awuh1

Centered I never had the impression that you were saying that there is only one way to get sober. Nothing in your posts implies that. I value the central theme of your OP. Drinking often has more to do with the way people think about things and react to them than it has to do with the physiology of addiction. If the problem were only biology, then a detox along with a resolution not to drink would always solve the problem. It clearly does not, at least for a whole lot of us, and that's a very important point.

advbike

The point of the original post was right on, in my case at least. When I stopped after drinking most of my adult life, my problems just got worse. Other addictions and compulsive behaviors rushed in to fill the void, lol. Clearly it's my thinking, distorted perceptions and active ego that are the problem for me. Inner Spiritual Malady indeed.

Centered3

Thanks everyone for your responses, they helped a lot. I was embarrassed that I couldn't delete my thread. It's helpful to hear that my raw honesty, despite my unintentional and unfortunate word mishap, did help others.

Centered3

I never said in any of my posts that I thought AA was the only way to recovery. I share my experience, and what I was taught. I have no experience about other recovery methods.

My entire intention has always been to share my experience to help others. I've been an untreated alcoholic, and I know what worked for me and what didn't work for me so I share my personal experience.

Centered3

Thanks Mike. But isn't this what causes the message of AA to be watered-down? When people who can get well by just not drinking, who don't suffer from alcoholism, teach those with alcoholism that they'll be okay if they just don't drink and go to meetings?

Because for me, an alcoholic, that's "abstinence" and untreated alcoholism, and not "sobriety". The fantasy of alcoholics is to be able to live with controlled drinking. Many die when they try that out.

Exactly. I think things get really confusing for the true alcoholic who hears that they'll be okay if they just put down the drink and not pick up again. (I wish my sobriety had been that simple....)

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you for making it more eloquently and less ambiguous than I did.

Centered3

Yes! Again thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say. :-)

In my experience, I found that I wasn't fine if I just never took the first drink. I had to do the step work to see where my thinking, actions, and reactions to life had been the problem, and I was using alcohol as the solution to that problem.

Centered3

Thanks, Redmayne. :-) I've read many of your posts, and I admit they are usually beyond deep where I'm at spiritually and I hope to one day be able to see things like you do!! How did you get to where you are in your recovery? I'd like to grow spiritually like you did.

That being said, yes, thank you for pointing this out so beautifully and clearly.

I had no idea my problem and my solution were internal and not external, until I saw it in my step work.

Who is Marcus Aurelius/where is that quote from?

Centered3

LOVE this post. It sums it up perfectly.

stevieg46

You are correct that when you say AA is not a one size fits all , but to me that is only AA ''meetings '' how can anyone identify with anyone that has nothing in common with you ? ,or put another way '' there is no common problem ''

So in many ways the 12 Steps can be utilized to Possibly be ''a one size fits all '' solution to any Spiritual Disease ,'' but only if one chooses to ''. As Bill W said ''Lets be Friends With'' OUR'' Friends '' AA s in general do not relate to other methods of recovery like AVRT ,Smart , LIFERING etc , and Vice Versa , but we can usually identify with our feelings ''which is good '' other than that if we persist in making a point even though we mean well we will always get responses that have different views to ours, so to me ? keeping it simple is sharing with like minded people, working the same common solution , take care .

Stevie recovered 12 03 2006

Centered3

I'm confused. Have I written that AA is the only way to recover? Because that's not my intention. I share my experience and I know that it was the only thing that worked for me. I have no experience trying other programs.

My point when I mention "not drinking" has to do with some AA meetings. When I was just "not drinking and going to AA meetings", I got worse, and in my experience that was "untreated alcoholism". Many alcoholics experience this. I shared my experience to help others, just like those shared theirs with me, which helped me see this in myself.

I've never once on this forum or outside this forum said that AA is the only way to recover. How could I say that if I've never had any experience with other recovery programs?

Centered3

Thanks, August!

Centered3

Thank you. That is what I was trying to convey about alcoholism.

Your post reminded me of something I heard a speaker say, "A broken mind cannot fix a broken mind". I think Einstein said something similar.

Centered3

Thank you, ZenLifter. I was having second thoughts after sharing like that, so it's nice to hear others related to it.

I recently spoke with a friend who is a spiritual teacher, and he knows a lot about Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism. He told me that when Buddhists have thoughts, instead of attaching feelings to those thoughts, they say "isn't that interesting." They have a curiosity about those thoughts.

Is that what Zen taught you? I've often wanted to learn about Zen but am concerned it'd be too deep for me to understand.

ScottFromWI

I'm not suggesting that you have said AA is the only way to recover. The point of my post is that the "dry drunk" label is sometimes used in that manner by others who do feel that AA is the only way to recover and it has been used that way in the past. That's why its controversial and considered offensive by some here on the forum, and in general.

I'd also add as s general reminder to all that discussion of recovery methods is allowed but arguments about/against ANY recovery method are not. Please keep comments within the framework of respectful conversation.

SoberCAH

[QUOTE=Centered3;6032333]I'm confused. Have I written that AA is the only way to recover? Because that's not my intention. I share my experience and I know that it was the only thing that worked for me. I have no experience trying other programs. QUOTE]

You neither said nor implied that, amigo.

Don't worry about it.

AA appears to be what your ESH involves.

It certainly is with me.

AA and God are pretty much all I have to offer from an ESH standpoint.

They are the foundations of my life and my recovery.

I can't tell someone else's story by venturing into other recovery programs.

Glad you're here.

chicory

Centered, i really appreciated your sharing!
It really helped me to understand my A son, a little better. You described him to a T, in how he drinks to deal with his anxieties, his worries, and baggage of the past.
I wish i could copy and share your post with him, as it probably the closest description of his behavior. Perhaps it's not a good idea to do that, but maybe it would help him to understand his self. But then again, it may not be my place to do that.
Thank you though, it was helpful to me, and others I'm sure!

Centered3

Hi Chicory,

I'm glad my thread helped you understand your son. :-)

I wish I knew the right thing about what to suggest regarding sharing it with him or not. Maybe it'd help him see that you understand what he's going through. Or maybe it'd make him defensive being faced with the realization that yup that's what he goes through. Or maybe it'd help him see he's not alone.

Only you can know in your heart what the right thing to do is. Search your heart for the answer.

Peace to you and your son,
~Centered

Centered3

[QUOTE=SoberCAH;6032509] Thank you so much SoberCAH

Time2Rise

I do understand that Centered, and I didn't intend to suggest you felt AA was the only way to recover. Rather, I was pointing out that not everyone (including addiction researchers and specialists) accepts AA's beliefs about the causes of alcoholism.

For example, in your original post you mentioned how your sponsor realized it was "the reaction to and her thinking about her problems that was the underlying problem of her alcoholism." However, many people do not accept that reactions and thinking are the underlying causes of a serious drinking problem.

Your intentions with this thread were obviously good, I was just pointing out that AA's presumptions about the underlying causes of alcoholism are not universally held; although, because AA and 12-Step doctrine and beliefs are so ingrained in our recovery treatment organizations and culture, it's easy to believe that is the case.

I hope that clears up things a bit.

awuh1

This is currently one of five main articles on this sites home page. There would seem to be a difference of opinion about the appropriateness for the use of this term.

Just wanted to get some clarification. Is there a double standard here?

Please don't shoot the messenger.