my life in general, and not healthy for that one relationship...IMO.
Of course I crave one relationship where I can express myself fully, including sexuality, friendship, trust...
But I better not go looking for everything, all in one person, and only with that person. That right there is dependence and lots of bad things happen before, during and after
P
I have also developed male friendships that are very close, people I can talk to whenever, about whatever.
IMO this is incredibly healthy. If I'm ever with someone again, I will continue to nurture and maintain these other friendships. We crave closeness as human beings. One of my issues over the years is looking for that exclusively with one person . Not healthy for my life in general, and not healthy for that one relationship...IMO.
Of course I crave one relationship where I can express myself fully, including sexuality, friendship, trust...
But I better not go looking for everything, all in one person, and only with that person. That right there is dependence and lots of bad things happen before, during and after
P
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I think a lot of women believe they are incomplete without a man.. and many think a relationship is incomplete without "amazing" sex, whatever that means.
I was raised with those beliefs though, a lot of us are.. I went camping with a male friend two summers ago and my mother asked if he'd brought condoms. I said how would I know.. *chuckle* We hiked, read books and drank beer, ma!
I was raised with those beliefs though, a lot of us are.. I went camping with a male friend two summers ago and my mother asked if he'd brought condoms. I said how would I know.. *chuckle* We hiked, read books and drank beer, ma!
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Originally Posted by Willdoit
I know one person married 6 times by 53 years old with 5 children , a total disaster.
Since he got sober [20 years ago] he got back with his 3x ex-wife for a while, but they were smart enough not to get married again - and is now on his 6th marriage.
smfh
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Originally Posted by Berrybean
It sounds like you may be trying to fix a spiritual hole with another person. That doesn't really work. What we need to do is give ourselves time to grow on the inside. Give yourself a chance BC... this is still early days for your recovery.
I'm still married (somehow...thankfully), so my situation is different, but as my addiction progressed, I not only thought I needed alcohol to fix me, but intimacy as well. I constantly needed physical contact to be happy, and if I didn't get it...watch out. I think it was all wrapped up in my general addictive tendency, and that was one way it manifested itself.
Funny thing is, in the past three weeks of not drinking, I've hardly needed or thought about romantic satisfaction at all, even though I have someone in the same house who could help me out with it.
ABW1
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It's interesting how much changes over time. Up until recently, say within the last month, it has been very easy for me to occupy my time with recovery and self-care. I spent a lot of time writing and trying new things. I experienced huge leaps in emotional maturity and accomplished things I didn't think I could, including saving up a very decent amount of money. At a certain point, the magic of counting sober days wore off - I now knew for absolute certain I could stay sober if I wanted to, and 'just not drinking' was no longer the goal of my recovery. Now I wanted to see the fruits of that effort, actual manifestation of the life I had started to allow myself to envision once I got "out of the hole" of constantly fighting an addiction. I am now in a place where I have to WORK to continue seeing personal growth. When I quit, so much growth just happened to me. Now I have to make it happen. I guess a part of me wants to believe I'm done, I'm healed, I'm normal now, so now I get all the stuff I've been missing, a good job, money, things, friends, a husband, kids, spiritual fulfillment, being a part of my community. And it's just going to be super slow progress.. and it's all going to happen in it's time. I can't MAKE it happen.
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Can't really comment on the relationship void, I can be a love addict in that area and now gone completely the other way. Aside from toying with going back to my childs father a couple years ago, I've been celibate for a long azz time. I'm now an avoidant. I hope to work on this (and other issues) doing the steps (when I find a sponsor).
I am in your shoes regarding school though. I went back 4 months ago and I am finding it really tough. Infact, I kinda want to throw in the towel. Following your thread with interest.
I am in your shoes regarding school though. I went back 4 months ago and I am finding it really tough. Infact, I kinda want to throw in the towel. Following your thread with interest.
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
It's interesting how much changes over time. Up until recently, say within the last month, it has been very easy for me to occupy my time with recovery and self-care. I spent a lot of time writing and trying new things. I experienced huge leaps in emotional maturity and accomplished things I didn't think I could, including saving up a very decent amount of money. At a certain point, the magic of counting sober days wore off - I now knew for absolute certain I could stay sober if I wanted to, and 'just not drinking' was no longer the goal of my recovery. Now I wanted to see the fruits of that effort, actual manifestation of the life I had started to allow myself to envision once I got "out of the hole" of constantly fighting an addiction. I am now in a place where I have to WORK to continue seeing personal growth. When I quit, so much growth just happened to me. Now I have to make it happen. I guess a part of me wants to believe I'm done, I'm healed, I'm normal now, so now I get all the stuff I've been missing, a good job, money, things, friends, a husband, kids, spiritual fulfillment, being a part of my community. And it's just going to be super slow progress.. and it's all going to happen in it's time. I can't MAKE it happen.
Occasionally you do get stuck in a vortex. Your mind takes you into some crazy places. Just like all of us. But I really do admire your ability to listen to the suggestions people put to you, be reflective about it, and find the willingness to dig-in for the next phase of your journey.
You are pretty amazing BC. Keep at it.
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